it's hard to talk about certain things with so many other quotes in people comments so im just breaking it down.
Quote from darktutor »
Swords vs Scions:
Scion and Swords are not that of nonbo. I used to play 4 Scions and a sword and never had troubles with it.
These are the scenarios I had to face when playing that combination of cards:
I had the sword before the Scion so I could attach it before giving Shroud
I had the Scion before the sword so I attached the sword to the Scion
I had two Scions in play, so I didn't even care about the sword (In the sense that I was not the one worried about dealing with board state)
I never drew the sword (often)
I never drew the Scions (rarely)
I never drew the Scions nor the swords (almost never)
i agree with this
The scion + sword interaction isnt that big of a problem at worst she uses as it as protection from removal
I like to use swords as one of bullet for the meta game something to give certain matchups a bit higher % i really wish i could fit all 3 in the SB for each of the different matchups but i think that's asking wayy to much
Struggling playing against BG(r) or heavy BG(r) meta or you just want add a bit higher % of matchups SoFaF
Struggling playing vs Abzan and other white black decks or heavy meta or you just want add a bit higher % of matchups SoLaS
Struggling playing vs Merfolk or other zoo decks or heavy meta or you just want add a bit higher % of matchups SoFaI
Most of the time they don't have answers for it and if you connect once it really swings the matchup and if they sb hate for a single bullet hey it's winning without even being played.
I believe Lili is a great way of dealing with games, especially those ones where we fall behind. She's a great card against Burn, Aggro, Control, Bogles, Combo and Tron. Every time you draw a card and wish it was something else, lili takes care of it by symmetrically discarding a card from both players hand, while growing in loyalty with a game winning ultimate. She also forces to change the angle of attack (not just combat phase, but the changing the lines of play) of your oppponent. She is another 'must answer' card in the deck, and she works pretty well there.
Jace Beleren works symmetrically as well with his +2, though drawin cards is something we don't want our opponents to do with our resources. Yes, in theory he will draw you 3 cards for each card your opponents draw, but more often than not it will be a 1UU 'each player draws a card' sorcery and then eat removal or get crushed by creatures. We don't play combo and we are not fast (in the sense of aggro) to close games, so I wouldn't play him. When Beleren was good in faeries Lili didn't exist, neither did Ashiok. So, a 3CMC planeswalker that drew cards was more than just good.
Ob Nixilis Reignited seems like a maybe sideboard card. It requires a lot of effort to get there, but he should be able to win you the game on his own. His synergy with lili is strong too. 5CMC is steep though.
EDIT: So much commenting made me forget about the cards I wanted to discuss:
Soul Manipulation: I don't think this card is optimal or super flexible but it's neither a bad card. It's an Essence Soul with recursion attached, you might say. But I see it as a recursion card with the possibility of getting a 2-for-1 against other decks. I counter your creature and buyback my V Clique/M Clique/ Stutter/Snapcaster/Whatever you play. I don't know if I would play it MB or sideboard. But it looks good against BGx and Zoo/aggro, where we have to chump block a lot and our creatures get killed easily.
Glen Elendra Archmage seems like a good card to fit even in MB nowadays. The 2-for-1ness of the format atn is undeniable, and is another card that can help us get there, while keeping up the Faeries count. I'd play 1/2 in the 75.
We have a lot of work to do here if we want to rise again.
I don't think any scenario outside of mana flooding would i want to discard a card from my hand for theirs especially when we run almost 0 card draw and almost no form of graveyard card advantage and once they are in our GY we almost no use for them unlike other decks. Our cards are most powerful is when they are in our hand. at least jace is CA engine he draws you a couple of cards or eats a spell or attack.
Now for Ob Nixilis Reignited for 5 mana in this format you better be amazing or just be a straight hose to certain decks bribery hell at 6 mana they can just straight win the game primeval titan
5 mana and takes 4 turns to ultimate isn't going to be modern playable
5 mana draw a couple of cards or kill 2-3 creatures isn't what we want to be doing we want them dead or dead on board at 5 mana
what deck would you even sideboard him in against?
Soul Manipulation
i don't even want essence scatter at 2cmc why i would i want it at 3cmc? i dont like 3cmc spells snice im mainly using that turn to protect BB or stopping their turn 2 play i think the deck is really strong at abusing 2cmc and 4cmc spells
1cmc = discard dispel pierce disfgure dismember cards that are use when you are on the draw when you cannot stop their turn 2 play
2cmc = BB counters and removal
3cmc = your special cards like clique/sicon that can be played EoT to gain board advantage or just useing 2cmc card and playing just a tapped land to make sure have you have 4mana up next turn
4cmc = 2cmc play + 2cmc spell or your backbreaking spell: Cryptic Command, Mistbind clique
Glen Elendra Archmage
full on amazing in the meta 1-2 in the 75 is probably mandatory
edit people posted in between when i was typing this out
Again, people are looking at Quickling wrong when they're analyzing it. Look at the card, and then remove "creature" from it's type line. Quit looking at it like a creature, and look at it like an Instant that reads: "Save target creature from Abrupt Decay."
Abrupt Decay is the single biggest enemy to this deck, and Quickling and Mistbind are two of the only things we can play that will counter it. Mistbind is too slow, but has the added benefit of saving your Bitterblossom as well. Quickling has the added benefit of letting you re-use an ETB, and also interacts in very interesting ways with Mistbind Clique itself.
Abrupt decay can only be used on BB BBtokens SSP and clique/sion
of those; 3 of them are 1/1's 1 is a token...
vendion already did her(?) job when she etb
scion is already used as a counter vs Aburt deacy and forces them to use it on her if she's already on the field to get to any other creature/bb
pretty much if they are casting it on anything but BB you should be pretty happy....
I don't think any scenario outside of mana flooding would i want to discard a card from my hand for theirs especially when we run almost 0 card draw and almost no form of graveyard card advantage and once they are in our GY we almost no use for them unlike other decks. Our cards are most powerful is when they are in our hand. at least jace is CA engine he draws you a couple of cards or eats a spell or attack.
When you draw Smother against a 3+ CMC field, when you draw a 2nd or 3rd Bitterblossom, when you draw Mistbind Clique and don't have a board (cause you're behind), when you're playing against Tron, when you draw more lands than you need, when you draw counters against a Cavern of Souls. There are plenty of moments in a game where you draw miserable cards (especially without library filtering). If you never experienced any of those situations, you're the king of variance and having a discussion about it makes no sense :P.
Now for Ob Nixilis Reignited for 5 mana in this format you better be amazing or just be a straight hose to certain decks bribery hell at 6 mana they can just straight win the game primeval titan
5 mana and takes 4 turns to ultimate isn't going to be modern playable
5 mana draw a couple of cards or kill 2-3 creatures isn't what we want to be doing we want them dead or dead on board at 5 mana
what deck would you even sideboard him in against?
I agree with most of it. Still, Keranos is a thing (a thing we can't afford to play), same was Batterskull in its time, or Ajani Vengeant, Gideon Jura. We gotta check, test, and experience what our colors provide us. Don't forget that, it could have been another Sorin Markov, but it's not. It is a decent magic card. I'm not saying I'm in love with it, just saying it might be wort trying. It can be awesome against BGx and Tron, where we struggle to get where we want. Drawing 2 cards a turn and dealing wit cards we can't with our poor removal suite once we got to late game can be more than just rewarding.
Soul Manipulation
i don't even want essence scatter at 2cmc why i would i want it at 3cmc? i dont like 3cmc spells snice im mainly using that turn to protect BB or stopping their turn 2 play i think the deck is really strong at abusing 2cmc and 4cmc spells
1cmc = discard dispel pierce disfgure dismember cards that are use when you are on the draw when you cannot stop their turn 2 play
2cmc = BB counters and removal
3cmc = your special cards like clique/sicon that can be played EoT to gain board advantage or just useing 2cmc card and playing just a tapped land to make sure have you have 4mana up next turn
4cmc = 2cmc play + 2cmc spell or your backbreaking spell: Cryptic Command, Mistbind clique
Again, I haven't said this card is gonna pull us to the top tables. I also said that it shouldn't be looked at as a counter creature spell, but as a recursion spell with the ability to become something else if needed. Please re-read if you're not clear on what I meant.
Again, people are looking at Quickling wrong when they're analyzing it. Look at the card, and then remove "creature" from it's type line. Quit looking at it like a creature, and look at it like an Instant that reads: "Save target creature from Abrupt Decay."
Abrupt Decay is the single biggest enemy to this deck, and Quickling and Mistbind are two of the only things we can play that will counter it. Mistbind is too slow, but has the added benefit of saving your Bitterblossom as well. Quickling has the added benefit of letting you re-use an ETB, and also interacts in very interesting ways with Mistbind Clique itself.
Abrupt decay can only be used on BB BBtokens SSP and clique/sion
of those; 3 of them are 1/1's 1 is a token...
vendion already did her(?) job when she etb
scion is already used as a counter vs Aburt deacy and forces them to use it on her if she's already on the field to get to any other creature/bb
pretty much if they are casting it on anything but BB you should be pretty happy....
Agree that there is not THAT much value in getting decayed. Though Bitterblossom is what hose BGx better than anything in our deck. That being said, Scion is the only thing that can save it (Mistbind Clique also, but you have to play another one, trade it in combat or a bounce spell to make that work).
In other news Complete Disregard looks like its 1 mana away from being THE REAL DEAL in the melira company matchup (for 3 it should be a strictly better murder at higher rarity...but the restriction isnt weird just weird on a 3-mana spell just makes it ike sb maybe), but are there any other situations besides protection from black and graveyard targets that we would want to test this for as is?
Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
Again, people are looking at Quickling wrong when they're analyzing it. Look at the card, and then remove "creature" from it's type line. Quit looking at it like a creature, and look at it like an Instant that reads: "Save target creature from Abrupt Decay."
Abrupt Decay is the single biggest enemy to this deck, and Quickling and Mistbind are two of the only things we can play that will counter it. Mistbind is too slow, but has the added benefit of saving your Bitterblossom as well. Quickling has the added benefit of letting you re-use an ETB, and also interacts in very interesting ways with Mistbind Clique itself.
I don't know about anyone else but I don't care if my creatures die, what I care for is the Decay hitting my Blossom or Monastery Siege. Quickling doesn't hit those.
Why am I bouncing things on turn 2? We don't have a creature turn 1.
If I wanted to hold on to an "instant flicker that is cheap" I'd run Ghostly Flicker or splash white for 1 mana options and Resto Angel.
I get why people want Quickling to work, 2 cmc flash etb dude that isn't spellstutter yay!, but without a sword/scion shell it does not work. If you build a 20 creature shell then fine, it'll probably get there but the plain old 10-15 is not enough to support Quickling.
Basically Quickling becomes the build around, not Bitterblossom.
Sadly I'm still waiting for BFZ to hit so I can start testing U/W and Esper Fae with Geists. Testing it with 4 Shocks total or just Plains doesn't work. Life loss is too much with shocks and Plains don't allow for easy Shackles.
Hopefully by Tuesday I'll have what I need.
It's just the cards i'm assuming will be decent for modern (new to the format)
Just wondering if White would be a better colour choice for path to exile and other sideboarding options
I will try to finesse both Oona's Prowler & Morsel Theft for my creature heavy deck.
Comments: On paper, both cards seem like a great idea to obtain aggressive tempo. It is not without drawback.
Oona's Prowler is a card that gives you a 3/1 flier on turn two.
Against a delve deck however, you may be giving them the edge by discarding their hand for a big turn.
My thoughts are that there isn't a large pool of Delve decks. And having them discard is only to our advantage.
I understand that it is their choice of discard.
Morsel Theft can swing life totals around to help against the life lost from a Bitterblossom.
The potential for life-gain and card draw for 2 mana is very good. Very conditional however.
Also, it will hurt mana-wise if there is no rogue on the field.
In other news Complete Disregard looks like its 1 mana away from being THE REAL DEAL in the melira company matchup (for 3 it should be a strictly better murder at higher rarity...but the restriction isnt weird just weird on a 3-mana spell just makes it ike sb maybe), but are there any other situations besides protection from black and graveyard targets that we would want to test this for as is?
Yeah i agree i feel if it was 2cmc it would 100% be in the discussion.
If you have a niche meta full of Etched champions and Voices etc... then im sure you could play it.
It's another one of those not quite good enough cards.
It's just the cards i'm assuming will be decent for modern (new to the format)
Just wondering if White would be a better colour choice for path to exile and other sideboarding options
Legacy is not Modern play for a bit and you will see why.
I will try to finesse both Oona's Prowler & Morsel Theft for my creature heavy deck.
Comments: On paper, both cards seem like a great idea to obtain aggressive tempo. It is not without drawback.
Oona's Prowler is a card that gives you a 3/1 flier on turn two.
Against a delve deck however, you may be giving them the edge by discarding their hand for a big turn.
My thoughts are that there isn't a large pool of Delve decks. And having them discard is only to our advantage.
I understand that it is their choice of discard.
Morsel Theft can swing life totals around to help against the life lost from a Bitterblossom.
The potential for life-gain and card draw for 2 mana is very good. Very conditional however.
Also, it will hurt mana-wise if there is no rogue on the field.
Any additional comments?
In a void they both seem awful need to see the rest of the deck.
I wouldn't cut anything for them.
Outside of BB tokens effect 4 mana sorcery gain 3 life draw 1 card opp lose 3 life does not excited me much. We could play Cryptic or a sword in that slot and basicly do the same thing
Faeries is rarely aggressive enough to be able to leverage the lifeloss enough. We like the cards, sure, but if you flip a couple of crypitcs/mistbinds, you'll die first. A card like think twice, read the bones, night's whisper, phyrexian arena, or something similar might do better. Unfortunately, I don't think any of those cards are quite good enough.
If we had an actual faerie that gave us card advantage/scryed, well that might be a different story.
I actually think that Perilous Research should be added onto the list.
It allows card draw at instant speed & having to sacrifice a permanent is done AFTER the fact.
Unlike the black version: Altar's Reap
Late game, having an abundance of land/tokens or needing to shut down BB for having lost too much life
is rare but useful. Interacting with enemy kill spells against our own creatures or Mutavault is a bonus.
I don't think any of those cards, excluding serum visions which is not card advantage. Night's whisper might be playable, as is phyrexian arena.
I wish faerie miscreant was just a little bit better, because a 1 drop faerie would do wonders for us, especially with spellstutter.
The way this deck generates card advantage/general advantage is through etb effects. In that regard, cards like mistbind and quickling are decent, as they allow us to potentially reuse these effects. That being said, we really do need something better.
Now, lots of interesting choices here. Notably, no manlands outside of the mutavaults. No discard in main or side. Quickling. Oona's Blackguard.
Now for the match ups
Round 1 - Elves
Game 1
Game goes pretty easy. He got mana screwed. I get a T2 BB, I counter his elvish visionary twice, he got stuck on 2 land and I only got hit by 4 (maybe 5) ticks of BB before swinging lethal. He discarded an Ugin at one point which made me consider my side options.
I didn't end up making changes for G2 as I only saw 3 cards.
Game 2
Little closer, he turns 1 a Nettle Sentinel. He beats me a couple times with it. I counter some of his small elves, he gets out Elvish Archdruid but I get out spellstutters and scion. I V-Clique away a Reclamation Sage even though I didn't have a BB yet. He swing in, I dismember the Archdruid and we get some decent trades for me. I get a Mistbind out and finally bring him down to my level. He plays 2 shaman of the pack back to back hitting me for 5 dmg. He had a kitchen finks that gained him 4 life, but the end result was me at 1 hp and him at 0, typical faeries play lol.
Round 2 - Esper control
Game 1
I didn't know what I was facing yet and he had a polluted delta in play. I guess I should have thought it through more. I try to jam out a BB and he fetched and spell snared me. I never really recovered lol. We had some draw goes after that and had some countering, but he finally landed a dragonlord ojutai with me having a couple mutavaults stopped from beating him in some more. He doesn't swing for fear of my counter-swing and just not having the hexproof anymore probably. He finally feels comfortable and swings, I pay 2 life to dismember, but he cryptics me. I block with spellstutter. I then pay 2 life again to dismember on my main phase, it dies. He proceeds to play a Baneslayer Angel and I knew I was mostly done for, I drew a few more turns, but couldn't come back. Had him to only 11.
Game 2
He opens with leyline of sanctity - great... At least he assumed I was running IoK and TS, but still annoying vs Mistbind that still has to target a player. So, we both kinda throw out lands (he got a colonade out which worried me) and at T4 I played my BB with Remand ready. He knew I was ready so let it resolve. He got stuck on 4 mana and lost after 4 more turns.
Game 3
Basically the same exact game, he even got the free leyline again. Pretty much played out exactly the same, he had 4 mana and was stuck, I had BB and scion out.
Round 3 - Goblins
Game 1
He opens with goblin guide, showed me a disfigure coming. He throws a 2nd goblin guide at me, I get 2 lands off that and kill one. He was a little short on mana, when I V-cliqued him (which he bolted as I wanted to to block) I saw he had a collected company and 3 goblin grenades. I was a little nervous, but I got a BB out, removed his creatures and didn't let him resolve another. I was at 4 life.
Game 2
My 1st hand was Ghost Quarter, mutavault, spell snare, remand, spellstutter sprite, scion of oona and Faerie Harbinger. I mull to 6 and get 4 lands and 2 cryptics. I mul to 5 and keep a glen, island, spell snare, scion, and quickling. He did not have a T1 play! So by his turn 2, I snared the goblin piledriver coming down. I land my BB. He plays another Piledriver which I later pay 2 life to dismember. I get to 3-4 mana, get out my scion and am swinging. He bolts my scion, I spellstutter it. He bolts again, I quickling the scion back. Next turn replay scion for the win. I was down to 5 life that game.
Round 4 - Esper Control
Game 1
So, this match up was hard. He starts by playing tons of lifegain lands. I get out a BB. He plays Jace, Architect of Thought which I remanded, but it still came down later really hampering the 2 BBs I got out... I got a scion out and felt good, until he board wiped again and again and again. I was able to keep Jace at 1 with a mutavault, but back and forth this game went, both my Mistbinds eating Paths. He countered a lot of stuff. Played one wall of omens, and eventually got Elpeth out. I did get rid of a 2nd BB with a Mistbind even though he killed it before it's champion trigger could resolve just to ditch it. Needless to say, between Languish, Supreme Verdict, Damnation, Aetherize, End Hostilities, I lost this game. Only git him to 13 before my own BB killed me. I did Crytpic his Jace twice back to hand, but I couldn't ever counter it later.
Game 2
Long match. I sided out all my creature removal for my sieges, archmages, cryptic and spell pierces. This game went more my favor, but took so long, time was called on us. I landed an early Siege choosing Khans as I wasn't too worried about Paths. Even with that, I was stuck on 5 mana for quite some time, with a fist of cards and pitching good ones, but still got me to a land quicker I guess. I landed Ashiok right after and he had no answer. I ticked her up to 11 and exiled his hand which I had peaked at with V-Clique and saw aetherize, elspeth (which he resolved before I could ultimate Ashiok), 2 Paths and Extirpate. I had a 2nd Siege on board with Dragons named, so his Paths were 3 cmc now. He tried to Path my scion, but I double scioned again. He got Gideon, Champion of Justice out which got a lot of counters... I didn't want that thing to -15 so I bounced it a time and smacked it a little. He got his own Ashiok out twice grabbing my archmages each time! Luckily he never got one into play. Was just a LONG game of attrition that I won into with a round to spare.
Some Thoughts
Faerie Harbinger is WAY better than I ever gave credit. Against control, it did so much work. They didn't really want to tap out to counter it on end of their turn knowing I could resolve a better card during my turn, so they let it go. I grabbed spellstutters which was just great (as I already had 1 in hand once too). I will def up to 2 in deck, it's a card that you can toss into the fire and not worry about or let it get w/e you need. Grabbed me a scion one game, just really solid card.
Monastery Siege was decent, I feel nervous playing cards not at instant speed, but it was good to have and I'll def continue in the side.
Scion of Oona - I hadn't been running these lately and I guess I'm glad I tried not using them, because I definitely felt their presence in full force with just 2, in fact I swore I ran 3, but I checked, only 2. Really great pusher of dmg and counter of killy stuffs. Will continue with 2 copies I think.
I dropped down to 2 V-Cliques and 2-Cryptics and I don't mind that at all. I had Cryptic a few times w/o 3 blue sources to cast it, or a 6th land to have a 2nd counter handy to counter their counter, so I tended to go with Remand and Spellstutter over cryptic.
I definitely liked my removal suite. 7 spells to kill early really helped me stay on tempo I gotta say.
Quickling - He's worth it imo. At least worth further testing. I didn't get blown out with him, didn't get stuck with him in hand (one game I attacked with 2 vaults, 2nd main, threw out the quickling and replayed the bounced mutavault), but it wasn't that awkward really... it even gave me a land untapped which I needed to give me 2 untapped lands. He did save a creature once. And another time I just through it out end of turn to give me a spellstutter back for later. His 2 p/t let him deal dmg through Jace's +1 ability too and he was a better blocker vs goblins and elves.
the oona's blackguard only got to my hand once all night! So, not too sure. I was ahead already when I topdecked it. Wasn't sad about it, had a BB out, played it and watched my tokens come in as 2/2s.
I liked the painless, almost always untapped lands I ran, so may keep that up. I was hit with a blood moon vs goblins, but I had an island, so wasn't hurt.
There's my type up, was fun to be back. I'm not sure if I'll make changes for next week, everything did pretty well and as intended. I think I'm fairy well prep'd for most match ups.
It's a fine land but will have to take place of your colourless land slot instead of ghost quarter or tec edge.
@Nardraug - Glad the list is working out for you.
Did you usually just sit there with the scion in hand until you had the win or did you ever HAVE to play it to stop a removal spell?
It's a fine land but will have to take place of your colourless land slot instead of ghost quarter or tec edge.
@Nardraug - Glad the list is working out for you.
Did you usually just sit there with the scion in hand until you had the win or did you ever HAVE to play it to stop a removal spell?
My focus was on getting an upper edge on the board state and maintaining that. I didn't try too often to jam something out when I was already ahead and they had open mana. If they were tapped out or I had reliable counter magic open to backup my spell, then I'd go ahead and play another something to the field. With that in mind, I played Scion in all of the potential opportunities.
I used it to counter removal.
I used it to boost my blockers p/t as a combat trick.
I used it as my sole creature on the board just to get my faerie count going for spellstutter.
My typical plan was definitely to hold them until an opportune time or if it was safe to play and I thought I could start pressing dmg (and had backup counters in hand to save scion from removal).
Also, I didn't mention, but Ghost Quarter was much better than Tec Edge for me. I used it on myself one game to get me a blue source I needed to win a triple spell stack counter battle.
And for Cavern of Souls, I was thinking of adding 1-2 of, it would turn spellstutters into gods in the counter wars. But ya, too much colorless mana hurts. I run 5 colorless sources and had to mull for only having 2 of those lands. If it worked on card types instead of creature card types, it'd be a lot better for us.
On the scion of Oona discussion I actually maindeck one and sideboard two more. There are games where it has been clutch, but not a blowout. I do however like them alongside Monastery Siege against grixis and jund though. But my question is why quickling over something that can be used to generate tempo like unsummon/vapor snag/ Rise // Fall if you already have scion? Is 14+ creatures really the spot you want to be in with no discard (I play 12 myself)?
Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
Well, I was kinda wanting some beaters that I don't care too much about, I also wanted the Rogue as I was originally sleeving up a Notorious Throng with the list and the Oona's Blackguard. So the Rogue synergy was there with the Faerie. But, I also want to just test him out for the sake of testing. Tucking one under a Mistbind seemed interesting and it upped my actual faerie count compared to a snag or unsummon would.
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i agree with this
The scion + sword interaction isnt that big of a problem at worst she uses as it as protection from removal
I like to use swords as one of bullet for the meta game something to give certain matchups a bit higher % i really wish i could fit all 3 in the SB for each of the different matchups but i think that's asking wayy to much
Struggling playing against BG(r) or heavy BG(r) meta or you just want add a bit higher % of matchups SoFaF
Struggling playing vs Abzan and other white black decks or heavy meta or you just want add a bit higher % of matchups SoLaS
Struggling playing vs Merfolk or other zoo decks or heavy meta or you just want add a bit higher % of matchups SoFaI
Most of the time they don't have answers for it and if you connect once it really swings the matchup and if they sb hate for a single bullet hey it's winning without even being played.
I don't think any scenario outside of mana flooding would i want to discard a card from my hand for theirs especially when we run almost 0 card draw and almost no form of graveyard card advantage and once they are in our GY we almost no use for them unlike other decks. Our cards are most powerful is when they are in our hand. at least jace is CA engine he draws you a couple of cards or eats a spell or attack.
Now for Ob Nixilis Reignited for 5 mana in this format you better be amazing or just be a straight hose to certain decks bribery hell at 6 mana they can just straight win the game primeval titan
5 mana and takes 4 turns to ultimate isn't going to be modern playable
5 mana draw a couple of cards or kill 2-3 creatures isn't what we want to be doing we want them dead or dead on board at 5 mana
what deck would you even sideboard him in against?
Soul Manipulation
i don't even want essence scatter at 2cmc why i would i want it at 3cmc? i dont like 3cmc spells snice im mainly using that turn to protect BB or stopping their turn 2 play i think the deck is really strong at abusing 2cmc and 4cmc spells
1cmc = discard dispel pierce disfgure dismember cards that are use when you are on the draw when you cannot stop their turn 2 play
2cmc = BB counters and removal
3cmc = your special cards like clique/sicon that can be played EoT to gain board advantage or just useing 2cmc card and playing just a tapped land to make sure have you have 4mana up next turn
4cmc = 2cmc play + 2cmc spell or your backbreaking spell: Cryptic Command, Mistbind clique
Glen Elendra Archmage
full on amazing in the meta 1-2 in the 75 is probably mandatory
edit people posted in between when i was typing this out
Abrupt decay can only be used on BB BBtokens SSP and clique/sion
of those; 3 of them are 1/1's 1 is a token...
vendion already did her(?) job when she etb
scion is already used as a counter vs Aburt deacy and forces them to use it on her if she's already on the field to get to any other creature/bb
pretty much if they are casting it on anything but BB you should be pretty happy....
quickling is just a bad scion
When you draw Smother against a 3+ CMC field, when you draw a 2nd or 3rd Bitterblossom, when you draw Mistbind Clique and don't have a board (cause you're behind), when you're playing against Tron, when you draw more lands than you need, when you draw counters against a Cavern of Souls. There are plenty of moments in a game where you draw miserable cards (especially without library filtering). If you never experienced any of those situations, you're the king of variance and having a discussion about it makes no sense :P.
I agree with most of it. Still, Keranos is a thing (a thing we can't afford to play), same was Batterskull in its time, or Ajani Vengeant, Gideon Jura. We gotta check, test, and experience what our colors provide us. Don't forget that, it could have been another Sorin Markov, but it's not. It is a decent magic card. I'm not saying I'm in love with it, just saying it might be wort trying. It can be awesome against BGx and Tron, where we struggle to get where we want. Drawing 2 cards a turn and dealing wit cards we can't with our poor removal suite once we got to late game can be more than just rewarding.
Again, I haven't said this card is gonna pull us to the top tables. I also said that it shouldn't be looked at as a counter creature spell, but as a recursion spell with the ability to become something else if needed. Please re-read if you're not clear on what I meant.
That seems to be the deal. I sold mine some months ago, on the hunt for those again.
Agree that there is not THAT much value in getting decayed. Though Bitterblossom is what hose BGx better than anything in our deck. That being said, Scion is the only thing that can save it (Mistbind Clique also, but you have to play another one, trade it in combat or a bounce spell to make that work).
I say it's a mix of Ruse and Scion. I like it but find it too cute. If it ever shows actual results showing good work, I'd play it.
Complete Disregard looks like its 1 mana away from being THE REAL DEAL in the melira company matchup (for 3 it should be a strictly better murder at higher rarity...but the restriction isnt weird just weird on a 3-mana spell just makes it ike sb maybe), but are there any other situations besides protection from black and graveyard targets that we would want to test this for as is?
Etched Champion
Kitchen Finks & Persist
Geralf's Messenger & Undying
Voice of Resurgence & "dies" triggers
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
I don't know about anyone else but I don't care if my creatures die, what I care for is the Decay hitting my Blossom or Monastery Siege. Quickling doesn't hit those.
Why am I bouncing things on turn 2? We don't have a creature turn 1.
If I wanted to hold on to an "instant flicker that is cheap" I'd run Ghostly Flicker or splash white for 1 mana options and Resto Angel.
I get why people want Quickling to work, 2 cmc flash etb dude that isn't spellstutter yay!, but without a sword/scion shell it does not work. If you build a 20 creature shell then fine, it'll probably get there but the plain old 10-15 is not enough to support Quickling.
Basically Quickling becomes the build around, not Bitterblossom.
Sadly I'm still waiting for BFZ to hit so I can start testing U/W and Esper Fae with Geists. Testing it with 4 Shocks total or just Plains doesn't work. Life loss is too much with shocks and Plains don't allow for easy Shackles.
Hopefully by Tuesday I'll have what I need.
Just copying my Legacy deck and trying to port it straight into modern pretty much lol
4 Spellstutter sprite
3 Vendilion clique
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Spell snare
3 Spell pierce
4 Terminate
4 Thoughtsieze
It's just the cards i'm assuming will be decent for modern (new to the format)
Just wondering if White would be a better colour choice for path to exile and other sideboarding options
Comments: On paper, both cards seem like a great idea to obtain aggressive tempo. It is not without drawback.
Oona's Prowler is a card that gives you a 3/1 flier on turn two.
Against a delve deck however, you may be giving them the edge by discarding their hand for a big turn.
My thoughts are that there isn't a large pool of Delve decks. And having them discard is only to our advantage.
I understand that it is their choice of discard.
Morsel Theft can swing life totals around to help against the life lost from a Bitterblossom.
The potential for life-gain and card draw for 2 mana is very good. Very conditional however.
Also, it will hurt mana-wise if there is no rogue on the field.
Any additional comments?
Yeah i agree i feel if it was 2cmc it would 100% be in the discussion.
If you have a niche meta full of Etched champions and Voices etc... then im sure you could play it.
It's another one of those not quite good enough cards.
Legacy is not Modern play for a bit and you will see why.
In a void they both seem awful need to see the rest of the deck.
I wouldn't cut anything for them.
Outside of BB tokens effect 4 mana sorcery gain 3 life draw 1 card opp lose 3 life does not excited me much. We could play Cryptic or a sword in that slot and basicly do the same thing
Play him find out???
I didn't like him when i played him most other decks running him have cut him as well
If we had an actual faerie that gave us card advantage/scryed, well that might be a different story.
That said, it is a Rogue too
Im so angry about that card on so many levels.
okay you are too deep.
serum visions
think twice
thought scour
are all way better i really beleive serum visions is good in this deck
It allows card draw at instant speed & having to sacrifice a permanent is done AFTER the fact.
Unlike the black version: Altar's Reap
Late game, having an abundance of land/tokens or needing to shut down BB for having lost too much life
is rare but useful. Interacting with enemy kill spells against our own creatures or Mutavault is a bonus.
I wish faerie miscreant was just a little bit better, because a 1 drop faerie would do wonders for us, especially with spellstutter.
The way this deck generates card advantage/general advantage is through etb effects. In that regard, cards like mistbind and quickling are decent, as they allow us to potentially reuse these effects. That being said, we really do need something better.
I went 3-0-1
Here's the list I ran:
1x Faerie Harbinger
3x Mistbind Clique
1x Oona's Blackguard
2x Quickling
2x Scion of Oona
4x Spellstutter Sprite
2x Vendilion Clique
Instant (15)
2x Cryptic Command
2x Disfigure
3x Dismember
3x Remand
2x Smother
3x Spell Snare
4x Bitterblossom
Planeswalker (1)
1x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Land (25)
4x Darkslick Shores
1x Ghost Quarter
5x Island
4x Mutavault
4x River of Tears
4x Secluded Glen
3x Swamp
1x Cryptic Command
2x Glen Elendra Archmage
2x Go for the Throat
2x Hurkyl's Recall
2x Languish
2x Monastery Siege
2x Spell Pierce
2x Spellskite
Now, lots of interesting choices here. Notably, no manlands outside of the mutavaults. No discard in main or side. Quickling. Oona's Blackguard.
Now for the match ups
Round 1 - Elves
Game 1
Game goes pretty easy. He got mana screwed. I get a T2 BB, I counter his elvish visionary twice, he got stuck on 2 land and I only got hit by 4 (maybe 5) ticks of BB before swinging lethal. He discarded an Ugin at one point which made me consider my side options.
I didn't end up making changes for G2 as I only saw 3 cards.
Game 2
Little closer, he turns 1 a Nettle Sentinel. He beats me a couple times with it. I counter some of his small elves, he gets out Elvish Archdruid but I get out spellstutters and scion. I V-Clique away a Reclamation Sage even though I didn't have a BB yet. He swing in, I dismember the Archdruid and we get some decent trades for me. I get a Mistbind out and finally bring him down to my level. He plays 2 shaman of the pack back to back hitting me for 5 dmg. He had a kitchen finks that gained him 4 life, but the end result was me at 1 hp and him at 0, typical faeries play lol.
Round 2 - Esper control
Game 1
I didn't know what I was facing yet and he had a polluted delta in play. I guess I should have thought it through more. I try to jam out a BB and he fetched and spell snared me. I never really recovered lol. We had some draw goes after that and had some countering, but he finally landed a dragonlord ojutai with me having a couple mutavaults stopped from beating him in some more. He doesn't swing for fear of my counter-swing and just not having the hexproof anymore probably. He finally feels comfortable and swings, I pay 2 life to dismember, but he cryptics me. I block with spellstutter. I then pay 2 life again to dismember on my main phase, it dies. He proceeds to play a Baneslayer Angel and I knew I was mostly done for, I drew a few more turns, but couldn't come back. Had him to only 11.
Game 2
He opens with leyline of sanctity - great... At least he assumed I was running IoK and TS, but still annoying vs Mistbind that still has to target a player. So, we both kinda throw out lands (he got a colonade out which worried me) and at T4 I played my BB with Remand ready. He knew I was ready so let it resolve. He got stuck on 4 mana and lost after 4 more turns.
Game 3
Basically the same exact game, he even got the free leyline again. Pretty much played out exactly the same, he had 4 mana and was stuck, I had BB and scion out.
Round 3 - Goblins
Game 1
He opens with goblin guide, showed me a disfigure coming. He throws a 2nd goblin guide at me, I get 2 lands off that and kill one. He was a little short on mana, when I V-cliqued him (which he bolted as I wanted to to block) I saw he had a collected company and 3 goblin grenades. I was a little nervous, but I got a BB out, removed his creatures and didn't let him resolve another. I was at 4 life.
Game 2
My 1st hand was Ghost Quarter, mutavault, spell snare, remand, spellstutter sprite, scion of oona and Faerie Harbinger. I mull to 6 and get 4 lands and 2 cryptics. I mul to 5 and keep a glen, island, spell snare, scion, and quickling. He did not have a T1 play! So by his turn 2, I snared the goblin piledriver coming down. I land my BB. He plays another Piledriver which I later pay 2 life to dismember. I get to 3-4 mana, get out my scion and am swinging. He bolts my scion, I spellstutter it. He bolts again, I quickling the scion back. Next turn replay scion for the win. I was down to 5 life that game.
Round 4 - Esper Control
Game 1
So, this match up was hard. He starts by playing tons of lifegain lands. I get out a BB. He plays Jace, Architect of Thought which I remanded, but it still came down later really hampering the 2 BBs I got out... I got a scion out and felt good, until he board wiped again and again and again. I was able to keep Jace at 1 with a mutavault, but back and forth this game went, both my Mistbinds eating Paths. He countered a lot of stuff. Played one wall of omens, and eventually got Elpeth out. I did get rid of a 2nd BB with a Mistbind even though he killed it before it's champion trigger could resolve just to ditch it. Needless to say, between Languish, Supreme Verdict, Damnation, Aetherize, End Hostilities, I lost this game. Only git him to 13 before my own BB killed me. I did Crytpic his Jace twice back to hand, but I couldn't ever counter it later.
Game 2
Long match. I sided out all my creature removal for my sieges, archmages, cryptic and spell pierces. This game went more my favor, but took so long, time was called on us. I landed an early Siege choosing Khans as I wasn't too worried about Paths. Even with that, I was stuck on 5 mana for quite some time, with a fist of cards and pitching good ones, but still got me to a land quicker I guess. I landed Ashiok right after and he had no answer. I ticked her up to 11 and exiled his hand which I had peaked at with V-Clique and saw aetherize, elspeth (which he resolved before I could ultimate Ashiok), 2 Paths and Extirpate. I had a 2nd Siege on board with Dragons named, so his Paths were 3 cmc now. He tried to Path my scion, but I double scioned again. He got Gideon, Champion of Justice out which got a lot of counters... I didn't want that thing to -15 so I bounced it a time and smacked it a little. He got his own Ashiok out twice grabbing my archmages each time! Luckily he never got one into play. Was just a LONG game of attrition that I won into with a round to spare.
Some Thoughts
Faerie Harbinger is WAY better than I ever gave credit. Against control, it did so much work. They didn't really want to tap out to counter it on end of their turn knowing I could resolve a better card during my turn, so they let it go. I grabbed spellstutters which was just great (as I already had 1 in hand once too). I will def up to 2 in deck, it's a card that you can toss into the fire and not worry about or let it get w/e you need. Grabbed me a scion one game, just really solid card.
Monastery Siege was decent, I feel nervous playing cards not at instant speed, but it was good to have and I'll def continue in the side.
Scion of Oona - I hadn't been running these lately and I guess I'm glad I tried not using them, because I definitely felt their presence in full force with just 2, in fact I swore I ran 3, but I checked, only 2. Really great pusher of dmg and counter of killy stuffs. Will continue with 2 copies I think.
I dropped down to 2 V-Cliques and 2-Cryptics and I don't mind that at all. I had Cryptic a few times w/o 3 blue sources to cast it, or a 6th land to have a 2nd counter handy to counter their counter, so I tended to go with Remand and Spellstutter over cryptic.
I definitely liked my removal suite. 7 spells to kill early really helped me stay on tempo I gotta say.
Quickling - He's worth it imo. At least worth further testing. I didn't get blown out with him, didn't get stuck with him in hand (one game I attacked with 2 vaults, 2nd main, threw out the quickling and replayed the bounced mutavault), but it wasn't that awkward really... it even gave me a land untapped which I needed to give me 2 untapped lands. He did save a creature once. And another time I just through it out end of turn to give me a spellstutter back for later. His 2 p/t let him deal dmg through Jace's +1 ability too and he was a better blocker vs goblins and elves.
the oona's blackguard only got to my hand once all night! So, not too sure. I was ahead already when I topdecked it. Wasn't sad about it, had a BB out, played it and watched my tokens come in as 2/2s.
I liked the painless, almost always untapped lands I ran, so may keep that up. I was hit with a blood moon vs goblins, but I had an island, so wasn't hurt.
There's my type up, was fun to be back. I'm not sure if I'll make changes for next week, everything did pretty well and as intended. I think I'm fairy well prep'd for most match ups.
Questions or feedback welcome...
@Nardraug - Glad the list is working out for you.
Did you usually just sit there with the scion in hand until you had the win or did you ever HAVE to play it to stop a removal spell?
@Nardraug - Glad the list is working out for you.
Did you usually just sit there with the scion in hand until you had the win or did you ever HAVE to play it to stop a removal spell?
I used it to counter removal.
I used it to boost my blockers p/t as a combat trick.
I used it as my sole creature on the board just to get my faerie count going for spellstutter.
My typical plan was definitely to hold them until an opportune time or if it was safe to play and I thought I could start pressing dmg (and had backup counters in hand to save scion from removal).
Also, I didn't mention, but Ghost Quarter was much better than Tec Edge for me. I used it on myself one game to get me a blue source I needed to win a triple spell stack counter battle.
And for Cavern of Souls, I was thinking of adding 1-2 of, it would turn spellstutters into gods in the counter wars. But ya, too much colorless mana hurts. I run 5 colorless sources and had to mull for only having 2 of those lands. If it worked on card types instead of creature card types, it'd be a lot better for us.
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control