I know that I'm extremely late to the party, but I finally ordered my playset of dark confidant a few days ago, can't wait to start using them! I couldn't resist picking up a foil set for $200, considering where they were not too long ago
How the new spoiled red card "harsh mentor" fits the mardu archetypes?
I don't think it has a place in mardu (at least at first glance), but I could see it being tested in a death and taxes/hatebear deck. The other question at that point is what else does red offer to support a strategy like that though...
"I'm not referring to my meta, mtgtop8 has Eldrazi at 11% right now, I typically use them."
You were talking about two different things to make an assertion - your meta vs the metashare. I'm well aware you were using the 11% figure from mtgtop8.
"Let's take a look at the Eldrazi matchup. "
Not sure why you are comparing Grixis vs Mardu here. My only point was running 2 Path in the main doesn't automatically make your Mardu variant way favored compared to a Grixis one. Again, I'm skeptical a turn 4 threat (that's being conservative) 3/4 can handle a deck with 4 thought-knot seer for removal disruption, 4 reality smasher, 3 drowner of hope for tapping your creatures down, 4 displacer to make their creatures unblockable, 4 matter reshaper to blank spot removal, etc. I guess I'll just have to see the deck play out won't I?
"As far as Stub goes, It's just not worth playing over any discard spell."
You are comparing two mutually independent slots. We've been over this.
" I still feel the burn matchup is terrible for grixis,"
Yes I clearly stated this. My argument was Mardu isn't much better (if at all). IF you run 4 helix, yeah I'm sure you'll win the match-up consistently. But why in the world would you play 4 helix in any reasonable meta when you already run efficient removals that overlap with linear strategies requiring totally different answer from Burn?
The problem with Mardu is it closes the game out more slowly than Grixis does.
" As far as Force of Will, that's a necessary evil in legacy, and it does get cut in a lot of matchups, but it's still used. Reanimator is different though I'm not sure what you're getting at there."
You constructed an argument comparing card advantage and card quality, and I was just illustrating that this is not relevant at all. Legacy has a ton of cards that use 'card disadvantage' cards like Entomb, Dark Ritual, and Force of Will but obviously, the quality of these cards in the right situation outweigh the disadvantage.
" It's not the perfect card yes. Having more cards is typically better yes"
Okay as long as we have settled on this.
In regards to the deck you posted on Reddit, I kind of feel like you get yourself stuck in limbo a bit. Sometimes I would draw an aggressive hand, seem to be doing okay, then my cards I'd draw would just be paths, and thoughtseizes, and what not, which aren't necessarily good against another aggressive deck. And then sometimes I'd get a grindy hand, and then start topdecking goblin guides that just bounce off creatures. It really felt like it wasn't agressive enough, yes there were times where you can close out a game quickly, but it seemed like just as much you'd start to grind with them at 8 life, which is plenty for most decks to turn the corner with. Then there is the 12 cantrips. I don't like Bauble in this deck, without Goyf and Traverse, the artifact seems unnecessary. I feel like you'd rather just have that be another card in your hand. Also angler was a little odd to cast. Just listing off some things about the deck I find, I'm going to work with it because I like the direction. And hold on I have to respond to your post here but I just had 1 minute.
I know that I'm extremely late to the party, but I finally ordered my playset of dark confidant a few days ago, can't wait to start using them! I couldn't resist picking up a foil set for $200, considering where they were not too long ago
Been playing my Eidolon build more. After the 4-0 this past Saturday, I played an event yesterday to another 4-0, 8-1 in games. I'm not going to say the deck is unbeatable or anything but it's testing pretty well for me.
Just got the rest of my Brutalities in the mail, so it's time to try them out over Pack Rat, and probably 1 Bedlam Reveler.
They were from MM, and the crazy thing was at the time, the difference between foil and non foil was $5. Now the cheapest is somewhere around $60, and the Ravnica ones are roughly $125.
In regards to the deck you posted on Reddit, I kind of feel like you get yourself stuck in limbo a bit. Sometimes I would draw an aggressive hand, seem to be doing okay, then my cards I'd draw would just be paths, and thoughtseizes, and what not, which aren't necessarily good against another aggressive deck. And then sometimes I'd get a grindy hand, and then start topdecking goblin guides that just bounce off creatures. It really felt like it wasn't agressive enough, yes there were times where you can close out a game quickly, but it seemed like just as much you'd start to grind with them at 8 life, which is plenty for most decks to turn the corner with. Then there is the 12 cantrips. I don't like Bauble in this deck, without Goyf and Traverse, the artifact seems unnecessary. I feel like you'd rather just have that be another card in your hand. Also angler was a little odd to cast. Just listing off some things about the deck I find, I'm going to work with it because I like the direction. And hold on I have to respond to your post here but I just had 1 minute.
I have mixed feelings about the goblin guides and it could be replaced by something else.
This deck isn't designed to beat other decks in card quality like Jund Shadow or Grixis Shadow. So of course, cards like Swiftspear and Goblin Guides won't always be the best top decks. The purpose of playing these cards is to gain early tempo advantage and at the very least, force the opponent to use their removals. Goblin Guide pseudo-ramping the opponent isn't ideal and I wish there was a different card, but at the end of the day, it's a 2/2 with haste that can be recurred with Orzhov Charm.
I've heard some people say they don't like Bauble. However, I don't see why. Yes you don't get to combo off with Delirum but you trigger prowess for Swiftspear. Playing fetch + street wraith gives you the option of whether or not you want to keep the card on top: if you do, you street wraith and if you don't, you fetch. Also a lot of people forget Bauble was a card in Death Shadow Zoo and they didn't exactly utilize any Delirium mechanic. Again, I don't think it's a logical and consistent argument.
I never had trouble casting Angler. I mean the deck cantrips faster than the Grixis counterpart (unless they draw into Thought Scour). I originally had 2 Angler but it was so easy to cast by turn 3 that I added another.
" then my cards I'd draw would just be paths, and thoughtseizes, and what not, which aren't necessarily good against another aggressive deck. "
Yes but this is not a problem restricted to this Mardu variant, it's generally a problem with all reactive based decks in Modern. This is why UXX control decks don't exist anymore: you draw counterspells against Burn and removals against combo decks and there are no good card manipulation to limit this. At the very least, Bxx midrange decks have discard spells as universal proactive answers.
Perhaps I'm greedy but I would have liked the P/T reversed on this one to insulate from bolt and have some type of evasion. Menace or Trample maybe? I don't think pitching a card for this is a big deal, we can toss a lingering souls, Emmy or a redundant discard effect. Late game it's a bad topdeck If we're hellbent, but we should almost always be sandbagging a land at that point. I read that wrong, I thought the discard was an additional cost, This is much better when we're hellbent.
I'll still probably pickup a set and give it a try.
Perhaps I'm greedy but I would have liked the P/T reversed on this one to insulate from bolt and have some type of evasion. Menace or Trample maybe? I don't think pitching a card for this is a big deal, we can toss a lingering souls, Emmy or a redundant discard effect. Late game it's a bad topdeck If we're hellbent, but we should almost always be sandbagging a land at that point. I read that wrong, I thought the discard was an additional cost, This is much better when we're hellbent.
I'll still probably pickup a set and give it a try.
It probably wouldn't be worth it even if it was 3/4. Going down a card is a big weakness. I mean pitching a Lingering Souls is the best case scenario, and that's assuming (a) this card outweighs the benefit of 2 extra tokens and (b) that you have souls in hand.
At best we can play this as a 1-2 copies for late game use but as an early card, it's not good enough to make the cut.
This card seems reasonable if we play a Mardu version that have great sinergy with the graveyard. The problem is that most decks have grave hate within the 75 card list.
Played the Eidolon build again. Bedlam Reveler performed well, but drawing multiples really hurts, the card is quite slow to come down. 2 of might be perfect, but I could consider a 1 of too.
Went to a more disappointing 3-2 tonight, but I also had some pretty bad mulligans. Against Affinity in R1 I managed to 2-0 them, R/W Nahiri in R2 I lost. G1 I went to 5 cards and G2 to 4... followed by the opponent opening on Gemstone Caverns and Leyline of Sanctity in G2. It was pretty ugly, but I felt really unfavored regardless of the mulligans. In R3 I played against Eldrazi Tron. G1 I kept a bad 6, should have gone to 5 but I was sick of mulligans after R2 and didn't. G2 I won, G3 was a long drawn out game, but I just couldn't get through a Batterskull that the opponent kept bouncing and replaying, I must have killed the germ 12 times in that game, plus the opponent gaining 7 cards from Sea Gate Oracle... things just didn't line up well. Worth noting, my opponent had natural Tron in all 3 games. R4 I played against Storm and won 2-0 on the back of Eidolon. R5 was against BUG Shadow, and just like before my build seems hugely favored against BUG. Had quite a few sweet plays in this game. The best was when my opponent cleared my board and I was at 17, I took 3 from a Goyf down to 14. Some Mana Confluence and fetches later and I was at 9. Played two DS followed by Bushwhacker (and Confluence to 8), and swung for 14 of my own after having a totally empty board.
There's still some tuning to do, but the strategy works well. I'm currently 11-3 with the deck against a pretty wide range of things.
Tried a list without Vehicles in it and running stronger combat creatures instead. I think it worked pretty well, ended up going 2-1 in rounds. I haven't had any problems running Ash Zealot yet and Strike Leader again came up crucial in winning a match.
I don't have Brimaz or Garrison or I'd run them. Ash Zealot and Crackling Doom are due to decks I play against frequently here. I needed another land for FNM and the first card I pulled from my box was Aether Hub. Plan for the deck is replace it with Hanweir Battlements and add a Garrison to the deck, I'll test Brimaz and see how he does compared to Strike Leader
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Collecting Timbermare, hit me up if you have any for trade
The strategy is pretty simple, using your Pox and Boom/Bust to destroy lands and cast your threats. We can fill our graveyard with souls and bloodghast, while searching for answers to opposing threats with looting or discarding it because of pox. Later we can tax the other player with Magus or cast the Bedlam reveler.
The deck is great in a lot of matchups. The only problematic matchups are toolbox decks that can abuse of "mana rocks" or the completely avoid lands with aether vial. I hope to bring more details of matchups of my local store.
Any feedbacks are highly appreciated.
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I don't think it has a place in mardu (at least at first glance), but I could see it being tested in a death and taxes/hatebear deck. The other question at that point is what else does red offer to support a strategy like that though...
You were talking about two different things to make an assertion - your meta vs the metashare. I'm well aware you were using the 11% figure from mtgtop8.
"Let's take a look at the Eldrazi matchup. "
Not sure why you are comparing Grixis vs Mardu here. My only point was running 2 Path in the main doesn't automatically make your Mardu variant way favored compared to a Grixis one. Again, I'm skeptical a turn 4 threat (that's being conservative) 3/4 can handle a deck with 4 thought-knot seer for removal disruption, 4 reality smasher, 3 drowner of hope for tapping your creatures down, 4 displacer to make their creatures unblockable, 4 matter reshaper to blank spot removal, etc. I guess I'll just have to see the deck play out won't I?
"As far as Stub goes, It's just not worth playing over any discard spell."
You are comparing two mutually independent slots. We've been over this.
" I still feel the burn matchup is terrible for grixis,"
Yes I clearly stated this. My argument was Mardu isn't much better (if at all). IF you run 4 helix, yeah I'm sure you'll win the match-up consistently. But why in the world would you play 4 helix in any reasonable meta when you already run efficient removals that overlap with linear strategies requiring totally different answer from Burn?
The problem with Mardu is it closes the game out more slowly than Grixis does.
" As far as Force of Will, that's a necessary evil in legacy, and it does get cut in a lot of matchups, but it's still used. Reanimator is different though I'm not sure what you're getting at there."
You constructed an argument comparing card advantage and card quality, and I was just illustrating that this is not relevant at all. Legacy has a ton of cards that use 'card disadvantage' cards like Entomb, Dark Ritual, and Force of Will but obviously, the quality of these cards in the right situation outweigh the disadvantage.
" It's not the perfect card yes. Having more cards is typically better yes"
Okay as long as we have settled on this.
Ravnica or MM?
Just got the rest of my Brutalities in the mail, so it's time to try them out over Pack Rat, and probably 1 Bedlam Reveler.
I have mixed feelings about the goblin guides and it could be replaced by something else.
This deck isn't designed to beat other decks in card quality like Jund Shadow or Grixis Shadow. So of course, cards like Swiftspear and Goblin Guides won't always be the best top decks. The purpose of playing these cards is to gain early tempo advantage and at the very least, force the opponent to use their removals. Goblin Guide pseudo-ramping the opponent isn't ideal and I wish there was a different card, but at the end of the day, it's a 2/2 with haste that can be recurred with Orzhov Charm.
I've heard some people say they don't like Bauble. However, I don't see why. Yes you don't get to combo off with Delirum but you trigger prowess for Swiftspear. Playing fetch + street wraith gives you the option of whether or not you want to keep the card on top: if you do, you street wraith and if you don't, you fetch. Also a lot of people forget Bauble was a card in Death Shadow Zoo and they didn't exactly utilize any Delirium mechanic. Again, I don't think it's a logical and consistent argument.
I never had trouble casting Angler. I mean the deck cantrips faster than the Grixis counterpart (unless they draw into Thought Scour). I originally had 2 Angler but it was so easy to cast by turn 3 that I added another.
" then my cards I'd draw would just be paths, and thoughtseizes, and what not, which aren't necessarily good against another aggressive deck. "
Yes but this is not a problem restricted to this Mardu variant, it's generally a problem with all reactive based decks in Modern. This is why UXX control decks don't exist anymore: you draw counterspells against Burn and removals against combo decks and there are no good card manipulation to limit this. At the very least, Bxx midrange decks have discard spells as universal proactive answers.
Bloodfury Militant
1R
Creature -- Minotaur Warrior
When Bloodfury Militant enters the battlefield, discard a card.
4/3
What do you guys think about this as a mardu beater?
Turns Bolt/Push into a 2 for 1. It's not good.
Late game it's a bad topdeck If we're hellbent, but we should almost always be sandbagging a land at that point.I read that wrong, I thought the discard was an additional cost, This is much better when we're hellbent.I'll still probably pickup a set and give it a try.
It probably wouldn't be worth it even if it was 3/4. Going down a card is a big weakness. I mean pitching a Lingering Souls is the best case scenario, and that's assuming (a) this card outweighs the benefit of 2 extra tokens and (b) that you have souls in hand.
At best we can play this as a 1-2 copies for late game use but as an early card, it's not good enough to make the cut.
It's a good card but perhaps not explosive enough
Went to a more disappointing 3-2 tonight, but I also had some pretty bad mulligans. Against Affinity in R1 I managed to 2-0 them, R/W Nahiri in R2 I lost. G1 I went to 5 cards and G2 to 4... followed by the opponent opening on Gemstone Caverns and Leyline of Sanctity in G2. It was pretty ugly, but I felt really unfavored regardless of the mulligans. In R3 I played against Eldrazi Tron. G1 I kept a bad 6, should have gone to 5 but I was sick of mulligans after R2 and didn't. G2 I won, G3 was a long drawn out game, but I just couldn't get through a Batterskull that the opponent kept bouncing and replaying, I must have killed the germ 12 times in that game, plus the opponent gaining 7 cards from Sea Gate Oracle... things just didn't line up well. Worth noting, my opponent had natural Tron in all 3 games. R4 I played against Storm and won 2-0 on the back of Eidolon. R5 was against BUG Shadow, and just like before my build seems hugely favored against BUG. Had quite a few sweet plays in this game. The best was when my opponent cleared my board and I was at 17, I took 3 from a Goyf down to 14. Some Mana Confluence and fetches later and I was at 9. Played two DS followed by Bushwhacker (and Confluence to 8), and swung for 14 of my own after having a totally empty board.
There's still some tuning to do, but the strategy works well. I'm currently 11-3 with the deck against a pretty wide range of things.
2 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Godless Shrine
1 Blood Crypt
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Inspiring Vantage
1 Concealed Courtyard
3 Shambling Vent
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Aether Hub
4 Ash Zealot
4 Mardu Strike Leader
4 Butcher of the Horde
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Path to Exile
1 Fatal Push
2 Bitterblossom
1 Terminate
1 Lightning Helix
4 Lingering Souls
1 Crackling Doom
2 Nahiri, the Harbinger
You can also do better than Ash Zealot (non-bo with Lingering Souls) with either Asylum Visitor (3-power and potential card draw) or Young Pyromancer (more tokens) or even something like Gifted Aetherborn (deathtouch+lifelink seem better than haste+first strike).
I'd rather play more Path to Exile/Fatal Push (or Terminate) than Crackling Doom (not worth the 3 mana imho).
Also, what is Aether Hub for ?
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Arid Mesa
2 Bedlam Reveler
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Blood Crypt
3 Bloodghast
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Boom // Bust
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Faithless Looting
3 Fatal Push
3 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Godless Shrine
1 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lingering Souls
2 Magus of the Tabernacle
3 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Smallpox
1 Swamp
3 Terminate
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Wall of Omens
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Anguished Unmaking
2 Crackling Doom
2 Hallowed Moonlight
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Stony Silence
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Wear // Tear
1 Wrath of God
The strategy is pretty simple, using your Pox and Boom/Bust to destroy lands and cast your threats. We can fill our graveyard with souls and bloodghast, while searching for answers to opposing threats with looting or discarding it because of pox. Later we can tax the other player with Magus or cast the Bedlam reveler.
The deck is great in a lot of matchups. The only problematic matchups are toolbox decks that can abuse of "mana rocks" or the completely avoid lands with aether vial. I hope to bring more details of matchups of my local store.
Any feedbacks are highly appreciated.