@redsummers: murderous cut really matters. But I think that a combination of 2 push, 2 terminate, 1 murderous cut is safer.
I love arena but rather prefer even more board presence turn 3. Lili's and lingering are better IMHO.
@Aazadan: boom + expertise seems to be nice but you will have nothing in the battlefield, won't you?
I'm trying goblin Dark-Dwellers instead. With LDs , pox and Magus of the Tabernacle I expect to punish the opponent even more until I safely cast Dark-Dwellers.
The deck is fair and good but it have a hard time beating decks with mana rocks and toolbox.
@All: What I will try now is to use some combination of bloodghast and lingering souls, trying to maximize the probability of discard a recurrent creature/spell while punishing the opponent.
Also, I will try some heavy beater such as Butcher.
Had a chance to try out a couple more ideas for my Eidolon build, and flesh the manabase out. I've got around 56-57 cards locked in. The remainder is on a 3-4 of 3 drop.
Bushwhacker has an excellent interaction and curve with Lingering Souls, and it also plays very well with Shadow. But, it plays poorly with Liliana and Pack Rat. Liliana because she makes it hard to sandbag cards for a big turn, and Pack Rat because you can't activate and then Surge.
Berserker simply stacks well with Eidolon, and with Bolts decline and Push's rise it's a little bit harder to kill. Berserker is a strong anti combo/control card too, though it's a little weaker against decks that have a lot of creatures.
@Aazadan : Why not Orzohv Charm? It does everything your deck needs.
Mana efficiency. I don't think it's good enough with only Death's Shadow as a target for reanimation.
I started with it, but ended up cutting it. Why pay 2 mana when I can instead pay 1? Also, as an outside consideration, I didn't want more white mana early. The deck is very heavily pushed towards red due to Eidolon, so having another 2 drop that requires both of your other colors can be problematic.
Along the same lines, there's probably an argument to remove the Plains from the manabase.
I think the reasoning behind no path is that you don't want to hand your opponent more land as the control deck. Letting the opponent draw into them naturally blanks a few draw steps and being that we can easily run fatal push and or terminate in its place we dont lose out on much.
I've found Collective Brutality to be excellent in a nahiri build, all modes are relevant, and being able to throw away that emrakul that inevitably gets stuck in your hand for value feels pretty good. Pitching the first half of lingering souls, or an extra land for a second effect is fine too. CB is almost never dead as a removal spell, but in the rare times it is, drain for 2 and duress are very viable alternatives.
I agree with you about the life gain, and the abundance of discard (7+2CB+4Lili) and would shave an Inquisition and a Thoughtseize for two helix. The burn spells give you that extra reach, and the lifegain is useful to buy another draw step. Midgame I would rather see a Helix as a topdeck than another discard spell.
I like Shauns list, but im still not sold on the Wall of Omens and I'm maybe too chicken to run Bob. So I'm holding out hope for a powerful 2 drop for this deck, maybe we'll get a RW/RB/WB Vizier that's good for us in this set?
I'm going to be cutting Emrakul from my list because of performance issues. My current list runs 2 Nahiri and 2 Ajani, Removing Emrakul gives me 3 open slots, should I remove a Nahiri or Ajani to make a 4th slot for a set of Tidehollow Sculler?
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Collecting Timbermare, hit me up if you have any for trade
Playing my heavy red version with Eidolon/Shadow at an event tomorrow, hopefully I can get some data on it then. It's worked well enough in testing so far.
I'm going to be cutting Emrakul from my list because of performance issues. My current list runs 2 Nahiri and 2 Ajani, Removing Emrakul gives me 3 open slots, should I remove a Nahiri or Ajani to make a 4th slot for a set of Tidehollow Sculler?
Tidehollow is not well positioned right now in my opinion. Too many removals and discards on the field. You probably waste your turn 2 IMO.
Not sure if this is the right place for this, but I guess it falls into this category.
Okay guys, here's the list I ended up bringing to fnm, happy with it went 4-1 and I think that's pretty solid. Sideboard is kind of weird, didn't have all the cards I wanted, but it served its purpose.
Land (18)
4x Arid Mesa
2x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Godless Shrine
3x Marsh Flats
1x Mountain
2x Sacred Foundry
1x Swamp
Creature (12)
4x Bedlam Reveler
4x Death's Shadow
4x Street Wraith
Instant (14)
2x Kolaghan's Command
3x Lightning Bolt
4x Manamorphose
2x Path to Exile
3x Terminate
Sorcery (16)
2x Collective Brutality
4x Faithless Looting
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
4x Thoughtseize
Sideboard (15)
2x Anger of the Gods
2x Crumble to Dust
2x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Lost Legacy
1x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Painful Truths
3x Stony Silence
2x Wear and Tear
Game 1 Vs. Elves
Thoughtseized his CoCo and then bolted his Archdruid and Ezuri. Never drew Reveler or Shadow, but a single lingering souls brought me the distance. Matchup felt pretty good. Boarded in 2 Grafdiggers and 2 Angers. Turn 1 Inquisitioned his Chord. Turn 3 I angered his board and he just couldn't come back from it, he had me dead on board but that deck just gets blown out by Anger.
1-0 Game 2 Vs. Ad Nauseum
Brought in a Lost Legacy for any combo matchup, real happy I did. Game 1 I had a good draw, Inquisition and brutality turns 1 and 2 into 2 shadows turn 3. Really hard to beat that no matter what deck you're playing tbh. Game 2 was kind of funny, but I don't chalk it up to a good win, idk. Turn 4 I'm pretty sure he's about to go off. I have 3 lands, I cast Lost Legacy, he pacts of negation, then I played a 4th land and thoughtseized his Angel's Grace. He lost on upkeep.
2-0 Game 3 Vs. Jund
Honestly a really boring and long matchup. Game 1 we are just 1 for oneing, until I play a Souls. Souls is really good against Jund it seems. Literally just Souls alone carried me to the finish line, because you really can't 1 for 1 souls, and he never drew pulse, card is really good. I boarded in 2 painful truths and a wear//tear that could be discarded if it needed to. Game 2 he had that Jund draw where they thoughtseize your hard removal, then play goyf, then play Liliana and you can't win. Goyf is a real good card and can end games quickly, especially with a Grim Flayer follow up. I just couldn't establish anything, didn't draw well at all it seemed. Game 3 is where Reveler really did some work. This time I'm on the play, he has the answers but I had the threats, I drew some souls he drew a Jund Charm, I killed his Goyf, he killed my Shadow. But then I hit Bedlam Reveler. Board State wasn't great, I had 1 Souls Token, he had a Lili at 3. Played Reveler into drawing another reveler, and a souls and a land. Played Souls, attack Lili down to 2, pass turn. He topdecks pulse, pulses my souls, -2 Lili. But now I have another Reveler in hand. Played Reveler and drew another Revler. That carried me to a win. I really really like the card when you're in a grindy matchup, that really won me the game there, topdecking a reveler feels amazing.
3-0 Game 4 Vs. GB Tron
Matchup doesn't feel unwinnable, but turn 3 natural Tron into Karn on the play is really hard to beat. My hand wasn't great, but it didn't get any better with a Karn out. Never got anything going game 1. Brought in the Stony Silence and crumble to dust. Starting hand was a 1 lander with looting and 2 silences and some other not great stuff cause my deck really doesn't match up well against Tron. Missed on the looting, and I didn't hit my second land until turn 4, what do you do. I think I want to try that matchup a bit more, it really doesn't seem unwinnable at all, I think if I can get a good aggressive hand I can deal with it.
3-1 Game 5 Vs Bant eldrazi
Death's Shadow is a great card against Eldrazi. If you take away their Path, there's nothing they can do. Had a really dirty feeling draw. Opponent kept a pretty heavy hand, 2 Nobles, a thought knot and another fatty, and a stirrings. I know this cause I Inquisitioned the first Noble away, and then turn 2 I Collective Brutality to kill his second noble and take his Stirrings. Death's Shadow the next turn ended it quick. A big advantage to this deck it seems, is you don't run out your reveler until you had to. No one boarded in Graveyard hate against me, which was really, really convenient I would have to say. At least none that I saw. Didn't know what to board, didn't really have to much it seems. Game 2 got pretty grindy. All I want to say, is that Displacer is a card that has to get killed. Souls Tokens kind of held off his guys, and his drowner tapped down my guys until it ate a terminate. Then I drew a Reveler, and he carried me to the promised land. The really great thing about Reveler and Faithless looting in the Graveyard is that you get 3/5 cards. That's really good selection. Played Reveler, drew path Wraith, land, flashbacked Looting, drew terminate land, discarded 2 land. Next turn drew Souls, then cycled into a bolt. That carried me to the end.
All in all really happy with the deck. Not sure if I can have a good Tron matchup, better than Jund maybe but not good. Also didn't play burn, thankfully. Deck really felt good, I'm happy I made it and if anyone has any other questions about it I'd gladly answer them. In conclusion I just want to say I feel like Reveler has some real untapped potential. He's not an aggro card. He's the Grindiest ******* card imaginable. I see people playing him in UR decks, makes no sense with counterspells. I see people play him in Burn decks, makes no sense you just want more burn spells. I think the deck he wants, is a grindy, tappout style deck, where you are 1 for 1, until you come out on top. Empty your hand and empty theres, and then if you topdeck a Reveler, it's some great value. Really really solid deck I believe, and again, if anyone has some constructive criticism, or suggestions I'd be really happy to hear it.
Played 4 rounds, went 4-0 in rounds for a solid first place, and 8-2 in games. I know it's just an FNM and a small one at that but I don't play on MTGO or go to large events so it's the best feedback I can get.
Round 1 was against Death's Shadow. I 2-0 this pretty easily. This deck absolutely crushes the mirror. Sword of Feast and Famine was especially funny.
Round 2 was against Grishoalbrand. I 2-1 off of losing game 1. It was real close, I had my opponent down to just a couple points of life, but I couldn't close it out (they also gained 50 life this game). Won the other two though just by hitting them really hard. One with Pack Rat.
Round 3 was against Swans. This was also a 2-1. The loss was due to not drawing enough removal spells.
Round 4 was against Tron. Thoughtseize wrecked them.
The sideboard was great. Used basically everything. The card that least pulled its weight was Pack Rat, I'm thinking it might be better off as 2 more lands and a Collected Brutality. Sideboard swords were especially good, I came across the idea for Faeries actually with a Brutality heavy deck and tried to apply it here with all the discard and it worked well. Swords are real strong when you can pitch them if they're clunky and use them when they aren't.
Favorite play of the night was against an opponent at 17. I'm at 13 with a Mana Confluence and 2 uncracked fetches on the board and another land. I draw, fetch/shock to 7, confluence to 6. Double Death's Shadow and Bushwhacker. Hit for 18 hasted. Opponent had no blockers.
Good feedback from both of you.
I know that's seems pretty crazy but anyone had tried Zurgo?
A 7/2 semi-indestructible creature with haste can close the game real fast.
As 5 drop can be pretty uncastable but I suppose that for grind games can be a house.
Good feedback from both of you.
I know that's seems pretty crazy but anyone had tried Zurgo?
A 7/2 semi-indestructible creature with haste can close the game real fast.
As 5 drop can be pretty uncastable but I suppose that for grind games can be a house.
I hadn't considered it. I did consider Stormbreath Dragon for my SB, but decided I didn't want to rely on 5 drops.
I also considered playing around with a Mardu Death Shadow deck. Some things to keep in mind:
(1) It's important this deck doesn't become a bad burn deck. Playing Eidolon is only good if you can guarantee your opponent has a lower life total than you do (which is typical for a burn deck, but not for a typical shadow deck). It's nice you can manipulate your life total more easily with eidolon but you are also at a much bigger risk of killing yourself. Playing Eidolon can lock you from playing your cheap spells in the late game because you're probably going to be at a lower life total than your opponent without getting in damage with Death Shadow.
Being double red is not really a big issue because Death shadow decks fetch shocklands all the time. May have to cut some basics however.
Not saying you can't play Eidolon, but the deck must be constructed to deal a lot of damage in the first few turns for Eidolon to not backfire.
(2) Pretty much any BWx variant of death shadow should be using 2-3 Orzhov Charm. It is too flexible of a card not to play, having played it in an Esper Death Shadow build.
Red offers a lot of good 1-drops that synergize with Orzhov Charm: monastery swiftspear, goblin guide, vexing devil, etc. A lot of these creatures have haste so you can even bring them back the turn you top deck orzhov charm and attack.
(3) Pack Rat is way too slow for a deck like this. This deck wants to be explosive as possible.
(5) If playing Mardu, Orzhov Charm and Path to Exile are a must. In order to avoid becoming a bad Jund/ Grixis Death Shadow deck, we probably don't want to lean too much towards the midrange game. We want to be better in the early game.
Swiftspear demands you play a ton of noncreature spells. Eidolon requires the deck to deal a lot of damage in the early game, so it doesn't utterly criplle us. The delve creatures + Bedlam reveler are also worth considering, though they also have deck constraints. I think most prowess cards are just better served in a Jeskai shell.
(6) Biggest flaw of the deck is that it lacks efficient cantrips and searchers, so this puts inherent limitation on how central Death Shadow is. Whatever Mardu build we come up with, Death Shadow cannot play as big of a role as in Esper/ Grixis/ Jund builds.
I also considered playing around with a Mardu Death Shadow deck. Some things to keep in mind:
(1) It's important this deck doesn't become a bad burn deck. Playing Eidolon is only good if you can guarantee your opponent has a lower life total than you do (which is typical for a burn deck, but not for a typical shadow deck). It's nice you can manipulate your life total more easily with eidolon but you are also at a much bigger risk of killing yourself. Playing Eidolon can lock you from playing your cheap spells in the late game because you're probably going to be at a lower life total than your opponent without getting in damage with Death Shadow.
Being double red is not really a big issue because Death shadow decks fetch shocklands all the time. May have to cut some basics however.
Not saying you can't play Eidolon, but the deck must be constructed to deal a lot of damage in the first few turns for Eidolon to not backfire.
(2) Pretty much any BWx variant of death shadow should be using 2-3 Orzhov Charm. It is too flexible of a card not to play, having played it in an Esper Death Shadow build.
Red offers a lot of good 1-drops that synergize with Orzhov Charm: monastery swiftspear, goblin guide, vexing devil, etc. A lot of these creatures have haste so you can even bring them back the turn you top deck orzhov charm and attack.
(3) Pack Rat is way too slow for a deck like this. This deck wants to be explosive as possible.
(5) If playing Mardu, Orzhov Charm and Path to Exile are a must. In order to avoid becoming a bad Jund/ Grixis Death Shadow deck, we probably don't want to lean too much towards the midrange game. We want to be better in the early game.
Swiftspear demands you play a ton of noncreature spells. Eidolon requires the deck to deal a lot of damage in the early game, so it doesn't utterly criplle us. The delve creatures + Bedlam reveler are also worth considering, though they also have deck constraints. I think most prowess cards are just better served in a Jeskai shell.
(6) Biggest flaw of the deck is that it lacks efficient cantrips and searchers, so this puts inherent limitation on how central Death Shadow is. Whatever Mardu build we come up with, Death Shadow cannot play as big of a role as in Esper/ Grixis/ Jund builds.
I don't think Vexing Devil is a good card. I'm not sure what you're saying by trying to not be a bad burn deck, and then reccomend we add Swiftspear and guide. I think Orzhov charm is okay, but I don't think it's an auto include. I'd say 80% of the time it's a kill spell, 10% a reanimate and 10% a bounce to save your guy. I just find it to be an inferior kill spell, and with so many Death's Shadow Jund decks running around, I really don't like paying 8 life to terminate a goyf when I could just terminate it. The versatility is good, I think 1 is where I like to be.
I agree rat is too slow, and I also agree path is a good card. Personally my Reveler build has been doing pretty good for me. I think I'm fine relying on shadow as much as I do, as 16 of my cards are drawing and filtering, not including Reveler I already have as much draw as a Grixis deck. I don't think you want to go too aggro with mardu, that's not the colors for it, you have the best kill spells and discard in the game, so I use them and play a more midrange game.
Also I don't think helmsmasher is a good edition. Ranger of Eos is what you want.
I also considered playing around with a Mardu Death Shadow deck. Some things to keep in mind:
Eidolon does about the same damage to you as it does to the opponent, that's not a bad thing either since it powers up your DS's and draws removal. You don't have to be super aggressive with Eidolon either, but it is best on T2, and rather poor on T7. Fortunately the deck has ways to filter it. That's where Brutality/Pack Rat enter the picture, they're great ways to filter your bad draws into more useful effects.
That said, I agree with you that Pack Rat is too slow, instead I'm looking for more Brutality in the slot. It's a similar role, but much more mana efficient.
I would be careful about Guide, Swiftspear, and Devil, because at that point you're doing exactly what you set out to avoid which is just making a weaker burn deck. There's no need to include aggressive haste creatures. Removal plus solid threats and planeswalkers is enough. The deck, at least as I built it isn't made to be aggro. It plays a slower game than that.
Lastly, with Orzhov Charm, I just don't agree. The deck has a lot of efficient removal, there's no reason to play something less efficient, there's already plenty of ways to lose life built in. If the reanimator mode were better, then maybe. But there isn't anything you want to reanimate besides DS.
I also considered playing around with a Mardu Death Shadow deck. Some things to keep in mind:
Eidolon does about the same damage to you as it does to the opponent, that's not a bad thing either since it powers up your DS's and draws removal. You don't have to be super aggressive with Eidolon either, but it is best on T2, and rather poor on T7. Fortunately the deck has ways to filter it. That's where Brutality/Pack Rat enter the picture, they're great ways to filter your bad draws into more useful effects.
That said, I agree with you that Pack Rat is too slow, instead I'm looking for more Brutality in the slot. It's a similar role, but much more mana efficient.
I would be careful about Guide, Swiftspear, and Devil, because at that point you're doing exactly what you set out to avoid which is just making a weaker burn deck. There's no need to include aggressive haste creatures. Removal plus solid threats and planeswalkers is enough. The deck, at least as I built it isn't made to be aggro. It plays a slower game than that.
Lastly, with Orzhov Charm, I just don't agree. The deck has a lot of efficient removal, there's no reason to play something less efficient, there's already plenty of ways to lose life built in. If the reanimator mode were better, then maybe. But there isn't anything you want to reanimate besides DS.
I'm just really not sure how I feel about Eidolon tbh fam. It just doesn't seem like we are aggressive enough to take advantage of it. It seems like in most matchups currently, it's helping our opponent more than it helps us. Also it seems like a really weak topdeck. I personally haven't had trouble turning on Shadow by running the standard shadow list that runs almost all fetches.
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I love arena but rather prefer even more board presence turn 3. Lili's and lingering are better IMHO.
@Aazadan: boom + expertise seems to be nice but you will have nothing in the battlefield, won't you?
I'm trying goblin Dark-Dwellers instead. With LDs , pox and Magus of the Tabernacle I expect to punish the opponent even more until I safely cast Dark-Dwellers.
The deck is fair and good but it have a hard time beating decks with mana rocks and toolbox.
@All: What I will try now is to use some combination of bloodghast and lingering souls, trying to maximize the probability of discard a recurrent creature/spell while punishing the opponent.
Also, I will try some heavy beater such as Butcher.
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Arid Mesa
4 Marsh Flats
3 Blood Crypt
3 Sacred Foundry
1 Godless Shrine
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Plains
4 Death's Shadow
3 Pack Rat
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 TBD
Spells 19
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Collective Brutality
2 Path to Exile
3 Fatal Push
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Lingering Souls
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Chandra Pyromaster
My top two contenders for that remaining three drop are Reckless Bushwhacker and Scab-Clan Berserker.
Bushwhacker has an excellent interaction and curve with Lingering Souls, and it also plays very well with Shadow. But, it plays poorly with Liliana and Pack Rat. Liliana because she makes it hard to sandbag cards for a big turn, and Pack Rat because you can't activate and then Surge.
Berserker simply stacks well with Eidolon, and with Bolts decline and Push's rise it's a little bit harder to kill. Berserker is a strong anti combo/control card too, though it's a little weaker against decks that have a lot of creatures.
Mana efficiency. I don't think it's good enough with only Death's Shadow as a target for reanimation.
I started with it, but ended up cutting it. Why pay 2 mana when I can instead pay 1? Also, as an outside consideration, I didn't want more white mana early. The deck is very heavily pushed towards red due to Eidolon, so having another 2 drop that requires both of your other colors can be problematic.
Along the same lines, there's probably an argument to remove the Plains from the manabase.
Forgot about the Eidolon.
Thx
1. A Bedlam Reveler list - http://www.starcitygames.com/article/34850_Video-Daily-Digest-Revel-ation.html
Seems a bit threat light, I like Reveler better in more aggressive Jeskai lists with burn spells.
The SB Abrupt Decay is rather wierd too as Anguished Unmaking can be used without splashing green.
2. A more traditional Nahiri+Liliana list - http://www.starcitygames.com/article/34863_Video-Mardu-In-Modern.html
No Path to Exile at all (4x F.Push, 4x L.Bolt, 2x Terminate) is a bit wierd and Collective Brutality as the only life gain option is a bit unnecessary imho as the deck already packs plenty of discard (7x targeted + 4x Liliana) and I'd rather use Lightning Helix.
Also everybody seems to forget/ignore Nihil Spellbomb which would be better than Relic in the SB.
I think the reasoning behind no path is that you don't want to hand your opponent more land as the control deck. Letting the opponent draw into them naturally blanks a few draw steps and being that we can easily run fatal push and or terminate in its place we dont lose out on much.
I've found Collective Brutality to be excellent in a nahiri build, all modes are relevant, and being able to throw away that emrakul that inevitably gets stuck in your hand for value feels pretty good. Pitching the first half of lingering souls, or an extra land for a second effect is fine too. CB is almost never dead as a removal spell, but in the rare times it is, drain for 2 and duress are very viable alternatives.
I agree with you about the life gain, and the abundance of discard (7+2CB+4Lili) and would shave an Inquisition and a Thoughtseize for two helix. The burn spells give you that extra reach, and the lifegain is useful to buy another draw step. Midgame I would rather see a Helix as a topdeck than another discard spell.
I like Shauns list, but im still not sold on the Wall of Omens and I'm maybe too chicken to run Bob. So I'm holding out hope for a powerful 2 drop for this deck, maybe we'll get a RW/RB/WB Vizier that's good for us in this set?
Tidehollow is not well positioned right now in my opinion. Too many removals and discards on the field. You probably waste your turn 2 IMO.
Okay guys, here's the list I ended up bringing to fnm, happy with it went 4-1 and I think that's pretty solid. Sideboard is kind of weird, didn't have all the cards I wanted, but it served its purpose.
Land (18)
4x Arid Mesa
2x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Godless Shrine
3x Marsh Flats
1x Mountain
2x Sacred Foundry
1x Swamp
Creature (12)
4x Bedlam Reveler
4x Death's Shadow
4x Street Wraith
Instant (14)
2x Kolaghan's Command
3x Lightning Bolt
4x Manamorphose
2x Path to Exile
3x Terminate
Sorcery (16)
2x Collective Brutality
4x Faithless Looting
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
4x Thoughtseize
Sideboard (15)
2x Anger of the Gods
2x Crumble to Dust
2x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Lost Legacy
1x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Painful Truths
3x Stony Silence
2x Wear and Tear
Game 1 Vs. Elves
Thoughtseized his CoCo and then bolted his Archdruid and Ezuri. Never drew Reveler or Shadow, but a single lingering souls brought me the distance. Matchup felt pretty good. Boarded in 2 Grafdiggers and 2 Angers. Turn 1 Inquisitioned his Chord. Turn 3 I angered his board and he just couldn't come back from it, he had me dead on board but that deck just gets blown out by Anger.
1-0 Game 2 Vs. Ad Nauseum
Brought in a Lost Legacy for any combo matchup, real happy I did. Game 1 I had a good draw, Inquisition and brutality turns 1 and 2 into 2 shadows turn 3. Really hard to beat that no matter what deck you're playing tbh. Game 2 was kind of funny, but I don't chalk it up to a good win, idk. Turn 4 I'm pretty sure he's about to go off. I have 3 lands, I cast Lost Legacy, he pacts of negation, then I played a 4th land and thoughtseized his Angel's Grace. He lost on upkeep.
2-0 Game 3 Vs. Jund
Honestly a really boring and long matchup. Game 1 we are just 1 for oneing, until I play a Souls. Souls is really good against Jund it seems. Literally just Souls alone carried me to the finish line, because you really can't 1 for 1 souls, and he never drew pulse, card is really good. I boarded in 2 painful truths and a wear//tear that could be discarded if it needed to. Game 2 he had that Jund draw where they thoughtseize your hard removal, then play goyf, then play Liliana and you can't win. Goyf is a real good card and can end games quickly, especially with a Grim Flayer follow up. I just couldn't establish anything, didn't draw well at all it seemed. Game 3 is where Reveler really did some work. This time I'm on the play, he has the answers but I had the threats, I drew some souls he drew a Jund Charm, I killed his Goyf, he killed my Shadow. But then I hit Bedlam Reveler. Board State wasn't great, I had 1 Souls Token, he had a Lili at 3. Played Reveler into drawing another reveler, and a souls and a land. Played Souls, attack Lili down to 2, pass turn. He topdecks pulse, pulses my souls, -2 Lili. But now I have another Reveler in hand. Played Reveler and drew another Revler. That carried me to a win. I really really like the card when you're in a grindy matchup, that really won me the game there, topdecking a reveler feels amazing.
3-0 Game 4 Vs. GB Tron
Matchup doesn't feel unwinnable, but turn 3 natural Tron into Karn on the play is really hard to beat. My hand wasn't great, but it didn't get any better with a Karn out. Never got anything going game 1. Brought in the Stony Silence and crumble to dust. Starting hand was a 1 lander with looting and 2 silences and some other not great stuff cause my deck really doesn't match up well against Tron. Missed on the looting, and I didn't hit my second land until turn 4, what do you do. I think I want to try that matchup a bit more, it really doesn't seem unwinnable at all, I think if I can get a good aggressive hand I can deal with it.
3-1 Game 5 Vs Bant eldrazi
Death's Shadow is a great card against Eldrazi. If you take away their Path, there's nothing they can do. Had a really dirty feeling draw. Opponent kept a pretty heavy hand, 2 Nobles, a thought knot and another fatty, and a stirrings. I know this cause I Inquisitioned the first Noble away, and then turn 2 I Collective Brutality to kill his second noble and take his Stirrings. Death's Shadow the next turn ended it quick. A big advantage to this deck it seems, is you don't run out your reveler until you had to. No one boarded in Graveyard hate against me, which was really, really convenient I would have to say. At least none that I saw. Didn't know what to board, didn't really have to much it seems. Game 2 got pretty grindy. All I want to say, is that Displacer is a card that has to get killed. Souls Tokens kind of held off his guys, and his drowner tapped down my guys until it ate a terminate. Then I drew a Reveler, and he carried me to the promised land. The really great thing about Reveler and Faithless looting in the Graveyard is that you get 3/5 cards. That's really good selection. Played Reveler, drew path Wraith, land, flashbacked Looting, drew terminate land, discarded 2 land. Next turn drew Souls, then cycled into a bolt. That carried me to the end.
All in all really happy with the deck. Not sure if I can have a good Tron matchup, better than Jund maybe but not good. Also didn't play burn, thankfully. Deck really felt good, I'm happy I made it and if anyone has any other questions about it I'd gladly answer them. In conclusion I just want to say I feel like Reveler has some real untapped potential. He's not an aggro card. He's the Grindiest ******* card imaginable. I see people playing him in UR decks, makes no sense with counterspells. I see people play him in Burn decks, makes no sense you just want more burn spells. I think the deck he wants, is a grindy, tappout style deck, where you are 1 for 1, until you come out on top. Empty your hand and empty theres, and then if you topdeck a Reveler, it's some great value. Really really solid deck I believe, and again, if anyone has some constructive criticism, or suggestions I'd be really happy to hear it.
Here's what I went with
4 Arid Mesa
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
4 Blood Crypt
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Godless Shrine
1 Mana Confluence
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
Creatures 15
4 Death's Shadow
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Pack Rat
4 Reckless Bushwhacker
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
Spells 19
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
3 Fatal Push
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Path to Exile
1 Collective Brutality
4 Lingering Souls
1 Crackling Doom
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Dismember
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Deflecting Palm
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Gut Shot
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Pyroclasm
1 Bitterblossom
Played 4 rounds, went 4-0 in rounds for a solid first place, and 8-2 in games. I know it's just an FNM and a small one at that but I don't play on MTGO or go to large events so it's the best feedback I can get.
Round 1 was against Death's Shadow. I 2-0 this pretty easily. This deck absolutely crushes the mirror. Sword of Feast and Famine was especially funny.
Round 2 was against Grishoalbrand. I 2-1 off of losing game 1. It was real close, I had my opponent down to just a couple points of life, but I couldn't close it out (they also gained 50 life this game). Won the other two though just by hitting them really hard. One with Pack Rat.
Round 3 was against Swans. This was also a 2-1. The loss was due to not drawing enough removal spells.
Round 4 was against Tron. Thoughtseize wrecked them.
The sideboard was great. Used basically everything. The card that least pulled its weight was Pack Rat, I'm thinking it might be better off as 2 more lands and a Collected Brutality. Sideboard swords were especially good, I came across the idea for Faeries actually with a Brutality heavy deck and tried to apply it here with all the discard and it worked well. Swords are real strong when you can pitch them if they're clunky and use them when they aren't.
Favorite play of the night was against an opponent at 17. I'm at 13 with a Mana Confluence and 2 uncracked fetches on the board and another land. I draw, fetch/shock to 7, confluence to 6. Double Death's Shadow and Bushwhacker. Hit for 18 hasted. Opponent had no blockers.
I know that's seems pretty crazy but anyone had tried Zurgo?
A 7/2 semi-indestructible creature with haste can close the game real fast.
As 5 drop can be pretty uncastable but I suppose that for grind games can be a house.
I hadn't considered it. I did consider Stormbreath Dragon for my SB, but decided I didn't want to rely on 5 drops.
(1) It's important this deck doesn't become a bad burn deck. Playing Eidolon is only good if you can guarantee your opponent has a lower life total than you do (which is typical for a burn deck, but not for a typical shadow deck). It's nice you can manipulate your life total more easily with eidolon but you are also at a much bigger risk of killing yourself. Playing Eidolon can lock you from playing your cheap spells in the late game because you're probably going to be at a lower life total than your opponent without getting in damage with Death Shadow.
Being double red is not really a big issue because Death shadow decks fetch shocklands all the time. May have to cut some basics however.
Not saying you can't play Eidolon, but the deck must be constructed to deal a lot of damage in the first few turns for Eidolon to not backfire.
(2) Pretty much any BWx variant of death shadow should be using 2-3 Orzhov Charm. It is too flexible of a card not to play, having played it in an Esper Death Shadow build.
Red offers a lot of good 1-drops that synergize with Orzhov Charm: monastery swiftspear, goblin guide, vexing devil, etc. A lot of these creatures have haste so you can even bring them back the turn you top deck orzhov charm and attack.
(3) Pack Rat is way too slow for a deck like this. This deck wants to be explosive as possible.
(4) Also considering some goblin deck builds, like here: http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=15176&d=292021&f=MO for ideas.
(5) If playing Mardu, Orzhov Charm and Path to Exile are a must. In order to avoid becoming a bad Jund/ Grixis Death Shadow deck, we probably don't want to lean too much towards the midrange game. We want to be better in the early game.
Swiftspear demands you play a ton of noncreature spells. Eidolon requires the deck to deal a lot of damage in the early game, so it doesn't utterly criplle us. The delve creatures + Bedlam reveler are also worth considering, though they also have deck constraints. I think most prowess cards are just better served in a Jeskai shell.
(6) Biggest flaw of the deck is that it lacks efficient cantrips and searchers, so this puts inherent limitation on how central Death Shadow is. Whatever Mardu build we come up with, Death Shadow cannot play as big of a role as in Esper/ Grixis/ Jund builds.
I don't think Vexing Devil is a good card. I'm not sure what you're saying by trying to not be a bad burn deck, and then reccomend we add Swiftspear and guide. I think Orzhov charm is okay, but I don't think it's an auto include. I'd say 80% of the time it's a kill spell, 10% a reanimate and 10% a bounce to save your guy. I just find it to be an inferior kill spell, and with so many Death's Shadow Jund decks running around, I really don't like paying 8 life to terminate a goyf when I could just terminate it. The versatility is good, I think 1 is where I like to be.
I agree rat is too slow, and I also agree path is a good card. Personally my Reveler build has been doing pretty good for me. I think I'm fine relying on shadow as much as I do, as 16 of my cards are drawing and filtering, not including Reveler I already have as much draw as a Grixis deck. I don't think you want to go too aggro with mardu, that's not the colors for it, you have the best kill spells and discard in the game, so I use them and play a more midrange game.
Also I don't think helmsmasher is a good edition. Ranger of Eos is what you want.
Eidolon does about the same damage to you as it does to the opponent, that's not a bad thing either since it powers up your DS's and draws removal. You don't have to be super aggressive with Eidolon either, but it is best on T2, and rather poor on T7. Fortunately the deck has ways to filter it. That's where Brutality/Pack Rat enter the picture, they're great ways to filter your bad draws into more useful effects.
That said, I agree with you that Pack Rat is too slow, instead I'm looking for more Brutality in the slot. It's a similar role, but much more mana efficient.
I would be careful about Guide, Swiftspear, and Devil, because at that point you're doing exactly what you set out to avoid which is just making a weaker burn deck. There's no need to include aggressive haste creatures. Removal plus solid threats and planeswalkers is enough. The deck, at least as I built it isn't made to be aggro. It plays a slower game than that.
Lastly, with Orzhov Charm, I just don't agree. The deck has a lot of efficient removal, there's no reason to play something less efficient, there's already plenty of ways to lose life built in. If the reanimator mode were better, then maybe. But there isn't anything you want to reanimate besides DS.
I'm just really not sure how I feel about Eidolon tbh fam. It just doesn't seem like we are aggressive enough to take advantage of it. It seems like in most matchups currently, it's helping our opponent more than it helps us. Also it seems like a really weak topdeck. I personally haven't had trouble turning on Shadow by running the standard shadow list that runs almost all fetches.