What do you guys think,can mardu be playable with this much eldrazi going around? (Referring to the PT)
Sure it can. You just need the right discard early. Probably add another Damnation. The deck has plenty of removal. 4 fulminator mages can slow them down enough. I think Ben only had one loss in the actual Modern portion all weekend.
23 lands is good if you curve out at 4, having the bulk of your action being at the 3 cmc slot. If you run more than 2 or 3 four drops, or have a few 5 drops also, than 24 lands is almost mandatory. Remember, we have neither ramp nor cantrips.
Hey guys, when I was at GP Vancouver I hit up a few Modern side events. One of my matches was against a Mardu Midrange that was pretty sweet. I didn't get the player's list but I was excited to build my own version and this is my first draft:
Not sure if there is enough hate here for the Eldrazi insanity we are looking to be dealing with soon but this at least looks like a fun deck to tweak and work with.
I definitely prefer Abbot alongside Liliana over a Pyromancer. Abbot is a much stronger topdeck that I think can put on a similar amount of pressure most games. I think Pyro works better in a deck without Liliana, and with something like Sorin / Zealous Persecution / Vault of the Archangel to capitalize on the extra bodies.
I do like Kalitas, but for now my position is that in the matchups where Kalitas is strong Olivia is stronger. The only exception is Burn, but even there having your lifegain on a 4-drop isn't ideal. I think that spot could comfortably be Kalitas if you want to give him a test though.
Sun Titan and Darkdwellers are a little to high on the curve for me to want to pair with Dark Confidant, but I think Darkdwellers is a lot better than Sun Titan. I think I'd rather have Menace than Vigilance on my curve topper, it's cheaper, and we have more spells to recur than permanents (not counting recurring fetchlands, which is OK, but not that strong if we're already at 6 mana), and the recursion gets even weaker if our opponent packs Path to Exile.
Here's the list I've been running for a while. It has (among other things) excellent Mu's against Tron, Affinity, Scapeshift, pretty good Mu's against Eldrazi, Infect, BGx midrange, and passable MU's against burn, zoo, and boggles. I was thinking of putting up a new primer for it, thoughts (on both the primer and the deck itself)?
I'm brewing a similar build with pyromancer, mentor, and bobs. Since I'm running bobs for the CA I try and keep my curve lower. Another card I think is good, but probably not with bob is painful truths. I don't like the idea of flipping truths with bob, taking 3, then casting it for another 3 damage. 6 life for 3 cards isn't that cool. We already run 2-3 mentors and 3-4 lingering souls so that's 5-7 3cmcs bob can flip, outside of truths. I feel like we should run the set of helix to counter this life loss if the 3 cmc is this full.
I'll post my list later but I'm running 2 night's whisper for the CA. Only 4 life off a bob flip/cast and since it cost 2 I have a better chance of casting what I might draw off it by keeping my curve lower and not just spending the turn taking 6 and filling my hand for next turn.
I do run 3/3 mentor/souls and top the curve with a singleton hero of bladehold for the extra tokens and battle cry boost.
What do you think of the hero inclusion? It's cute with lingering souls, pyro, and monk tokens.
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CURRENTLY PLAYING Legacy: BWG Junk Modern: BGR Jund BUG BUG URW American Control BWG Junk BWR Dega midrange GWR Naya Zoo EDH: BWG Teneb, the Harvester Pauper EDH: WG Sigil Captain Standard:
Well I used to play standard...
I'm brewing a similar build with pyromancer, mentor, and bobs. Since I'm running bobs for the CA I try and keep my curve lower. Another card I think is good, but probably not with bob is painful truths. I don't like the idea of flipping truths with bob, taking 3, then casting it for another 3 damage. 6 life for 3 cards isn't that cool. We already run 2-3 mentors and 3-4 lingering souls so that's 5-7 3cmcs bob can flip, outside of truths. I feel like we should run the set of helix to counter this life loss if the 3 cmc is this full.
I'll post my list later but I'm running 2 night's whisper for the CA. Only 4 life off a bob flip/cast and since it cost 2 I have a better chance of casting what I might draw off it by keeping my curve lower and not just spending the turn taking 6 and filling my hand for next turn.
I do run 3/3 mentor/souls and top the curve with a singleton hero of bladehold for the extra tokens and battle cry boost.
What do you think of the hero inclusion? It's cute with lingering souls, pyro, and monk tokens.
It is 6 life for 4 cards (you also had Truth OFF Bob) anyway i think Truth is better than Bob but that's just person preferences (and LGS depending as my friends ALWAYS kills my Bob even if he is the 3rd or 4th creature i drop >.<)
I have never died to a bob flip in any of the games I have played (or even gotten low enough that I died to opponent topdecks). Hero isn't bad as a a 1 or 2 of, I would try her out if she has at least 60/40 odds of surviving. I prefer pia myself because you always get the tokens, and they have flying, which is actually relevant a good % of the time. On the other hand, if you just want hero for the pump ability you should just play sorin.
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." --Jaya Ballard
Here is my list after making some adjustments. My previous list ran brimaz instead of pyromancer and I just felt it was too clunky and low impact when trying to go wide.
I like the scullers, I've won games going T1 discard, T2 sculler, T3 sculler. They often attract removal so I feel like the opponent will have to choose between killing a sculler, bob, pyromancer, or mentor. He's also another creature to justify playing kolaghan's command. The hero of bladehold I haven't tested yet but I feel like the 4cmc spot is pretty flexible between hero, pia and kiran, kalitas, Sorin SV, and butcher/falkenrath. I only own hero and pia so that's why I'll test those. Either way I think 1-2 tops for the 4cmc spot is it when playing bob, I'm my opinion.
My SB is still being figured out. This is just what I threw together. I usually face tron, affinity, Jund, junk, living end, coco, burn, grixis, and random Aggro and combo brews.
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CURRENTLY PLAYING Legacy: BWG Junk Modern: BGR Jund BUG BUG URW American Control BWG Junk BWR Dega midrange GWR Naya Zoo EDH: BWG Teneb, the Harvester Pauper EDH: WG Sigil Captain Standard:
Well I used to play standard...
I'm thinking I'll be trying a Damnation in the SB over one of my other sweepers to help against Eldrazi. Hopefully that MU won't be 70% of the field for the next month...
Recently picked up playing Dega again after a while, been wanting to run a more land destruction based build. I want to find room in this list for 2 Bitterblossom but I'm not sure where they'd fit. List I want to run is this:
A lot of people here are running very nonbasic intensive decks, so I figure maindecking the Magus would be good. Is the mana destruction strategy viable or would I be better off focusing on tokens?
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Collecting Timbermare, hit me up if you have any for trade
So I've been testing and tinkering with the Mardu list that was run by Ben S and co at the pro tour, and I really like it. I've played enough game to where I'm looking to start tweaking it towards what I'm expecting at GP Melbourne. I have a few goals, first is try to make the eldrazi matchup stronger. Second: be ready for land hate in main and side. Third: be prepared for people packing wrath effects. Fourth: try to accomplish all this without giving up favorable aggro matchups.
So in regards to changes meeting goals I'm going way up on basics to make the deck more resilient to people attacking on the nonbasic land axis. I don't want to lose to fulminator recursion and blood moon as people will be packing those to fight the eldrazi menace. On my own fighting the eldrazi menace front I want more terminates in the main. Killing stuff dead seems powerful right now. On a similar eldrazi fighting note I want Young Pyromancer around spitting out chump blockers. Going Pyro into Souls stabilizes pretty well even against reality smasher. Abbot of Keral Keep is normally much stronger in this list given Pyro's dissynergy with Lili's +1, but I want to gum up the ground in this meta. Looking at finding room for a third. Maybe at the expense of a Bob. Also is why Vault of the Archangel is so important. Crackling Doom in the board is another concession to the 5/5 hasty trampling beatstick. Given how aggressive the format is turning out (and that many are predicting a rise in abzan company) I am a big fan of Kalitas as the four drop of choice. He stabilizes very well, and combines beautifully with the heaps of removal that mardu is packing.
Finally I'm embracing the Liliana builds of the deck of Monastery Mentor right now because I think with the eldrazi panic people are going to try things like playing jeskai with signets to power out turn three wrath effects. Had a guy at my game shop telling me that Jeskai crushes Eldrai with Supreme Verdict and Wrath main with mana leak and co. I don't know if it's good, it makes some amount of sense to me, but I have no clue. What I do know is that Liliana of the Veil is a great card against people relying on counters and wraths and Monastery Mentor isn't. So that's where I'm at right now. Have my proxy testing done just time to (gulp) order three Lili's and sign up for the GP.
I also took a good look at the pt decklist, though I came to some different conclusions than you did.
I feel that liliana is too weak/slow in this meta, and cut her entirely.
I've never loved mentor/pyromancer in this deck, and abbot has never impressed me, even in this list it never felt great. I almost wished I was playing pain seer sometimes.
I went back to SFGM, as it still continues to impress me.
I moved ajani to the sideboard, and added kalitas as a primary win-con. Kalitas has so far been good, but I'm not completely sold on him yet.
I didn't like the single mainboard fulminator mage, and I'd prefer to side the whole set.
I havent found room for vault of the archangel, but I'm only play 22 lands, so it would likely be a 23 if I added it.
Bituminous blast is currently a bit of a flex spot. If it dealt 5 damage I'd love it, but as it is, it feels alright. It might become a second crackling doom, as I feel this card is even stronger now, especially since it answers reality smasher so well.
With less creatures and less discard, mardu charm appealed to me. Its a bit slow, but it does handle a good number of threats.
I wish I could cram more terminates in for kalitas, but path feels like such a requirement at times, and I want to keep the burn up for sfgm, as well as for forcing damage through.
The sideboard feels pretty self-explanatory.
I'm actually liking this list a lot, as I feel I have some amount of fight against eldrazi, and if they don't get a nuts hand, you can generally just trade them 1 for 1 until they're out of threats, or your life total is so high you can just kill them.
Interesting, that is a hugely different conclusion. What is it about Lili that you don't like? Just too slow in the eldrazi matchup? She is slow, but I don't hate her against several of the fast decks. I like her against burn, infect, and suicide zoo. Don't love her against affinity. Like her against colorless eldrazi not a fan against UR. She's not an all star in the PT meta, but I think she will be against the decks trying to next level that meta, while being okay against some versions of eldrazi.
One more thought on Lili she really controts the way you have to build the mana in the deck. If you can't cast her on three a vast majority of the time you need to remake your mana base, and that's part of what scared me off of main decking crackling doom, which actually sounds kind of sweet. Also I'm just dreaming of curving her into Kalitas against a fair deck. Seems hard to lose.
I like soul fire grand master a lot, definitely a solid card. I could really see playing any of it, Young Peezy, Tidehollow, and Abbot right now. Think the meta is a bit too fast for the Old Pack Rat right now, but I could be wrong.
I'll agree the 1 of Fulminator main is janky, but I kind of like it even though I can't explain why and logically it doesn't make much sense. Should probably swap it to the side for the helix that is there, but I'm going to stick with it for a while.
Vault is definetly worse without Pyromancer. Lingering Souls is probably enough to make it worth it, but it's value goes up with every token maker added.
I'd be a little scared going into a field packing so much removal that doesn't hit smasher right now. I know you are looking to keep the burn count up to maximize SFGM but I'd want more Dismemeber/murderous cuts/terminates right now.
So I've been testing and tinkering with the Mardu list that was run by Ben S and co at the pro tour, and I really like it. I've played enough game to where I'm looking to start tweaking it towards what I'm expecting at GP Melbourne. I have a few goals, first is try to make the eldrazi matchup stronger. Second: be ready for land hate in main and side. Third: be prepared for people packing wrath effects. Fourth: try to accomplish all this without giving up favorable aggro matchups.
So in regards to changes meeting goals I'm going way up on basics to make the deck more resilient to people attacking on the nonbasic land axis. I don't want to lose to fulminator recursion and blood moon as people will be packing those to fight the eldrazi menace. On my own fighting the eldrazi menace front I want more terminates in the main. Killing stuff dead seems powerful right now. On a similar eldrazi fighting note I want Young Pyromancer around spitting out chump blockers. Going Pyro into Souls stabilizes pretty well even against reality smasher. Abbot of Keral Keep is normally much stronger in this list given Pyro's dissynergy with Lili's +1, but I want to gum up the ground in this meta. Looking at finding room for a third. Maybe at the expense of a Bob. Also is why Vault of the Archangel is so important. Crackling Doom in the board is another concession to the 5/5 hasty trampling beatstick. Given how aggressive the format is turning out (and that many are predicting a rise in abzan company) I am a big fan of Kalitas as the four drop of choice. He stabilizes very well, and combines beautifully with the heaps of removal that mardu is packing.
Finally I'm embracing the Liliana builds of the deck of Monastery Mentor right now because I think with the eldrazi panic people are going to try things like playing jeskai with signets to power out turn three wrath effects. Had a guy at my game shop telling me that Jeskai crushes Eldrai with Supreme Verdict and Wrath main with mana leak and co. I don't know if it's good, it makes some amount of sense to me, but I have no clue. What I do know is that Liliana of the Veil is a great card against people relying on counters and wraths and Monastery Mentor isn't. So that's where I'm at right now. Have my proxy testing done just time to (gulp) order three Lili's and sign up for the GP.
My first thought is that if you're focused on cranking up the basic land count I'd 100% run at least 2 Blood Moon in your 75, maybe 3. The card's just very strong & I've definitely considered it in my SB and even MD (with significant changes to the manabase & more basics, which you're doing anyways). Moon is certainly stronger than Fulminator, if you can support it.
I also took a good look at the pt decklist, though I came to some different conclusions than you did.
I feel that liliana is too weak/slow in this meta, and cut her entirely.
I've never loved mentor/pyromancer in this deck, and abbot has never impressed me, even in this list it never felt great. I almost wished I was playing pain seer sometimes.
I went back to SFGM, as it still continues to impress me.
I moved ajani to the sideboard, and added kalitas as a primary win-con. Kalitas has so far been good, but I'm not completely sold on him yet.
I didn't like the single mainboard fulminator mage, and I'd prefer to side the whole set.
I havent found room for vault of the archangel, but I'm only play 22 lands, so it would likely be a 23 if I added it.
Bituminous blast is currently a bit of a flex spot. If it dealt 5 damage I'd love it, but as it is, it feels alright. It might become a second crackling doom, as I feel this card is even stronger now, especially since it answers reality smasher so well.
With less creatures and less discard, mardu charm appealed to me. Its a bit slow, but it does handle a good number of threats.
I wish I could cram more terminates in for kalitas, but path feels like such a requirement at times, and I want to keep the burn up for sfgm, as well as for forcing damage through.
The sideboard feels pretty self-explanatory.
I'm actually liking this list a lot, as I feel I have some amount of fight against eldrazi, and if they don't get a nuts hand, you can generally just trade them 1 for 1 until they're out of threats, or your life total is so high you can just kill them.
Really surprised to hear you say that you dislike Lilly in the meta; I think she's one of our strongest cards against Colorless Eldrazi (less so vs processors with Blight Herder or UR with Skyspawner).
I'm not so sure about Mardu Charm, to me it seems to actually fill Lilly's spot in some ways by being an answer to a large creature & a way to attack an opponent's hand. Maybe you've found a lot of value in the instant speed or had good opportunities to make tokens with it, but it seems to me like Lilly does what Charm does but better.
If you're iffy on Bituminous Blast you might take Goblin Dark Dwellers for a spin. Same spot on the curve, assuming you don't fear Bob flips, and offers removal + a card but in this case the card is a 4/4 with menace (seems like a good deal). Dwellers obviously isn't instant though, and can never function as 2 removal spells like Blast sometimes can.
Ooohh I hadn't even considered that I could be a blood moon deck. I'll have to think on that. I don't own the moons and not sure I can budget them in with the Lili's but I'll definitely have to think about it. I was planning on just trying to blank hate and pack fulminators so I can beat down as well. Going to have to reconsider. I wonder if I'd need to jam another Swamp in if I went that route. Would also make the Wrath a fair bit worse as without it I think I would try to run with just 2 Plains. And being able to play Stony Silence and Blood Moon against Tron is kind of nice. Thanks for the idea.
I do think there will be a lot of land destruction running around and I think people should be prepared for it as they will bring it in against a grindy three color deck.
I had thought about dark dwellers, but I like the removal spell from bit blast.
I have actually gotten a ton of usage out of the mardu charm tokens. It can often function as a removal spell that leaves behind dudes.
Liliana is nice in that she is potentially repeatable, but against a lot of eldrazi decks she just edicts their worse creature, like a mana sorcery speed bolt.
I'm probably going to try to get as many crackling dooms in as I can, as the more I think about it, I realize its good against eldrazi, as well as affinity/bogles/infect/etc. Likely will cut the mardu charms for more dooms.
I'd say favor black and keep white as the splash color, for Blood Moon purposes, which can give you access to Liliana, Damnation, Kalitas etc. I also find that I fetch basic swamps out often anyways as a result of having so many 1cc discard spells. I think you could get away with just one Plains, and be fine (basing this on the fact that Grixis Moon decks often just run 1 Swamp). Sort of depends on if you'd MD the moons; if they're main then manlands are easy cuts (since your gameplan is to make them mountains anyways) and you could have plenty of basics.
Cody gotta agree on the Dooms, they're good to have around. On Lilly vs Eldrazi I find that I always have some damage-based removal for my opponent's early 'drazi, so when Lilly comes down (and I often hold her in this matchup to time the edict) she usually immediately eats a Seer or Smasher. Like I said, this is less true vs the versions of Eldrazi that make Scions.
BTW I can confirm Olivia is as insane as ever and just as nuts as she seems against Eldrazi. Assuming we aren't already mostly dead, Olivia quickly starts stealing their threats to use as blockers and grows out of Dismember range, and the Eldrazi decks don't have anything to stop her once she gets going (watch out for a dismember during combat though). Last game vs UR she just mowed down their entire board & all of the creatures in their hand over a few turns and closed the game as a 12/12 flier.
I think I'd want two plains if I went Blood Moon in the short term as if I grab them there is no way I'm splurging for Damnation at the same time. And I want to play a wrath effect. I think if I ran the moons I might just straight swap them for the fulminators and have a misers in the main and two in the board. Probably not optimal but gives me outs to lucky wins and bad beats stories. Going to have to test this out. Not sure I'll go for it (budgets can't stand them, but can't live without them...) but it actually sounds really strong.
On Olivia that report has me set to test a 1/1 split with her and Kalitas. I'd written her off a while back, but I'll give her another run.
Crackling Doom is awesome and if I wasn't trying to cut down on colored symbols in my main I definitely be running 1 or 2 in the main right now. Answering reality Smasher without discarding is so valuable.
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Sure it can. You just need the right discard early. Probably add another Damnation. The deck has plenty of removal. 4 fulminator mages can slow them down enough. I think Ben only had one loss in the actual Modern portion all weekend.
2 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
3 Restoration Angel
3 Wall of Omens
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Archangel of Thune
Instant:
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Crackling Doom
3 Lingering Souls
2 Lightning Helix
1 Terminate
Sorcery:
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
2 Bitterblossom
Land:
3 Shambling Vent
1 Needle Spires
3 Arid Mesa
3 Marsh Flats
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Godless Shrine
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Blood Crypt
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Path to Exile
1 Thoughtseize
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Crumble to Dust
1 Olivia Voldaren
2 Rakdos Charm
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Wrath of God
Not sure if there is enough hate here for the Eldrazi insanity we are looking to be dealing with soon but this at least looks like a fun deck to tweak and work with.
I do like Kalitas, but for now my position is that in the matchups where Kalitas is strong Olivia is stronger. The only exception is Burn, but even there having your lifegain on a 4-drop isn't ideal. I think that spot could comfortably be Kalitas if you want to give him a test though.
Sun Titan and Darkdwellers are a little to high on the curve for me to want to pair with Dark Confidant, but I think Darkdwellers is a lot better than Sun Titan. I think I'd rather have Menace than Vigilance on my curve topper, it's cheaper, and we have more spells to recur than permanents (not counting recurring fetchlands, which is OK, but not that strong if we're already at 6 mana), and the recursion gets even weaker if our opponent packs Path to Exile.
2 Shambling Vent
1 Godless Shrine
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
2 Plains
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
2 Arid Mesa
3 Marsh Flats
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Lingering Souls
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Monastery Mentor
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
3 Dark Confidant
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Terminate
1 Dreadbore
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Painful Truths
2 Path to Exile
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Liliana of The Veil
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Stony Silence
1 Path To Exile
1 Damnation
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Shatterstorm
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Timely Reinforcements
Primers
4C Walkers
I'll post my list later but I'm running 2 night's whisper for the CA. Only 4 life off a bob flip/cast and since it cost 2 I have a better chance of casting what I might draw off it by keeping my curve lower and not just spending the turn taking 6 and filling my hand for next turn.
I do run 3/3 mentor/souls and top the curve with a singleton hero of bladehold for the extra tokens and battle cry boost.
What do you think of the hero inclusion? It's cute with lingering souls, pyro, and monk tokens.
CURRENTLY PLAYING
Legacy:
BWG Junk
Modern:
BGR Jund
BUG BUG
URW American Control
BWG Junk
BWR Dega midrange
GWR Naya Zoo
EDH:
BWG Teneb, the Harvester
Pauper EDH:
WG Sigil Captain
Standard:
Well I used to play standard...
El_snoope's haves and wants list
I have never died to a bob flip in any of the games I have played (or even gotten low enough that I died to opponent topdecks). Hero isn't bad as a a 1 or 2 of, I would try her out if she has at least 60/40 odds of surviving. I prefer pia myself because you always get the tokens, and they have flying, which is actually relevant a good % of the time. On the other hand, if you just want hero for the pump ability you should just play sorin.
Primers
4C Walkers
I like the scullers, I've won games going T1 discard, T2 sculler, T3 sculler. They often attract removal so I feel like the opponent will have to choose between killing a sculler, bob, pyromancer, or mentor. He's also another creature to justify playing kolaghan's command. The hero of bladehold I haven't tested yet but I feel like the 4cmc spot is pretty flexible between hero, pia and kiran, kalitas, Sorin SV, and butcher/falkenrath. I only own hero and pia so that's why I'll test those. Either way I think 1-2 tops for the 4cmc spot is it when playing bob, I'm my opinion.
1 Shambling Vent
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Marsh Flats
3 Arid Mesa
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Godless Shrine
1 Blood Crypt
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Mountain
2 Plains
1 Swamp
23 lands
3 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Dark Confidant
3 Young Pyromancer
3 Monastery Mentor
1 Hero of Bladehold
14 creatures
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
2 Terminate
3 Lightning Helix
2 Night's Whisper
3 Lingering Souls
1 Kolaghan's Command
23 other spells
2 Crackling Doom
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Rest in Peace
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Path to Exile
1 Lightning Helix
3 Stony Silence
1 Grim Lavamancer
14 sideboard cards
My SB is still being figured out. This is just what I threw together. I usually face tron, affinity, Jund, junk, living end, coco, burn, grixis, and random Aggro and combo brews.
CURRENTLY PLAYING
Legacy:
BWG Junk
Modern:
BGR Jund
BUG BUG
URW American Control
BWG Junk
BWR Dega midrange
GWR Naya Zoo
EDH:
BWG Teneb, the Harvester
Pauper EDH:
WG Sigil Captain
Standard:
Well I used to play standard...
El_snoope's haves and wants list
I'm thinking I'll be trying a Damnation in the SB over one of my other sweepers to help against Eldrazi. Hopefully that MU won't be 70% of the field for the next month...
3 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Godless Shrine
2 Blood Crypt
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Plains
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Bloodghast
4 Fulminator Mage
4 Monastery Mentor
1 Magus of the Moon
4 Smallpox
4 Lingering Souls
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Boom // Bust
3 Faithless Looting
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Crackling Doom
A lot of people here are running very nonbasic intensive decks, so I figure maindecking the Magus would be good. Is the mana destruction strategy viable or would I be better off focusing on tokens?
So with those goals in mind I'm looking at these changes:
Main
-1 Ajani Vengeant
-1 Grim Lavamancer
-1 Inquisition of Kozilek
-1 Lightning Helix
-2 Abbot of Keral Keep
+2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
+2 Terminate
+2 Young Pyromancer
(and considering going -1 Kolaghan's Command for +1 Painful Truths)
Lands
Same number of fetches
Same number of shocks
Losing Ghost Quarter
Going from 5 to 2 Manlands
Adding 2 Swamps and Two Plains
-1 Blackcleave Cliffs
+1 Vault of the Archangel
Sideboard
-1 Damnation
+1 Wrath of God (mana's worse but I'm not splurging)
-1 Ajani Vengeant
-1 Rakdos Charm
-1 Fulminator Mage
+2 Crackling Doom
+1 Painful Truths
And the final list ends up looking like this:
1 Marsh Flats
2 Arid Mesa
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Blood Crypt
1 Godless Shrine
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Shambling Vent
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Swamp
1 Vault of the Archangel
4 Dark Confidant
2 Young Pyromancer
1 Fulminator Mage
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
Non Creature Spells
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
3 Terminate
2 Lightning Helix
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Lingering Souls
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Stony Silence
2 Crackling Doom
1 Wrath of God
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Lightning Helix
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Wear Tear
2 Rest in Peace
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Painful Truths
So in regards to changes meeting goals I'm going way up on basics to make the deck more resilient to people attacking on the nonbasic land axis. I don't want to lose to fulminator recursion and blood moon as people will be packing those to fight the eldrazi menace. On my own fighting the eldrazi menace front I want more terminates in the main. Killing stuff dead seems powerful right now. On a similar eldrazi fighting note I want Young Pyromancer around spitting out chump blockers. Going Pyro into Souls stabilizes pretty well even against reality smasher. Abbot of Keral Keep is normally much stronger in this list given Pyro's dissynergy with Lili's +1, but I want to gum up the ground in this meta. Looking at finding room for a third. Maybe at the expense of a Bob. Also is why Vault of the Archangel is so important. Crackling Doom in the board is another concession to the 5/5 hasty trampling beatstick. Given how aggressive the format is turning out (and that many are predicting a rise in abzan company) I am a big fan of Kalitas as the four drop of choice. He stabilizes very well, and combines beautifully with the heaps of removal that mardu is packing.
Finally I'm embracing the Liliana builds of the deck of Monastery Mentor right now because I think with the eldrazi panic people are going to try things like playing jeskai with signets to power out turn three wrath effects. Had a guy at my game shop telling me that Jeskai crushes Eldrai with Supreme Verdict and Wrath main with mana leak and co. I don't know if it's good, it makes some amount of sense to me, but I have no clue. What I do know is that Liliana of the Veil is a great card against people relying on counters and wraths and Monastery Mentor isn't. So that's where I'm at right now. Have my proxy testing done just time to (gulp) order three Lili's and sign up for the GP.
I feel that liliana is too weak/slow in this meta, and cut her entirely.
I've never loved mentor/pyromancer in this deck, and abbot has never impressed me, even in this list it never felt great. I almost wished I was playing pain seer sometimes.
2 Soulfire Grand Master
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
2 Mardu Charm
1 Crackling Doom
1 Bituminous Blast
4 Lingering Souls
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Thoughtseize
1 Terminate
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Marsh Flats
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Blood Crypt
1 Godless Shrine
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Rakdos Charm
4 Hide // Seek
1 Damnation
4 Fulminator Mage
2 Stony Silence
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Olivia Voldaren
I went back to SFGM, as it still continues to impress me.
I moved ajani to the sideboard, and added kalitas as a primary win-con. Kalitas has so far been good, but I'm not completely sold on him yet.
I didn't like the single mainboard fulminator mage, and I'd prefer to side the whole set.
I havent found room for vault of the archangel, but I'm only play 22 lands, so it would likely be a 23 if I added it.
Bituminous blast is currently a bit of a flex spot. If it dealt 5 damage I'd love it, but as it is, it feels alright. It might become a second crackling doom, as I feel this card is even stronger now, especially since it answers reality smasher so well.
With less creatures and less discard, mardu charm appealed to me. Its a bit slow, but it does handle a good number of threats.
I wish I could cram more terminates in for kalitas, but path feels like such a requirement at times, and I want to keep the burn up for sfgm, as well as for forcing damage through.
The sideboard feels pretty self-explanatory.
I'm actually liking this list a lot, as I feel I have some amount of fight against eldrazi, and if they don't get a nuts hand, you can generally just trade them 1 for 1 until they're out of threats, or your life total is so high you can just kill them.
One more thought on Lili she really controts the way you have to build the mana in the deck. If you can't cast her on three a vast majority of the time you need to remake your mana base, and that's part of what scared me off of main decking crackling doom, which actually sounds kind of sweet. Also I'm just dreaming of curving her into Kalitas against a fair deck. Seems hard to lose.
I like soul fire grand master a lot, definitely a solid card. I could really see playing any of it, Young Peezy, Tidehollow, and Abbot right now. Think the meta is a bit too fast for the Old Pack Rat right now, but I could be wrong.
I'll agree the 1 of Fulminator main is janky, but I kind of like it even though I can't explain why and logically it doesn't make much sense. Should probably swap it to the side for the helix that is there, but I'm going to stick with it for a while.
Vault is definetly worse without Pyromancer. Lingering Souls is probably enough to make it worth it, but it's value goes up with every token maker added.
I'd be a little scared going into a field packing so much removal that doesn't hit smasher right now. I know you are looking to keep the burn count up to maximize SFGM but I'd want more Dismemeber/murderous cuts/terminates right now.
My first thought is that if you're focused on cranking up the basic land count I'd 100% run at least 2 Blood Moon in your 75, maybe 3. The card's just very strong & I've definitely considered it in my SB and even MD (with significant changes to the manabase & more basics, which you're doing anyways). Moon is certainly stronger than Fulminator, if you can support it.
Really surprised to hear you say that you dislike Lilly in the meta; I think she's one of our strongest cards against Colorless Eldrazi (less so vs processors with Blight Herder or UR with Skyspawner).
I'm not so sure about Mardu Charm, to me it seems to actually fill Lilly's spot in some ways by being an answer to a large creature & a way to attack an opponent's hand. Maybe you've found a lot of value in the instant speed or had good opportunities to make tokens with it, but it seems to me like Lilly does what Charm does but better.
If you're iffy on Bituminous Blast you might take Goblin Dark Dwellers for a spin. Same spot on the curve, assuming you don't fear Bob flips, and offers removal + a card but in this case the card is a 4/4 with menace (seems like a good deal). Dwellers obviously isn't instant though, and can never function as 2 removal spells like Blast sometimes can.
I do think there will be a lot of land destruction running around and I think people should be prepared for it as they will bring it in against a grindy three color deck.
I have actually gotten a ton of usage out of the mardu charm tokens. It can often function as a removal spell that leaves behind dudes.
Liliana is nice in that she is potentially repeatable, but against a lot of eldrazi decks she just edicts their worse creature, like a mana sorcery speed bolt.
I'm probably going to try to get as many crackling dooms in as I can, as the more I think about it, I realize its good against eldrazi, as well as affinity/bogles/infect/etc. Likely will cut the mardu charms for more dooms.
Cody gotta agree on the Dooms, they're good to have around. On Lilly vs Eldrazi I find that I always have some damage-based removal for my opponent's early 'drazi, so when Lilly comes down (and I often hold her in this matchup to time the edict) she usually immediately eats a Seer or Smasher. Like I said, this is less true vs the versions of Eldrazi that make Scions.
BTW I can confirm Olivia is as insane as ever and just as nuts as she seems against Eldrazi. Assuming we aren't already mostly dead, Olivia quickly starts stealing their threats to use as blockers and grows out of Dismember range, and the Eldrazi decks don't have anything to stop her once she gets going (watch out for a dismember during combat though). Last game vs UR she just mowed down their entire board & all of the creatures in their hand over a few turns and closed the game as a 12/12 flier.
On Olivia that report has me set to test a 1/1 split with her and Kalitas. I'd written her off a while back, but I'll give her another run.
Crackling Doom is awesome and if I wasn't trying to cut down on colored symbols in my main I definitely be running 1 or 2 in the main right now. Answering reality Smasher without discarding is so valuable.