I only tested it briefly, so I could absolutely be wrong. It's a nice beater (though I still want Archangel more) and this deck sorely needs card draw, I just think we've either already won once we hit five mana or we need something that affects the board if we're at five and we're not in the position to win already. Still, if we've stalled our way to some Spirit tokens, Sky Hussar could give us some last minute gas to find a way. It does seem like a backbreaking thing to reveal from under Windbrisk, but so is Thune and I think that's what this is directly competing against
In most cases, I evaluate cards in Sisters on how they perform against Jund, Junk, Grixis and UWr. Those are the matchups that need to turn for this deck to be tier 2. Other matchups are either well in hand (Aggro builds) or completely out of hand unless we drastically change the deck (Combo outside of Twin). However, if we better those three match ups to where we can win 60-70 percent of the time, we're an amazing deck to bring to an unknown meta. At that point, we would just need to the tournament results to get to the point of being called Tier 2.
My evaluation on Sky Hussar against those builds is that we're only going to have enough creatures to trigger the forecast when we're already winning and a 4/3 is going to only survive one attack from an Ooze, Tasigur, Goyf or Colonnade and can be easily bolted off.
The metagame is constantly shifting. We know that. Modern Nexus has great articles that talk about the metgame shifts throughout the summer season and why certain decks were successful. Take a look at the World Championship metagame... is Living End a tier one deck? Is Hexproof Auras? I don't know, but they appeared at the World Championship event.
Look at the percentage of decks that make day 2. Burn, Merfolk, Grixis, Affinity... why can't we go 9-3? Did all those Merfolk players dodge their bad matchups to get there? Did they automatically lose to Griselbrand, Amulet Bloom, Living End, etc?.
I'm not suggesting that Soul Sisters is tier one ready. I'm not even suggesting that it should be represented in big tournaments all over the place. You look at GP events and you sometimes see a random deck show up (Lantern has been in development for a while, so I don't think we can say it's a "random" deck). Modern Nexus and Mtg Goldfish often do Meta Game analysis that gives us data from a variety of matches across the board, and Soul Sisters has a pretty good MWP. Yes, I know a lot of it is from MTGO...
So let's say, for the sake of argument, that Soul Sisters has a lot of appeal because it's a "budget" deck in a lot of circumstances. But look at some of the builds we're discussing. Auriok Champions, Archangel of Thune (and some other cards we'e discussed, like Cavern of Souls and fetches), make the deck non-budget. Does the non-budget version get a lot of representation on MTGO? Does the deck see an increase in MWP in the non-budget version? That's a very relevant question, I think.
I do not think the data on Soul Sisters is very good right now. Our latest incarnation of the deck needs a few brave souls to take it into bigger tournaments. I did a write up about my last PPTQ appearance with the deck, and I think a better player would have made top-8. I lost to myself against Affinity and forgot to take out sideboard cards against Jund... I went 5-3 with non-budget, lost the win and in. I only played Burn once. Burn, Twin, Abzan Company, BR midrange, and a midrange Goyf deck all lost to me... and in those matches I suffered only ONE game loss. I was wrecked by Tron (no Ghost Quarters and a couple of misplays). A better player with more experience at PPTQs with Soul Sisters would have certainly made Top 8, and would have played against one of three burn decks, a Merfolk deck, a White Blue deck, and a combo deck (forget which one it was).
We are at a huge disadvantage. We do not have a lot of people sleeving up the deck and piloting it at big events. All of the established decks and dedicated communities that are helping to grow the deck by posting results. When a new deck emerges a lot of people immediately try it. I think Soul Sisters does not have a lot of allure to it (I think Tokens is just a better version of Sisters in many ways) outside of the few people (us) who like to try it. We need data. I know someone talked about posting tournament results... well, we need people to play the deck.
Generally if I go to tournament, I'd rather take UWR, because that's my main deck, and I see testing that as more valuable, but we definitely need more people going out and gathering data using the optimal builds of the deck, not the cheapo budget versions. We've been suffering because of the split in the player-base. Half of use are competitive about it, the other half are casuals.
I play once a week at small events with this deck, it's the same people I played against at the pptq with the same decks so I feel the data is relevant. When I have more time I'd like to start taking it to the weekly 50 player event as well, again same decks and people as the pptq's here.
I feel like I lose to myself a lot but it's one of the reasons I like magic, most of the time I cannot blame variance because there were definitely better choices that I missed out on. But I like that I can see the mistakes I made and try to change them.
I know what you mean by a lot of builds being discussed not being budget, I live in Canada so we don't use starcity prices and the dollar isn't matching the US dollar anymore but my 200$ deck has grown to a $950 CAD deck. I just want to get the results I know this deck can and I know I am improving as a player keeping track of my results and my mistakes. I'll be posting again on Saturday evening with the results from the next thing I go to.
The main reason I asked about sky hussar is: as a two of out of the sideboard it sounds really good. We board it in against control and every deck we would want wrath against. It also makes wrath better for us because it improves our recovery, we hold out awkwardly as our deck is good at, then we wrath and drop spectral and we are right back in it.
I think it works to try and splash blue instead of black. Why not? Try the Hussar and let us know what happens! I think if you play with the Hussar, you should probably toss in Geist of Saint Traft, which could really turn into some shenanigans for you.
I actually wanted to try it out because it does work... theoretically. To get the value out of the mana base, I think you're just going to end up playing Collected Company (replaces Ranger of Eos)... the more I played around with CoCo Sisters (I called it Sisters Inc. lol), the more I realized it was better just to play a CoCo deck with Auriok Champions, and use the Spike Feeder/Archangel of Thune combo. But then, there are better CoCo decks, realistically.
If you look up Soul Sisters decks on Start City Games, there is a strong finish from a CoCo Sisters deck. I think I if you remove the Soul Sisters and play with Finks, Champs, and Voice of Resurgence, you might have some strong synergy, but I'm not so sure. It felt... a bit off for me when I tried it out.
Here's the link to the deck. I have a feeling they tried Kitchen Finks for a bit, because it makes sense to test it.
While there's definitely some truth to the idea that this deck hasn't topped a major tournament yet strictly because no one's running it, I think we do have to face the fact that a deck that only has +50% win rate on half of the format isn't a good deck to bring to the table. It's also people mistaking bad beats or other factors of losing a match up to mean "Oh, I have to change the core of the deck to get there" which more often than not isn't true.
I think as long as pros (Save for Reid Duke and RogueDeckBuilder, both of whom have done fun stuff with this deck) are never going to really give this deck any mind and we have to be the ones who grind it week in and week out. That means we have to do the research that the major decks are benefiting from because it's not available to us. If you're planning to bring it to a major tournament I think you have to grind it week in and week out beforehand to learn how it plays because you can't just read a ton of articles in the weeks before the tournament and sleeve it up and go. That's especially true of the type of player that's drawn to the deck (Low budget players who are just turning to competitive and lifegain has been their pet strategy.)
With rogue decks, you have to accept that you can't just start winning with them right away. That's the exact reason Lantern Control top 8'd when it did - it had a guy who's been grinding the deck for two years and trying to make it a thing piloting it. If you expect Sisters to compete, you have to be willing to grind it.
That being said, since we're back on the topic of splashes, I think a Blue splash is interesting because it opens us up to counter magic. Counter magic kills combo which almost always (save Twin) kills us. Test it for sure, and while you're at it, throw in some Dispels or Spell Snares at least into the side.
I still think the black splash opens up the most good stuff for us, though. In fact, if Martyr isn't part of the 75 any more (which I'm coming around to the idea that it's not), I think the black splash might be downright better than mono-white. Here's what my build looks like right now after accepting this:
I think Orzhov Charm over Dismember because the effect is about the same and it has the extra value of being able to sneak a Sister back into play (say in response to Bolt-Splinter Twin or just as late game value.). That helps you win those matchups like Jund, Junk or UWr where they get you down to having nothing in hand and anything you topdeck is just going to chump and then leave you vulnerable to a monster Goyf, Tasigur, Ooze or other beater. Removing Serra Ascendant is a hard choice, but it's nice to not need to overextend to get that 30 life total. Ranger was a tough non-include as well, but if you're not able to fetch Martyr/Serra, the card loses a ton of value.
With this build you can be much more responsive to the board and make sure an Anger of The Gods, Languish, Wrath of God or Supreme Verdict only 2-for-1 or 3-for-1s you. Those cards are still amazing against us, but again, that's the nature of the beast.
Most of the value of the black Splash comes post-board, where you can have the game's best answer to combo and still have a lot of the good value stuff for other decks. I don't have it finalized yet, but:
I'd like to find some room for an Extirpate or two, but I like this a lot. Thoughtseize is proactive removal against combo that can also replace Orzhov Charm or a Path in some matches. Zealous Persecution blows out aggro that gets going a step or two faster than us (Elves, Tokens on Occasion) and can actually stop Infect, which is hilarious. Canonist is better than Thalia against Combo. Stony Silence and Suppression Field should be obvious by now.
I've been saying for a while that Martyr/Proc is better than Sisters right now, but I think this build might be a little better because it gives you all of the value that you get in B/W Martyr with a stronger ability to win the game. I'll still probably sleeve up Proc because Martyr is my homegirl (Seriously, I am that newb player who saw Serra into Martyr when I first got started and it's pretty much the reason I play Magic.) but as someone who has sleeved Sisters since it was a Standard deck and has tried to jam it in every format possible, this really feels like the best version of it I can think of.
Went to two FMNs with this, got 1-3 each which is what I was expecting. Lost against multiple decks like Grixis Delver and Tron. Grixis games are always close games with this build: I always lose the game with my opponent having 1-3 life left. I know I am missing Serra, Ranger and Champion right now. So I was wondering what I should add and take out. For now, Auriok Champion is a card I'm ready to invest because it costs 40$ each at my locals. Serra and Ranger are quite expensive too with 25$ and 20$ each, but I'm more willing to pay for these cards than Champ.
For now I think I'm just willing to pay for 2 Serras and 1-2 Rangers. I know I will take out Divinity of Pride for them that's for sure. But beside this, what else I should do/add? Should I even bother with Paladin En Vec (Auriok replacement)? I know people play Brave the Elements. Is it good? Should I put those instead of Paladin ? Is the amount of lands good? And Sundering Growth or Oblivion Ring?
For now, I want to just turn this deck into an average good deck for FMNs and to have fun with it. But my longterm goal is to turn this deck into a competitive one.
You're required to have 3-4 Ranger of Eos. Squadron Hawk has been agreed upon to be the worst creature in the deck, and even with Jund around, it's just really lackluster. If you're playing without any Ascendants, you will lose. Ascendants are vital to the deck, and Rangers are also incredibly important.
That's not even a sisters list because you're missing out on the vital cards. If you want to make a non-sister list work decently, there's always the Relic Warder + Metamorph combo. It's bad, but go for it if you don't have money.
Paladin En-Vec is bad. Worse than Mirran Crusader, worse than Brimaz. Brave the Elements is alright, but not really mainboard worthy.
Your land count is only that high for Divinity of Pride, right? I don't think that's really worth running (The Serra effect is really only good when it's at a low cost.) If cost is a big enough concern to not be able to have Ranger, I would replace it with something the generates card advantage, I guess? Perhaps a Wall of Omens? I don't know, budget builds are kind of weird. Maybe a Mentor of the Meek?
I think you might want to look elsewhere than your locals. Those prices are way, way too high. Auriok can be had for as little as $22 online, Serra should be between $15-20 and Ranger is usually $10.
So I'm still hesitating if I should run Martyr of Sands or not. Do SS players still use Martyrs? I feel like I need at least some Martyrs to turn Serra on. But also I do feel like having her has more downside than upside.
Don't get me wrong, having her in opening hand is amazing! But... I tend to draw her during late game and it's terrible, and most of the time it cost me the game. Any thoughts? If Martyrs should be run, how much? I find a playset gets too cloggy. If I do put back in the Martyrs, I say 2 copies is good.
And also, is Serra still relevant without the Martyrs? If yes, how and what's the right way to use Serra in-game without Martyrs?
Serra is very relevant without Martyrs. Spectral Procession, Lingering Souls, and Secure the Wastes all pump Ascendant. If you run the more aggressive build, which is the build without martyrs, Serra Ascendant is a very good turn one play. It opens up a lot of options for you. You can easily get to 30 by the mid-game and draw an Ascendant with Ranger of Eos.
As Jex has mentioned... no Hawks and Angels together, and 4 Champs. The Martyr of Sands is better in the Martyr/Proc build or Norin Sisters. The Martyr build still wins games on MTGO but the build is too fragile if you are gaining life to play one card that you are not guaranteed to play/resolve/attack with. And it's not like attacking with an Ascendant as a 6 6 lifelink flyer is always lethal damage. I think a few posts back we discussed why Martyr might not be viable anymore as a Soul Sisters staple. It's worth it to take a look through most of the posts and read what other people have experienced to see how the deck has evolved.
I read through almost all of the posts before I began posting here, myself. I wanted to refrain from repeating discussions. I think if you look through the forum you will see a lot of discussion about specific card choices that have brought the deck to the point where there is a distinct difference between builds that include Martyr and builds that want to splash a second color or builds that want to remain mono-white with Secure the Wastes.
This is a deck that takes a lot of patience to learn. You have to learn how to trust cards because you need to learn how they might impact a game over the long-term rather than how a card impacts play on the one turn you play it.
We win with consistency and redundancy. You need to play lots of reliable cards. Singletons are generally weak, unless you play 4 Ranger of Eos, and it costs 1.
Boboctiberius, your build is somewhat "Rogue" lol. I know you've talked a lot about Orzhov Charm in the past. I see you want to test without Ranger or Ascendant? I am very curious how this will play out. Right now I'm a bit conservative in my testing after being successful with it a bit; I am mostly flexing two spots... two Archangel of Thune. I sometimes don't know if I want them at all.
I agree. This deck needs a lot of grinding. For the last PPTQ that I brought Sisters to, I tested it hard for about three weeks, which wasn't enough because a Ghost Quarter would have been huge for me, and I didn't test it enough. I fiddled with a lot of cards before settling on something I felt was optimal. I think I went 0-3 the night before the PPTQ because I sometimes keep "bad" hands in certain matches to test. I don't mind paying five bucks to playtest at FNM to try out various cards. Sitting across from a Burn or Twin player doesn't help me very much unless I mess around with sideboard cards a bit.
It's not so much I want to test without them, it's just I think they're the right cuts for the build. Part of me is curious to see if tokens+Honor can win games the way they do with B/W tokens, while having a plan B (which B/W tokens doesn't really have.) I'd much rather run 2-3 Rangers and a Serra or two than Honor (a guy at my locals does this but I don't seem him often enough to get good feedback from him. He loves the B/W build, though) but I think the lack of more removal is the thing that is stopping us from being competitive. I don't think the game plan itself is good enough to be as linear as it is and Orzhov Charm is a good panic button type card for what we want to do. It's still much, much better in Martyr/Proc, but I think it generates value from all three modes with Sisters as well.
I'm traveling this week so I'll miss my locals, but I think I might just show up to a store that I see online has a Modern event and take that build to it/ I'm really torn on whether B/W Martyr or the build I posted is the one I want to bring to GP LA, but I think I need to have that figured out soon so I can get in several months of grinding it in before the big dance. I truly do think B/W is the best of the bunch right now and there's no reason not to do it if you're not running Martyr. Thoughtseize in a deck that gains life seems brutal against combo.
I don't think you run Hawks in general in this deck right now. I don't know why people are specifying not to run them with Archangel.
Orzhov Charm might have some great utility. I think Brave the Elements can serve a similar purpose in many ways; protecting your creatures against a card like Pyroclasm or any kind of huge attack (or blocking a Path to Exile) might be as efficient as running a Charm, because you are paying one white instead of having two colored mana open, and sometimes buying ourselves ONE MORE TURN TO GET/KEEP 30 life is huge with an Ascendant.
But playing without Ranger or Ascendant changes things a bit, so Brave the Elements is kind of meh. Your strategy has shifted, so I am very curious to see how this tests. I can't wrap my head around it now because it's almost like playing a different deck, but I like where your head is at. Your idea does make a lot of sense.
I think Thoughtseize is definitely next on the list of sideboard cards to try for me.
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In most cases, I evaluate cards in Sisters on how they perform against Jund, Junk, Grixis and UWr. Those are the matchups that need to turn for this deck to be tier 2. Other matchups are either well in hand (Aggro builds) or completely out of hand unless we drastically change the deck (Combo outside of Twin). However, if we better those three match ups to where we can win 60-70 percent of the time, we're an amazing deck to bring to an unknown meta. At that point, we would just need to the tournament results to get to the point of being called Tier 2.
My evaluation on Sky Hussar against those builds is that we're only going to have enough creatures to trigger the forecast when we're already winning and a 4/3 is going to only survive one attack from an Ooze, Tasigur, Goyf or Colonnade and can be easily bolted off.
Look at the percentage of decks that make day 2. Burn, Merfolk, Grixis, Affinity... why can't we go 9-3? Did all those Merfolk players dodge their bad matchups to get there? Did they automatically lose to Griselbrand, Amulet Bloom, Living End, etc?.
I'm not suggesting that Soul Sisters is tier one ready. I'm not even suggesting that it should be represented in big tournaments all over the place. You look at GP events and you sometimes see a random deck show up (Lantern has been in development for a while, so I don't think we can say it's a "random" deck). Modern Nexus and Mtg Goldfish often do Meta Game analysis that gives us data from a variety of matches across the board, and Soul Sisters has a pretty good MWP. Yes, I know a lot of it is from MTGO...
So let's say, for the sake of argument, that Soul Sisters has a lot of appeal because it's a "budget" deck in a lot of circumstances. But look at some of the builds we're discussing. Auriok Champions, Archangel of Thune (and some other cards we'e discussed, like Cavern of Souls and fetches), make the deck non-budget. Does the non-budget version get a lot of representation on MTGO? Does the deck see an increase in MWP in the non-budget version? That's a very relevant question, I think.
I do not think the data on Soul Sisters is very good right now. Our latest incarnation of the deck needs a few brave souls to take it into bigger tournaments. I did a write up about my last PPTQ appearance with the deck, and I think a better player would have made top-8. I lost to myself against Affinity and forgot to take out sideboard cards against Jund... I went 5-3 with non-budget, lost the win and in. I only played Burn once. Burn, Twin, Abzan Company, BR midrange, and a midrange Goyf deck all lost to me... and in those matches I suffered only ONE game loss. I was wrecked by Tron (no Ghost Quarters and a couple of misplays). A better player with more experience at PPTQs with Soul Sisters would have certainly made Top 8, and would have played against one of three burn decks, a Merfolk deck, a White Blue deck, and a combo deck (forget which one it was).
We are at a huge disadvantage. We do not have a lot of people sleeving up the deck and piloting it at big events. All of the established decks and dedicated communities that are helping to grow the deck by posting results. When a new deck emerges a lot of people immediately try it. I think Soul Sisters does not have a lot of allure to it (I think Tokens is just a better version of Sisters in many ways) outside of the few people (us) who like to try it. We need data. I know someone talked about posting tournament results... well, we need people to play the deck.
UWR Control
Legacy:
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I feel like I lose to myself a lot but it's one of the reasons I like magic, most of the time I cannot blame variance because there were definitely better choices that I missed out on. But I like that I can see the mistakes I made and try to change them.
I know what you mean by a lot of builds being discussed not being budget, I live in Canada so we don't use starcity prices and the dollar isn't matching the US dollar anymore but my 200$ deck has grown to a $950 CAD deck. I just want to get the results I know this deck can and I know I am improving as a player keeping track of my results and my mistakes. I'll be posting again on Saturday evening with the results from the next thing I go to.
The main reason I asked about sky hussar is: as a two of out of the sideboard it sounds really good. We board it in against control and every deck we would want wrath against. It also makes wrath better for us because it improves our recovery, we hold out awkwardly as our deck is good at, then we wrath and drop spectral and we are right back in it.
If you look up Soul Sisters decks on Start City Games, there is a strong finish from a CoCo Sisters deck. I think I if you remove the Soul Sisters and play with Finks, Champs, and Voice of Resurgence, you might have some strong synergy, but I'm not so sure. It felt... a bit off for me when I tried it out.
Here's the link to the deck. I have a feeling they tried Kitchen Finks for a bit, because it makes sense to test it.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=86242
I think as long as pros (Save for Reid Duke and RogueDeckBuilder, both of whom have done fun stuff with this deck) are never going to really give this deck any mind and we have to be the ones who grind it week in and week out. That means we have to do the research that the major decks are benefiting from because it's not available to us. If you're planning to bring it to a major tournament I think you have to grind it week in and week out beforehand to learn how it plays because you can't just read a ton of articles in the weeks before the tournament and sleeve it up and go. That's especially true of the type of player that's drawn to the deck (Low budget players who are just turning to competitive and lifegain has been their pet strategy.)
With rogue decks, you have to accept that you can't just start winning with them right away. That's the exact reason Lantern Control top 8'd when it did - it had a guy who's been grinding the deck for two years and trying to make it a thing piloting it. If you expect Sisters to compete, you have to be willing to grind it.
That being said, since we're back on the topic of splashes, I think a Blue splash is interesting because it opens us up to counter magic. Counter magic kills combo which almost always (save Twin) kills us. Test it for sure, and while you're at it, throw in some Dispels or Spell Snares at least into the side.
I still think the black splash opens up the most good stuff for us, though. In fact, if Martyr isn't part of the 75 any more (which I'm coming around to the idea that it's not), I think the black splash might be downright better than mono-white. Here's what my build looks like right now after accepting this:
4 Soul's Attendant
4 Auriok Champion
4 Ajani's Pridemate
3 Archangel of Thune
4 Spectral Procession
4 Honor of the Pure
4 Path to Exile
3 Orzhov Charm
4 Marsh Flats
4 Godless Shrine
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Windbrisk Heights
1 Swamp
I think Orzhov Charm over Dismember because the effect is about the same and it has the extra value of being able to sneak a Sister back into play (say in response to Bolt-Splinter Twin or just as late game value.). That helps you win those matchups like Jund, Junk or UWr where they get you down to having nothing in hand and anything you topdeck is just going to chump and then leave you vulnerable to a monster Goyf, Tasigur, Ooze or other beater. Removing Serra Ascendant is a hard choice, but it's nice to not need to overextend to get that 30 life total. Ranger was a tough non-include as well, but if you're not able to fetch Martyr/Serra, the card loses a ton of value.
With this build you can be much more responsive to the board and make sure an Anger of The Gods, Languish, Wrath of God or Supreme Verdict only 2-for-1 or 3-for-1s you. Those cards are still amazing against us, but again, that's the nature of the beast.
Most of the value of the black Splash comes post-board, where you can have the game's best answer to combo and still have a lot of the good value stuff for other decks. I don't have it finalized yet, but:
3 Ghostly Prison
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Stony Silence
2 Suppression Field
I'd like to find some room for an Extirpate or two, but I like this a lot. Thoughtseize is proactive removal against combo that can also replace Orzhov Charm or a Path in some matches. Zealous Persecution blows out aggro that gets going a step or two faster than us (Elves, Tokens on Occasion) and can actually stop Infect, which is hilarious. Canonist is better than Thalia against Combo. Stony Silence and Suppression Field should be obvious by now.
I've been saying for a while that Martyr/Proc is better than Sisters right now, but I think this build might be a little better because it gives you all of the value that you get in B/W Martyr with a stronger ability to win the game. I'll still probably sleeve up Proc because Martyr is my homegirl (Seriously, I am that newb player who saw Serra into Martyr when I first got started and it's pretty much the reason I play Magic.) but as someone who has sleeved Sisters since it was a Standard deck and has tried to jam it in every format possible, this really feels like the best version of it I can think of.
4x Soul Warden
4x Soul's Attendant
2x Suture Priest
4x Ajani's Pridemate
2x Paladin En-Vec
3x Divinity of Pride
4x Squadron Hawk
4x Path to Exile
4x Honor of the Pure
4x Spectral Procession
3x Secure the Wastes
Lands (22)
19x Plains
2x Windbrisk Heights
3x Ghost Quarter
4x Celestial Flare
2x Kor Firewalker
2x Oblivion Ring
2x Return to the Ranks
1x Ghostly Prison
2x Day of Judgement
Went to two FMNs with this, got 1-3 each which is what I was expecting. Lost against multiple decks like Grixis Delver and Tron. Grixis games are always close games with this build: I always lose the game with my opponent having 1-3 life left. I know I am missing Serra, Ranger and Champion right now. So I was wondering what I should add and take out. For now, Auriok Champion is a card I'm ready to invest because it costs 40$ each at my locals. Serra and Ranger are quite expensive too with 25$ and 20$ each, but I'm more willing to pay for these cards than Champ.
For now I think I'm just willing to pay for 2 Serras and 1-2 Rangers. I know I will take out Divinity of Pride for them that's for sure. But beside this, what else I should do/add? Should I even bother with Paladin En Vec (Auriok replacement)? I know people play Brave the Elements. Is it good? Should I put those instead of Paladin ? Is the amount of lands good? And Sundering Growth or Oblivion Ring?
For now, I want to just turn this deck into an average good deck for FMNs and to have fun with it. But my longterm goal is to turn this deck into a competitive one.
Thank you!
That's not even a sisters list because you're missing out on the vital cards. If you want to make a non-sister list work decently, there's always the Relic Warder + Metamorph combo. It's bad, but go for it if you don't have money.
Paladin En-Vec is bad. Worse than Mirran Crusader, worse than Brimaz. Brave the Elements is alright, but not really mainboard worthy.
UWR Control
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I think you might want to look elsewhere than your locals. Those prices are way, way too high. Auriok can be had for as little as $22 online, Serra should be between $15-20 and Ranger is usually $10.
Don't get me wrong, having her in opening hand is amazing! But... I tend to draw her during late game and it's terrible, and most of the time it cost me the game. Any thoughts? If Martyrs should be run, how much? I find a playset gets too cloggy. If I do put back in the Martyrs, I say 2 copies is good.
And also, is Serra still relevant without the Martyrs? If yes, how and what's the right way to use Serra in-game without Martyrs?
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
As Jex has mentioned... no Hawks and Angels together, and 4 Champs. The Martyr of Sands is better in the Martyr/Proc build or Norin Sisters. The Martyr build still wins games on MTGO but the build is too fragile if you are gaining life to play one card that you are not guaranteed to play/resolve/attack with. And it's not like attacking with an Ascendant as a 6 6 lifelink flyer is always lethal damage. I think a few posts back we discussed why Martyr might not be viable anymore as a Soul Sisters staple. It's worth it to take a look through most of the posts and read what other people have experienced to see how the deck has evolved.
I read through almost all of the posts before I began posting here, myself. I wanted to refrain from repeating discussions. I think if you look through the forum you will see a lot of discussion about specific card choices that have brought the deck to the point where there is a distinct difference between builds that include Martyr and builds that want to splash a second color or builds that want to remain mono-white with Secure the Wastes.
This is a deck that takes a lot of patience to learn. You have to learn how to trust cards because you need to learn how they might impact a game over the long-term rather than how a card impacts play on the one turn you play it.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
I agree. This deck needs a lot of grinding. For the last PPTQ that I brought Sisters to, I tested it hard for about three weeks, which wasn't enough because a Ghost Quarter would have been huge for me, and I didn't test it enough. I fiddled with a lot of cards before settling on something I felt was optimal. I think I went 0-3 the night before the PPTQ because I sometimes keep "bad" hands in certain matches to test. I don't mind paying five bucks to playtest at FNM to try out various cards. Sitting across from a Burn or Twin player doesn't help me very much unless I mess around with sideboard cards a bit.
I'm traveling this week so I'll miss my locals, but I think I might just show up to a store that I see online has a Modern event and take that build to it/ I'm really torn on whether B/W Martyr or the build I posted is the one I want to bring to GP LA, but I think I need to have that figured out soon so I can get in several months of grinding it in before the big dance. I truly do think B/W is the best of the bunch right now and there's no reason not to do it if you're not running Martyr. Thoughtseize in a deck that gains life seems brutal against combo.
I don't think you run Hawks in general in this deck right now. I don't know why people are specifying not to run them with Archangel.
But playing without Ranger or Ascendant changes things a bit, so Brave the Elements is kind of meh. Your strategy has shifted, so I am very curious to see how this tests. I can't wrap my head around it now because it's almost like playing a different deck, but I like where your head is at. Your idea does make a lot of sense.
I think Thoughtseize is definitely next on the list of sideboard cards to try for me.