Don't cut martyr completely. 3 of is a good number; get her in your opening hand and it's amazing. Get her mid-game and she can still chump block/before dmg sac and gain you life.
Primary wins vs tron and a few other similar speed decks are Martyr into ascendant, where the deck is a combo deck in effect. I still favour 4, and have run 3. I have played both Sisters with and without, and Proc plus Norrin to boot.
The equation is always skewed- cutting Martyr yields a semi-proc/semi Martyr deck without enough control to have the inevitability that Proc has vs most decks. You end up with a deck that is half sisters/half proc, whilst the real versions of the deck do better.
Proc - needs 4
Norrin- does not need them at all.
SS.......?? I still say 4, but no definitive answers. When we can beat Tron without 3 or 4 Marytr I will listen to arguments for 0. Everytime I tried it I end up putting them back the moment those tron decks turn up.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
We can't get full potential from Wilt-Leaf, and can't abuse its effect as well as we can Archangel.
Yeah, I agree. Amazing how Wilt-Leaf Liege has skyrocketed in price too. Looking at the Pro Tour list from this past weekend, I kind of wonder how valuable the Serra Ascendant is in that list without Martyr. I almost feel like it would just be better to splash black and play 4 lingering souls, or perhaps up the Archangel and Honor numbers.
Having not seen the deck in action (no camera time i think), there is no certain way to ascertain how the deck played.
personally however, i wouldn't play 23 lands and Flagstones of Trokair is just weird in a deck / format that doesn't have Armageddon.
23 lands isn't unusual in Archangel builds. I run 2 Flagstones and 2 Mistveil and it really is excellent at recurring hawks. I'm surprised the list did so well with so few anthems to go with the hawks, but this is a great, great build. Karn is super interesting.
Outrace them, rely on the sideboard, and hope for the best.
Chalice of the Void is really good against the Pact kill.
That's the thing... Chalice does nothing against pact. The order is:
1 they cast hive mind
2 they cast a pact
3 chalice counters the pact
4 hive mind makes you copy the pact
5 GG. Chalice counters "cast" Spells... The copy is not casted,its copied so you lose.
Well, guess it's race and prey for no hive mind...and ghost quarter their land
chalice counters your pact as well. but i dont think running it is the best idea.(extremely narrow) aven mind censor and or thalia might be better. i havent had a chance to test it though.
Chalice does not counter your pact as it is not cast. It is created on the stack.
The copies that Hive Mind's ability creates are created on the stack, so they're not "cast." Abilities that trigger when a player casts a spell (like Hive Mind's ability itself) won't trigger.
I played alot the aggro version of the Soul Sister Deck. Now i want to try Archangel of Thune. I read the whole thread and can someone explain why nobody plays Path to Exile anymore?
Path to Exile was often 100% mainboard in every white deck.
Greetings
While some people run a split between the main and the side, just about every plays Path and I don't think anyone here is going to tell you anything other than Path is necessary.
Most of your answers are maindeck answers - Pathing problem creatures and Ghost Quartering problem lands. More removal (Celestial Flare is helpful since both decks typically only fight in with one creature), Blowing things up with Sundering Growth might buy you time, as well. Suppression Field can be helpful against either deck (It stops their lands tap effects and hurts Infect trying to get you from Blinkmoth,) but the Amulet decks will usually have enough mana to get through that.
Keep in mind that even with sideboard help, whether or not we beat these decks has more to do with how they run than what we do, and both matchups are incredibly rough. Sadly, there aren't a ton of answers we have available to us (especially if you're mono-w,) so I wouldn't spend too much of my sideboard trying to hurt them. Most of the cards I mentioned are stuff that should be included in your sideboard anyway, because they are great utility answers to lots of decks that can swing games our way.
has anybody tinkered with boros sisters? basically the core sisters in the main soul sisters deck (serra asc, matyr, soul attendent, auriok champ) with burn (lightning helix, lightning bolt, boros charm) and soulfire grand master and path to exile.
having a soft lock with soulfire grandmaster with path to exile on buyback is potent along with lightning helix, lightning bolt or boros charm.
has anybody tinkered with boros sisters? basically the core sisters in the main soul sisters deck (serra asc, matyr, soul attendent, auriok champ) with burn (lightning helix, lightning bolt, boros charm) and soulfire grand master and path to exile.
having a soft lock with soulfire grandmaster with path to exile on buyback is potent along with lightning helix, lightning bolt or boros charm.
Most of my experience is RW Sisters. I really felt like I needed the burn to give me that little reach to finish games.
I haven't thought about trying Soulfire GM in a RW build. Let me know what you think if you do give a try. I don't have any or I would try it. Do you think she is a 4-of in the deck?
My thoughts compared to mono white
-Has reach due to burn
-A more-flexible sideboard (the Sundering Growth's would have been Wear/Tear but I didn't have any at the time)
-Loses pseudo-card advantage by not having Squad Hawks or Ranger
-Martyr, Serra, and Bolt in opening hand feels terrible (this has happened and it's like...if this was a white card I just win. I've thought about dropping Bolt and just running Charm/Helix in main instead)
has anybody tinkered with boros sisters? basically the core sisters in the main soul sisters deck (serra asc, matyr, soul attendent, auriok champ) with burn (lightning helix, lightning bolt, boros charm) and soulfire grand master and path to exile.
having a soft lock with soulfire grandmaster with path to exile on buyback is potent along with lightning helix, lightning bolt or boros charm.
Most of my experience is RW Sisters. I really felt like I needed the burn to give me that little reach to finish games.
I haven't thought about trying Soulfire GM in a RW build. Let me know what you think if you do give a try. I don't have any or I would try it. Do you think she is a 4-of in the deck?
My thoughts compared to mono white
-Has reach due to burn
-A more-flexible sideboard (the Sundering Growth's would have been Wear/Tear but I didn't have any at the time)
-Loses pseudo-card advantage by not having Squad Hawks or Ranger
-Martyr, Serra, and Bolt in opening hand feels terrible (this has happened and it's like...if this was a white card I just win. I've thought about dropping Bolt and just running Charm/Helix in main instead)
That's really the trouble with Martyr, she really kind of almost demands a "Mono-white Devotion" kind of list. I splash black, sure, but even then the only cards I've added are also white (Orzhov Charm and Lingering Souls much like your Lightning Helix and Boros Charm).
I think everyone agrees that the major failing of this deck is ability to interact (lack of removal/discard) and lack of reach in the late(r) game. I've tried a few other options but I always wonder if there isn't something better on the horizon, some sweet tech that simply hasn't been tested yet. Given the whole, "Devotion to White" tendency of Martyr I decided to see what else I could find. Honestly, most of the options suck except for Athreos, God of Passage and Ephara, God of the Polis whose only redeeming quality is the card draw which could help this deck. Now Athreos, on the other hand, plays EXTREMELY well with Martyr. How? Well Martyr sacs on command, even with zero cards in hand. With Athreos on the field you could basically sac Martyr once per turn to gain 3 life and force the opponent to choose to lose three simply to stop the "combo". It could be good with Squadron Hawks because you get so many per cast that they really need to pay the 3 life to prevent them from becoming a real nuisance. Also, with Honor of the Pure it helps build up towards devotion to turn Athreos into a creature. The only thing is that I don't think the deck has what it takes to turn Athreos into a creature and its still an awful topdeck.
To make him better you could drop the tokens and add in some main deck control elements like Oblivion Ring or Journey to Nowhere. You might also add something like (spit balling) Unruly Mob and Viscera Seer to take advantage of Athreos' return feature but still get value out of creature deaths.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The following link is an invitation to join Pucatrade (card trading service though similar to TCGPLayer). If you follow the link then it awards me with tokens to exchange for actual cards. Thanks! https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
Atheros makes a ton of sense in BW builds. I love him more in BW Martyr/Proc where he makes a wrath effect hilarious. Wrath, they pay to keep the cards from your hand, you proc them back or reload to Mistveil Plains for hawks back into your library.
has anybody tinkered with boros sisters? basically the core sisters in the main soul sisters deck (serra asc, matyr, soul attendent, auriok champ) with burn (lightning helix, lightning bolt, boros charm) and soulfire grand master and path to exile.
having a soft lock with soulfire grandmaster with path to exile on buyback is potent along with lightning helix, lightning bolt or boros charm.
Most of my experience is RW Sisters. I really felt like I needed the burn to give me that little reach to finish games.
I haven't thought about trying Soulfire GM in a RW build. Let me know what you think if you do give a try. I don't have any or I would try it. Do you think she is a 4-of in the deck?
My thoughts compared to mono white
-Has reach due to burn
-A more-flexible sideboard (the Sundering Growth's would have been Wear/Tear but I didn't have any at the time)
-Loses pseudo-card advantage by not having Squad Hawks or Ranger
-Martyr, Serra, and Bolt in opening hand feels terrible (this has happened and it's like...if this was a white card I just win. I've thought about dropping Bolt and just running Charm/Helix in main instead)
SFGM is a 2 of (max 3 but its really stretching it). It wins you the game if it sticks after turn 5 (with or without enough mana for the buyback). If you have the buyback cost online, having a soft lock with path to exile is pretty sweet. Boros Charm on buyback also wins you games.
Primary wins vs tron and a few other similar speed decks are Martyr into ascendant, where the deck is a combo deck in effect. I still favour 4, and have run 3. I have played both Sisters with and without, and Proc plus Norrin to boot.
The equation is always skewed- cutting Martyr yields a semi-proc/semi Martyr deck without enough control to have the inevitability that Proc has vs most decks. You end up with a deck that is half sisters/half proc, whilst the real versions of the deck do better.
Proc - needs 4
Norrin- does not need them at all.
SS.......?? I still say 4, but no definitive answers. When we can beat Tron without 3 or 4 Marytr I will listen to arguments for 0. Everytime I tried it I end up putting them back the moment those tron decks turn up.
Creature (29)
4 Squadron Hawk 2 Archangel of Thune 3 Auriok Champion 4 Serra Ascendant 4 Ranger of Eos 4 Ajani's Pridemate 4 Soul's Attendant 4 Soul Warden
Sorcery (4)
4 Spectral Procession
Instant (3)
3 Path to Exile
Enchantment (1)
1 Honor of the Pure
Land (23)
4 Flagstones of Trokair 4 Windbrisk Heights 1 Mistveil Plains 2 Ghost Quarter 12 Plains
60 Cards
Sideboard (15)
2 Spellskite 1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben 1 Ghostly Prison 2 Rest in Peace 2 Stony Silence 1 Karn, Liberated 1 Rule of Law 1 Kataki, War's Wage 1 Burrenton Forge-Tender 1 Aura of Silence 2 Kor Firewalker
Having not seen the deck in action (no camera time i think), there is no certain way to ascertain how the deck played.
personally however, i wouldn't play 23 lands and Flagstones of Trokair is just weird in a deck / format that doesn't have Armageddon.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
Yeah, I agree. Amazing how Wilt-Leaf Liege has skyrocketed in price too. Looking at the Pro Tour list from this past weekend, I kind of wonder how valuable the Serra Ascendant is in that list without Martyr. I almost feel like it would just be better to splash black and play 4 lingering souls, or perhaps up the Archangel and Honor numbers.
23 lands isn't unusual in Archangel builds. I run 2 Flagstones and 2 Mistveil and it really is excellent at recurring hawks. I'm surprised the list did so well with so few anthems to go with the hawks, but this is a great, great build. Karn is super interesting.
Chalice of the Void is really good against the Pact kill.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
chalice counters your pact as well. but i dont think running it is the best idea.(extremely narrow) aven mind censor and or thalia might be better. i havent had a chance to test it though.
Minion #138
"We are 138!!"
Trade Thread
Promo Count - Lost Count
99% of soul sisters variations play path...not sure where you are reading that nobody plays it...
While some people run a split between the main and the side, just about every plays Path and I don't think anyone here is going to tell you anything other than Path is necessary.
Keep in mind that even with sideboard help, whether or not we beat these decks has more to do with how they run than what we do, and both matchups are incredibly rough. Sadly, there aren't a ton of answers we have available to us (especially if you're mono-w,) so I wouldn't spend too much of my sideboard trying to hurt them. Most of the cards I mentioned are stuff that should be included in your sideboard anyway, because they are great utility answers to lots of decks that can swing games our way.
having a soft lock with soulfire grandmaster with path to exile on buyback is potent along with lightning helix, lightning bolt or boros charm.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
Most of my experience is RW Sisters. I really felt like I needed the burn to give me that little reach to finish games.
4 Arid Mesa
4 Sacred Foundry
13 Plains
Creatures (24)
3 Soul's Attendant
4 Soul Warden
3 Martyr of Sands
4 Serra Ascendant
2 Auriok Champion
4 Ajani's Pridemate
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 Archangel of Thune
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Spectral Procession
3 Stony Silence
2 Sundering Growth
2 Rest in Peace
3 Brave the Elements
1 Chalice of Life
2 Deflecting Palm
2 Immortal Servitude
I haven't thought about trying Soulfire GM in a RW build. Let me know what you think if you do give a try. I don't have any or I would try it. Do you think she is a 4-of in the deck?
My thoughts compared to mono white
-Has reach due to burn
-A more-flexible sideboard (the Sundering Growth's would have been Wear/Tear but I didn't have any at the time)
-Loses pseudo-card advantage by not having Squad Hawks or Ranger
-Martyr, Serra, and Bolt in opening hand feels terrible (this has happened and it's like...if this was a white card I just win. I've thought about dropping Bolt and just running Charm/Helix in main instead)
That's really the trouble with Martyr, she really kind of almost demands a "Mono-white Devotion" kind of list. I splash black, sure, but even then the only cards I've added are also white (Orzhov Charm and Lingering Souls much like your Lightning Helix and Boros Charm).
I think everyone agrees that the major failing of this deck is ability to interact (lack of removal/discard) and lack of reach in the late(r) game. I've tried a few other options but I always wonder if there isn't something better on the horizon, some sweet tech that simply hasn't been tested yet. Given the whole, "Devotion to White" tendency of Martyr I decided to see what else I could find. Honestly, most of the options suck except for Athreos, God of Passage and Ephara, God of the Polis whose only redeeming quality is the card draw which could help this deck. Now Athreos, on the other hand, plays EXTREMELY well with Martyr. How? Well Martyr sacs on command, even with zero cards in hand. With Athreos on the field you could basically sac Martyr once per turn to gain 3 life and force the opponent to choose to lose three simply to stop the "combo". It could be good with Squadron Hawks because you get so many per cast that they really need to pay the 3 life to prevent them from becoming a real nuisance. Also, with Honor of the Pure it helps build up towards devotion to turn Athreos into a creature. The only thing is that I don't think the deck has what it takes to turn Athreos into a creature and its still an awful topdeck.
To make him better you could drop the tokens and add in some main deck control elements like Oblivion Ring or Journey to Nowhere. You might also add something like (spit balling) Unruly Mob and Viscera Seer to take advantage of Athreos' return feature but still get value out of creature deaths.
https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
I have been tinkering with this:
4x Arid Mesa
3x Auriok Champion
2x Boro's Charm
4x Clifftop Retreat
3x Honor of the Pure
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lightning Helix
3x Martyr of Sands
3x Path to Exile
8x Plain
4x Sacred Foundry
4x Serra Ascendant
4x Soul Warden
3x Soulfire Grand Master
4x Squadron Hawk
SFGM is a 2 of (max 3 but its really stretching it). It wins you the game if it sticks after turn 5 (with or without enough mana for the buyback). If you have the buyback cost online, having a soft lock with path to exile is pretty sweet. Boros Charm on buyback also wins you games.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo