Whenever I do my best with the build, it's always on the most basic build, so I hear you.
Like, yeah, you could absolutely do all that spicy stuff with indestructible creatures to beat Death's Shadow under a Worship. Or you could just run Auriok Champion, which is practically as indestructible as anything else against that deck.
Unfortunately for us, most of the innovation in our deck has been done. That doesn't mean we should stop testing and trying it, though! Remember, Amulet Bloom could have been a deck for years before it was and then suddenly existed. Grixis Shadow and Lantern were the same deal. One day, we'll get our day.
Wizards seems to have been experimenting with life gain as of late, but have yet to Delivery anything extraordinary. I have a feeling something good for us is coming though, with the rate they're trying new life gain cards.
Decided to head to a casual LGS modern night this past week. Haven't played in quite a while and went 1-3 losing to Living End, Grixis shadow and some UW control build. Beat another Shadow deck quick with 2 great opening draws. Overall given my subpar build, missing triggers from inexperience, I still had a great night. Much more casual night than most I've been to which was good to jump back in to. I dont have much of a report, but just wanted to pipe up because I'm psyched to be playing again.
Most noted is my lack of Archangel and Auriok Champ. Budget reasons but with reprints Im hoping to be able to fill those out. Hero is fine and got to sneak her out with Windbrisk and got it to run up my SS triggers in a game or two but other than that its pretty meh. Not looking to that as a long term finisher. Martyr is also something I would be looking to cut. In the past I ran 4 looking to quick combo into Ascendent but with only the two, if I didnt have her in my opener she wasnt something I was hoping to topdeck. Might be thinking about this wrong so open to advice on that.
Sideboard was slapped together with some things I had and going into a shop not having played there before. Was actually expecting a lot of Tron but didn't see it floating around. In the Living End games and the loss to Shadow I didn't even sniff anything I sided in. Any all advice welcome!
@nouseforaname: the DS matchup will improve tremendously when you're able to add some Auriok Champions, and you'll get wins out of nowhere once you get your Angels. Good to have to back, and glad you had fun. I enjoy playing even when I don't do so well :cD
Been meaning to share my experience and thoughts about Athreos, god of passage .
I main boarded this card in several months ago. I have played 22 matches with him in. In most matches he did show up. Unfortunately he was never relevant and his ability never triggered. My main reason for including him was for the jund/abzen, DS builds and to hose other decks. The jund match up is still a tough win for me. Against the black decks Athreos is discarded (thoughtseize) from my hand before Im able to use him. The mana cost and the cmc made him take longer to put into play, against these decks.
The games that he did see play (not against Jund) he was unnecessary, because I was already winning.
In my build I run 7-8 spirits (lingering souls, spectral procession), these creatures are anti synergy with Athreos. No body will pay 3 life to put a token in the graveyard. Our deck relies heavily on spirits. The bird version might get very different results, I have not played that version ( I might someday).
3cmc is also a bit of a problem as it leads to awkward decision tree. Do I run the normal SS plan or try deviating into a more robust Bolt for a Sister style. Bolt for a sister style is Athreos in play and then lay down all the one drops and weenies. Trying to recover them as they die at opponents expense.
Trying to force your Opponent to take 3 damage as you sacrifice your Martyr of Sands.
Bolt for a sister style never worked. Modern is too fast for the pieces to fit. If I had the pieces I was already going to win without Athreos' help.
So the decision tree addition is bad and at the wrong turn of the game ( playing at T4-5 not great either).
hen it is in play my opponents are distracted by it and spend time trying to play around it. They even sideboard against it. Athreos is not a blocker and does not prevent my opponent from doing what he would do any way. So at best he wasted my opponents turn as my opponent learns the relevance to the board state.
Athreos is hard to turn into a creature. I played him as an enchantment never expecting him to turn.
The top tier decks dont care about Athreos. Storm, Burn, Amulet Titan, Boggles, Eldrazi (all), taking turns. They just play their game and win.
I like Athreos and I really wished him to work in my builds. He almost seemed helpful in the w/g humans match up and mono G stompy. Both were long drawn out games with board stalls. I credit him for creating the board stall. My opponents never/rarely attacked if I could chump block with him in play, In both cases my opponents waited untill they had Mass go wide damage able to end game at end of combat.
I think Athreos, god of Passage might be better in a build with less tokens.
You'll notice that one list is actually Martyr-Proc.
I don't think you can take much from this, though. Both of those metas featured creature-heavy metas, and what looks like minimal Tron, combo, and control.
FNM 3-1-0
vs
G/w Hatebears D&T 2-0
easy win the creatures added to our life and they had no relevant removal. Went big and wide.
Mardu Burn 0-2
Kept hand 4 lands with cmc 3+ (ranger, spectral prossecion,elspeth), he was fast and played 2 eidlon the revival turn 4. I misplayed and blocked/killed both eidlons with 2/2 spirits. I should have left them on the board as a stall for his deck. I could have played around the eidlons.
G2 mulliganed down to 4 cards. Kept a poor hand and prayed (swamp,Honor, Ascendant, sister). M1 5 lands, m2 1 land & 4 drops, m3 2 off color lands) did not draw a plains till turn 3.
Skred Burn 2-1
g2 board wiped me twice finished with planeswalkers
g3 2 sisters, honor,ranger, martyr,2 lands. GG
Death shadow 2-0
ggs, no problem went high and fast.
had paths in both opening hands and good support.
What would you do?
This scenario occurred.
{edit}
vs:Grix DeathShadow; turn 2 he gets his life down to 11 his turn 3 he has two Island/swamps out, he's played fetchlands and cantrips first two turns. red mana showed game 1 I have plains and flooded strand open 2 paths in hand, Mirrian crusader, elspeth knight errant, ranger no lands. He plays 2 Deaths shadow. I have a lone serra ascendant in play. What would you do? my turn 3 is after his.
I'm going to assume he only had one land left untapped since it was turn three? Depending on what cards he has left, you can try to Path one Death's Shadow on end step (and pay through Stubborn Denial if he tries it), then see if you draw the 3rd mana to cast Mirran, as Mirran is your ticket to the win here. If you don't, then I think you have to Path again on your main phase to avoid it being Stubbed. This is assuming Grixis colors, not Jund. Jund makes the decision tree a little easier because you don't have to play around Stubbo.
Since your mission there is to get to 4 mana (I'm assuming it was 4-mana Elspeth not 6), there's an outside argument for Pathing your own Serra after blocking with it since you're very likely to die before you get to Ranger for any Martyrs to make Serra relevant.
I'm going to assume he only had one land left untapped since it was turn three? Depending on what cards he has left, you can try to Path one Death's Shadow on end step (and pay through Stubborn Denial if he tries it), then see if you draw the 3rd mana to cast Mirran, as Mirran is your ticket to the win here. If you don't, then I think you have to Path again on your main phase to avoid it being Stubbed. This is assuming Grixis colors, not Jund. Jund makes the decision tree a little easier because you don't have to play around Stubbo.
Since your mission there is to get to 4 mana (I'm assuming it was 4-mana Elspeth not 6), there's an outside argument for Pathing your own Serra after blocking with it since you're very likely to die before you get to Ranger for any Martyrs to make Serra relevant.
What I did was on his End Step I pathed the Shadow, resolved then pathed the 2nd Shadow. I considered pathing my Serra Ascendant on his end step with 1 of his Shadows. Then I would be able to cast the Mirran Crusader on my 3rd turn.
I went 2-3 more turns before I drew my third land. Still won, he was out of gas after that.
I just played a Skred Red deck with multiples of Treasure Map. This card is ridiculous in mono decks! Also, its flipped land Treasure Cove isn't legendary! Forget Legion's Landing, this is the Ixalan card to add in! Of anything, SS needs card draw and/or ramp and/or a mana sink and here are all three !
I just played a Skred Red deck with multiples of Treasure Map. This card is ridiculous in mono decks! Also, its flipped land Treasure Cove isn't legendary! Forget Legion's Landing, this is the Ixalan card to add in! Of anything, SS needs card draw and/or ramp and/or a mana sink and here are all three !
Treasure map looks broken. Im not sure how it fits in SS, what to cut and when to play it. Archangel builds can use it more then non Thune decks.
SS ussually finds the land they need eventually and we dont need much 3-4 mana is the sweet spot.The Map is a great card but I wonder if it is too slow?
verses G/W HateBears
2-0
Long drawn out games. there lack of r4emoval means we can just over value there cards. Our cards give us escalating value as the game goes on. There tempo gain is very small against us.
verses G Elves
2-1
fist game no sister came out. Mulliganed once high drops 1 land, kept hand with cat, ascendant,honor,spectral procession, 2 lands.
Lose to pumped up elves.
Game 2+3
Kept hands with sisters, and path, (cat/ascendant). Life gain against elves is insane. Game goes long as he chump blocks until I can fly over him.
He also got 2 essence warden out. I got to over 100 life 3rd game.
Verses Jeski Tempo (St. Traft)
2-0
Jeski seems like an pretty easy win. SS card value beats there counter spells and kill spells. They need to draw anger of the gods
or izzet staticaster . We can hit them with weenies while they wait for there win con to not get chumped. Play around there open mana and try drawing out the counterspells. Try not to flood the board with spirits save some for later after a wipe. Our deck builds value on its self. Each card has good synergy with the next. Our synergy tempo out paces there forced tempo. We can trade our tokens for there value creatures and when we do we gain value. geist of saint traft and spell queller gain us value by killing them during blocks. geist is their first win con, queller gets us a spell back.
I'm feeling good about Treasure Map in 5cmc Thune and/or horse/cat builds. For these builds you'd normally want to run 23 lands, but replace three of the lands with Treasure Map. Ignoring the 5cmc cards, you're playing a 20 land Thune-less deck... scry, scry, scry, until the Treasure Map flips into Treasure Cove and boom you have three free mana to slam a Thune/horse/cat. Next turn that additional land you've been looking for to continue playing is out in the form of Treasure Cove. From there on you have excellent tempo with 5 lands out and a deckful of Archangel of Thunes, Regal Caracals and/or Crested Sunmares...
In slower matchups you can see big mana after a few Treasure Maps have been played out. I sided a Kozilek, Butcher of Truth after I got milled in one turn, twice. Haven't seen a mill deck since then, but I kid you not, I hard cast him against BR Curses, twice over two matches! Hah the surprise was palpable when I slammed down Kozy out of a Soul Sisters deck!
Today I went 3-1.
1. Bant Company. Game 1 was pretty long. My Champion and Pridemate caught Paths. My opp had 3 Knight of the Reliquary. Each 19/19. And I can't find Path or Genesis Chamber to block. Lost.
2. Eldrazi and Taxes. Game 1 win by Blood Moon. Game 2 lost to hand disruption and lack of threats. Game 3 I had the board and found Genesis. Easy.
3. Ad Nauseam. My nightmare. Game 1 I kept aggressive hand with Blood Moon. Win. Game 2 I kept aggressive hand and found sideboard cards. So happy.
4. Merfolks. Game 1 I saved my removal for lodrs. Bid cats and Champions did their things. Game 2 lost to weak hand and explosive start from my opp. Game 3 was long and grindy. I champed with tokens as long as I could. He spent 3 Gutshots for my Sisters. I topdecked Return and kill him on risky backswing.
Like, yeah, you could absolutely do all that spicy stuff with indestructible creatures to beat Death's Shadow under a Worship. Or you could just run Auriok Champion, which is practically as indestructible as anything else against that deck.
Unfortunately for us, most of the innovation in our deck has been done. That doesn't mean we should stop testing and trying it, though! Remember, Amulet Bloom could have been a deck for years before it was and then suddenly existed. Grixis Shadow and Lantern were the same deal. One day, we'll get our day.
10 plains
4 windswept heath
3 windbrisk heights
1 godless shrine
3 ghost quarter
Creatures
4 soul warden
4 soul's attendant
4 serra ascendant
4 ajani's pridemate
2 martyr of sands
3 ranger of eos
2 hero of bladehold
4 path to exile
4 honor of the pure
4 spectral procession
4 lingering souls
1 mark of asylum
2 suppression field
2 blessed alliance
1 oblivion ring
2 sundering growth
2 ghostly prison
2 grafdigger's cage
3 stony silence
Most noted is my lack of Archangel and Auriok Champ. Budget reasons but with reprints Im hoping to be able to fill those out. Hero is fine and got to sneak her out with Windbrisk and got it to run up my SS triggers in a game or two but other than that its pretty meh. Not looking to that as a long term finisher. Martyr is also something I would be looking to cut. In the past I ran 4 looking to quick combo into Ascendent but with only the two, if I didnt have her in my opener she wasnt something I was hoping to topdeck. Might be thinking about this wrong so open to advice on that.
Sideboard was slapped together with some things I had and going into a shop not having played there before. Was actually expecting a lot of Tron but didn't see it floating around. In the Living End games and the loss to Shadow I didn't even sniff anything I sided in. Any all advice welcome!
I main boarded this card in several months ago. I have played 22 matches with him in. In most matches he did show up. Unfortunately he was never relevant and his ability never triggered. My main reason for including him was for the jund/abzen, DS builds and to hose other decks. The jund match up is still a tough win for me. Against the black decks Athreos is discarded (thoughtseize) from my hand before Im able to use him. The mana cost and the cmc made him take longer to put into play, against these decks.
The games that he did see play (not against Jund) he was unnecessary, because I was already winning.
In my build I run 7-8 spirits (lingering souls, spectral procession), these creatures are anti synergy with Athreos. No body will pay 3 life to put a token in the graveyard. Our deck relies heavily on spirits. The bird version might get very different results, I have not played that version ( I might someday).
3cmc is also a bit of a problem as it leads to awkward decision tree. Do I run the normal SS plan or try deviating into a more robust Bolt for a Sister style. Bolt for a sister style is Athreos in play and then lay down all the one drops and weenies. Trying to recover them as they die at opponents expense.
Trying to force your Opponent to take 3 damage as you sacrifice your Martyr of Sands.
Bolt for a sister style never worked. Modern is too fast for the pieces to fit. If I had the pieces I was already going to win without Athreos' help.
So the decision tree addition is bad and at the wrong turn of the game ( playing at T4-5 not great either).
hen it is in play my opponents are distracted by it and spend time trying to play around it. They even sideboard against it. Athreos is not a blocker and does not prevent my opponent from doing what he would do any way. So at best he wasted my opponents turn as my opponent learns the relevance to the board state.
Athreos is hard to turn into a creature. I played him as an enchantment never expecting him to turn.
The top tier decks dont care about Athreos. Storm, Burn, Amulet Titan, Boggles, Eldrazi (all), taking turns. They just play their game and win.
I like Athreos and I really wished him to work in my builds. He almost seemed helpful in the w/g humans match up and mono G stompy. Both were long drawn out games with board stalls. I credit him for creating the board stall. My opponents never/rarely attacked if I could chump block with him in play, In both cases my opponents waited untill they had Mass go wide damage able to end game at end of combat.
I think Athreos, god of Passage might be better in a build with less tokens.
return to the ranks or some other variant seems better vs Athreos.
Anyone getting good results with this deck?
I'm looking for a new deck to try out, something interactive and competitive.
http://mtgtop8.com/archetype?a=214&meta=51&f=MO
You'll notice that one list is actually Martyr-Proc.
I don't think you can take much from this, though. Both of those metas featured creature-heavy metas, and what looks like minimal Tron, combo, and control.
vs
G/w Hatebears D&T 2-0
easy win the creatures added to our life and they had no relevant removal. Went big and wide.
Mardu Burn 0-2
Kept hand 4 lands with cmc 3+ (ranger, spectral prossecion,elspeth), he was fast and played 2 eidlon the revival turn 4. I misplayed and blocked/killed both eidlons with 2/2 spirits. I should have left them on the board as a stall for his deck. I could have played around the eidlons.
G2 mulliganed down to 4 cards. Kept a poor hand and prayed (swamp,Honor, Ascendant, sister). M1 5 lands, m2 1 land & 4 drops, m3 2 off color lands) did not draw a plains till turn 3.
Skred Burn 2-1
g2 board wiped me twice finished with planeswalkers
g3 2 sisters, honor,ranger, martyr,2 lands. GG
Death shadow 2-0
ggs, no problem went high and fast.
had paths in both opening hands and good support.
3 Soul Attendant
3 Soul Warden
3 Serra Ascendant
2 Auriok Champion
3 Ranger of Eos
1 Mikaeus, The Lunarch
4 Ajanis Pridemate
2 Martyr of Sands
1 Monestery Mentor
spells 17
4 Spectral Procession
4 Lingering Souls
4 Honor The Pure
4 Path to exile
1 Elspeth knight errant
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Swamp
10 Plains
2 Windbrisk Heights
1 Godless shrine
4 flooded strand
2 Rest in Peace
3 Stoney Silence
2 Eiddon of Rhetoric
1 Sundering Growth
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Wrath of god
2 blessed Alliance
1 Celestial Purge
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Return to the ranks
This scenario occurred.
{edit}
vs:Grix DeathShadow; turn 2 he gets his life down to 11 his turn 3 he has two Island/swamps out, he's played fetchlands and cantrips first two turns. red mana showed game 1 I have plains and flooded strand open 2 paths in hand, Mirrian crusader, elspeth knight errant, ranger no lands. He plays 2 Deaths shadow. I have a lone serra ascendant in play. What would you do? my turn 3 is after his.
Since your mission there is to get to 4 mana (I'm assuming it was 4-mana Elspeth not 6), there's an outside argument for Pathing your own Serra after blocking with it since you're very likely to die before you get to Ranger for any Martyrs to make Serra relevant.
What I did was on his End Step I pathed the Shadow, resolved then pathed the 2nd Shadow. I considered pathing my Serra Ascendant on his end step with 1 of his Shadows. Then I would be able to cast the Mirran Crusader on my 3rd turn.
I went 2-3 more turns before I drew my third land. Still won, he was out of gas after that.
Treasure map looks broken. Im not sure how it fits in SS, what to cut and when to play it. Archangel builds can use it more then non Thune decks.
SS ussually finds the land they need eventually and we dont need much 3-4 mana is the sweet spot.The Map is a great card but I wonder if it is too slow?
verses G/W HateBears
2-0
Long drawn out games. there lack of r4emoval means we can just over value there cards. Our cards give us escalating value as the game goes on. There tempo gain is very small against us.
verses G Elves
2-1
fist game no sister came out. Mulliganed once high drops 1 land, kept hand with cat, ascendant,honor,spectral procession, 2 lands.
Lose to pumped up elves.
Game 2+3
Kept hands with sisters, and path, (cat/ascendant). Life gain against elves is insane. Game goes long as he chump blocks until I can fly over him.
He also got 2 essence warden out. I got to over 100 life 3rd game.
Verses Jeski Tempo (St. Traft)
2-0
Jeski seems like an pretty easy win. SS card value beats there counter spells and kill spells. They need to draw anger of the gods
or izzet staticaster . We can hit them with weenies while they wait for there win con to not get chumped. Play around there open mana and try drawing out the counterspells. Try not to flood the board with spirits save some for later after a wipe. Our deck builds value on its self. Each card has good synergy with the next. Our synergy tempo out paces there forced tempo. We can trade our tokens for there value creatures and when we do we gain value. geist of saint traft and spell queller gain us value by killing them during blocks. geist is their first win con, queller gets us a spell back.
In slower matchups you can see big mana after a few Treasure Maps have been played out. I sided a Kozilek, Butcher of Truth after I got milled in one turn, twice. Haven't seen a mill deck since then, but I kid you not, I hard cast him against BR Curses, twice over two matches! Hah the surprise was palpable when I slammed down Kozy out of a Soul Sisters deck!
Recently I've been playing with Mardu Norin Sisters. There're plenty of combo decks and Tron deck in my city's meta.
4 Ajani's Pridemate
4 Champion of the Parish
1 Legion Loyalist
3 Norin the Wary
1 Auriok Champion
3 Soul Warden
4 Soul's Attendant
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Archangel of Thune
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
Enchantment: (4)
2 Blood Moon
2 Purphoros, God of the Forge
Artifact: (3)
3 Genesis Chamber
Sorcery: (2)
2 Return to the Ranks
1 Boros Charm
1 Lightning Bolt
2 Sudden Shock
4 Path to Exile
Lands: (20)
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Inspiring Vantage
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
5 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Godless Shrine
3 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Rule of Law
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Harsh Mentor
1 Rest in Peace
2 Slaughter Games
2 Stony Silence
1 Smash to Smithereens
1 Wear // Tear
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Mark of Asylum
1 Selfless Spirit
I simply have to keep couple of Sudden Shock to answer Laboratory Maniac in mainboard. And it also kills almost everything in current meta: Merfolk's Lords, Bob, Snapcaster, Vendilion Clique, affinity stuff, Goblin Electromancer, Goblin Guide, Devoted Druid, Leonin Arbiter, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Tidehollow Sculler, ect.
What do you think of it? Any suggestion?
1. Bant Company. Game 1 was pretty long. My Champion and Pridemate caught Paths. My opp had 3 Knight of the Reliquary. Each 19/19. And I can't find Path or Genesis Chamber to block. Lost.
2. Eldrazi and Taxes. Game 1 win by Blood Moon. Game 2 lost to hand disruption and lack of threats. Game 3 I had the board and found Genesis. Easy.
3. Ad Nauseam. My nightmare. Game 1 I kept aggressive hand with Blood Moon. Win. Game 2 I kept aggressive hand and found sideboard cards. So happy.
4. Merfolks. Game 1 I saved my removal for lodrs. Bid cats and Champions did their things. Game 2 lost to weak hand and explosive start from my opp. Game 3 was long and grindy. I champed with tokens as long as I could. He spent 3 Gutshots for my Sisters. I topdecked Return and kill him on risky backswing.
What are the pros and cons of it compared to the traditional Martyr of Sands/Serra Ascendant lists?
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW