@wilier91: Thank you very much for such a meaningful contribution to the thread. When was the last time you took Balance to a tournament?
Ok, I really hate cluttering the thread with lists but I since I have changed it a little I am very confident with the list its just the SB that needs help. I have a few cards that I feel merit discussion on SB but here is my current list and a brief tournament report:
Round 1 - Doran Junk (2-0)
g1 - Very standard game, he doesn't open with discard and I don't have GG but have 3 creatures suspended and am Able to wipe his board at EOT on turn 4 and take him down to 1 card in hand and 3 lands. Turn 5 Shivan Sand-Mage hits play and removes the rest of the counters from Durkwood Baloth and the game is over shortly after.
g2 - I know what he boards into Chalice of the Void so I bring in Beast Within and we both mull to 6 and keep a hand of all suspenders and lands. He opens with Chalice at 0 and Thoughtseize ... I kept the right hand. He has no pressure and I am able to land a few dorks, but Doran, the Siege Tower threatens to kill me and makes Halberdier a 1/1 ... I have GG and Baloth suspended and 2x Ardent Plea in hand. I stall on the ground and draw Beast Within. EOT I kill his Chalice and then cascade with GG suspended, the game is over quickly.
Round 2 - Titan Bloom (2-1)
g1 - I mulligon down to 3x cards and open a hand of: GG, Sandmage, Reflecting Pool. I could not even find a hand with Fortune to dig and against him I am not keeping a hand without a cascader. My first draw ... Tendo Ice Bridge! Turn 3 I have GG and Sandmage Suspended and draw another land. Turn 5 I rip the cascader and kill all his lands and rip his hand down to 1 card. Its over very shortly.
g2 - I mull to 6 looking for Slaughter Games but keep a great hand with everything I need including GG. Here is the talking point I want to make, I out-thought myself this game as I used to play Titan Bloom and know what kind of hand to keep here, anything with Pact of Negation. He plays Azusa, Lost but Seeking turn 2, then plays Tolaria West and bounces it with a Karoo land. Turn 3 HE DOES NOT TRANSMUTE THE LAND FOR A PACT! I have GG suspended and on turn 4 I decide to cascade and kill one of his Karoo lands, Azusa, and make him discard a few cards ... it surprisingly works. Next turn he plays Summer Bloom into Primeval Titan and I am dead the following turn. Now, had I sacrificed ALL of my lands I may or may not have won, he told me he had more lands in hand but ... there are still a lot of variables. He told me he just missed the play, did I make the correct play even though he didn't transmute the land? Or is Armageddon on myself the right play just in case he doesn't have it? Every sign pointed he did, what would you have done?
g3 - Pretty uneventful. He casts Bloom into a bunch of lands and transmutes Tolaria for pact on his turn 3! Turn 4 rolls around and I cast Slaughter Games naming Titan and he scoops.
Round 3 - Jund (2-0)
g1 - He opens with discard and I kept a pretty good hand. He takes one of my 2 cascaders and I wipe his board on turn 5 and he isn't able to recover after I Balance a second time.
g2 - A really weird game. I keep opening 7 with no cascaders and my hand actually nullifies Inquisition! Naturally he plays Thoughtseize and I suspend Balance. I am able to stall long enough to get the first Balance to resolve and the turn it does I drew another and suspended that as well. He doesn't put a lot of pressure on me and my creatures are bigger than his. He burns a few away and then the second Balance resolves and I sac everything to GG with Baloth and Sandmage suspended. The game is over in short order.
Overall I am LOVING the list, Shriekmaw made an appearance once or twice and those 3x flex spots he seems to fill the role very well. I suppose it could be Beast Within or some draw spells as well but I really like him in the Burn matchup and just overall utility and it can usually kill the biggest threat on the board then remove a counter from GG! The SB is what I am most concerned with and here are my thoughts: Kitchen Finks VS Timely Reinforcements. Finks are great against everything AND would be an additional threat in the control matchup when I board the combo out. But Reinforcements can greatly change the Burn matchup and thats why I like it so much.
Also, is Boom // Bust even necessary? I REALLY like it against Chalice of the Void but in theory, if I board out Balance and put these in, they still have creatures and I am going to clear the board of lands and earliest turn 5 I get a few creatures and am playing catch-up. So what matchups would it legitimately be used in? I was thinking it would be good against anything boarding in Slaughter Games but even then, they still have creatures in play beating you down. Thoughts?
@Pulp_Fiction, please explain us all how can a list be 5c, have suspend creatures other than Greator Gargadon and still be "solid". You're truly horribly wrong and Shriekmaw its probably in its worst time ever in modern, just saying. For me, even 8 BP might be a little too many.
And obviously Im not even gonna comment on lists with 1xBeast Within but 1xAthreos, 1xNorn's Annex, Sphere, Thassa, Mogis, Keranos, man wth????
Let me just throw this out here:
You should probably poo poo others a little less.
Did any of you even try Ghirapur Aether Grid?
No you didn't.
The state of this deck is that it naturally lends itself to brewing because it's a great shell without that (yet to be printed) card that is going to open it up.
If you are in here to be a Spike - you're gonna have a bad time.
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My Modern decks: B/R/G Living End G/R/B G/R Tron R/G U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
@Pulp_Fiction, please explain us all how can a list be 5c, have suspend creatures other than Greator Gargadon and still be "solid". You're truly horribly wrong and Shriekmaw its probably in its worst time ever in modern, just saying. For me, even 8 BP might be a little too many.
And obviously Im not even gonna comment on lists with 1xBeast Within but 1xAthreos, 1xNorn's Annex, Sphere, Thassa, Mogis, Keranos, man wth????
Let me just throw this out here:
You should probably poo poo others a little less.
Did any of you even try Ghirapur Aether Grid?
No you didn't.
The state of this deck is that it naturally lends itself to brewing because it's a great shell without that (yet to be printed) card that is going to open it up.
If you are in here to be a Spike - you're gonna have a bad time.
Lol, I've been lurking on this thread for a loooong time and I've had the deck together even longer. That sort of response is what I have come to expect when someone posts their brew.
As others have said the cascade --> Balance is an extremely powerful shell and there are so many ways to try and take advantage of it that it really is very hard to parse what direction is best in the current meta. Living End found their payoff in cyclers which are so synergistic as dig + Combo pieces that it has become a real contender. Balance isn't at that level yet but it doesn't mean it wont be at some point or with the right build. I continue to brew with the deck trying out different directions are then seeing how far I can push them and I truly think that people trying those different strategies is what will eventually coalesce into a robust and powerful build.
So please don't be to negative to the brewers. Sometimes you might be surprised at what they come up with.
TY sir, people that actually play this deck should be rewarded a little. Now, what I posted earlier about discussion of this deck ... its just not possible because every 4-6 posts another idiot posts a borderpost list with the same cards but some new planeswalkers and ... nothing. I am actually done with posting in this thread. I took an hour of my time to post a list that went 3-1 and 3-0-1 in consecutive weeks followed by tournament reports.
It is very apparent people just want to post a random list with posts and say "this is good" and I can't get any real discussion going. Its sad since the deck is pretty good but .. fair enough. I at least tried.
Edit at miguel89: He seems to actually play this deck for real and have tournament experience. While I do and don't agree with what he is talking about, at least he has something to say, and since I have never tested his list as is, it could be great in the right meta.
TY sir, people that actually play this deck should be rewarded a little. Now, what I posted earlier about discussion of this deck ... its just not possible because every 4-6 posts another idiot posts a borderpost list with the same cards but some new planeswalkers and ... nothing. I am actually done with posting in this thread. I took an hour of my time to post a list that went 3-1 and 3-0-1 in consecutive weeks followed by tournament reports.
It is very apparent people just want to post a random list with posts and say "this is good" and I can't get any real discussion going. Its sad since the deck is pretty good but .. fair enough. I at least tried.
Edit at miguel89: He seems to actually play this deck for real and have tournament experience. While I do and don't agree with what he is talking about, at least he has something to say, and since I have never tested his list as is, it could be great in the right meta.
If that was somehow aimed at me, I would point out that my "idiot post a borderpost list" made it to top 8 in Ohio states this year. Much farther then your list has managed. Just sayin.
Heres another stupid borderpost list, also much more successful then yours. That being said, I like your list in some ways, but you're being an ********, and I will call you out on it.
Restore Balance
Robert Garza
14th Place at StarCityGames.com Premier IQ on 5/17/2015
Modern
I still feel that 8 cascade spells are enough so I dont see any reason to play black. And tutor's are really slow.
You need to be sure that every single card will make you get back in the game
Another thing is that you need to topdeck really well so suspend creatures are absolutely out of question in my opinion.
I very much agree with this. One of the biggest things i've had my eye out for is a good spell to help filter our draws.
Currently I am on the Thassa + Thieves' Fortune plan. I only want eight cascade cards but there needs to be a way to dig to them if needed as that dig will get you to a win condition later as well instead of a dead cascade draw.
I have also tried Tezz plan and found it quite effective but since your skewed towards black which means white needs to be minor and you end up wanting dread as a cascader and start playing beast within to enable it...
Some cards I feel that should be kept in mind for the deck:
This is against my better judgment but you seem to be misinterpreting what I said. The reason I said "another idiot posts a borderpost list" is because thats what happens. There are no relevant posts, someone makes a legit post, asking questions, talking about cards, they may get a response. Then some idiot, not "idiot borderposts" posts a list that has borderposts that has been talked about 20x in the thread with new planeswalkers and ... wow, whole new deck. You are not an idiot for playing borderposts, just another idiot chooses to post a list, always with posts and doesn't explain any card or justification for why they run those 75.
@dragoaskani: Yes, I am being as ass because I want real responses. I used to post on mtgthesource and they have no modern so I am forced here. It makes me sad that I spend 2ish hours writing my tournament reports for a deck and not one response to either. About Finks, Moon, anything, nothing. But people are happy to post another list that looks like ... every other thing people who have actually read the thread have seen before.
@wilier91: Twin is a decent matchup, you board in 4x Slaughter Games and g1 wait for them to go off, the longer the game goes the better your creatures get. Even Beast Within is great against them. Against a competent opponent, the games can go long when they know what ur playing but ... u have game against them, know when to use instants. And against control with lots of counters, I board the whole combo out. This works because everytime, they have to board in counters waiting on Restore Balance. It keeps them in check. They assume Violent Outburst into combo and have to deal with that. Even though it is boarded out, they have to be ready for it, u can even keep in 2-3 Outburst and 1 Balance, but it keeps them in check.
And to the person who hated on suspenders, why? I hate posting in these forums, but they are the best modern forums there are. I cut down Borderpost lists because we have seen them before. How about, next time you post a list, follow it up with tournament experience and a justification for the cards. Thats all I ask from "another idiot posting a borderpost list", show results against a wide range of decks and how you avoid affinity hate. Make people understand why that list is better. Don't just post because u had fun with it on cockatrice or workstation.
And btw, this is to everyone: Im not a moderator but this thread is in the Developing COMPETITIVE Modern section, not budget section.
What you just said right here is literal woo. Woo, and I don't mean Travis Woo. Just Woo. Any Modern deck can move around the forums based on the criteria as set forth.
Now I know that this isn't in the budget Modern thread, but I feel that I have to ask whether or not this deck can be built and successful (albeit not as successful as a non-budget veriation) on a budget? Obviously, I would have to go the Borderpost route, but I'm stripped for cash and want to get out of mono red.
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There has been a noticeable increase in flaming/trolling happening in this thread. Please keep the discussions on the cards and not the people at all times. If there are any future problems, please report the post(s) in question rather than handling it yourself.
-Torpf
@torpf: I do apologize, I am just trying to get some real discussion going, and it has worked a little.
@wilier91: The Twin matchup has not been that bad, however I only have a few tournament matches and playtested very little, under 20 games but it has been a fairly even matchup. I would say its in their favor but ... maybe a 40/60 matchup, really depends on how well we both draw. The tap effects can matter but don't forget Simian Spirit Guide to avoid those mana problems. However, I will strongly disagree that Modern hates out my suspenders since I almost always have the biggest creatures on the firld. 4/1 first strikers are ... pretty nasty, and Slaughter Games almost always hits Cryptic Command against general midrange Uxx control. The creatures are good, especially GG which is awesome since while being attacked by smaller ones, they keep the counter up for the 9/7 because they have no answer. Late game you just keep casting threats, all these creatures are serious threats, especially Sand Mage if I have something suspended.
@spitlebug: The only reason I don't like those creatures are they sit in ur hand pre-Balance. The more I think about it I do like Finks and Fulminator, while not great threats, I like them. Now, I like Hooting Mandrils but if ur playing against something with Goyf, even after removing ur yard, will he be bigger? I don't think anyone disagrees Tasigur is the better card but, how have the monkeys been working out in testing? I have considered playing both but the deck definitely has to be built around running those creatures.
@CavalryWolfPack: The budget borderpost list is SUPER fun and can be built for under $80. Don't expect to win ... at all. However, if you go that route, I had very positive experiences with Perplex and Goblin Charbelcher BUT, neither of those are very popular. You can also throw in random walkers that have been discussed to death and any are fine IE whatever is in ur collection. U will not win any tourneys with it and will struggle against U control variants but it is a fun deck. Pick up some Bow of Nylea and sleeve it up.
On another note, I have been playtesting against Burn with the suspender version and noticed how great the Timely Reinforcements was in that matchup but ... basically irrelevant in nothing else. So I started to think if there was any way to make the Uxx Control matchup better and the only thing I could think about was running Troll Ascetic or Thrun, the Last Troll. I wanted to run Finks and did pick a few up but ... they aren't that good against burn, just gives them a target for Searing Blaze and is not so hot in the U control matchups. So what card would be devastating to burn that you could cascade into and would not take up multiple SB slots? The only thing I could come up with is Circle of Protection: Red. The burn matchup is so abysmal and even though they have maindeck cards that negate it, they have to draw them. Thus far in my testing it has yielded decent results, you board out Balance and 2x Plea for 1 COP Red, and 4x Volcanic Fallout and its not to bad. When combined with Shriekmaw to neutralize the early threats, its better than I expected. Which is great because it frees up 3x crucial slots in the SB to dedicate to the Trolls I mentioned for the U control matchup. Thoughts?
I am putting together a Post variant, and maybe you can help me with the list, tell me what you think.
I was thinking no Greater Gargadon, the PWs could be the wincon. Ajani Vengeant, Kiora, the Crashing Wave and Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas are probably the best.
They cost only 4 mana, can protect themselves and finish the game.
Anyone tried Far // Away - 1U to bounce a creature seems like a good tempo play. Also card disadvantege - hooray!
Also, Soul Spike - looks like a good SB against burn.
@pulp_fiction I'm not trying to win a GP. I'm just looking to play in a store event. I am more of a casual modern player, only on the grounds that not a whole lot of local stores offer modern. Everybody I play with plays conpetitive and, albeit very rarely, tier 1 decks. This deck looks like it has some great game against the decks I typically play against. I'll have to try it out I guess
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@miguel_89: Yeah, just realized that Far // Away is actually cascaded into. I disagree that dropping GG is a bad idea. I don't feel like having a creature for their Path to Exile. A controlish version should be able to hang with the PWs until they die.
I was thinking 3xKiora, the Crashing Wave, 3xAjani Vengeant and 1xSarkhan Unbroken for finishers.
I was testing a version with 12x Borderposts (WU, RG and GW)and 15 Lands (6 fetches, 5 basics, 2 shocks and 2xGemstone Mine).
People are dismissing the borderpost version without testing. It is more powerful on game one.
Also, you can side them out for Karoos if you see the hate coming. It is backbreaking.
@spitlebug: The only reason I don't like those creatures are they sit in ur hand pre-Balance. The more I think about it I do like Finks and Fulminator, while not great threats, I like them. Now, I like Hooting Mandrils but if ur playing against something with Goyf, even after removing ur yard, will he be bigger? I don't think anyone disagrees Tasigur is the better card but, how have the monkeys been working out in testing? I have considered playing both but the deck definitely has to be built around running those creatures.
Tasigur is by far the better creature, but in what is usually only a splash colour (B) for the Borderpost version, Hootie seems like the more viable choice in that is is basically G to cast and not on splash. So it is a thought. The downside is of course is always: Dies to removal/not resilient.
For the same reasons I want to stay away from Tasigur is the same reason I want to move my build away from Perplex.
I saw a Jund variant of a Post build. It's possible, but being a veteran LE Player I am reeeaaalllyy hesitant on running Demonic Dread. It basically requires you to run the Jund fetches and run a singleton Dryad Arbor in the main. Dryad Arbor can hurt the game plan in very obvious ways, being both a land and a creature.
Still, we run into the problem of having G/R and R/B Borderposts, but no B/G Bordeposts to fix correctly. The same goes for traditional W/U builds with Splash for Violent Outburst.
For those of you that maybe missed it, the optimal number of:
Lands = 12
Posts = 16
Cascaders = 8+
I did the hypergemetric modeling on it. You can find it in this thread somewhere. It even takes into account Mulligans.
I don't suggest running those numbers however. Realistic from testing:
Lands = 13
Posts = 10-12
Cascaders = 8
Seems correct. I cut posts in favour of threats and finishers or utility/dig cards. Simply put, you have 23-25 mana sources (not including SSG) and the deck engine which puts you shy of actually getting there with a few bad top decks. More threats = live top decks or board supremacy post balances.
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My Modern decks: B/R/G Living End G/R/B G/R Tron R/G U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
I'm new to this deck and was planning on building this as my third deck for fun times at FNM. As such, I'm trying to keep it to a low budget (terramorphic expanse land base). I already have the Blood Moons so this list would be quite affordable. Any thoughts/feedback on this Idyllic Tutor version (it is a variation of a list I saw somewhere else)?
I'm new to this deck and was planning on building this as my third deck for fun times at FNM. As such, I'm trying to keep it to a low budget (terramorphic expanse land base). I already have the Blood Moons so this list would be quite affordable. Any thoughts/feedback on this Idyllic Tutor version (it is a variation of a list I saw somewhere else)?
Tutor is pretty good. If you run tutor, you run March of the Machines as a finisher since you can tutor it up. You have to be careful with March, since a Balance will wipe you out. Thassa is also playable.
Cut some posts, add more threats.
Tezz, AoB will get you 5/5's if you want to run him. A couple 5/5's tango with Anglers and Tasigur and Rhino just fine.
Hello guys, I'm new to this deck and I played a few games with it. It's pretty fun, but I have some questions about the cascade spells (Violent Outburstand Demonic Dread)
1.Can I play Violent Outburst at the end of the oponent's turn to cascade into Restore Balance and play it, even if it's sorcery spell?
Ok, I really hate cluttering the thread with lists but I since I have changed it a little I am very confident with the list its just the SB that needs help. I have a few cards that I feel merit discussion on SB but here is my current list and a brief tournament report:
4x Violent Outburst
4x Ardent Plea
3x Restore Balance
2x Thieves' Fortune
4x Greater Gargadon
4x Shivan Sand-Mage
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Keldon Harberdier
4x Durkwood Baloth
3x Shriekmaw
4x Arid Mesa
4x City of Brass
4x Gemstone Mine
3x Reflecting Pool
2x Tendo Ice Bridge
1x Steam Vents
1x Blood Crypt
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Stomping Ground
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Temple Garden
1x Mountain
Sideboard
4x Volcanic Fallout
4x Slaughter Games
3x Timely Reinforcements
3x Beast Within
1x Boom // Bust
Round 1 - Doran Junk (2-0)
g1 - Very standard game, he doesn't open with discard and I don't have GG but have 3 creatures suspended and am Able to wipe his board at EOT on turn 4 and take him down to 1 card in hand and 3 lands. Turn 5 Shivan Sand-Mage hits play and removes the rest of the counters from Durkwood Baloth and the game is over shortly after.
g2 - I know what he boards into Chalice of the Void so I bring in Beast Within and we both mull to 6 and keep a hand of all suspenders and lands. He opens with Chalice at 0 and Thoughtseize ... I kept the right hand. He has no pressure and I am able to land a few dorks, but Doran, the Siege Tower threatens to kill me and makes Halberdier a 1/1 ... I have GG and Baloth suspended and 2x Ardent Plea in hand. I stall on the ground and draw Beast Within. EOT I kill his Chalice and then cascade with GG suspended, the game is over quickly.
Round 2 - Titan Bloom (2-1)
g1 - I mulligon down to 3x cards and open a hand of: GG, Sandmage, Reflecting Pool. I could not even find a hand with Fortune to dig and against him I am not keeping a hand without a cascader. My first draw ... Tendo Ice Bridge! Turn 3 I have GG and Sandmage Suspended and draw another land. Turn 5 I rip the cascader and kill all his lands and rip his hand down to 1 card. Its over very shortly.
g2 - I mull to 6 looking for Slaughter Games but keep a great hand with everything I need including GG. Here is the talking point I want to make, I out-thought myself this game as I used to play Titan Bloom and know what kind of hand to keep here, anything with Pact of Negation. He plays Azusa, Lost but Seeking turn 2, then plays Tolaria West and bounces it with a Karoo land. Turn 3 HE DOES NOT TRANSMUTE THE LAND FOR A PACT! I have GG suspended and on turn 4 I decide to cascade and kill one of his Karoo lands, Azusa, and make him discard a few cards ... it surprisingly works. Next turn he plays Summer Bloom into Primeval Titan and I am dead the following turn. Now, had I sacrificed ALL of my lands I may or may not have won, he told me he had more lands in hand but ... there are still a lot of variables. He told me he just missed the play, did I make the correct play even though he didn't transmute the land? Or is Armageddon on myself the right play just in case he doesn't have it? Every sign pointed he did, what would you have done?
g3 - Pretty uneventful. He casts Bloom into a bunch of lands and transmutes Tolaria for pact on his turn 3! Turn 4 rolls around and I cast Slaughter Games naming Titan and he scoops.
Round 3 - Jund (2-0)
g1 - He opens with discard and I kept a pretty good hand. He takes one of my 2 cascaders and I wipe his board on turn 5 and he isn't able to recover after I Balance a second time.
g2 - A really weird game. I keep opening 7 with no cascaders and my hand actually nullifies Inquisition! Naturally he plays Thoughtseize and I suspend Balance. I am able to stall long enough to get the first Balance to resolve and the turn it does I drew another and suspended that as well. He doesn't put a lot of pressure on me and my creatures are bigger than his. He burns a few away and then the second Balance resolves and I sac everything to GG with Baloth and Sandmage suspended. The game is over in short order.
Overall I am LOVING the list, Shriekmaw made an appearance once or twice and those 3x flex spots he seems to fill the role very well. I suppose it could be Beast Within or some draw spells as well but I really like him in the Burn matchup and just overall utility and it can usually kill the biggest threat on the board then remove a counter from GG! The SB is what I am most concerned with and here are my thoughts: Kitchen Finks VS Timely Reinforcements. Finks are great against everything AND would be an additional threat in the control matchup when I board the combo out. But Reinforcements can greatly change the Burn matchup and thats why I like it so much.
Also, is Boom // Bust even necessary? I REALLY like it against Chalice of the Void but in theory, if I board out Balance and put these in, they still have creatures and I am going to clear the board of lands and earliest turn 5 I get a few creatures and am playing catch-up. So what matchups would it legitimately be used in? I was thinking it would be good against anything boarding in Slaughter Games but even then, they still have creatures in play beating you down. Thoughts?
3 Greater Gargadon
2 Mistvein Borderpost
4 Wildfield Borderpost
2 Veinfire Borderpost
4 Firewild Borderpost
4 Fieldmist Borderpost
1 Haunted Plate Mail
1 Bow of Nylea
4 Violent Outburst
2 Idyllic Tutor
4 Restore Balance
2 Timely Reinforcements
4 Ardent Plea
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Blood Moon
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Ral Zarek
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Blood Moon
2 Beast Within
3 Ricochet Trap
2 Slaughter Games
2 Firespout
Let me just throw this out here:
You should probably poo poo others a little less.
Did any of you even try Ghirapur Aether Grid?
No you didn't.
The state of this deck is that it naturally lends itself to brewing because it's a great shell without that (yet to be printed) card that is going to open it up.
If you are in here to be a Spike - you're gonna have a bad time.
My Modern decks:
B/R/G Living End G/R/B
G/R Tron R/G
U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U
R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
Lol, I've been lurking on this thread for a loooong time and I've had the deck together even longer. That sort of response is what I have come to expect when someone posts their brew.
As others have said the cascade --> Balance is an extremely powerful shell and there are so many ways to try and take advantage of it that it really is very hard to parse what direction is best in the current meta. Living End found their payoff in cyclers which are so synergistic as dig + Combo pieces that it has become a real contender. Balance isn't at that level yet but it doesn't mean it wont be at some point or with the right build. I continue to brew with the deck trying out different directions are then seeing how far I can push them and I truly think that people trying those different strategies is what will eventually coalesce into a robust and powerful build.
So please don't be to negative to the brewers. Sometimes you might be surprised at what they come up with.
Stay classy yall i'm back to munching popcorn =P
GUGEdric, Spymaster of Trest - Elfball
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic- Doomsday!
RWUEphara, God of the Polis - Blink + Control
GBGGlissa, the Traitor - Stax & Lands
URGMaelstrom Wanderer - Goodstuff RUG
RGWMayael the Anima - Timmy
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher - The One Hit Wonder
RGWMarath, Will of the Wild - Old-school Enchantress Hate
RWRAurelia, the Warleader - Equipment Aggro
GGGReki, the History of Kamigawa - Legends + Banding
UBRSedris, the Traitor King - Creatures with : Ability
BUBPhenax, God of Deception - Mill
*Sidenote, I specifically excluded infinite combos from all these decks with the exception of Marath and the squirrel nest + Earthcraft combo.
Looking for something Aggressive in modern? Try - BR Aggro
It is very apparent people just want to post a random list with posts and say "this is good" and I can't get any real discussion going. Its sad since the deck is pretty good but .. fair enough. I at least tried.
Edit at miguel89: He seems to actually play this deck for real and have tournament experience. While I do and don't agree with what he is talking about, at least he has something to say, and since I have never tested his list as is, it could be great in the right meta.
If that was somehow aimed at me, I would point out that my "idiot post a borderpost list" made it to top 8 in Ohio states this year. Much farther then your list has managed. Just sayin.
A link for your viewing pleasure. http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/222192
Heres another stupid borderpost list, also much more successful then yours. That being said, I like your list in some ways, but you're being an ********, and I will call you out on it.
Restore Balance
Robert Garza
14th Place at StarCityGames.com Premier IQ on 5/17/2015
Modern
3 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Forest
2 Mountain
3 Plains
4 Arid Mesa
4 Fieldmist Borderpost
4 Firewild Borderpost
4 Mistvein Borderpost
4 Veinfire Borderpost
4 Wildfield Borderpost
4 Ardent Plea
1 March of the Machines
4 Violent Outburst
2 Demonic Dread
3 Restore Balance
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Rhox War Monk
2 Ghostly Prison
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Restore Balance
I very much agree with this. One of the biggest things i've had my eye out for is a good spell to help filter our draws.
Currently I am on the Thassa + Thieves' Fortune plan. I only want eight cascade cards but there needs to be a way to dig to them if needed as that dig will get you to a win condition later as well instead of a dead cascade draw.
I have also tried Tezz plan and found it quite effective but since your skewed towards black which means white needs to be minor and you end up wanting dread as a cascader and start playing beast within to enable it...
Some cards I feel that should be kept in mind for the deck:
Scepter of Dominance
Bow of Nylea
Culling Scales + Indestructible stuffs
Vraska the unseen
Aforementioned Ghirapur Aether Grid As it can also kill creatures which is awesome.
Vendilion Clique
Lingering Souls
Trinisphere
Ghostly Prison
GUGEdric, Spymaster of Trest - Elfball
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic- Doomsday!
RWUEphara, God of the Polis - Blink + Control
GBGGlissa, the Traitor - Stax & Lands
URGMaelstrom Wanderer - Goodstuff RUG
RGWMayael the Anima - Timmy
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher - The One Hit Wonder
RGWMarath, Will of the Wild - Old-school Enchantress Hate
RWRAurelia, the Warleader - Equipment Aggro
GGGReki, the History of Kamigawa - Legends + Banding
UBRSedris, the Traitor King - Creatures with : Ability
BUBPhenax, God of Deception - Mill
*Sidenote, I specifically excluded infinite combos from all these decks with the exception of Marath and the squirrel nest + Earthcraft combo.
Looking for something Aggressive in modern? Try - BR Aggro
@dragoaskani: Yes, I am being as ass because I want real responses. I used to post on mtgthesource and they have no modern so I am forced here. It makes me sad that I spend 2ish hours writing my tournament reports for a deck and not one response to either. About Finks, Moon, anything, nothing. But people are happy to post another list that looks like ... every other thing people who have actually read the thread have seen before.
@wilier91: Twin is a decent matchup, you board in 4x Slaughter Games and g1 wait for them to go off, the longer the game goes the better your creatures get. Even Beast Within is great against them. Against a competent opponent, the games can go long when they know what ur playing but ... u have game against them, know when to use instants. And against control with lots of counters, I board the whole combo out. This works because everytime, they have to board in counters waiting on Restore Balance. It keeps them in check. They assume Violent Outburst into combo and have to deal with that. Even though it is boarded out, they have to be ready for it, u can even keep in 2-3 Outburst and 1 Balance, but it keeps them in check.
And to the person who hated on suspenders, why? I hate posting in these forums, but they are the best modern forums there are. I cut down Borderpost lists because we have seen them before. How about, next time you post a list, follow it up with tournament experience and a justification for the cards. Thats all I ask from "another idiot posting a borderpost list", show results against a wide range of decks and how you avoid affinity hate. Make people understand why that list is better. Don't just post because u had fun with it on cockatrice or workstation.
What you just said right here is literal woo. Woo, and I don't mean Travis Woo. Just Woo. Any Modern deck can move around the forums based on the criteria as set forth.
Any. Modern. Deck.
My Modern decks:
B/R/G Living End G/R/B
G/R Tron R/G
U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U
R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
-Torpf
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
@wilier91: The Twin matchup has not been that bad, however I only have a few tournament matches and playtested very little, under 20 games but it has been a fairly even matchup. I would say its in their favor but ... maybe a 40/60 matchup, really depends on how well we both draw. The tap effects can matter but don't forget Simian Spirit Guide to avoid those mana problems. However, I will strongly disagree that Modern hates out my suspenders since I almost always have the biggest creatures on the firld. 4/1 first strikers are ... pretty nasty, and Slaughter Games almost always hits Cryptic Command against general midrange Uxx control. The creatures are good, especially GG which is awesome since while being attacked by smaller ones, they keep the counter up for the 9/7 because they have no answer. Late game you just keep casting threats, all these creatures are serious threats, especially Sand Mage if I have something suspended.
@spitlebug: The only reason I don't like those creatures are they sit in ur hand pre-Balance. The more I think about it I do like Finks and Fulminator, while not great threats, I like them. Now, I like Hooting Mandrils but if ur playing against something with Goyf, even after removing ur yard, will he be bigger? I don't think anyone disagrees Tasigur is the better card but, how have the monkeys been working out in testing? I have considered playing both but the deck definitely has to be built around running those creatures.
@CavalryWolfPack: The budget borderpost list is SUPER fun and can be built for under $80. Don't expect to win ... at all. However, if you go that route, I had very positive experiences with Perplex and Goblin Charbelcher BUT, neither of those are very popular. You can also throw in random walkers that have been discussed to death and any are fine IE whatever is in ur collection. U will not win any tourneys with it and will struggle against U control variants but it is a fun deck. Pick up some Bow of Nylea and sleeve it up.
On another note, I have been playtesting against Burn with the suspender version and noticed how great the Timely Reinforcements was in that matchup but ... basically irrelevant in nothing else. So I started to think if there was any way to make the Uxx Control matchup better and the only thing I could think about was running Troll Ascetic or Thrun, the Last Troll. I wanted to run Finks and did pick a few up but ... they aren't that good against burn, just gives them a target for Searing Blaze and is not so hot in the U control matchups. So what card would be devastating to burn that you could cascade into and would not take up multiple SB slots? The only thing I could come up with is Circle of Protection: Red. The burn matchup is so abysmal and even though they have maindeck cards that negate it, they have to draw them. Thus far in my testing it has yielded decent results, you board out Balance and 2x Plea for 1 COP Red, and 4x Volcanic Fallout and its not to bad. When combined with Shriekmaw to neutralize the early threats, its better than I expected. Which is great because it frees up 3x crucial slots in the SB to dedicate to the Trolls I mentioned for the U control matchup. Thoughts?
I am putting together a Post variant, and maybe you can help me with the list, tell me what you think.
I was thinking no Greater Gargadon, the PWs could be the wincon.
Ajani Vengeant, Kiora, the Crashing Wave and Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas are probably the best.
They cost only 4 mana, can protect themselves and finish the game.
Anyone tried Far // Away - 1U to bounce a creature seems like a good tempo play. Also card disadvantege - hooray!
Also, Soul Spike - looks like a good SB against burn.
Edit: Patrician's Scorn is great against Stony Silence. And it's free.
What is the mix you like of Oblivion Ring, Dismember and Beast Within?
I am a little worried about the 3/3 beast token. But it is an instant... so good against control.
Thanks!
I was thinking 3xKiora, the Crashing Wave, 3xAjani Vengeant and 1xSarkhan Unbroken for finishers.
The control part could be 4xBeast Within, 4xDismember and 2xResounding Wave.
I was testing a version with 12x Borderposts (WU, RG and GW)and 15 Lands (6 fetches, 5 basics, 2 shocks and 2xGemstone Mine).
People are dismissing the borderpost version without testing. It is more powerful on game one.
Also, you can side them out for Karoos if you see the hate coming. It is backbreaking.
Tasigur is by far the better creature, but in what is usually only a splash colour (B) for the Borderpost version, Hootie seems like the more viable choice in that is is basically G to cast and not on splash. So it is a thought. The downside is of course is always: Dies to removal/not resilient.
For the same reasons I want to stay away from Tasigur is the same reason I want to move my build away from Perplex.
I saw a Jund variant of a Post build. It's possible, but being a veteran LE Player I am reeeaaalllyy hesitant on running Demonic Dread. It basically requires you to run the Jund fetches and run a singleton Dryad Arbor in the main. Dryad Arbor can hurt the game plan in very obvious ways, being both a land and a creature.
Still, we run into the problem of having G/R and R/B Borderposts, but no B/G Bordeposts to fix correctly. The same goes for traditional W/U builds with Splash for Violent Outburst.
For those of you that maybe missed it, the optimal number of:
Lands = 12
Posts = 16
Cascaders = 8+
I did the hypergemetric modeling on it. You can find it in this thread somewhere. It even takes into account Mulligans.
I don't suggest running those numbers however. Realistic from testing:
Lands = 13
Posts = 10-12
Cascaders = 8
Seems correct. I cut posts in favour of threats and finishers or utility/dig cards. Simply put, you have 23-25 mana sources (not including SSG) and the deck engine which puts you shy of actually getting there with a few bad top decks. More threats = live top decks or board supremacy post balances.
My Modern decks:
B/R/G Living End G/R/B
G/R Tron R/G
U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U
R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
2 Ajani Vengeant
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Creature
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Greater Gargadon
Artifact
4 Wildfield Borderpost
2 Veinfire Borderpost
4 Firewild Borderpost
4 Fieldmist Borderpost
2 Mistvein Borderpost
1 Haunted Plate Mail
4 Violent Outburst
Enchantment
4 Ardent Plea
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Blood Moon
Sorcery
2 Idyllic Tutor
4 Restore Balance
2 Lingering Souls
Land
4 Terramorphic Expanse
2 Evolving Wilds
1 Island
1 Forest
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
It can be bounced back before balancing.
Why do you think no one runs Rift Bolt? I am curious.
Also, what do you think of Glen Elendra Archmage on the SB replacing the Ricochet Trap?
Tutor is pretty good. If you run tutor, you run March of the Machines as a finisher since you can tutor it up. You have to be careful with March, since a Balance will wipe you out. Thassa is also playable.
Cut some posts, add more threats.
Tezz, AoB will get you 5/5's if you want to run him. A couple 5/5's tango with Anglers and Tasigur and Rhino just fine.
Quite a few people have played Rift Bolt. It's not my preferred tech, but you usually see it in no-post variants.
Oroboro is a non-bo since having more cards in hand is bad, and being non basic is also a huge detractor.
I would actually try Glen Alendra, but my gut feeling is that Ricochet Trap is better.
FYI, you can hardcast trap...
My Modern decks:
B/R/G Living End G/R/B
G/R Tron R/G
U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U
R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
1.Can I play Violent Outburst at the end of the oponent's turn to cascade into Restore Balance and play it, even if it's sorcery spell?
2.Can be Demonic Dread and Violent Outburst played if I, even oponent, doesn't have a creature on the battlefield?
Thank's for all the replies and advices