@Jagoob to be honest I think harms way is better than refraction trap but sadly it cost one
Yesterday I test again my deck vs Abzan classic and to be honest the match is still 50/50 if I dontt draw the violwnt outburst. Tarmo is insanely strong against us.
Is it the land destruction is the better way for this deck? Just my opinion though
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
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Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierach not active Jund Tarmoless not active
DnT White
Living End Jund Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpost not active U/W Titan Control not active Mardu Nahiri/Control not active
I sided in Rest in Peace and Suppression Field, sided out 1 Balance and a Beast Within.
Can you explain why you sideboarded in this way? how would you play your cascade spells when you don't know if they will result in rest in peace/suppression field or restore balance? Do you just cast them as soon as possible and if it is a balance just shuffle it back in again? I'm a bit sceptical towards losing the consistency of getting the balance if the other card doesn't straight up win the matchup.
Each card has a good use against the deck.
Rest in Peace - kills their combo
Suppression Field - makes their combo harder
Restore Balance - Wrath/Armageddon effects
Looking at it this way, RiP is obviously the bomb against them, but if that resolves they can still hardcast guys every turn for 5 mana or so, and they're nice bodies. We're a control deck at heart, with a slow clock and a low threat density, so I don't think we can deal with a 3/4 or 4/4 (or whatever those cycling clowns are) every turn if we lose the Wrath option.
Suppression Field was helpful in slowing them down. For 1W it's not nearly as good as RiP against them, but it's still helps a lot. If he decides to cycle anyway, even with RiP (perhaps to find a cascader to just Wrath my board with Living End), it costs him 2 extra mana. So the extra hate isn't totally redundant.
I think my reasoning for bringing in both hate cards was twofold: First, without regarding the cascades, that's twice the chance to draw the hate in the opening hand. It's actually castable so drawing it doesn't hurt us. Second, if I side out all 3 Balances, then I only have one target in the whole deck, rendering every cascader but the first useless.
If I keep in some number of Balances, I'm taking the chance to not hit the card I want, but every card is useful to hit. I was always sure (if Balance was a possibility) that if I hit Balance, it would have been profitable. With stuff like Thassa and Theives' Fortune, I have the possibility to sort my cascade targets to the bottom, and by process of elimination I can know which ones are left/possible to hit.
This was my first time sideboarding like this against Living End. I'm still not sure if I like it, but I would try it again.
@Jagoob to be honest I think harms way is better than refraction trap but sadly it cost one
Yesterday I test again my deck vs Abzan classic and to be honest the match is still 50/50 if I dontt draw the violwnt outburst. Tarmo is insanely strong against us.
Is it the land destruction is the better way for this deck? Just my opinion though
Land destruction / heavy suspend is better against azban imo. I don't know about overall since your deck has more utility etc. The only thing I would say on your list is you need to either bite the bullet and add blue for access to ardent plea or if not ad a dryad arbor as a demonic dread target so your not reliant on drawing one card in the deck to balance if they don't play creatures.
Ye, Slaughter games would've been good.
What about Krosan Grip? It is uncounterable, and hits Phyrexian unlife, which could be hilarious if they combo out without angel's grace or go into negatives thinking they have another turn.
yeah i'll remember that for future games, the list I played never actually played an unlife (didn't draw one maybe), but I think that would be a good way to do it in the future.
Hi, some of the new cards spoiled from Origins have got me interested in trying out a restore balance control deck, (especially Starfield of Nyx). This is the UW list I'm currently working on:
In my testing, the deck is doing really well against my CoCo and Mardu control decks. The leylines are great. Starfield of Nyx has been a powerhouse, and I usually swing for lethal or just about the turn it comes into play.
@nobody
Wow never thought this deck can evolve to enchantress mode
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
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Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierach not active Jund Tarmoless not active
DnT White
Living End Jund Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpost not active U/W Titan Control not active Mardu Nahiri/Control not active
First of all, I'm sorry if my english isn't good enough. I'm learning.
So, tomorrow night I'm going to my first FNM with this deck, I already tested it a lot in xmage, but nothing in real life. I'm running a borderpost list, and is a little tunned against fast decks. I don't know what to expect in the store, I don't have any idea about the local metagame and stuff. And wednesday I'm moving back to my country (I'm from Brazil, and I'm in Portugal right now) so there's no sense in build against the local metagame after tomorrow. It's a oneshot thing. I know, I'm probably being much dramatic with a FNM, but it's my first modern event, and I'm a little scared.
Anyway, that's my build, some improvements? (as cheap as possible):
Your deck looks fine, It's a bit light on threats/bombs/finishers. There is room to add 2-4 more if you cut a borderpost, a dismember (move one to sideboard?) and maybe your demonic dreads. I'm not sure when you would board in oblivion ring. I think Kor firewalker would be better in case you meet burn, (I also like Faerie Macabre if you want to be cute)
Oblivions are there to deal with tron, but I never boarded it in so you are probably right. I'm thinking about threats, maybe another Nihilit main deck moving out one borderpost? Any sugestion of finishers or things to pressure?
And I like this against burn, Bow of Nylea and Timely Reinforcements are really good (bow is slow, but works) and probably is better find a Restore Balance then a Kor Firewalker with cascade, am I wrong?
I never faced a graveyard based deck with restore, but anyway, isn't Leyline of The Void better in this case? I mean, against full graveyard based it is amazing, and also can difficult the game of UW Tron, Abzans (CoCo and Classic), Grixis, and other stuff like it.
@igulicz imho there is no more budget deck in modern like now.
Is there any cards froms magic origin that we can use?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
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Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierach not active Jund Tarmoless not active
DnT White
Living End Jund Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpost not active U/W Titan Control not active Mardu Nahiri/Control not active
I'm not going to begin to judge whether those two Starfield of Nyx decks are good or not, but I think these enchantment-based builds are so fundamentally different that they deserve their own thread.
Can we keep this thread for Gargadon-based Balance decks only (even those "traditional" builds that may have cut him), and start a new thread for Starfield-based Balance? It would make things easier for everybody.
I'm not going to begin to judge whether those two Starfield of Nyx decks are good or not, but I think these enchantment-based builds are so fundamentally different that they deserve their own thread.
Can we keep this thread for Gargadon-based Balance decks only (even those "traditional" builds that may have cut him), and start a new thread for Starfield-based Balance? It would make things easier for everybody.
Just wondering if you feel that the March of the Machines/creature based versions (which also don't run Gargadon), are worthy of this thread.
I think the real question we need to be asking is, why would you play Balance in a Starfield deck? All I know is if I was going to attempt to play this deck I'd absolutely fear Fracturing Gust. Back to Nature is also something I'd be worried about if the deck ever took off. There's also the expensive Austere Command but it would be vicious.
I think the hardest thing about the Balance shell is that it's only ~15 cards. The rest of the deck can be so diverse it's really hard to say what the best approach is. I will go out on a limb here and say anything with the Balance shell should be included in this thread.
During the course of this thread I've seen so many ideas. I'll list as many as I can think of right off the top of my head.
- the 'typical' WURG balance list
- RGB balance
- versions playing with black for Lingering Souls, Liliana, Nihilith, and other useful tools
- heavy blue balance with minor splashes of the other colors just for cascade
- rainbow versions using every color for maximum diversity
- heavy post versions (16+ posts)
- post-less version with karoo lands
- post-less version with scry lands
- planeswalker balance
- land destruction balance
- heavy control balance with many board sweepers
- Splinter Twin balance
- March of the Machines balance
- Starfield Balance
My question now is, should we have a different thread for all of these decks even though every last one of these decks uses the balance shell? This thread is more than big enough for everyone to post their ideas. I know there are differing thoughts but ultimately that's what will guide us into the most streamlined, consistent, and enjoyable version of the deck.
Of course these are my 2 cents and everyone is open to interpret them as they will.
Just played against Merfolk in a Daily. Game 1 was easy, she dropped a bunch of dudes against my artifact-only mana and I wiped her entire board. She scooped to my Bow of Nylea. Then game 2, I started with a 4 land, no Post hand. I figured I'd dodge artifact hate and they commit a lot to the board, so the Wrath effect was more important. I didn't have a cascader, but I boarded in 2 Firespouts and I figured I'd need the extra mana against Cursecatcher. She started with Vial and 2x Cursecatcher. She cast Spreading Seas on my Plains, which sucked because I needed it for Detention Sphere and Finks, but it did give me the UU I needed for V. Clique. So I cast Clique during her turn, and got rid of a Spell Pierce. I drew an Ardent Plea without drawing another W source (or a Post to bounce and replay the Plains), but the next turn she dropped a Chalice for 0 with a 2 turn clock. I didn't draw Spout so I scooped.
I saw so much hate game 2 that I sided out the Balances and a couple Outbursts and just hoped to play a more "fair" game. Hopefully she'd be stuck with a bunch of dead cards in hand or something. I put in a single Suppression Field to slow down her Vial and Mutavaults in case I did cascade. She played turn 2 Hurkyl's Recall (which I forgot about), bouncing 3 Posts, and followed up with another one two turns later. One lord later and I scooped.
This was my first time playing against Merfolk with this. I don't think we're bad game 1, but the sideboard plan is so terrible for us. Recall is a blowout, but even without that, Chalice, Pierce, maindeck Cursecatcher were stupid. I don't know if Spreading Seas is main or side, but that was also annoying, albeit rather soft as far as hate for us goes.
This is the deck I am trying now on cockatrice. So far:
played and won 4 games against affinity,
win once and lost once to twin,
win 2 and lost once to tron,
lost once to grixis delver
There is no way to properly respond to this thread without saying most people are horribly wrong. Every 5 posts someone shows another Borderpost list and obviously those lists do nothing. The same thing happens every time, u get hit with Affinity hate and .. lose. Ancient Grudge owns the deck. I would like to get some serious input from people who have actually played the deck VS the ones who played it online for 10 mins.
I honestly have no comment on the enchantment versions but in theory they seem effective but dont have the potency of enchantress from legacy where they just win. Seems like a boring ass deck to play against like Eggs without the benefit of showing the opponent the win. If the players of that deck have the ability to win before turn 10ish please describe it to the rest of us.
The cards Durkwood Baloth and Shivan Sand-Mage suddenly make the cut alongside Gargadon. After looking at all the suspend creatures there are very few that matter. I run every relevant one drop except the white giant that taps everything and the 2 drop suspenders generally suck. The goal is to drop ur hand immediately. Assume u have no GG to sac lands into so the next thing it to drop creatures on suspend and nuke their hand. As you can see the real suspend threats are limited, but what are the best ones?
Just trying to get some real conversation going about this deck.
There is no way to properly respond to this thread without saying most people are horribly wrong. Every 5 posts someone shows another Borderpost list and obviously those lists do nothing. The same thing happens every time, u get hit with Affinity hate and .. lose. Ancient Grudge owns the deck. I would like to get some serious input from people who have actually played the deck VS the ones who played it online for 10 mins.
That's not true. I'm assuming you aren't familiar with Jagoob's list that 4-1'ed a Modern Prelim running the borderposts. Yeah, artifact hate is hard to power through, but it's not like running the artifact version is "horribly wrong."
The cards Durkwood Baloth and Shivan Sand-Mage suddenly make the cut alongside Gargadon. After looking at all the suspend creatures there are very few that matter. I run every relevant one drop except the white giant that taps everything and the 2 drop suspenders generally suck. The goal is to drop ur hand immediately. Assume u have no GG to sac lands into so the next thing it to drop creatures on suspend and nuke their hand. As you can see the real suspend threats are limited, but what are the best ones?
Just trying to get some real conversation going about this deck.
I'm getting a sense, based on the lists, that Nihilith is run just by virtue of black being available from the borderposts. I do think that cutting black is a good idea because the cards black makes available don't really justify the trouble. Working off Jagoob's list, I think, like you suggested, simply cutting Nihilith (and the Demonic Dread) and adding in Ephemeron and Baloth would work well, and replace the black-producing posts with lands. It would take testing to get a better sense, though.
@shermansclassic: I did not mean anything to the casual players by that statement. I have taken various borderpost lists to my local tournament and the same result everytime, splash effects from Affinity hate just wrecks the deck. It could just be my meta but everytime I came up there I ran into Stony Silence and Kataki, War's Wage which just makes you lose. Random Abrubt Decays cut you off of mana / Time Walk you and ... they are just too much of a liability. Given, if you play it for casual lols, the deck is a hoot, but in terms of being competitive ... its just not there. Its fun, yes and Jacoob's list actually does look REALLY solid, I ran something similar and loved Perplex in the deck. I also wound up with 15 borderposts and 13 lands. Problem is just the borderposts themselves, I think in the primer it talks about them being a liability.
Honestly, with the right manabase, I am playing something similar to the ones posted with Gemstones, City, and Reflecting Pool. I think I like Slaughter Games in the board to much to rid the whole deck of black but, I would just run a few in the board. This is the list I think we should use as a basis for suspend builds as it is just solid:
I used that list to build what I have now and obviously you only need 3x Restore Balance and 24x lands. I have added some card draw into the deck with Thieves' Fortune and I am wondering if the deck could pull off 3-4 card draw spells and drop down to 7x cascaders. The draw spells available have been discussed before and Fortune wins over Forbidden Alchemy since if you hit a Balance, you dont have to discard it and make it worthless. I do love that it can be flashbacked though and there have been games where I was capable of doing that. This deck is really good in the long game. Another random thing I have noticed with Fortune is that it boosts Tarmogoyf twice (since its tribal) and I have encountered scenarios with him as a 5/6 (or bigger) that nullified some of my creatures.
@miguel89: I like that list but I am also a big supporter of Tendo Ice Bridge VS Mirrodin's Core since you have that mana turn 1 everytime. And in a scenario when you draw 2 as your only lands ... its almost an unkeepable hand since you will be so slow to do anything. I do love the synergy with Reflecting Pool though. I do not understand why you are running Hooting Mandrils over Gurmag Angler or Tasigur though, what is the reason for this? You are already into black for Souls and have the mana to reliably hit B. And I am not sure I get the point of running Fulminator Mage since he kills a land ... and then you Balance and have to sack one. Maybe if you are running Living End in the board when they board in Slaughter Games / Extraction. I personally run Boom // Bust as a 1-of in the board and really like it.
All that said, in the interest of sparking conversation I am going to my local tournament tomorrow and if people want I will post a tournament
report afterwards regardless of what happens.
the problem is that ghostly prison dont tax attacking PW, so while they are good at keeping your ass alive, they are not good at protecting our wincon (PW)
Yesterday I test again my deck vs Abzan classic and to be honest the match is still 50/50 if I dontt draw the violwnt outburst. Tarmo is insanely strong against us.
Is it the land destruction is the better way for this deck? Just my opinion though
------
Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn
Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierachnot activeJund Tarmolessnot activeDnT White
Living End Jund
Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpostnot activeU/W Titan Controlnot activeMardu Nahiri/Controlnot activeEach card has a good use against the deck.
Rest in Peace - kills their combo
Suppression Field - makes their combo harder
Restore Balance - Wrath/Armageddon effects
Looking at it this way, RiP is obviously the bomb against them, but if that resolves they can still hardcast guys every turn for 5 mana or so, and they're nice bodies. We're a control deck at heart, with a slow clock and a low threat density, so I don't think we can deal with a 3/4 or 4/4 (or whatever those cycling clowns are) every turn if we lose the Wrath option.
Suppression Field was helpful in slowing them down. For 1W it's not nearly as good as RiP against them, but it's still helps a lot. If he decides to cycle anyway, even with RiP (perhaps to find a cascader to just Wrath my board with Living End), it costs him 2 extra mana. So the extra hate isn't totally redundant.
I think my reasoning for bringing in both hate cards was twofold: First, without regarding the cascades, that's twice the chance to draw the hate in the opening hand. It's actually castable so drawing it doesn't hurt us. Second, if I side out all 3 Balances, then I only have one target in the whole deck, rendering every cascader but the first useless.
If I keep in some number of Balances, I'm taking the chance to not hit the card I want, but every card is useful to hit. I was always sure (if Balance was a possibility) that if I hit Balance, it would have been profitable. With stuff like Thassa and Theives' Fortune, I have the possibility to sort my cascade targets to the bottom, and by process of elimination I can know which ones are left/possible to hit.
This was my first time sideboarding like this against Living End. I'm still not sure if I like it, but I would try it again.
Land destruction / heavy suspend is better against azban imo. I don't know about overall since your deck has more utility etc. The only thing I would say on your list is you need to either bite the bullet and add blue for access to ardent plea or if not ad a dryad arbor as a demonic dread target so your not reliant on drawing one card in the deck to balance if they don't play creatures.
yeah i'll remember that for future games, the list I played never actually played an unlife (didn't draw one maybe), but I think that would be a good way to do it in the future.
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/72/56/635713414972182458.png
It also hits artifacts so its a full reset but it also lets us choose what the opponent gets to keep.
4 Flooded Strand
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Azorius Chancery
3 Temple of Enlightenment
3 Plains
3 Island
2 Mutavault
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Permanents: 29
2 Monastery Siege
4 Detention Sphere
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Ghostly Prison
4 Ardent Plea
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
1 Heliod, God of the Sun
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Leyline of Anticipation
4 Starfield of Nyx
3 Restore Balance
1 Idyllic Tutor
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Day's Undoing
In my testing, the deck is doing really well against my CoCo and Mardu control decks. The leylines are great. Starfield of Nyx has been a powerhouse, and I usually swing for lethal or just about the turn it comes into play.
Wow never thought this deck can evolve to enchantress mode
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Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn
Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierachnot activeJund Tarmolessnot activeDnT White
Living End Jund
Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpostnot activeU/W Titan Controlnot activeMardu Nahiri/Controlnot activeSo, tomorrow night I'm going to my first FNM with this deck, I already tested it a lot in xmage, but nothing in real life. I'm running a borderpost list, and is a little tunned against fast decks. I don't know what to expect in the store, I don't have any idea about the local metagame and stuff. And wednesday I'm moving back to my country (I'm from Brazil, and I'm in Portugal right now) so there's no sense in build against the local metagame after tomorrow. It's a oneshot thing. I know, I'm probably being much dramatic with a FNM, but it's my first modern event, and I'm a little scared.
Anyway, that's my build, some improvements? (as cheap as possible):
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Island
2 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Evolving Wilds
Borderposts: 16
4 Mistvein Borderpost
3 Wildfield Borderpost
4 Firewild Borderpost
4 Fieldmist Borderpost
1 Veinfire Borderpost
2 Nihilith
4 Greater Gargadon
1 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Combo: 13
4 Violent Outburst
4 Ardent Plea
2 Demonic Dread
3 Restore Balance
Utility: 11
1 Ajani Vengeant
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Dismember
1 Bow of Nylea
2 Timely Reinforcements
3 Wispmare
2 Firespout
4 Ricochet Trap
3 Ingot Chewer
3 Oblivion Ring
Oblivions are there to deal with tron, but I never boarded it in so you are probably right. I'm thinking about threats, maybe another Nihilit main deck moving out one borderpost? Any sugestion of finishers or things to pressure?
And I like this against burn, Bow of Nylea and Timely Reinforcements are really good (bow is slow, but works) and probably is better find a Restore Balance then a Kor Firewalker with cascade, am I wrong?
I never faced a graveyard based deck with restore, but anyway, isn't Leyline of The Void better in this case? I mean, against full graveyard based it is amazing, and also can difficult the game of UW Tron, Abzans (CoCo and Classic), Grixis, and other stuff like it.
Is there any cards froms magic origin that we can use?
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Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn
Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierachnot activeJund Tarmolessnot activeDnT White
Living End Jund
Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpostnot activeU/W Titan Controlnot activeMardu Nahiri/Controlnot activeThat's funny I had the same exact idea, take a look at the list I came up with. It obviously needs a lot of work, but it's a start.
4x Flooded Strand
1x Forest
3x Island
1x Mistveil Plains
1x Mountain
3x Plains
1x Swamp
Artifact :13
1x Chromatic Lantern
4x Fieldmist Borderpost
4x Firewild Borderpost
2x Mistvein Borderpost
2x Wildfield Borderpost
Enchantment :20
4x Ardent Plea
2x Detention Sphere
4x Ghostly Prison
1x March of the Machines
2x Nevermore
2x Oblivion Ring
3x Starfield of Nyx
2x Thopter Spy Network
1x Thassa, God of the Sea
Instant : 6
1x Beast Within
1x Dismember
4x Violent Outburst
Sorcery :4
1x Enduring Ideal
3x Restore Balance
Planeswalker :2
1x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
2x Blood Moon
1x Beast Within
1x Chalice of the Void
1x Dismember
3x Kor Firewalker
4x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Wispmare
Can we keep this thread for Gargadon-based Balance decks only (even those "traditional" builds that may have cut him), and start a new thread for Starfield-based Balance? It would make things easier for everybody.
Just wondering if you feel that the March of the Machines/creature based versions (which also don't run Gargadon), are worthy of this thread.
I think the hardest thing about the Balance shell is that it's only ~15 cards. The rest of the deck can be so diverse it's really hard to say what the best approach is. I will go out on a limb here and say anything with the Balance shell should be included in this thread.
During the course of this thread I've seen so many ideas. I'll list as many as I can think of right off the top of my head.
- the 'typical' WURG balance list
- RGB balance
- versions playing with black for Lingering Souls, Liliana, Nihilith, and other useful tools
- heavy blue balance with minor splashes of the other colors just for cascade
- rainbow versions using every color for maximum diversity
- heavy post versions (16+ posts)
- post-less version with karoo lands
- post-less version with scry lands
- planeswalker balance
- land destruction balance
- heavy control balance with many board sweepers
- Splinter Twin balance
- March of the Machines balance
- Starfield Balance
My question now is, should we have a different thread for all of these decks even though every last one of these decks uses the balance shell? This thread is more than big enough for everyone to post their ideas. I know there are differing thoughts but ultimately that's what will guide us into the most streamlined, consistent, and enjoyable version of the deck.
Of course these are my 2 cents and everyone is open to interpret them as they will.
I saw so much hate game 2 that I sided out the Balances and a couple Outbursts and just hoped to play a more "fair" game. Hopefully she'd be stuck with a bunch of dead cards in hand or something. I put in a single Suppression Field to slow down her Vial and Mutavaults in case I did cascade. She played turn 2 Hurkyl's Recall (which I forgot about), bouncing 3 Posts, and followed up with another one two turns later. One lord later and I scooped.
This was my first time playing against Merfolk with this. I don't think we're bad game 1, but the sideboard plan is so terrible for us. Recall is a blowout, but even without that, Chalice, Pierce, maindeck Cursecatcher were stupid. I don't know if Spreading Seas is main or side, but that was also annoying, albeit rather soft as far as hate for us goes.
Any advice for the Merfolk matchup?
4 Violent Outburst
4 Restore Balance
4 Greater Gargadon
3 Beast Within
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Bow of Nylea
4 Ardent Plea
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Monastery Siege
4 Durkwood Baloth
2 Ajani Vengeant
2 Chromatic Lantern
2 Perplex
4 Gemstone Mine
2 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Vesuva
4 Reflecting Pool
4 Mana Confluence
1 City of Brass
2 Mirrodin's Core
3 Choke
3 Kor Firewalker
2 Stony Silence
3 Leyline of the Void
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Torpor Orb
2 Suppression Field
This is the deck I am trying now on cockatrice. So far:
played and won 4 games against affinity,
win once and lost once to twin,
win 2 and lost once to tron,
lost once to grixis delver
I honestly have no comment on the enchantment versions but in theory they seem effective but dont have the potency of enchantress from legacy where they just win. Seems like a boring ass deck to play against like Eggs without the benefit of showing the opponent the win. If the players of that deck have the ability to win before turn 10ish please describe it to the rest of us.
What I am most concerned with are the suspender versions, I have played most versions of the deck and the big concerns I have are 4 or 5 colors ... and which creatures? Obviously you play Violent Outburst and Ardent Plea as the cascaders, but is black really necessary in a meta where Tasigur, the Golden Fang exists? I do like Nihilith but ... is it really better than running Errant Ephemeron. The only reason I see for running black is Slaughter Games in the board and for Lingering Souls. Please look at this like because it is a link to ALL suspend creatures! http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?text= [suspend]&format=[%22Modern%22]
The cards Durkwood Baloth and Shivan Sand-Mage suddenly make the cut alongside Gargadon. After looking at all the suspend creatures there are very few that matter. I run every relevant one drop except the white giant that taps everything and the 2 drop suspenders generally suck. The goal is to drop ur hand immediately. Assume u have no GG to sac lands into so the next thing it to drop creatures on suspend and nuke their hand. As you can see the real suspend threats are limited, but what are the best ones?
Just trying to get some real conversation going about this deck.
That's not true. I'm assuming you aren't familiar with Jagoob's list that 4-1'ed a Modern Prelim running the borderposts. Yeah, artifact hate is hard to power through, but it's not like running the artifact version is "horribly wrong."
I'm getting a sense, based on the lists, that Nihilith is run just by virtue of black being available from the borderposts. I do think that cutting black is a good idea because the cards black makes available don't really justify the trouble. Working off Jagoob's list, I think, like you suggested, simply cutting Nihilith (and the Demonic Dread) and adding in Ephemeron and Baloth would work well, and replace the black-producing posts with lands. It would take testing to get a better sense, though.
Honestly, with the right manabase, I am playing something similar to the ones posted with Gemstones, City, and Reflecting Pool. I think I like Slaughter Games in the board to much to rid the whole deck of black but, I would just run a few in the board. This is the list I think we should use as a basis for suspend builds as it is just solid:
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=5471&d=231627&f=MO
I used that list to build what I have now and obviously you only need 3x Restore Balance and 24x lands. I have added some card draw into the deck with Thieves' Fortune and I am wondering if the deck could pull off 3-4 card draw spells and drop down to 7x cascaders. The draw spells available have been discussed before and Fortune wins over Forbidden Alchemy since if you hit a Balance, you dont have to discard it and make it worthless. I do love that it can be flashbacked though and there have been games where I was capable of doing that. This deck is really good in the long game. Another random thing I have noticed with Fortune is that it boosts Tarmogoyf twice (since its tribal) and I have encountered scenarios with him as a 5/6 (or bigger) that nullified some of my creatures.
@miguel89: I like that list but I am also a big supporter of Tendo Ice Bridge VS Mirrodin's Core since you have that mana turn 1 everytime. And in a scenario when you draw 2 as your only lands ... its almost an unkeepable hand since you will be so slow to do anything. I do love the synergy with Reflecting Pool though. I do not understand why you are running Hooting Mandrils over Gurmag Angler or Tasigur though, what is the reason for this? You are already into black for Souls and have the mana to reliably hit B. And I am not sure I get the point of running Fulminator Mage since he kills a land ... and then you Balance and have to sack one. Maybe if you are running Living End in the board when they board in Slaughter Games / Extraction. I personally run Boom // Bust as a 1-of in the board and really like it.
All that said, in the interest of sparking conversation I am going to my local tournament tomorrow and if people want I will post a tournament
report afterwards regardless of what happens.
4x Flooded Strand
1x Forest
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
1x Mistveil Plains
1x Mountain
2x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Steam Vents
1x Stomping Ground
3x Wooded Foothills
Sorcery (4)
1x Anger of the Gods
3x Restore Balance
Enchantment (12)
4x Ardent Plea
2x Detention Sphere
3x Ghostly Prison
2x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Outpost Siege
4x Fieldmist Borderpost
3x Firewild Borderpost
2x Trinisphere
2x Wildfield Borderpost
Instant (6)
2x Beast Within
4x Violent Outburst
Creature (6)
4x Greater Gargadon
2x Thassa, God of the Sea
Planeswalker (4)
2x Ajani Vengeant
1x Gideon Jura
1x Jace, Architect of Thought
2x Blood Moon
2x Damping Matrix
2x Hushwing Gryff
2x Kor Firewalker
1x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Nevermore
2x Ricochet Trap
2x Wispmare