I dig your list. I was running mostly a copy of Ari Lax's list, but was having some troubles as i mentioned a couple pages ago.
I think i like the tradeoff to beast within. Instant speed and 'permanent' is pretty damn flexible.
My typical struggles continue to be T2 stony silence, and T3 Lost Legacy. Thalia is another large issue, as it makes us unable to cascade until T5 without SSG. Surgical extraction is equally bad, althought mistveil *should* help. Lost legacy is an even bigger hoser than surgical. Mistveil plains... how often do you have the 2 white permanents to fuel it when you need it?
It feels like if their deck has black in it, we must bring in Leylines, and 4 might be required vs 3. Hell, maindecking a couple might not hurt.
If they're on white, all wear/tear need to come in regardless if you know they have stony or not. 3+ seems almost required with no other ways to hinder it.
Has Anger been that worth running? I scrapped Thassa as well.
I dig your list. I was running mostly a copy of Ari Lax's list, but was having some troubles as i mentioned a couple pages ago.
I think i like the tradeoff to beast within. Instant speed and 'permanent' is pretty damn flexible.
My typical struggles continue to be T2 stony silence, and T3 Lost Legacy. Thalia is another large issue, as it makes us unable to cascade until T5 without SSG. Surgical extraction is equally bad, althought mistveil *should* help. Lost legacy is an even bigger hoser than surgical. Mistveil plains... how often do you have the 2 white permanents to fuel it when you need it?
It feels like if their deck has black in it, we must bring in Leylines, and 4 might be required vs 3. Hell, maindecking a couple might not hurt.
If they're on white, all wear/tear need to come in regardless if you know they have stony or not. 3+ seems almost required with no other ways to hinder it.
Has Anger been that worth running? I scrapped Thassa as well.
You're right that Stony Silence and Thalia are tough and I agree that bringing in W/T against almost every white deck is a good plan. Obviously Lost Legacy could be a problem though the only time I've ever seen that card was when I played it when I was still on lantern.
I really like anger as another way to deal with creatures main board. Currently, I'm testing Sweltering Suns in its place, as I think being able to cycle it is worth losing the exile clause. I've actually considered moving anger/ss to the sideboard though I don't know what would go in its place. Mainboard leylines could be nice, but I'd have to cut at least one more card and I'm not sure what that'd be. Also, I find leylines are more important vs burn than discard. I'm less worried about discard since we have so much redundancy.
EDIT: Bad idea brainstorm - move the 3 Leylines mainboard and move 2 Anger/SS and maybe a Bant Charm to the sideboard? I might test this online.
At an FNM. I'll post results after or edit this post during. First match was U/W control. Both games were won handedly. Second game, he cryptic'd the cascade spell on accident, but it wouldn't have mattered because I had the ricochet trap.
Careful with cryptic and ricochet. If they choose another targeting mode, ricochet trap won't work. Also UW control is one of those matchups that feels bad since they have so many counters, but my win record against them is really good.
Anywho, I went 3-1 due to bad luck. Got my promo Push.
Vs. UW Control 2-0 me
Went as a standard control match goes. We tango'd and eventually my balances came out on top. He dropped the new Gideon against me, which resulted in my balancing. He got in for 4 before I dropped a second balance to get rid of the Gideon the turn after when he animated it again.
And he wasn't skilled enough to play around the trap, so I got him there.
Vs. UWR Saheeli Combo 1-2 him
First game went as it always does against control. The other two were absolutely abysmal for me and my draws. I drew either only lands or only nonlands and mulligan'd to 5. We've played each other in the past and this is the first match I've lost to him.
Vs. Jund 2-0 me
First game ended up with my Nahiri vs. his Liliana. I topdeck'd a Beast Within the turn before she ulted, popped her on my opponent's upkeep, and ulted Nahiri for game.
Game two started to swing heavily in his favor, as he knocked off my green sources and inquisition'd 3 Outbursts from my hand. He knocked me to 1 and had a Dark Confidant, Tarmogoyf, and manland on board. He was at 13, my Gargadon was on 5 and I had exactly 5 permanents. My play was either drop a Colossus and gargo and hope he didn't top deck burn or animate the manland, or sac everything, hit him for 9, and hope the top of his deck was a 4 drop. Went for the aggro play, hit him for 9, and he flips a Huntmaster of the Fells.
Vs. Eldrazi Tron 2-0 me
This was hardly a match, to be honest. It was a super budget/casual Eldrazi Tron deck by a player that dropped a Chalice on 1 despite the fact that I already balanced once. Not much more to say.
Yeah, not too much data on the deck, but it's something. Got what I came for. Want to pick up my full playset of promo Fatal Push, so I'll probably post one of these every week.
Now I just need to optimize my board for what I know they'll bring to the field.
EDIT: for what it's worth, I use the promo Emrakul, Unglued Basics, 1 FNM Evolving wilds, and 3 Khans Promo Evolving Wilds.
Congrats on the good FNM run. Have you missed having Blood Moon in your list? Not running any in the main seems like blasphemy to me tbh...
Also, it sounds like that etron player was new to the deck or something, but any tips on that match-up in general? Gx Tron feels pretty favored for us but between Thought-Knot Seer and main board chalice, I always have trouble with etron.
1. I put Leyline in my main board because I saw Jenn's idea, I felt the most time I lost was caused by discard and some burn player in the tournament. It worked well in almost every match, so I think it is worth in main deck now.
2. I still like Colossus to replace Greater Gargadon. It's MVP in E-tron's match up. Even they cast chalice in 0. We still can use Colossus to win.
The lack of Blood Moon in the main is half a meta call and half I think it's a trap. The meta call is as simple as, the people that play here are used to playing against it and ghost quarter, so they always play around them. The trap is the slot it takes that could be more focused on streamlining my balance strategy and the psychological aspects of having one in the opening hand of game one.
The different trons require similar strategies that are only subtly different. Ultimately, I tend to focus on balancing as soon as possible, before they hit 4 mana. With trons decks, it's just a race. If it is a non-eldrazi variant, try to balance before they drop a planeswalker or ensure you have a Beast Within. Blood Moon is a trap against them, especially post sideboard where the eldrazi variants ensure they have a Wastes available.
The lack of Blood Moon in the main is half a meta call and half I think it's a trap. The meta call is as simple as, the people that play here are used to playing against it and ghost quarter, so they always play around them. The trap is the slot it takes that could be more focused on streamlining my balance strategy and the psychological aspects of having one in the opening hand of game one.
Maybe I'll try cutting back on my moons. I've really liked having Leyline in the main board, but sometimes find myself missing the second Beast Within I moved to the sideboard. I think I'll try bringing the second BW back to the MB and instead either move the third Moon to the SB, or cut the Moon entirely and try something else in the SB.
1. I put Leyline in my main board because I saw Jenn's idea, I felt the most time I lost was caused by discard and some burn player in the tournament. It worked well in almost every match, so I think it is worth in main deck now.
2. I still like Colossus to replace Greater Gargadon. It's MVP in E-tron's match up. Even they cast chalice in 0. We still can use Colossus to win.
i like this list whats your experience with Chandra like especially being that you cant cast land off its plus or do anything with restore balances/emrakul most of the time metal work colossus to you hit they are exiled for good?
Do Borderpost lists really work with all the artifact hate? Nearly every deck runs artifact hate in the sideboard like Ancient Grudge or Destructive Revelry which completely destroys the gameplan.
Do Borderpost lists really work with all the artifact hate? Nearly every deck runs artifact hate in the sideboard like Ancient Grudge or Destructive Revelry which completely destroys the gameplan.
That's why I play a light borderposts list with just 8 BPs. I'd really like to try out Metalwork Colossus, as I think my list's biggest weakness is finding a way to close out the game. However, in order for the colossus to be good, you need to run more BPs. And like you said, that's a liability with all the artifact hate running around.
I've found myself boarding out borderposts against decks that would board in artifact hate. Just play around the hate. Expect it and don't throw all your eggs in one basket.
Love your interpretation of the list, Jenncertainty. I may very well give it a go. I am a big fan of the main deck Leyline being discussed, as well as the addition of As Foretold. Unfortunately, I have an emotional attachment to the Borderposts and just can't bring myself to drop them so low. They feel like such an integral part of the deck. Do those of you playing under 10 copies not find your Balances are less effective?
Love your interpretation of the list, Jenncertainty. I may very well give it a go. I am a big fan of the main deck Leyline being discussed, as well as the addition of As Foretold. Unfortunately, I have an emotional attachment to the Borderposts and just can't bring myself to drop them so low. They feel like such an integral part of the deck. Do those of you playing under 10 copies not find your Balances are less effective?
I think it's just a matter of finding a balance (lol) between effective RBs and getting blown out by artifact hate. Right now I'm at 8 BPs and I certainly wouldn't go any lower than that. I might try to go back up to 10, though I don't know what I'd cut.
Sidenote on the mainboard Leylines: the more I'm testing them, the more I love them. I think they're a mainstay of my list at this point.
If you were going to run 10 posts, how would you change your land-base? Presumably you would need more basic lands to make it playable. I found the trick of balancing the two was having enough basic land without finding myself unable to play a 4 colour deck. Quite challenging! My present build just has a lot of land and a lot of posts...
I don't know how much I would change my land base for extra BPs. Maaaybe I'd add one more basic, but the thing is you really only need to draw one basic before you can start playing BPs, since you can just keep using the same basic to play them. And with 5 basics and 6 lands that can fetch basics, I think I have plenty.
Do you think we can exploit it with some Tolaria West + Dark Depths? (it is a good backup, to protect Blood moon)
Tolaria west is good with As Fortetold also...
I am stupid, this is modern....
I think in Modern, having Blood Moon kill Cavern of Souls completely outweighs having shocks come in untapped (as mountains) without paying life. Meaning, it's overall a good thing for us (or, at worst, neutral).
I dig your list. I was running mostly a copy of Ari Lax's list, but was having some troubles as i mentioned a couple pages ago.
I think i like the tradeoff to beast within. Instant speed and 'permanent' is pretty damn flexible.
My typical struggles continue to be T2 stony silence, and T3 Lost Legacy. Thalia is another large issue, as it makes us unable to cascade until T5 without SSG. Surgical extraction is equally bad, althought mistveil *should* help. Lost legacy is an even bigger hoser than surgical. Mistveil plains... how often do you have the 2 white permanents to fuel it when you need it?
It feels like if their deck has black in it, we must bring in Leylines, and 4 might be required vs 3. Hell, maindecking a couple might not hurt.
If they're on white, all wear/tear need to come in regardless if you know they have stony or not. 3+ seems almost required with no other ways to hinder it.
Has Anger been that worth running? I scrapped Thassa as well.
You're right that Stony Silence and Thalia are tough and I agree that bringing in W/T against almost every white deck is a good plan. Obviously Lost Legacy could be a problem though the only time I've ever seen that card was when I played it when I was still on lantern.
I really like anger as another way to deal with creatures main board. Currently, I'm testing Sweltering Suns in its place, as I think being able to cycle it is worth losing the exile clause. I've actually considered moving anger/ss to the sideboard though I don't know what would go in its place. Mainboard leylines could be nice, but I'd have to cut at least one more card and I'm not sure what that'd be. Also, I find leylines are more important vs burn than discard. I'm less worried about discard since we have so much redundancy.
EDIT: Bad idea brainstorm - move the 3 Leylines mainboard and move 2 Anger/SS and maybe a Bant Charm to the sideboard? I might test this online.
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
Good luck at FNM!
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
3 Restore Balance
Planeswalker
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
Instant
2 Beast Within
4 Violent Outburst
Enchantment
4 Ardent Plea
2 As Foretold
Artifact
4 Firewild Borderpost
4 Fieldmist Borderpost
4 Wildfield Borderpost
1 Bow of Nylea
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Metalwork Colossus
2 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
3 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Greater Gargadon
Lands
2 Plains
2 Island
3 Mountain
3 Forest
1 Mistveil Plains
4 Evolving Wilds
1 Terramorphic Expanse
Anywho, I went 3-1 due to bad luck. Got my promo Push.
Vs. UW Control 2-0 me
Went as a standard control match goes. We tango'd and eventually my balances came out on top. He dropped the new Gideon against me, which resulted in my balancing. He got in for 4 before I dropped a second balance to get rid of the Gideon the turn after when he animated it again.
And he wasn't skilled enough to play around the trap, so I got him there.
Vs. UWR Saheeli Combo 1-2 him
First game went as it always does against control. The other two were absolutely abysmal for me and my draws. I drew either only lands or only nonlands and mulligan'd to 5. We've played each other in the past and this is the first match I've lost to him.
Vs. Jund 2-0 me
First game ended up with my Nahiri vs. his Liliana. I topdeck'd a Beast Within the turn before she ulted, popped her on my opponent's upkeep, and ulted Nahiri for game.
Game two started to swing heavily in his favor, as he knocked off my green sources and inquisition'd 3 Outbursts from my hand. He knocked me to 1 and had a Dark Confidant, Tarmogoyf, and manland on board. He was at 13, my Gargadon was on 5 and I had exactly 5 permanents. My play was either drop a Colossus and gargo and hope he didn't top deck burn or animate the manland, or sac everything, hit him for 9, and hope the top of his deck was a 4 drop. Went for the aggro play, hit him for 9, and he flips a Huntmaster of the Fells.
Vs. Eldrazi Tron 2-0 me
This was hardly a match, to be honest. It was a super budget/casual Eldrazi Tron deck by a player that dropped a Chalice on 1 despite the fact that I already balanced once. Not much more to say.
Yeah, not too much data on the deck, but it's something. Got what I came for. Want to pick up my full playset of promo Fatal Push, so I'll probably post one of these every week.
Now I just need to optimize my board for what I know they'll bring to the field.
EDIT: for what it's worth, I use the promo Emrakul, Unglued Basics, 1 FNM Evolving wilds, and 3 Khans Promo Evolving Wilds.
Also, it sounds like that etron player was new to the deck or something, but any tips on that match-up in general? Gx Tron feels pretty favored for us but between Thought-Knot Seer and main board chalice, I always have trouble with etron.
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
4x Metalwork Colossus
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4x Nahiri, the Harbinger
3x Restore Balance
2x Beast Within
4x Demonic Dread
4x Violent Outburst
2x Blood Moon
4x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Mistvein Borderpost
4x Firewild Borderpost
4x Veinfire Borderpost
4x Wildfield Borderpost
1x Forest
2x Mountain
2x Plains
1x Swamp
4x Evolving Wilds
2x Terramorphic Expanse
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Blood Moon
1x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3x Ravenous Trap
3x Ricochet Trap
2x Timely Reinforcements
3x Wear // Tear
RG Valakut 2-0
Dredge 0-2
Burn 2-0
Jeskai Nahiri 2-1
Grixis Delver 2-1
ID
Eldrazi Tron 2-0
Jeskai Nahiri 1-2
1. I put Leyline in my main board because I saw Jenn's idea, I felt the most time I lost was caused by discard and some burn player in the tournament. It worked well in almost every match, so I think it is worth in main deck now.
2. I still like Colossus to replace Greater Gargadon. It's MVP in E-tron's match up. Even they cast chalice in 0. We still can use Colossus to win.
The different trons require similar strategies that are only subtly different. Ultimately, I tend to focus on balancing as soon as possible, before they hit 4 mana. With trons decks, it's just a race. If it is a non-eldrazi variant, try to balance before they drop a planeswalker or ensure you have a Beast Within. Blood Moon is a trap against them, especially post sideboard where the eldrazi variants ensure they have a Wastes available.
Maybe I'll try cutting back on my moons. I've really liked having Leyline in the main board, but sometimes find myself missing the second Beast Within I moved to the sideboard. I think I'll try bringing the second BW back to the MB and instead either move the third Moon to the SB, or cut the Moon entirely and try something else in the SB.
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
That's why I play a light borderposts list with just 8 BPs. I'd really like to try out Metalwork Colossus, as I think my list's biggest weakness is finding a way to close out the game. However, in order for the colossus to be good, you need to run more BPs. And like you said, that's a liability with all the artifact hate running around.
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
I think it's just a matter of finding a balance (lol) between effective RBs and getting blown out by artifact hate. Right now I'm at 8 BPs and I certainly wouldn't go any lower than that. I might try to go back up to 10, though I don't know what I'd cut.
Sidenote on the mainboard Leylines: the more I'm testing them, the more I love them. I think they're a mainstay of my list at this point.
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
This is my list as it stands currently:
2 Evolving Wilds
2 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
2 Island
1 Mistveil Plains
2 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
2 Wooded Foothills
Sorcery (6)
4 Restore Balance
Instant (8)
2 Bant Charm
2 Beast Within
4 Violent Outburst
4 Ardent Plea
2 As Foretold
2 Blood Moon
3 Leyline of Sanctity
Artifact (8)
4 Fieldmist Borderpost
4 Firewild Borderpost
Creature (9)
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Greater Gargadon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Planeswalker (4)
1 Gideon of the Trials
3 Nahiri, the Harbinger
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Blood Moon
2 Culling Scales
2 Ghostly Prison
2 Oketra's Last Mercy
2 Ravenous Trap
2 Ricochet Trap
2 Wear / Tear
If I were to add two more BPs, I'd probably cut a Beast Within and go down to 3 Restore Balances and add 2 Wildfield Borderpost.
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
Do you think we can exploit it with some Tolaria West + Dark Depths? (it is a good backup, to protect Blood moon)Tolaria west is good with As Fortetold also...
I am stupid, this is modern....
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG