I hadn't considered recording my games, but if there's interest maybe I'll look into it. I have a friend who streams (not Magic) so he'd probably be able to set me up. As far as friendly vs. competitive, there doesn't seem to be a huge difference. Mostly it's just more tier decks and less random jank, but the power level of the players doesn't seem significantly higher.
I'm happy with 16/8 lands/bp split. I was on 9 bp for a while and recently cut one. My reasoning is that though bp can help with destroying the opponent's lands with restore balance, I don't want to be leaning too heavily on them at risk of getting blown out by something like Stony Silence.
I'll admit my sideboard strategy needs work. I feel like it's the biggest example of a matchup where I want to bring in a lot but have nothing to cut. Overall though, I'm not too worried about affinity. Unless they get the nut draw, I feel pretty favored in that matchup. Culling Scales is mostly for the death's shadow match-up. They feel really strong there. I'm still kinda testing them though because they're a relatively recent addition to my SB.
I'm mostly interested in quality content instead of the mostly circular theory crafting that kind of put me off this thread =)
Well, the real question is would you be interested in watching someone play the deck even if they lose? Haha. So far, the 5-0 is a bit of an anomaly... I'm very data-oriented, so I track all of my games and I'm currently sitting on a 45% win rate, which isn't great...
I'm probably missing something but how does Bant charm help against the hate on borderposts? In my experience posts are also important mana-fixing through Blood moon
It doesn't? The only hate Bant Charm helps against is Chalice of the Void. Mostly, the charm helps up be a little more interactive.
Well there really isn't anyone else I know of who streams RB so maybe I'll look into setting it up. I'll let you know.
As for sample size, I'm up to 74 games, still somewhat new to the deck. And that's from both paper and online games (I play the same list in paper). Friendly leagues at first, though I've switched over to competitive. And mostly FNM in paper.
I think it would be more interesting to see. =)
What is your sample size? I have a 63% win rate with the deck on modern friendly leagues since the eye of ugin ban. (205 games).
Regarding borderposts I misunderstood, I thought you removed a borderpost to answer artifact hate.
Bant charm (instant) modes are as follows, destroy an artifact or counter an instant or put a creature on the bottom of the owners deck.This has a cost benefit effect the negative side is you have to have bant mana to cast or as foretold some times can be kinda hard with balance/blood moon having perfect mana to cast.
The benefit is the flexibility against counter spell decks we can sometimes steal a win through a counter on balance or a key card nahari.
AS far as artifact hate goes this is more of a mainboard card which can be sided out for more stony silence removal if needed but realistically game 2 the best way to beat stony is to play round it asforetold becomes key for us.
Hi all. Sorry to spam the thread, but I just went 5-0 in a competitive MTGO league and, though it's not as big of a deal as something like a GP, we don't get a lot of tournament reports here and I find them helpful, so I thought I'd share my experience.
In my opinion, this is by far the deck's best match-up. Scapeshift builds with a lot of blue and counterspells can give us trouble, but that version seems to be pretty rare. Without counterspells, there isn't much the deck can do when we're repeatedly wiping their lands. Worst case scenario, they bring in Chalice of the Void out of the sideboard, but we have ways to deal with that.
In game 1, I keep a hand with two lands, two borderposts, two copies of Ardent Plea and a Greater Gargadon. I misplay turn 1 and play the UW BP instead of GR, which means I can't suspend GG on turn 2. It doesn't matter because the opponent ramps turns 2 and 3 and I respond with Ardent Plea, dropping him from 5 lands to 1. He doesn't draw into anymore lands and I cast Nahiri on turn 4 that wins me the game.
Game 2 he plays Chalice of the Void on 0 turn 2, but I play Blood Moon on turn 3, so we both get a slow start. Once I remove Chalice, I cast Violent Outburst on his draw step and sac all my lands to GG. He has 2 Khalni Heart Expedition on the field, so he's able to rebuild his lands quickly, but not faster than my GG beats.
Win 2-0
Ad Nauseam
There wasn't much to game 1. The opponent missed a lot of land drops, which meant they couldn't really get going before I started disrupting their plans. One thing this game taught me was that against spell-based combo decks like Ad Naus, it can be more disruptive to use RB to wipe their hand rather than their lands.
Game 2 I slow them down by destroying their turn 2 Pentad Prism and then landing a turn 3 Blood Moon[c/]. Next turn I play As Foretold and after that, I suspend GG and cast Violent Outburst during their draw step. Figuring I can just use As Foretold to cast my spells, I sac all my lands to GG and the opponent scoops.
Win 2-0
Counters Company
Game 1 I had to mull down to 5 and eventually kept something with 2 lands, Nahiri, and 2 Violent Outburst, with an Ardent Plea left on top with the scry (on the draw). They land a turn 2 Vizier and I don't have the mana on turn 3 to cascade into Restore Balance (drew a borderpost instead of a land). Worse yet, they cast Collected Company at the end of turn. I lucked out and they didn't find the Devoted Druid. Turn 4, they float mana in response to Balance and cast another CoCo. I just respond by casting yet another Balance the next turn. They play Vizier, I cast Nahiri, remove the Vizier once it swings, hard cast a SSG to protect Nahiri, and eventually win with her ult.
I ended up not boarding anything in for this match-up. There really isn't anything in my SB that helps and, as long as they don't get a quick turn 3 kill, this match-up feels pretty favored.
Game 2, a SSG allows me to play As Foretold into Restore Balance that wipes all of their lands. Once again, they float mana and cast CoCo, finding Rhonas and Vizier. Next turn, I cast Gideon of the Trials to neutralize Vizier beats. They cast Devoted Druid, but then scoop to Restore Balance the next turn.
Win 2-0
Affinity
Game 1, I'm on the draw and I mull to 5, keeping 2 Anger of the Gods, 2 lands, and a borderpost, with a second borderpost left on top of my library. The opponent plays an Arcbound Ravager and is able to play enough artifacts to protect Vault Skirge from Anger of the Gods. He has to go down to one land for this though, which slows him down. I Beast Within the SKirge and then cast my second Anger of the Gods two turns later. At this point, he only had Glimmervoid and the Anger took out his only artifact, so this left him with 0 permanents. Once he rebuilds, I just take everything out again with Restore Balance and win with GG beats.
Game 2 was pretty straightforward. All it took was a Wear/Tear on my turn 1 borderpost to slow me down enough to give him the win. I even had back to back cascaders to deal with Hangarback Walk and the resulting tokens, but it still wasn't enough.
Game 3 I suspend a GG on turn 1 and he starts beating down with Signal Pest equipped with Cranial Plating on turn 2. I Wear the Plating, he takes out my borderpost with Ancient Grudge and I decide to just go all out and sac all my lands in response to a Balance, leaving him with just a Mox Opal. He gets me down to 6 thanks to Galvanic Blast and tries to win with Memnite beats. I'm able to sac enough artifacts/lands in order to cast GG in response to attacks, take out his one blocker, and then win with GG beats. That's an important trick to remember if you're running GG: he can be cast off suspend at instant-speed if you have things to sac.
Win 2-1
UR Kiln Fiend
I hadn't played this matchup before, but given that their win-con is very creature based, it feels pretty favored for us. My only concern is that they can sometimes get in a turn 3 win, which is game over if we're on the draw. I try playing cautiously in game 1, because I don't know how many counters they're running. I can cascade on turn 3, but decide to wait since I have Violent Outburst and figure they need to tap out to go for an early win. Sure enough, next turn the opponent taps out for three Kiln Fiend triggers plus Temur Battle Rage. I respond with Violent Outburst and save myself. I play Gideon, who's able to hold off another Fiend until I can find another cascader that wipes the opponent's board. They scoop.
Game 2 I keep a glorious hand with one basic land, 3 borderposts, 2 Ardent Plea and a Violent Outburst. The opponent counters my second borderpost, but after the second Restore Balance wipes all of their lands, they scoop.
Win 2-0
Overall, I'm very happy with my list right now. I definitely lucked out in a lot of ways, seeing as I didn't hit any of my terrible matchups. That being said, I'm pretty excited that I was able to go 5-0 with my favorite deck. Like I said at the beginning, I'm not 100% convinced on Bant Charm yet, but the combination of removal and a potential counter feels pretty good.
Congratulations your deck looks pretty stream lined now i like it good job.Somethings i dont know weather i like personally.
I don't know weather its due to budget considerations but id like to see those terramophic expanses become fetches as it makes it harder in an opener to make a turn 1 play like a suspend GG.
I like the mist vale plains but is it too cute rather than optimal since we can be tight for mana without an as foretold i dont know weather that where i want to be.Also How's the 3 nahari to 1 chandra split treating you have you found instances where you wish it was just another nahari?
Congratulations your deck looks pretty stream lined now i like it good job.Somethings i dont know weather i like personally.
I don't know weather its due to budget considerations but id like to see those terramophic expanses become fetches as it makes it harder in an opener to make a turn 1 play like a suspend GG.
I like the mist vale plains but is it too cute rather than optimal since we can be tight for mana without an as foretold i dont know weather that where i want to be.Also How's the 3 nahari to 1 chandra split treating you have you found instances where you wish it was just another nahari?
The 2 copies of Terramorphic Expanse actually aren't because of budget. My reasoning is that they grab all four colors and all four basics, which can be important. There have been a few times where coming in tapped has mattered, but overall I think that is outweighed by grabbing all of our basics.
Looks like I missed another issue with the list I linked. That 1 Chandra should be Gideon of the Trials instead. I've been happy with the 3/1 split. It was originally a budget concern (when I first bought into the deck, I had 0 Nahiris and 1 Chandra, so I decided to just buy 3, then ended up swapping in Gideon) but now I'm happy with the split. I've never felt like I need a fourth Nahiri, especially now that I'm running Gideon.
Why Expanse and not Evolving Wilds, so you have access to a lot of beautiful arts and promos (and also some ugly ones, but we'll ignore those)?
I've found Mistveil to be kinda underwhelming in my build, but that's a mix of me not running normal fetches (I have them, I just find expanse and wilds to be better for my deck) and the different metas we share. Honestly, it's one of two flex slots I've been trying to replace, the other being Bow of Nylea, which has always proven a powerhouse when it hits, but I'd rather run it in the board.
I've thought about testing Bow of Nylea. What's your experience been with it?
And re: expanse vs. evolving wilds, I actually really like the Terramorphic Expanse art, which is my only reason for running it (I think I might run EW online, though).
Bow is strong but clunky. The casting cost isn't too difficult to hit considering I'm on 12 post, but I sometimes enter the awkward scenario of RB and wipe my opponent of lands by saccing mine or dropping the bow and giving an opponent an extra, potentially crucial, turn.
Once it's on the board, Bow is powerful. All its activated abilities tend to be relevant: turn gargo into a two turn clock or buffing Spirit Guides; shoot down spirits; life gain is always good; and recycling balances is super powerful. I've had an opponent hit an infinite life combo and I proceeded to set up an infinite balance combo by recycling 3-4 cards every two turns to lock them out until they lost (cascade spell, restore balance, cascade spell to initiate, then rb, cascade, rb, cascade to make every turn a balance).
The only thing it does that doesn't matter is the deathtouch. I'd say it's worth a test, but I usually side it out because of all the artifact hate I get.
by the was has anyone tried cast out? https://twitter.com/shaunmclaren?lang=en shawn mclarens final version so it seems as of Jun 14.I dont know if im a fan of his 4 visions he has 1 dsphere as removal for chalice main board?what if we went to a 3 dsphere and 2 visions how would that feel?
Personally, I'm not a fan of the zero cascade version of the deck. While visions is a good card, I don't think having only 4 As Foretold is consistent enough for me. I think if you're going to run Foretold and RB, it should be in a control shell, not a pure RB shell with posts and all.
Personally, I'm not a fan of the zero cascade version of the deck. While visions is a good card, I don't think having only 4 As Foretold is consistent enough for me. I think if you're going to run Foretold and RB, it should be in a control shell, not a pure RB shell with posts and all.
Agreed. I built the noncascade version just to test (back to cascade now) and it is far less consistent. As Foretold is a strong card, but is much better as a support option and not to rely on to cast your RB. I run it as a two of and it doesn't disappoint, but any more and the decks suffers.
Personally, I'm not a fan of the zero cascade version of the deck. While visions is a good card, I don't think having only 4 As Foretold is consistent enough for me. I think if you're going to run Foretold and RB, it should be in a control shell, not a pure RB shell with posts and all.
Personally, I'm not a fan of the zero cascade version of the deck. While visions is a good card, I don't think having only 4 As Foretold is consistent enough for me. I think if you're going to run Foretold and RB, it should be in a control shell, not a pure RB shell with posts and all.
That's true. I suppose with the Expertises, you can have more redundancy in the zero cascade version.
I have seen the heavy BP/colossus version of the deck and I have two problems with it. The personal opinion issue is I just love Gargadon and wouldn't want to give up its ability to sac our lands and turn RB into Armageddon. The more serious issue is increasing your BP count makes you weaker to artifact hate and with Affinity doing well, there's a lot of artifact hate out there.
EDIT: I just realized the biggest issue I have with the zero cascade version. Cutting Violent Outburst means there's no way to RB at instant-speed.
I'm happy with 16/8 lands/bp split. I was on 9 bp for a while and recently cut one. My reasoning is that though bp can help with destroying the opponent's lands with restore balance, I don't want to be leaning too heavily on them at risk of getting blown out by something like Stony Silence.
I'll admit my sideboard strategy needs work. I feel like it's the biggest example of a matchup where I want to bring in a lot but have nothing to cut. Overall though, I'm not too worried about affinity. Unless they get the nut draw, I feel pretty favored in that matchup. Culling Scales is mostly for the death's shadow match-up. They feel really strong there. I'm still kinda testing them though because they're a relatively recent addition to my SB.
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
Well, the real question is would you be interested in watching someone play the deck even if they lose? Haha. So far, the 5-0 is a bit of an anomaly... I'm very data-oriented, so I track all of my games and I'm currently sitting on a 45% win rate, which isn't great...
It doesn't? The only hate Bant Charm helps against is Chalice of the Void. Mostly, the charm helps up be a little more interactive.
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
As for sample size, I'm up to 74 games, still somewhat new to the deck. And that's from both paper and online games (I play the same list in paper). Friendly leagues at first, though I've switched over to competitive. And mostly FNM in paper.
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
Bant charm (instant) modes are as follows, destroy an artifact or counter an instant or put a creature on the bottom of the owners deck.This has a cost benefit effect the negative side is you have to have bant mana to cast or as foretold some times can be kinda hard with balance/blood moon having perfect mana to cast.
The benefit is the flexibility against counter spell decks we can sometimes steal a win through a counter on balance or a key card nahari.
AS far as artifact hate goes this is more of a mainboard card which can be sided out for more stony silence removal if needed but realistically game 2 the best way to beat stony is to play round it asforetold becomes key for us.
Congratulations your deck looks pretty stream lined now i like it good job.Somethings i dont know weather i like personally.
I don't know weather its due to budget considerations but id like to see those terramophic expanses become fetches as it makes it harder in an opener to make a turn 1 play like a suspend GG.
I like the mist vale plains but is it too cute rather than optimal since we can be tight for mana without an as foretold i dont know weather that where i want to be.Also How's the 3 nahari to 1 chandra split treating you have you found instances where you wish it was just another nahari?
The 2 copies of Terramorphic Expanse actually aren't because of budget. My reasoning is that they grab all four colors and all four basics, which can be important. There have been a few times where coming in tapped has mattered, but overall I think that is outweighed by grabbing all of our basics.
I totally disagree on Mistveil Plains. That card has been really helpful. Being able to recycle a Restore Balance or protect against Surgical Extraction makes the ETB tapped totally worth it. Plus, it's fetchable with Flooded Strand.
Looks like I missed another issue with the list I linked. That 1 Chandra should be Gideon of the Trials instead. I've been happy with the 3/1 split. It was originally a budget concern (when I first bought into the deck, I had 0 Nahiris and 1 Chandra, so I decided to just buy 3, then ended up swapping in Gideon) but now I'm happy with the split. I've never felt like I need a fourth Nahiri, especially now that I'm running Gideon.
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
I've found Mistveil to be kinda underwhelming in my build, but that's a mix of me not running normal fetches (I have them, I just find expanse and wilds to be better for my deck) and the different metas we share. Honestly, it's one of two flex slots I've been trying to replace, the other being Bow of Nylea, which has always proven a powerhouse when it hits, but I'd rather run it in the board.
And re: expanse vs. evolving wilds, I actually really like the Terramorphic Expanse art, which is my only reason for running it (I think I might run EW online, though).
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
Once it's on the board, Bow is powerful. All its activated abilities tend to be relevant: turn gargo into a two turn clock or buffing Spirit Guides; shoot down spirits; life gain is always good; and recycling balances is super powerful. I've had an opponent hit an infinite life combo and I proceeded to set up an infinite balance combo by recycling 3-4 cards every two turns to lock them out until they lost (cascade spell, restore balance, cascade spell to initiate, then rb, cascade, rb, cascade to make every turn a balance).
The only thing it does that doesn't matter is the deathtouch. I'd say it's worth a test, but I usually side it out because of all the artifact hate I get.
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
Agreed. I built the noncascade version just to test (back to cascade now) and it is far less consistent. As Foretold is a strong card, but is much better as a support option and not to rely on to cast your RB. I run it as a two of and it doesn't disappoint, but any more and the decks suffers.
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
so he is on
21 lands(12 fetches)
5 boarder posts (3 wildfeild ,2 feildmist)
1 dsphere
4 outburst
4 ardent plea's
4 simian spirit guides
4 as foretold
4 restore's
4 ancestral
4 nahari
4 GG
1 emrakul
Do you have a link to that list? Are they really running cascade cards and Ancestral Vision? That seems like a bad idea...
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
What about Kari Zev's Expertise as a backup option to cast Restore Balance from hand in the As Foretold build (Jeskai colors) ?
Also, have you seen the version of the deck that plays even more borderposts and uses them to cast Metalwork Colossus
(as an alternative for Greater Gargadon) ?
http://decks.tcgplayer.com/magic/modern/lin-juiche/restore-balance/1290814
That's true. I suppose with the Expertises, you can have more redundancy in the zero cascade version.
I have seen the heavy BP/colossus version of the deck and I have two problems with it. The personal opinion issue is I just love Gargadon and wouldn't want to give up its ability to sac our lands and turn RB into Armageddon. The more serious issue is increasing your BP count makes you weaker to artifact hate and with Affinity doing well, there's a lot of artifact hate out there.
EDIT: I just realized the biggest issue I have with the zero cascade version. Cutting Violent Outburst means there's no way to RB at instant-speed.
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG