playing with mill in competitive scene is like a date with a platonic love from childhood.
I wholeheartedly agree.
It almost feels like I did when I played land destruction in Legacy years ago.
Is there a feeling among the community that the white splash is necessary in the current meta?
Is the UB cardpool just too lacking of tools to be competitive?
I find winrates to be lower after Aether Revolt
Mill is not good enough to fight current metagame imo
Emrakul, Tasigur, Tarmogoyf, Griselbrand, Dredge, Living End, Gifts Ungiven and even Rest in Peace - any of these wouldnt be an issue with absence of others, but combined they make too many 'unlucky' points for Mill
Transforming my deck to fight these will make it softer to regular decks like Affinity, Burn, Eldrazi, Merfolks etc
What are people's thoughts about using cycle lands rather than shocks in their decks?
Possibly awkward in the first few turns but useful later on to find more action...?
I have been thinking about that since they were spoiled. Something to fix that late game one more draw issue that comes up
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Modern CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard GRGR Pummeler
I don't think a milling deck can afford lands that always enter tapped. They're a cool idea, but our fourth and fifth land drops often matter in terms of mana access, between refilling your hand with Visions and hardcasting Archive Traps.
“I am confident that if anyone actually penetrates our facades, even the most perceptive would still be fundamentally unprepared for the truth of House Dimir.”
The part you're missing here is that it's imperative to mill/extract academy ruins or the game is unwinnable. It's basically a soft lock against you.
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“I am confident that if anyone actually penetrates our facades, even the most perceptive would still be fundamentally unprepared for the truth of House Dimir.”
The part you're missing here is that it's imperative to mill/extract academy ruins or the game is unwinnable. It's basically a soft lock against you.
I've been in that situation a number of times against U Tron but we have a number of outs. Ghost Quarter, Hedron Crab and a fetchland (or Ghost Quarter yourself for a trigger but really what are you doing lol), or instant speed mill like Archive Trap or Thoughtscour. The amount varies from list to list, but you also have some degree of control over what they're drawing, and you mill them out faster. You might also have Leylines in the board and should be better equipped to deal with them.
I don't think DS or aggressive creatures is the way to go. The only way to self-damage is fetch and shock, and mill isn't ready to this kind of loss.
Phantasm is the best in my opinion, but if you use Bridge they don't get room to attack.
The only reason i can find to use creatures is to respond a possible Gideon of the trial .. but the most important is the way you like to play, if you feel comfortable with a mill getting another win condition - follow your heart.
But Deathshadow will be a reactive play, against combo decks they will die in your hand.
Anybody have experience against Lantern Control? I feel like we're favored, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
I've regularly been playing against Lantern Control at my FNM.
In game 1 it's all about crippling their deck enough before they assemble their lock. Academy Ruins can be a pain, so you should always hold up a Ghost Quarter for that.
Game 2 and 3 they're gonna bring in Leyline of Sanctity, Surgical Extraction and more Discard to prevent you from Milling them too quick and Surgically Extracting their Lantern or Bridge and Abrupt Decay to kill Hedron Crab.
The cool thing about this matchup is, even if they have assembled their lock, the lands they permit you to draw can do their part if you have a Hedron Crab out and they don't kill it. I've won some games through the lock with just Hedron Crab and fetching/Ghost Quartering my own lands. But expect them to have Pithing Needle and name Polluted Delta, Flooded Strand or Ghost Quarter.
If you're on Esper and have access to Disenchant, there are some fun things to do with it. Disenchant their Bridge to beat them down with Jace's Phantasm if you're playing them, Disenchant their Turn 1 artifact and kill their Glimmervoid to put them behind on mana if you're on the play. Of course Disenchant their Leyline of Sanctity and Surgically Extract it immediately.
All in all I'd say it's a 60-40 in our favor because we're just a lot quicker than them, but post-board Leyline and Discard are a pain in the ass and can make it a real struggle.
Thanks for the insight!
I'm on Esper, so Ghost Quarters are tough to include, but Disenchant/Fragmentize and Stony Silence from the side will help immensely. Based on my experience against Lantern with other decks, along with what you've said here, I'd be confident in grinding out wins more often than not, especially if Ruins can be extracted.
Hello all, I am currently playing Esper mill, splashing for path and ghostly prison main (Budget bridges). Does anyone have any thoughts on leyline or Rest in Peace in the side? I'm currently running leyline as my list runs snapcasters, but I feel like I need to aggressively Mulligan to it or it was a waste of 3 slots. It doesn't do enough quick enough if not in your opening hand, but is a free spell, sometimes win, when it is. Any thoughts?
I got 2 RiP in my side , great against Nahiri, Deathshadow, living end and instant win against dredge / storm... the only problem it's because visions of beyond lost the power9 value (i normally side out 2 when put RiP) and make Lingering Souls a "meh" card.
I don't have any leyline, it's realy expensive right now, but i think 1 or 4 is the number, i don't like to cry over the spilled mil(l)k - so go for it or make it smooth.. anyway if i get leyline they will have 4 slots in my side (saying bye to RiP and others things). I think they are best choice because don't interfere in the way mill mechanics plays, unlike RiP.
If the problem is GY hate, you can use trapmaker's snare and ravenous trap. Snap can target snare if needed or hardcast the trap.
ps: I don't have snapcaster in my deck, what make RiP most useful to me.
Alright boys, I'm in need of some input. I have a very narrow lead in my Modern league after five weeks of playing mostly Living End, but grave hate is popping up everywhere, and my results are leveling off. Time for a curveball; enter the Mill.
I've always played a more controlling version of Mill; this list is heavy on cantrips and interaction, relatively light on direct Mill spells. The Lantern Control player is breathing down my neck, so I really want to have the tools to beat him if we meet. Other threatening decks are various iterations of Zoo and Burn, Abzan Company, and U Tron.
For those keeping count, there are 61 cards in the main. With my super-low mana curve and all of the card draw, the perfect land count to avoid mulligans and consistently hit land drops without being flooded seems to be somewhere between 20 and 21. My solution was to stay at 21 and add in the fourth Thought Scour.
I haven't but have been considering running it over wall of omens. If you're running straight mill then it won't matter at all if they are gaining life.
What he probably means is if there's a downside to the pseudo Death Shadow removal that the life gain becomes.
I don't think there's a downside, the bad thing is it still dies to fatal push without even need to revolt.
The life gain vs death shadow is nice, but very situational I think. The extra card from Wall of Omen is a better deal I would think.
You know, I talked myself out of Ghost Quarter in Esper colors a while back--there have too many times when I wished it was any of my colored-mana producers. But that was before I adopted the cantrip-heavy setup, and also before I started seeing so many annoying utility lands across the table. You've convinced me to work them back in (but I'll stay at 21 lands/61 cards for now).
-1 fetch, -1 River of Tears, +2 GQ
I think 2 is the magic number for Incursion, with a third in the side. It's totally dead in some matchups, while others feel nearly unwinnable without it. Similar logic applies to extraction effects, although they're never truly dead, just sub-optimal against aggro decks with a lot of redundant threats.
As for IoK, I tested a playset for a while and don't think that it quite fits the archtype. We already have good matchups against combo decks, generally speaking, and as a late game top deck it brings all the bad feels. Maybe I'm just spoiled from running 3x Collective Brutality in monoblack Devotion and being able to pitch IoKs after their sell-by date, but for me it doesn't quite make the cut in Mill.
Your Phantasm suggestion has really got me thinking, however. He does seem great against all of the decks I'm looking for advantages against. In my eyes he's a four-of or nothing; if we're including creatures that don't either mill the enemy (Crab, Scribe) or generate card advantage (Wall of Omens, Snapcaster Mage, Lingering Souls), we need to really commit to what they offer, which in Phantasm's case means an aggro Plan B.
I'll mull over where 4x Phantasm could fit in here. Ditching the counter suite of Remands and Spell Pierces is the obvious choice, but the deck loses out on a lot without the ability to disrupt enemy plays, especially with my attrition-oriented setup.
Fraying Sanity 2U
Enchantment Aura curse
Enchant player
At the beginning of each end step, enchanted player puts the top X cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard, where X is the total number of cards put into his or her graveyard this turn.
Anyone think this could make the cut. 3 mana passive enchantment, kinda similar to Sphinx's Tutelage but synergizes with milling effects more.
turn 3 this into turn 4 glimpse gives us 20 cards.
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Modern
Competitive: GW Hatebears - UG Infect - BGW Liege Rhino
Casual: GR Titan Ramp - BR Aggro
WIP: BUW Control Mill
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I wholeheartedly agree.
It almost feels like I did when I played land destruction in Legacy years ago.
Is there a feeling among the community that the white splash is necessary in the current meta?
Is the UB cardpool just too lacking of tools to be competitive?
Legacy - WRG Lands, WR Shortcake, RR Burn, UBRG Delver
Mill is not good enough to fight current metagame imo
Emrakul, Tasigur, Tarmogoyf, Griselbrand, Dredge, Living End, Gifts Ungiven and even Rest in Peace - any of these wouldnt be an issue with absence of others, but combined they make too many 'unlucky' points for Mill
Transforming my deck to fight these will make it softer to regular decks like Affinity, Burn, Eldrazi, Merfolks etc
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
I have been thinking about that since they were spoiled. Something to fix that late game one more draw issue that comes up
CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy
GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard
GRGR Pummeler
Skip to 3:42:00 for feelsgood mill moments. Enjoy
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/144965594
W/R Prison
Goryo's Vengence
Jeskai Nahiri
???
I've been in that situation a number of times against U Tron but we have a number of outs. Ghost Quarter, Hedron Crab and a fetchland (or Ghost Quarter yourself for a trigger but really what are you doing lol), or instant speed mill like Archive Trap or Thoughtscour. The amount varies from list to list, but you also have some degree of control over what they're drawing, and you mill them out faster. You might also have Leylines in the board and should be better equipped to deal with them.
Phantasm is the best in my opinion, but if you use Bridge they don't get room to attack.
The only reason i can find to use creatures is to respond a possible Gideon of the trial .. but the most important is the way you like to play, if you feel comfortable with a mill getting another win condition - follow your heart.
But Deathshadow will be a reactive play, against combo decks they will die in your hand.
Thanks for the insight!
I'm on Esper, so Ghost Quarters are tough to include, but Disenchant/Fragmentize and Stony Silence from the side will help immensely. Based on my experience against Lantern with other decks, along with what you've said here, I'd be confident in grinding out wins more often than not, especially if Ruins can be extracted.
I don't have any leyline, it's realy expensive right now, but i think 1 or 4 is the number, i don't like to cry over the spilled mil(l)k - so go for it or make it smooth.. anyway if i get leyline they will have 4 slots in my side (saying bye to RiP and others things). I think they are best choice because don't interfere in the way mill mechanics plays, unlike RiP.
If the problem is GY hate, you can use trapmaker's snare and ravenous trap. Snap can target snare if needed or hardcast the trap.
ps: I don't have snapcaster in my deck, what make RiP most useful to me.
I've always played a more controlling version of Mill; this list is heavy on cantrips and interaction, relatively light on direct Mill spells. The Lantern Control player is breathing down my neck, so I really want to have the tools to beat him if we meet. Other threatening decks are various iterations of Zoo and Burn, Abzan Company, and U Tron.
4 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
2 Watery Grave
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Godless Shrine
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Plains
2 Darkslick Shores
1 River of Tears
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
4 Archive Trap
2 Mind Funeral
4 Mesmeric Orb
4 Hedron Crab
4 Thought Scour
4 Visions of Beyond
2 Remand
2 Spell Pierce
2 Crypt Incursion
2 Surgical Extraction
4 Path to Exile
2 Fatal Push
2 Stony Silence
2 Disenchant
2 Fragmentize
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Darkness
1 Extirpate
1 Pithing Needle
1 Crypt Incursion
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Hide//Seek
For those keeping count, there are 61 cards in the main. With my super-low mana curve and all of the card draw, the perfect land count to avoid mulligans and consistently hit land drops without being flooded seems to be somewhere between 20 and 21. My solution was to stay at 21 and add in the fourth Thought Scour.
Any thoughts?
CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy
GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard
GRGR Pummeler
UR Niv-Mizzet, The Firemind
WUR Narset's Coinflip Casino
Modern
UB Mill
I don't think there's a downside, the bad thing is it still dies to fatal push without even need to revolt.
The life gain vs death shadow is nice, but very situational I think. The extra card from Wall of Omen is a better deal I would think.
-1 fetch, -1 River of Tears, +2 GQ
I think 2 is the magic number for Incursion, with a third in the side. It's totally dead in some matchups, while others feel nearly unwinnable without it. Similar logic applies to extraction effects, although they're never truly dead, just sub-optimal against aggro decks with a lot of redundant threats.
As for IoK, I tested a playset for a while and don't think that it quite fits the archtype. We already have good matchups against combo decks, generally speaking, and as a late game top deck it brings all the bad feels. Maybe I'm just spoiled from running 3x Collective Brutality in monoblack Devotion and being able to pitch IoKs after their sell-by date, but for me it doesn't quite make the cut in Mill.
Your Phantasm suggestion has really got me thinking, however. He does seem great against all of the decks I'm looking for advantages against. In my eyes he's a four-of or nothing; if we're including creatures that don't either mill the enemy (Crab, Scribe) or generate card advantage (Wall of Omens, Snapcaster Mage, Lingering Souls), we need to really commit to what they offer, which in Phantasm's case means an aggro Plan B.
I'll mull over where 4x Phantasm could fit in here. Ditching the counter suite of Remands and Spell Pierces is the obvious choice, but the deck loses out on a lot without the ability to disrupt enemy plays, especially with my attrition-oriented setup.
Thanks much for your feedback.
Fraying Sanity 2U
Enchantment Aura curse
Enchant player
At the beginning of each end step, enchanted player puts the top X cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard, where X is the total number of cards put into his or her graveyard this turn.
Anyone think this could make the cut. 3 mana passive enchantment, kinda similar to Sphinx's Tutelage but synergizes with milling effects more.
turn 3 this into turn 4 glimpse gives us 20 cards.
Competitive: GW Hatebears - UG Infect - BGW Liege Rhino
Casual: GR Titan Ramp - BR Aggro
WIP: BUW Control Mill