The best card for that, actually, is Altar of the Brood. It's more an EDH trick to stop Top.
I've often wondered if Mill could use Brood. Oboro as a land guarantees you will always have at least 1 land to play per turn. Ultimately, Mill just does not have enough permanents. I'd love to make a deck that does.
I have a different question for the void. I know we all have issues with the opening hand Leyline of Sanctity what about using demystify for esper builds? One mana, instant speed removal for any enchantment, better then Fragmentize faster then disenchant.
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I think the flexibility of being able to destroy artifacts is important, maybe even more important than enchantments, though Leyline and Blood Moon both mean problems for us. Fragmentize lets you do either, and it comes in for more matchups than Demystify would without too much of a drawback.
I think the flexibility of being able to destroy artifacts is important, maybe even more important than enchantments, though Leyline and Blood Moon both mean problems for us. Fragmentize lets you do either, and it comes in for more matchups than Demystify would without too much of a drawback.
Overall what artifact are we afraid of. There are some match-up specific ones like Pentad Prism or Lotus Bloom but other than those what artifacts do we care about? I am not trying to sound attacking but I am just curious.
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I think the flexibility of being able to destroy artifacts is important, maybe even more important than enchantments, though Leyline and Blood Moon both mean problems for us. Fragmentize lets you do either, and it comes in for more matchups than Demystify would without too much of a drawback.
Overall what artifact are we afraid of. There are some match-up specific ones like Pentad Prism or Lotus Bloom but other than those what artifacts do we care about? I am not trying to sound attacking but I am just curious.
Cranial Plating, Arcbound Ravager, Steel Overseer, Inkmoth Nexus, Aether Vial, Chalice of the Void, Expedition Map are all relevant and a 1 mana removal against them is pretty effective at slowing their game plan Though I did have to think hard to get a list! (and maybe I'm missing some). Comparatively, Blood Moon and Leyline are the only 2 enchantments we're really scared of, ya? They are big big problems though.
Related to Inquisition and Fatal Push, I like both. I run 3 Push, 3 path, and 2 IoK in the main in my deck - I like all of them for their own reasons. I especially like Inquisition with Surgicals, since once you have a look at their hand (via IoK) you know what to hit with Surgical once once you've milled it (T1 Archive trap?) to do the most damage.
If you haven't tried it, I urge you to. I have made some changes to my list to adapt it to the new game strategy (yes, it has been THAT relevant for me thus far).
I've switched some Breakings for Trapmaker's Snares, since we really want our Archive traps for when we fire Field of Ruin.
Playing Field of Ruin (3 currently, considering the 4th copy) was the final push into UB, I think it's better than Esper. With this, I also decided to go back to creatureless, and playing a full set of Remand and 3 copies of Darkness. It might still be early, I only played around 15-20 matches with this list, but it feels very good.
One annoying card I didn't think about is Leonin Arbiter, it saves them from having to search, haha. Lost 2-1 to Eldrazi and Taxes yesterday, with Thalia stealing g2 delaying everything a turn and Leonin Arbiter surprise saving them g3, Those two are really annoying.
I hate cutting Crab since it also pulls some crazy wins, specially with Fraying Sanity out or in multiples, but it was dying sooo often to removal that I feel for now it's the best choice. It blanks a lot of cards in opponents decks.
Having these many instants also works great with Trapmaker's Snare, since you can hold up mana and then Remand, or Snare, or Visions, or Darkness, as necessary.
Breaking over Mind funeral is key for the cost, being able to cast a Glimpse/Orb/Breaking and holding Remand or casting 2 of those with 4 mana after a Fraying Sanity/Ensnaring Bridge is very important.
Darkness has really shown promise over Fatal Pushes, Inquisitions and Thought Scours, that were my other options for those slots. It has given me that extra turn needed enough times these 2 days to be really excited about it.
I knew Field of Ruin would change Mill. It forces a search, triggering Trap. The search is not optional. Ghost Quarter could not do that. Path could not do that. You knock them off a color, trigger a search and thus Trap for 2 mana. FoR is a 4 of. They have to respect it, knowing as long as it's on the field, Archive Trap is a constant threat.
Furthermore, you do not lose tempo. You still get your land. This is even better compared to Ghost Quarter, where you went down a land, and they went up one, or Path, where they went up a land and you did not. It Revolts Fatal Push - AND gets the Swamp to cast it! I think it ends the Esper debate, as the only reasons now to go white are Ghostly Prison and Disenchant. U/B can give viable alternatives at the same cost, Bridge and Set Adrift.
I still recommend Snapcaster Mage, strictly for the flashback. The chump block can be nice as well. My current updated list, debuting tomorrow at FNM: https://deckbox.org/sets/1378327
That's a strong recommendation of the list. I've found Ghost Quarter and Path to be pretty effective at getting the search, it's rare when someone doesn't go for it in my experience. You didn't find that paying 2 mana for the Field plus 2 mana for the Snare was a little steep to activate Archive Trap? I guess if you're landing 2 of them it's decent.
Interesting with Darkness and Ensnaring Bridge both in there - don't you find they overlap a little bit? The bridge also seems like it would non-bo with Remand too, needing to keep them in hand. Have they been effective for you? I'd almost think something else could work better, maybe even Bontu's in the main?
I'm also surprised to see no Fatal Push or any creature control in there. What stops you getting run over with Goyf or Infect outside of Darkness?
I do like the idea of Snare in the list, but why not put some of the silver bullet traps in the sideboard? Ravenous Trap and Mindbreak Trap both seem like they would be worth having as a one-of to tutor for.
I'm definitely intrigued by your list though and am going to proxy up some field of ruins and Trapmaker's Snares to test it out.
I have played 2 Ravenous Trap in my main for a while and really liked it. My meta had a few dredge players and the occasional living end or nahiri. I have also found that ravenous works well vs snapcaster, tasiger and the zombie fish.
I have had the total opposite with Ghost Quarter and Path to Exile once my opp knows I am on mill with Archive trap. I have had more opps elect to be down a land then risk a trap. So something that is not a may search I am very interested in.
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I'm not a fan of Ravenous Trap. I much prefer Crypt Incursion.
I'm tossing around ideas in my head for a deck that focuses on Archive Trap. Now that we have a guaranteed way to force the opponent to search, I am trying to figure out a way to get a T4 mill out.
What we need in hand:
2 Archive Trap
1 Field of Ruin
1 Fraying Sanity
What we have to find them:
Expedition Map (Field of Ruin)
Sylvan Scrying (Green) (Field of Ruin)
Trapmaker's Snare (Archive Trap)
Infernal Tutor (Archive Trap)
Bitterheart Witch will get a curse when it dies, but her CMC is 5.
Stuck right about here. How to find the curse without going white for idyllic Tutor.
The deck would have essentially 12 Archive Traps and 12 Field of Ruin. Probably need 4 ways to find Fraying Sanity to be viable. I suppose we could run it in a hardcore control shell to get time, lets say 4 Darkness and 4 Fog. Or something like 4 Visions of Beyond, 4 Peek and 4 Serum Visions and perhaps 4 Index.
I'm more partial to the Darkness/Fog angle.
Here is a decklist for you guys to critique: https://deckbox.org/sets/1813336
Probably the Glimpses go for more control and card draw.
That's a strong recommendation of the list. I've found Ghost Quarter and Path to be pretty effective at getting the search, it's rare when someone doesn't go for it in my experience. You didn't find that paying 2 mana for the Field plus 2 mana for the Snare was a little steep to activate Archive Trap? I guess if you're landing 2 of them it's decent.
Interesting with Darkness and Ensnaring Bridge both in there - don't you find they overlap a little bit? The bridge also seems like it would non-bo with Remand too, needing to keep them in hand. Have they been effective for you? I'd almost think something else could work better, maybe even Bontu's in the main?
I'm also surprised to see no Fatal Push or any creature control in there. What stops you getting run over with Goyf or Infect outside of Darkness?
I do like the idea of Snare in the list, but why not put some of the silver bullet traps in the sideboard? Ravenous Trap and Mindbreak Trap both seem like they would be worth having as a one-of to tutor for.
I'm definitely intrigued by your list though and am going to proxy up some field of ruins and Trapmaker's Snares to test it out.
The no removal maindeck thing was the craziest, it certainly didn't feel right in my mind, but I tried it and the threat density feels just so much better.
Some thoughts on matchups:
The matchup that get hit the most so far is Abzan company. Not being able to kill the druids is tough if they get the combo. Remand against a CoCo probably buys you a turn, or since Orb can mess their infinite mana combo, remanding a big Ballista can be game. Mill and extract a piece of the combo remains the best out.
Infect should be a bit harder, Darkness/Remand can slow them down a bit. Haven't played against Infect with this list yet (or any other list, for a long while luckily)
Storm stays the same, I can't hit their creatures and delay them, but I have Remand that can be a lot better at the right time and make them fizzle if they were greedy. Of course post sideboard with all the extraction and graveyard hate it's A LOT better.
I thought Bogles would be annoying as well, but actually managed to beat it yesterday. Remand and Darkness are just so good at buying extra turns and then bridge took over for another turn until I finished them with the "combo".
Eldrazi and taxes are tough unless we get a Crypt Incursion to resolve, same as RW Burn. I've both won and lost to them, but the main reason I'm excited about this list is I've never had those games where you're dissapointed at your deck and feel like your gameplan was not good.
Valakut decks remain a walk in the park, as well as Tron decks usually. Lantern is another very positive matchup.
Blood moon decks are no longer such an annoyance being UB, they were a nightmare for my Esper list running only 1 basic of each.
Eldrazi Tron and Death Shadow are pretty even, if I get a trap (or 2) to resolve I can usually win it, if not we depend on Bridge to avoid Reality Smasher beatdowns.
Affinity is a bit harder, early Orb is amazing, and Field of Ruin allows us to have a KO punch in activating our usually dead traps. Then Crypt Incursion can save the day once that graveyard has some stuff in it.
Being creatureless, I have an advantage g1 that the straightforward plan takes advantage of. They have sooo many dead cards in their deck. I've seen a lot of hands when extracting a card that where Push, Push, Terminate, or Path, Verdict and things like that. That's plain card advantage, specially against UW, since black can sometimes pitch those to brutality. No more 2 for 1 whith Kolaghan's command where they hit your Crab and Orb/Bridge and you're wrecked (I still hate that card, haha).
I feel the decklist is a lot more consistent. I'm mulliganing a lot less, and never get the feeling of being out of action. The Darkness-Remand pack has been a total MVP. Darkness is very unexpected, and messes their gameplan a lot. The extra time that buys helps get to that t4 where we can get some payoff, whether it's a big Crypt Incursion, an Ancestral Recall filling up our hand and casting that extra mill, the bridge lockdown, double mill spell with Sanity out, or our new cool win condition (the most frequent one currently! I would say I used Field of Ruin + Trap in a little over 50% of the games):
Tap Field of Ruin and 2 lands to destroy one of his lands, fetch a basic, play 2 traps + a 2 mana mill spell (Glimpse/Breaking/Orb). Assuming we've done any milling before or gotten a Fraying Sanity out t3, it's game over.
Archive traps before Field of Ruin where being very hard for me. I loved them in my opening and using them for a headstart, or as a late topdeck when I could hardcast them, but anytime in the middle they were a liability. They clogged my hand and made Bridge worse, my opponents had long ago stopped falling for Ghost Quarter or Path, I never liked depending on an opponent's punt for them to be good (I've seen our deck around a lot more recently and played against more people who knew it, also I started doing Competitive Leagues, so better players I guess)
Ravenous Traps have not been that great for me, I've liked the Nihil Spellbombs a lot more. With Crabs, leaving an uncracked Fetchland guaranteed you could play the trap for free, but since I don't run them anymore, they're just unreliable, while Spellbomb is cheap, doesn't need any mana up (that's why I don't run Relic) and usually draws me a card.
Anyway, that was quite a lot to read, haha. That I've taken the time to write all that is just proof of how excited I am with my new list!
I have played 2 Ravenous Trap in my main for a while and really liked it. My meta had a few dredge players and the occasional living end or nahiri. I have also found that ravenous works well vs snapcaster, tasiger and the zombie fish.
I have had the total opposite with Ghost Quarter and Path to Exile once my opp knows I am on mill with Archive trap. I have had more opps elect to be down a land then risk a trap. So something that is not a may search I am very interested in.
This right here. Field of Ruin might not accelerate the early game but it makes such a huge difference in the mid game. How many times have you had two Archive Traps and a Visions in your hand at turn 4 and the opponent just won't search with Path or Ghost Quarter? I know I've had that very scenario several times. It also allows us to combo with Fraying Sanity (two Traps will win the game for us, even one trap is basically a Traumatize). The benefits of Field of Ruin are just too good. I'm running two in Esper but if I go Dimir then bumping it to 3 or 4 is very reasonable.
I've also experienced the Leonin Aribiter counter and it's bloody annoying. Always hated playing against Hatebears and it's even more vexing now.
How has Bontu's worked for you? I feel like the lost turn is brutal. I've seen it work well for 8 rack but of course its going to work well when the opponent has no cards in his/her hand.
Working off a failing memory, I beat monogreen Eldrazi 2-0 in the first round, 2nd round I beat a green collected company deck using elves 2-1, lost to a deck I cannot recollect 2-1, and then 8-rack whipped me 2-0.
Mesmeric orb made no difference the 1st 2 rounds, and then showed up everywhere in the last 2 rounds.
Not sure how to go about beating 8-rack. they are the antithesis of everything I was trying to do. Boarded out removal, and boarded in Trap, Cage and Memento. Extracted Rack, Shrieking Affliction still nailed me. Extracted Raven's Crime, still too much coming. That's gonna be a tough one.
Visions of Beyond is your most important card and you need to not draw it in your opening 7. Surgical on Rack or Affliction buys time against most draws. Not a good matchup though to say the least.
Also, most 8 rack lists will have creatures in their sideboard to bring in. If you don't think they are playing creatures then Profane Memento makes no sense either.
My lose was to eldrazi tron where I drew 2 lands game 1 and only lands game 2. I beat Grixis Deathshadow, Affinity and Monogreen +1/+1 counter deck. Mind Funeral, Mesmeric Orb, and Fraying Sanity were all stars. Field of Ruin was a definite upgrade for this deck from Ghost Quarter. The biggest thing I like about it is the fact it replaces itself on the battle field. Over all, I think things are looking up.
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Side out against 8 Rack: Archive Trap, Crypt Incursion, Ravenous Trap, Trapmaker's Snare
Removal is okish since everybody plays Mutavaults and there can be creatures after sideboard
Discard is below average since you advance their game plan and even spend mana on it
Pithing Needle on Liliana or Mutavault can be good. or not.
I wont play Surgical Extraction against them. Sometimes it is good but 75% of times it is not. Even if you keep it in 60 after sideboard (because there are no good sideboard cards), dont play it, they need to spend resources to keep your hand empty, if you do it for them, you help them win
Dont play your cards mindlessly, sometimes staying at 3+ cards is better than advancing your gameplan
Generally card advantage is good, card disadvantage is bad
Visions of Beyond is your most important card and you need to not draw it in your opening 7. Surgical on Rack or Affliction buys time against most draws. Not a good matchup though to say the least.
Also, most 8 rack lists will have creatures in their sideboard to bring in. If you don't think they are playing creatures then Profane Memento makes no sense either.
Oops, not Momento, Nature's Claim.
I'm seeing Visions of Beyond as antithetical to the Ensnaring Bridge plan.
Right now, I'm thinking removal for Mutavault and the creature they sideboard in. Board out Bridge, keep Trap, because we can Trap them after we use Field of Ruin on a Mutavault. Exile their hand disruption. They will yank them away anyway, so we may as well get a 4:1. I'm thinking save the Extractions for when they play Raven's Crime or Blackmail, etc. but Extirpate needs to be used when we can, lest they strip it.
LotV wasn't a problem, they milled them all, but if she hit the board, I'd have had an impossible time dealing with her. So, optimal sideboard is: Crypt Incursion out, Ensnaring Bridge out, Cage in, Claim in, Hurkyl's Recall in, and any card draw in. Never even entered my mind to bring in the Recalls. Duh.
I have been hot and cold on visions. Yes Ancestral recall is amazing, but at the same time I do not want cards in hand with bridge. I elected for more mill cards with the full play sets of all the heavy hitters. I also get a lot of incidental mill with the 4 orbs and 4 sanity and the ipnu rivlet won me a few games just being there from the beginning of the game. I do not think I cast fatal push once the whole day, so I could switch that out to give Visions another try and see.
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Thoughts on Jace, Vryn's Prodigy as an inclusion? I like jay2rock's list and I like quart's list (darkness i think is sideboard, but may be a good meta call atm). thanks for all the ideas, great thread.
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There are a few combo mill decks that use altar of the brood with heartless summoning and a pair of Myr Retriever among others
I have a different question for the void. I know we all have issues with the opening hand Leyline of Sanctity what about using demystify for esper builds? One mana, instant speed removal for any enchantment, better then Fragmentize faster then disenchant.
CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy
GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard
GRGR Pummeler
Overall what artifact are we afraid of. There are some match-up specific ones like Pentad Prism or Lotus Bloom but other than those what artifacts do we care about? I am not trying to sound attacking but I am just curious.
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Standard
GRGR Pummeler
Cranial Plating, Arcbound Ravager, Steel Overseer, Inkmoth Nexus, Aether Vial, Chalice of the Void, Expedition Map are all relevant and a 1 mana removal against them is pretty effective at slowing their game plan Though I did have to think hard to get a list! (and maybe I'm missing some). Comparatively, Blood Moon and Leyline are the only 2 enchantments we're really scared of, ya? They are big big problems though.
Related to Inquisition and Fatal Push, I like both. I run 3 Push, 3 path, and 2 IoK in the main in my deck - I like all of them for their own reasons. I especially like Inquisition with Surgicals, since once you have a look at their hand (via IoK) you know what to hit with Surgical once once you've milled it (T1 Archive trap?) to do the most damage.
If you haven't tried it, I urge you to. I have made some changes to my list to adapt it to the new game strategy (yes, it has been THAT relevant for me thus far).
I've switched some Breakings for Trapmaker's Snares, since we really want our Archive traps for when we fire Field of Ruin.
Playing Field of Ruin (3 currently, considering the 4th copy) was the final push into UB, I think it's better than Esper. With this, I also decided to go back to creatureless, and playing a full set of Remand and 3 copies of Darkness. It might still be early, I only played around 15-20 matches with this list, but it feels very good.
One annoying card I didn't think about is Leonin Arbiter, it saves them from having to search, haha. Lost 2-1 to Eldrazi and Taxes yesterday, with Thalia stealing g2 delaying everything a turn and Leonin Arbiter surprise saving them g3, Those two are really annoying.
I hate cutting Crab since it also pulls some crazy wins, specially with Fraying Sanity out or in multiples, but it was dying sooo often to removal that I feel for now it's the best choice. It blanks a lot of cards in opponents decks.
Having these many instants also works great with Trapmaker's Snare, since you can hold up mana and then Remand, or Snare, or Visions, or Darkness, as necessary.
Breaking over Mind funeral is key for the cost, being able to cast a Glimpse/Orb/Breaking and holding Remand or casting 2 of those with 4 mana after a Fraying Sanity/Ensnaring Bridge is very important.
Darkness has really shown promise over Fatal Pushes, Inquisitions and Thought Scours, that were my other options for those slots. It has given me that extra turn needed enough times these 2 days to be really excited about it.
So, here's the updated decklist, I'd love to see some other lists and hear your opinions on cards as well.
3x Field of Ruin
2x Flooded Strand
3x Island
4x Polluted Delta
2x Shelldock Isle
3x Swamp
4x Watery Grave
Artifacts(8)
4x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Mesmeric Orb
4x Archive Trap
2x Crypt Incursion
3x Darkness
4x Remand
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Trapmaker's Snare
4x Visions of Beyond
Sorcery(7)
3x Breaking
4x Glimpse the Unthinkable
3x Fraying Sanity
2x Bontu's Last Reckoning
1x Crypt Incursion
2x Echoing Truth
2x Extirpate
3x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Pithing Needle
2x Set Adrift
1x Surgical Extraction
Furthermore, you do not lose tempo. You still get your land. This is even better compared to Ghost Quarter, where you went down a land, and they went up one, or Path, where they went up a land and you did not. It Revolts Fatal Push - AND gets the Swamp to cast it! I think it ends the Esper debate, as the only reasons now to go white are Ghostly Prison and Disenchant. U/B can give viable alternatives at the same cost, Bridge and Set Adrift.
I still recommend Snapcaster Mage, strictly for the flashback. The chump block can be nice as well. My current updated list, debuting tomorrow at FNM: https://deckbox.org/sets/1378327
Interesting with Darkness and Ensnaring Bridge both in there - don't you find they overlap a little bit? The bridge also seems like it would non-bo with Remand too, needing to keep them in hand. Have they been effective for you? I'd almost think something else could work better, maybe even Bontu's in the main?
I'm also surprised to see no Fatal Push or any creature control in there. What stops you getting run over with Goyf or Infect outside of Darkness?
I do like the idea of Snare in the list, but why not put some of the silver bullet traps in the sideboard? Ravenous Trap and Mindbreak Trap both seem like they would be worth having as a one-of to tutor for.
I'm definitely intrigued by your list though and am going to proxy up some field of ruins and Trapmaker's Snares to test it out.
I have had the total opposite with Ghost Quarter and Path to Exile once my opp knows I am on mill with Archive trap. I have had more opps elect to be down a land then risk a trap. So something that is not a may search I am very interested in.
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GRGR Pummeler
I'm tossing around ideas in my head for a deck that focuses on Archive Trap. Now that we have a guaranteed way to force the opponent to search, I am trying to figure out a way to get a T4 mill out.
What we need in hand:
2 Archive Trap
1 Field of Ruin
1 Fraying Sanity
What we have to find them:
Expedition Map (Field of Ruin)
Sylvan Scrying (Green) (Field of Ruin)
Trapmaker's Snare (Archive Trap)
Infernal Tutor (Archive Trap)
Bitterheart Witch will get a curse when it dies, but her CMC is 5.
Stuck right about here. How to find the curse without going white for idyllic Tutor.
The deck would have essentially 12 Archive Traps and 12 Field of Ruin. Probably need 4 ways to find Fraying Sanity to be viable. I suppose we could run it in a hardcore control shell to get time, lets say 4 Darkness and 4 Fog. Or something like 4 Visions of Beyond, 4 Peek and 4 Serum Visions and perhaps 4 Index.
I'm more partial to the Darkness/Fog angle.
Here is a decklist for you guys to critique:
https://deckbox.org/sets/1813336
Probably the Glimpses go for more control and card draw.
The no removal maindeck thing was the craziest, it certainly didn't feel right in my mind, but I tried it and the threat density feels just so much better.
Some thoughts on matchups:
The matchup that get hit the most so far is Abzan company. Not being able to kill the druids is tough if they get the combo. Remand against a CoCo probably buys you a turn, or since Orb can mess their infinite mana combo, remanding a big Ballista can be game. Mill and extract a piece of the combo remains the best out.
Infect should be a bit harder, Darkness/Remand can slow them down a bit. Haven't played against Infect with this list yet (or any other list, for a long while luckily)
Storm stays the same, I can't hit their creatures and delay them, but I have Remand that can be a lot better at the right time and make them fizzle if they were greedy. Of course post sideboard with all the extraction and graveyard hate it's A LOT better.
I thought Bogles would be annoying as well, but actually managed to beat it yesterday. Remand and Darkness are just so good at buying extra turns and then bridge took over for another turn until I finished them with the "combo".
Eldrazi and taxes are tough unless we get a Crypt Incursion to resolve, same as RW Burn. I've both won and lost to them, but the main reason I'm excited about this list is I've never had those games where you're dissapointed at your deck and feel like your gameplan was not good.
Valakut decks remain a walk in the park, as well as Tron decks usually. Lantern is another very positive matchup.
Blood moon decks are no longer such an annoyance being UB, they were a nightmare for my Esper list running only 1 basic of each.
Eldrazi Tron and Death Shadow are pretty even, if I get a trap (or 2) to resolve I can usually win it, if not we depend on Bridge to avoid Reality Smasher beatdowns.
Affinity is a bit harder, early Orb is amazing, and Field of Ruin allows us to have a KO punch in activating our usually dead traps. Then Crypt Incursion can save the day once that graveyard has some stuff in it.
Being creatureless, I have an advantage g1 that the straightforward plan takes advantage of. They have sooo many dead cards in their deck. I've seen a lot of hands when extracting a card that where Push, Push, Terminate, or Path, Verdict and things like that. That's plain card advantage, specially against UW, since black can sometimes pitch those to brutality. No more 2 for 1 whith Kolaghan's command where they hit your Crab and Orb/Bridge and you're wrecked (I still hate that card, haha).
I feel the decklist is a lot more consistent. I'm mulliganing a lot less, and never get the feeling of being out of action. The Darkness-Remand pack has been a total MVP. Darkness is very unexpected, and messes their gameplan a lot. The extra time that buys helps get to that t4 where we can get some payoff, whether it's a big Crypt Incursion, an Ancestral Recall filling up our hand and casting that extra mill, the bridge lockdown, double mill spell with Sanity out, or our new cool win condition (the most frequent one currently! I would say I used Field of Ruin + Trap in a little over 50% of the games):
Tap Field of Ruin and 2 lands to destroy one of his lands, fetch a basic, play 2 traps + a 2 mana mill spell (Glimpse/Breaking/Orb). Assuming we've done any milling before or gotten a Fraying Sanity out t3, it's game over.
Archive traps before Field of Ruin where being very hard for me. I loved them in my opening and using them for a headstart, or as a late topdeck when I could hardcast them, but anytime in the middle they were a liability. They clogged my hand and made Bridge worse, my opponents had long ago stopped falling for Ghost Quarter or Path, I never liked depending on an opponent's punt for them to be good (I've seen our deck around a lot more recently and played against more people who knew it, also I started doing Competitive Leagues, so better players I guess)
Ravenous Traps have not been that great for me, I've liked the Nihil Spellbombs a lot more. With Crabs, leaving an uncracked Fetchland guaranteed you could play the trap for free, but since I don't run them anymore, they're just unreliable, while Spellbomb is cheap, doesn't need any mana up (that's why I don't run Relic) and usually draws me a card.
Anyway, that was quite a lot to read, haha. That I've taken the time to write all that is just proof of how excited I am with my new list!
This right here. Field of Ruin might not accelerate the early game but it makes such a huge difference in the mid game. How many times have you had two Archive Traps and a Visions in your hand at turn 4 and the opponent just won't search with Path or Ghost Quarter? I know I've had that very scenario several times. It also allows us to combo with Fraying Sanity (two Traps will win the game for us, even one trap is basically a Traumatize). The benefits of Field of Ruin are just too good. I'm running two in Esper but if I go Dimir then bumping it to 3 or 4 is very reasonable.
I've also experienced the Leonin Aribiter counter and it's bloody annoying. Always hated playing against Hatebears and it's even more vexing now.
Working off a failing memory, I beat monogreen Eldrazi 2-0 in the first round, 2nd round I beat a green collected company deck using elves 2-1, lost to a deck I cannot recollect 2-1, and then 8-rack whipped me 2-0.
Mesmeric orb made no difference the 1st 2 rounds, and then showed up everywhere in the last 2 rounds.
Not sure how to go about beating 8-rack. they are the antithesis of everything I was trying to do. Boarded out removal, and boarded in Trap, Cage and Memento. Extracted Rack, Shrieking Affliction still nailed me. Extracted Raven's Crime, still too much coming. That's gonna be a tough one.
Also, most 8 rack lists will have creatures in their sideboard to bring in. If you don't think they are playing creatures then Profane Memento makes no sense either.
3 Field of Ruin
2 Flooded Strand
2 Ipnu Rivulet
3 Island
4 Polluted Delta
3 Swamp
4 Watery Grave
Creatures
4 Hedron Crab
Spells
4 Archive Trap
4 Breaking // Entering
2 Crypt Incursion
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Fatal Push
4 Fraying Sanity
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
4 Mesmeric Orb
4 Mind Funeral
2 Ravenous Trap
2 Trapmaker's Snare
2 Crypt Incursion
2 Damnation
3 Echoing Truth
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Pithing Needle
2 Profane Memento
2 Set Adrift
My lose was to eldrazi tron where I drew 2 lands game 1 and only lands game 2. I beat Grixis Deathshadow, Affinity and Monogreen +1/+1 counter deck. Mind Funeral, Mesmeric Orb, and Fraying Sanity were all stars. Field of Ruin was a definite upgrade for this deck from Ghost Quarter. The biggest thing I like about it is the fact it replaces itself on the battle field. Over all, I think things are looking up.
CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy
GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard
GRGR Pummeler
Removal is okish since everybody plays Mutavaults and there can be creatures after sideboard
Discard is below average since you advance their game plan and even spend mana on it
Pithing Needle on Liliana or Mutavault can be good. or not.
I wont play Surgical Extraction against them. Sometimes it is good but 75% of times it is not. Even if you keep it in 60 after sideboard (because there are no good sideboard cards), dont play it, they need to spend resources to keep your hand empty, if you do it for them, you help them win
Dont play your cards mindlessly, sometimes staying at 3+ cards is better than advancing your gameplan
Generally card advantage is good, card disadvantage is bad
Experienced 8 Rack player here
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
Oops, not Momento, Nature's Claim.
I'm seeing Visions of Beyond as antithetical to the Ensnaring Bridge plan.
Right now, I'm thinking removal for Mutavault and the creature they sideboard in. Board out Bridge, keep Trap, because we can Trap them after we use Field of Ruin on a Mutavault. Exile their hand disruption. They will yank them away anyway, so we may as well get a 4:1. I'm thinking save the Extractions for when they play Raven's Crime or Blackmail, etc. but Extirpate needs to be used when we can, lest they strip it.
LotV wasn't a problem, they milled them all, but if she hit the board, I'd have had an impossible time dealing with her. So, optimal sideboard is: Crypt Incursion out, Ensnaring Bridge out, Cage in, Claim in, Hurkyl's Recall in, and any card draw in. Never even entered my mind to bring in the Recalls. Duh.
CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy
GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard
GRGR Pummeler