Now, 1 copy of it and 1 copy of Laboratory Maniac could make that alternate mill ourselves against Leylines plan work...
We can mill both to the graveyard without any concern, and then cast rites with flashback when the time comes.
The only concern would be graveyard hate once we mill the Maniac I guess, but having to mulligan down to a disenchant effect is already pretty bad, so I will give it a try, it's just 2 cards.
Anybody tried this already or spots something I might be missing?
How could not any opponent simply win faster or destroy your brittle plan? (By the way, I have already explored such option in my primer.)
The decks that run Leyline tend to be the kind of decks that don't win fast.
I think it's a legit option to have in the sideboard, especially if you're playing creatureless. Your opponent will probably board out their removal, allowing you to keep LabMan around easier. I would also want to bring in stuff to slow the game down (Bridge/Prison, more removal for you) to hopefully get there. I think Orb is a key piece here, as it allows you to blast through your deck as quickly as possible. Also hanging onto a Visions in your hand allows you to respond at instant speed if there's <3 cards in your deck. I think for Esper though, Disenchant/Fragmentize are probably more reliable options, and they also allow you to play around Blood Moon, which I've found screws me pretty hard.
Now, 1 copy of it and 1 copy of Laboratory Maniac could make that alternate mill ourselves against Leylines plan work...
We can mill both to the graveyard without any concern, and then cast rites with flashback when the time comes.
The only concern would be graveyard hate once we mill the Maniac I guess, but having to mulligan down to a disenchant effect is already pretty bad, so I will give it a try, it's just 2 cards.
Anybody tried this already or spots something I might be missing?
How could not any opponent simply win faster or destroy your brittle plan? (By the way, I have already explored such option in my primer.)
I appreciate all the work you've put in that primer, but I don't quite agree on many conclusions, and a lot of them certainly don't apply to the current Fraying Sanity versions, where we play a different game, with early disruption and removal, Fraying sanity and then mill them out.
I'm still not saying it is actually a good plan against leylines, I have only tried it twice so far, and won 1 and lost the other, so a lot more testing needs to be done.
As KeithsGenome mentioned, matches against leyline aren't usually a race, specially when they often mulligan a couple of times to get it in play t0.
This game plan is no longer than our usual one, so staying alive is just the same.
Milling their deck is not delaying them usually (except if their deck is very light on threats and you happen to mill all of them), it actually is more frequently speeding their play (facilitating delver threats, and other graveyard based strategies). So we would use removal and discard to thwart them, fraying sanity ourselves, and mill, just as usual.
My main concern is being vulnerable to graveyard hate removing any of those cards from the graveyard, but we've got a couple of turns to decide if we want to commit to that plan or wait for a fragmentize/disenchant and go the traditional route. So if they also play leyline of the void, or rest in peace, or start with relic/nihil spellbomb, we might have to stay with our traditional plan.
This could also be a viable alternative win con against Emrakul decks.
Blood Moon is very bad for the Esper version, since it also keeps our hand full and makes bridge useless.
A t2 or t3 blood moon is as close to gg as it gets for me, even worse than t0 Leyline.
UB versions can do A LOT better against Blood Moon, but then leyline is killer. Echoing truth and Set Adrift are just bad answers.
Why Set Adrift is a bad answer?
If they put Leyline t0 Im forced to mill myself with crabs and can mill myself with other spells too
Then I Set Adrift usually for 1 mana and mill it with Manic Scribe, Crab, Orb or other mill spells
Also Set Adrift can be used on other permanents
I do not think that Set adrift is a bad answer if you can partner it will a mill spell that same turn. I would not use it with Manic Scribe due to it killing off your delirium. I have been testing Commit // Memory with mixed results. It is slower to cast but gives you an extra turn to mill it away and of course NEVER casting memory
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It's bad because you need to pair it with mill to actually be removal, it is sorcery speed and needs to delve a bunch of cards!
Compare that to fragmentize or disenchant that deal with the threat for 1 or 2 mana, one at instant speed, with no extra needs.
That's why I say they're bad answers. They're the best UB can provide (that's why I mentioned them), but that doesn't change the fact that they're clunky and bad compared to other more standard answers available in other color combinations.
I do not think that Set adrift is a bad answer if you can partner it will a mill spell that same turn. I would not use it with Manic Scribe due to it killing off your delirium. I have been testing Commit // Memory with mixed results. It is slower to cast but gives you an extra turn to mill it away and of course NEVER casting memory
Commit becomes a pretty hard removal when you've got an Orb in play for sure. In the same vein, Unexpectedly Absent does almost the same thing (not spells) for half the cost, but WW is kind of a dealbreaker I think.
I do not think that Set adrift is a bad answer if you can partner it will a mill spell that same turn. I would not use it with Manic Scribe due to it killing off your delirium. I have been testing Commit // Memory with mixed results. It is slower to cast but gives you an extra turn to mill it away and of course NEVER casting memory
Commit becomes a pretty hard removal when you've got an Orb in play for sure. In the same vein, Unexpectedly Absent does almost the same thing (not spells) for half the cost, but WW is kind of a dealbreaker I think.
Also if you are running white already you have the better enchantment removal
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Lantern, Ad Nauseam, Storm, Aura, Boros Prison are the typical decks playing Leyline of Sanctity in the 75 right now. Boros Prison, Jeskai Nahiri, Blue Moon, Goryo's Vengeance, Krak-Clan Ironworks on the other hand are the decks sporting at least an Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. It seems to that each and every of them can win faster than us or disrupt our Unburial Rites + Laboratory Maniac combo:
Lantern: Abrupt Decay and Surgical Extraction.
Ad Nauseam: fast wins (even with fewer cards than normal).
Storm: fast wins (even with fewer cards than normal), Blood Moon.
Aura: fast wins (even with fewer cards than normal), Path to Exile (meaning we couldn't adopt the same plan twice against them, which is a serious problem since we wouldn't have another plan against them).
Boros Prison: Blood Moon, Chalice of the Void, maybe a Boil.
Jeskai Nahiri: counterspells.
Blue Moon: Blood Moon, counterspells.
Goryo's Vengeance: fast wins (even with fewer cards than normal), Blood Moon.
Krak-Clan Ironworks, fast wins (even with fewer cards than normal).
All this sometimes accompanied by reactive cards from time to time incidentally good against us: creature/artifact/permament removals, meaning we cannot rely on that Hedron Crab or Mesmeric Orb not even post side. I would never play a transforming sideboard that can never win; what about you? Please tell me if I am missing something.
Well, yeah, what you're missing is that I still have 2 Fragmentize and 2 Disenchant (split to avoid Chalice on 1) that I bring in against Leyline/Blood Moon/Chalice, and Extraction effects/Crypt Incursion against Emrakul. Definitely NOT a transforming sideboard, just an alternative after seeing the first turns develop.
If they start with Leyline and you don't have an answer but have a decent regular mill hand, you can keep it, mill yourself and attempt this instead of waiting for an answer to come.
Please don't say "mulligan until you have an answer in hand" instead, because with 4 answers, that will fail more frequently than this alternative plan. That plan most times ends up with a mediocre or bad 4 card hand that still doesn't have the answer (I've had several free wins from opponents mulliganing to 2 to find a leyline and failing).
The thing you might face after sideboard and could be an issue is graveyard hate. In my experience they bring that in (relics, spellbomb, etc) even if they don't affect our gameplan much.
Obviously, there will always be answers to everything in Magic (counterspells as a reason not to run something is pretty dumb). And again, I'm not saying this is a good plan, just that I think it's worth a try since it's only 2 cards, as an addition to our "traditional" sideboard answers.
It's bad because you need to pair it with mill to actually be removal, it is sorcery speed and needs to delve a bunch of cards!
Compare that to fragmentize or disenchant that deal with the threat for 1 or 2 mana, one at instant speed, with no extra needs.
That's why I say they're bad answers. They're the best UB can provide (that's why I mentioned them), but that doesn't change the fact that they're clunky and bad compared to other more standard answers available in other color combinations.
Disenchant easily can be a dead card in hand compared to Set Adrift. Setup is almost free, opponent wont be fast and have Leyline. Its always a removal just sometimes they draw their card again. Though they can be out of mana to cast it.
Im not saying Set Adrift is great, yes its sorcery and needs setup. But Disenchant and Fragmentize also far from excellent cards (also Fragmentize is weak to Chalice and Disenchant costs 2 which can be more than Set Adrift)
Gotta disagree with that. Echoing Truth is card disadvantage, Set Adrift keeps it card-neutral at least (your opponent will use their draw step to get it back), and can be removal if you have a Mesmeric Orb out. Echoing Truth is nice that it's instant, but usually Set Adrift is a better card. If you're running Orbs, I think it's the way to go.
Hi, everyone. First time posting here. Just wanted to share an event report from my first night of playing with Fraying Sanity. It's been a while since I've dusted off the old Glimpses, but seeing some people here having success with Fraying Sanity made me eager to try it out. First off, here's the 75 I ran with:
Round 1 - Kelvin on Budget Mono-U Mill Game 1 - Wow, the mill mirror to start (and I'm the only one of us running fetch lands...). I start with a fetch land, he leads on basic Island Hedron Crab. I fetch at the end of his turn, and he hits me with double Archive Trap. I have a slow start and he goes Mind Sculpt, Evolving Wilds for double landfall triggers, and double Tome Scour for the win. Sideboarding: -2 Mesmeric Orb, -2 Crypt Incursion, -2 Ensnaring Bridge; +2 Leyline of Sanctity, +2 Dispel, +1 Negate, +1 Collective Brutality. Game 2 - I lead with Inquisition to take a Mana Leak; he leads on Crab. I collective Brutality to kill his crab and make him discard a second Mana Leak. At this point I know he's holding 2 Fraying Sanity. I end up milling a Sanity and nabbing it with Extirpate to strip one out of his hand. I assemble double sanity and eventually draw into a Breaking for the win. Game 3 - I open with Leyline of Sanctity and I'm pretty sure his deck just didn't have a single out to it. Pretty much a non-game.
1-0 (2-1 games)
Round 2 - James on Scapeshift Game 1 - I open on Swamp - Inquisition and see Scapeshift, double Search for Tomorrow, Farseek, STE, and two lands. I take a Search. He suspends a Search and I Glimpse him on turn 2. He plays STE and cracks it, and I Archive Trap him. He plays a turn 4 or 5 Primeval Titan which I follow up with an Ensnaring Bridge. Shortly after that I mill the rest of his mountains and he can't win. Sideboarding: -3 Fatal Push; +1 Negate, +2 Leyline of Sanctity Game 2 - My opening hand is 2 lands, 3 Archive Traps, and I can't remember what else. He fetches on turn 2 and gets hit for 39. I untap and Glimpse him on my turn 2 to leave him with 1 card in his library. Whole game took about a minute and a half.
2-0 (4-1 games)
Round 3 - James on UR Gifts Storm Game 1 - I have a timely Fatal Push for his turn 2 Baral that slows him down for a bit. I hit with with an Archive Trap after he fetches a basic Mountain and mill both of his basic Islands. This lets me Ghost Quarter him to take him off of Gifts mana for a turn and get there with Glimpse and Breaking. Sideboarding: -3 Ensnaring Bridge, -2 Crypt Incursion, -1 Inquisition, -1 Path; +2 Dispel, +1 Negate, +1 Engineered Explosives, +2 Leyline of Sanctity, +1 Collective Brutality Game 2 - I open with Leyline , he opens with Serum Visions. I don't play around his sideboard Blood Moon, though, and I'm left with 1 Island and a bunch of Mountains. He eventually casts a big Empty that I'm able to sweep up with Explosives, but he ends up just playing all 4 Goblin Electromancers and beating down with an army of 2/2's. Sideboarding: -1 Mesmeric Orb; +1 Damnation Game 3 - This was a heck of a game. I start doing my mill thing, he plays a Baral, and I kill it. He eventually gets down to around half of his deck milled and I draw an Extirpate. I choose to Extirpate his Past in Flames instead of his Gifts, which I'm almost positive is the correct choice (which seems obvious in hindsight, but I tanked for a decent bit about it in the game). He eventually sticks a Baral that I can't remove while I have 3 lands in play and a hand that consists of Damnation and Archive Trap. He goes through a bunch of rituals and casts Gifts; since he doesn't have Past in Flames anymore, I just give him more rituals and put card draw spells in his yard. He then goes through those rituals and casts a second Gifts. This was my worst misplay of the night, IMO. For some reason I don't think to Archive Trap him in response to this Gifts and just let him search again. I give him more rituals and he ends up making 18 Goblins. My outs at this point are untapped land for Damnation or Explosives. I topdeck Explosives. Once the goblins are cleared, I'm able to stick a Fraying Sanity and eventually finish him off with a Breaking.
3-0 (6-2 games)
Round 4 - Candice on Affinity Game 1 - She has a turn 2 Ravager that I attempt to Path on her end step; she just moves its counter to an Ornithopter and starts pecking away with Inkmoth/Ornithopter/Signal Pest beats for a few turns. I end up extracting her Ravagers and her Platings, but I eventually lose to the 2 Infect a turn. Sideboarding: -3 Archive Trap, -2 Fraying Sanity, -1 Inquisition; +2 Disenchant, +1 Fragmentize, +1 Engineered Explosives, +1 Damnation, +1 Crypt Incursion Game 2 - I open on Inquisition and see a hand of 2 lands, 3 Vault Skirge, Ornithopter, Master of Etherium. I have an Engineered Explosives in hand for the Skirges so I take the Master. I lead with some mill spells to give her time to deploy all 3 Skirges. I eventually assemble double Fraying Sanity, but I'm once again being poked down by Inkmoth Nexus. I eventually get down to just a few life and 9 poison and topdeck a Glimpse for 40 and the win. Game 3 - She opens with a couple of Ornithopers; I open with an Inquisition that has to take a Blood Moon. She plays a Steel Overseer on turn 2 that is met with a Fatal Push. I believe I fetch-shocked to cast this Fatal Push. I remember thinking at the time that I shouldn't be shocking against Affinity, but I didn't it anyways for some reason. We got through a couple of slow turns where all she has are Ornithopters and Springleaf Drums. During this time, I land a Fraying Sanity. She then plays and equips a Cranial Plating, making a 7-power Ornithopter while I'm at 14. Her board at this point was double Ornithoper, Plating, double Spring Leaf, Mountain, double Darksteel Citadel, Spire of Industry. I go to 7. On my turn, I have 3 mana available with Breaking, Path, and Crypt Incursion in hand. She only had a few creatures in her graveyard at the time, so I took the high-risk/high-reward line of Breaking + hold up Path. This milled an additional 16 cards but left me dead to a topdecked creature, Glimmervoid, Spire, or Mox Opal. If I could dodge this one draw step, I'd be able to Crypt Incursion for a massive amount of life the next turn and get several more draw steps. Sadly she drew a Vault Skirge and was able to attack with both Ornithopters for exact lethal after the Path. I'm not sure if that line was correct or not, but I still think I had a better shot of winning the game this way instead of just delaying the inevitable for a turn.
3-1 (7-4 games)
Overall, I was very impressed with Fraying Sanity. I milled more cards tonight with Fraying Sanity than I've ever milled with Mind Funeral. This was also the first time I've run a list with 4x Breaking, and I was impressed there, as well. One benefit of Sanity was that topdecked mill spells late in the game were essentially instant kills, so I appreciated having a higher density of mill spells.
Regarding my play, I think it was a mistake to more board in Murderous Cut against Affinity, and I'm pretty upset with myself for not Archive Trapping in response to the Gift Storm player's second Gifts in a turn. I'm also not super pleased with my sideboard in general, but that's to be expected when you just throw the deck together a few minutes for a tournament. Anyways, I've droned on long enough.
I'm the Mill Player who was on coverage and ended 42nd at GP Birmingham.
My list is in the article here
(The Dispel in the sideboard should be a second Set Adrift, but I lost one and couldn't buy one on site!)
I used to play the all in "burn" style with 4 Breaking etc., but a few months ago switched to the somewhat slower style with 4 Orbs, 4 Scribe, and have never looked back.
Manic Scribe in particular is a great card in this deck - aside from the obvious continuous milling (since with 4 Orb it's pretty easy to get delirium), having 3 toughness is excellent - it gives you a chance against decks that would otherwise just run you over, and slows down more controlling decks that want to get in some Snapcaster beats, helping you to mill them out with itself/Orbs.
The other key thing about Scribe & Orb is that they don't target, so you still have game when the opponent has a Leyline in play (which is all too often these days), keeping the milling happening, blocking 2 power creatures, and letting you survive to when you bounce the Leyline (and if they counter your bounce spell, hey ho, more Orb milling).
I see that people are discussing Set Adrift/Echoing Truth; I run both in the SB, but would never go below 2 Echoing Truth. It's an incredibly versatile card, bouncing tokens, buying you extra turns in grindy games (which can make all the difference), answering their sideboard cards (Leyline, Wheel, Blood Moon etc., etc.), and occasionally ruining someone's day by bouncing their Phyrexian Unlife or whatever. That last example obviously doesn't happen often, but it's a good example of why Truth is great - no matter what odd thing your opponent is doing (and let's face it, Modern is full of rogue decks), it almost always gives you some kind of interaction.
I think one of the most important things about Echoing Truth is simply that it's an instant, so you can bounce their Leyline or whatever in their end step and have all your mana next turn to blast them before they can replay it. Also good that it hits multiple copies, as some people will play a second leyline during the game.
I also like Set Adrift for its ability to be "U, destroy target permanent" - I don't think it's a nonbo with Scribe because between fetchlands, Ghost Quarter, the fact that this is a fairly "active" deck, and - crucially - milling yourself with Orbs, taking yourself off Delirium almost never happens. When you're casting it, you probably have at least 10 cards in your own yard, and you only need to leave 3 different ones (Set Adrift being a Sorcery itself).
Pretty awesome being on a feature article; great job!
I was wondering a few things:
1) How did Jace's Phantasm perform in your 60? Would you consider removing, and for what?
2) Why and against who did you bring in thought scour from the SB?
3) Same question for profane momento.
Most importantly; where can I find a video of your play?
Thanks!
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Eldrazi and Taxes (under construction)
Modern: Eldrazi Tron (All sanctioned events; Record: 38-9-2 over ~12 Wed/Fri Night Modern events: 78% match win rate; last updated 9.13.17)
Jeskai Harbinger
Naya Burn (20-6-2 over multiple 1K and FNM events; retired)
Building: Esper control and a mill deck for fun and some variety.
My experience is if you go with the Manic Scribe style of deck then he has to stay because you need 12 creatures in order to ensure delirium on a somewhat consistent basis. I've had enough experience running 4x Crab and 4x Scribe to be stuck on 3 card types for delirium (land/sorcery/instant) that would make you want to cut Scribe and think he is terrible. Some games you will Trap turn 1 or Glimpse turn 2 and drop 2-4 JP's and the opponent has no answer. JP can also be one of your best top decks in the mid/late game because his clock is faster than drawing a couple mill spells or your worst top deck (when an opponent is under 10 cards in library and you are dead on board next turn) based on the situation. If you read through the last 30 pages of this thread the argument of Jace's Phantasm and Ensnaring Bridge is a repeated topic of discussion and you can probably see me arguing both for both cards.
What brought you to the conclusion to use 2 sideboard slots for a card like Thoughtscour as opposed to a high impact card that can win a difficult matchup like Stony Silence?
Gets to delerium sometimes with 6 card types in the deck. I never count on archive trap to hit, great when it does, a great gatcha moment. The ravenous trap helps deal with the graveyard reshufflers and can mess with dredge or living end. Crypt incursion also does that but will allow the non-creatures to get shuffled back in. Surgical effects only get rid of the one card and all copies will not stop the reset. Though it is really hard to argue with his results, 42nd and in top 8 contention through round 12.
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So I've finally! found a LGS that does FNModern. Looking to whip my deck into shape, particularly my sideboard. Right now, I have an all-or nothing sideboard, targeting the decks and cards I am weakest to, namely, Infect, Affinity, Leyline of Sanctity and Chalice of the Void. Thus, I have the following in the sideboard:
I'm pretty sure, with both Affinity and Infect on the outs right now, that I can replace Melira and Hurkyl's.
I'm not sure how popular Chalice is, but it rather wrecks the deck without a way to remove it or proliferate off of our number. Thus the Nature's Claim, Tezzeret's Gambit and Steady Progress should stay. NC also removes Leyline of Sanctity.
Is CoCo a big enough threat that Grafdigger's Cage should stay?
As for adds, I'm not sure what is popular out there atm, other than, of course, Eldrazi decks and Death's Shadow. I'm thinking adding 4x Ravenous Trap and 4x Profane Memento and leaving the rest much the same.
Any ideas warnings or hints?
As for the deck itself, it is BUg. All the green is in the sideboard, and the mana comes from 2x Verdant Catacombs, 2x Misty Rainforest, and a single copy of Breeding Pool and Overgrown Tomb. Maybe enough, maybe not. I can adjust the manapool later. The build runs Ensnaring Bridge, 4 Snapcaster and no Orbs, FSanity or Crabs. Full list here: https://deckbox.org/sets/1378327 Sideboard shows some other possibilities.
Tormod's Crypt is the best answer to Emrakul, as it stops their graveyard from recycling. While Relic and Crook can also do this, Tormod's Crypt does it for free. Non-bo with Crypt Incursion, however.
You should have a certain number of Surgical Extraction/Extirpate in your deck to take advantage of the free wins and crippling of their deck, such as by exiling an Urza land vs any of the various tron decks, or exiling allcopies of Griselbrand, Death's Shadow, Living End or other storm cards, or in general, any card you know to be vital to their gameplan. Slowing them down means beating them. Often they just scoop.
@
@Daeyel : Infect is indeed down but affi is still very much alive and a force to be recon with
As for your list you seem to have a much higher curve than most on this thread, with little anti creature ou sweeper so bit awkward :-s
Ensnaring Bridge is in place of a sweeper. You are correct, I should add one. Languish, perhaps?
How can I deal against an Emrakul. If I cast a Crypt Incursion or an Extirpate in response could it works?
I play an UB mill deck.
Regards.
I use ravenous trap as it exiles the whole gy where crypt only exile the creatures and extirpate/surgical only gets rid of the reshufflers but the reshuffle trigger still happens and still undoes most of what you have done so far. Think of it as life gain vs burn.
Tormod's Crypt is the best answer to Emrakul, as it stops their graveyard from recycling. While Relic and Crook can also do this, Tormod's Crypt does it for free. Non-bo with Crypt Incursion, however.
You should have a certain number of Surgical Extraction/Extirpate in your deck to take advantage of the free wins and crippling of their deck, such as by exiling an Urza land vs any of the various tron decks, or exiling allcopies of Griselbrand, Death's Shadow, Living End or other storm cards, or in general, any card you know to be vital to their gameplan. Slowing them down means beating them. Often they just scoop.
Emrakul's shuffle trigger goes on the stack even if you exile him with Crypt Incursion or Surgical Extraction. So sure, you get rid of him, but your opponent just shuffled 20 (or 40) cards from their graveyard back into their deck. Pretty crippling.
None of those cards you mentioned stops any Zenith cards, they never go to an opponent's graveyard to be able to exile them.
The best answer to Emrakul is Hide//Seek pre-emptively, but Rest in Peace is probably the next best since you don't need to hold up mana for it - it's a constant effect. If you're on the Mesmeric Orb, Snapcaster type plan of using your own graveyard, or you're in UB instead of Esper Leyline of the Void is pretty good. Only downside is it doesn't exile cards already in a graveyard, so if you're not hitting it in your opening hand it's not quite as good.
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The decks that run Leyline tend to be the kind of decks that don't win fast.
I think it's a legit option to have in the sideboard, especially if you're playing creatureless. Your opponent will probably board out their removal, allowing you to keep LabMan around easier. I would also want to bring in stuff to slow the game down (Bridge/Prison, more removal for you) to hopefully get there. I think Orb is a key piece here, as it allows you to blast through your deck as quickly as possible. Also hanging onto a Visions in your hand allows you to respond at instant speed if there's <3 cards in your deck. I think for Esper though, Disenchant/Fragmentize are probably more reliable options, and they also allow you to play around Blood Moon, which I've found screws me pretty hard.
I appreciate all the work you've put in that primer, but I don't quite agree on many conclusions, and a lot of them certainly don't apply to the current Fraying Sanity versions, where we play a different game, with early disruption and removal, Fraying sanity and then mill them out.
I'm still not saying it is actually a good plan against leylines, I have only tried it twice so far, and won 1 and lost the other, so a lot more testing needs to be done.
As KeithsGenome mentioned, matches against leyline aren't usually a race, specially when they often mulligan a couple of times to get it in play t0.
This game plan is no longer than our usual one, so staying alive is just the same.
Milling their deck is not delaying them usually (except if their deck is very light on threats and you happen to mill all of them), it actually is more frequently speeding their play (facilitating delver threats, and other graveyard based strategies). So we would use removal and discard to thwart them, fraying sanity ourselves, and mill, just as usual.
My main concern is being vulnerable to graveyard hate removing any of those cards from the graveyard, but we've got a couple of turns to decide if we want to commit to that plan or wait for a fragmentize/disenchant and go the traditional route. So if they also play leyline of the void, or rest in peace, or start with relic/nihil spellbomb, we might have to stay with our traditional plan.
This could also be a viable alternative win con against Emrakul decks.
Blood Moon is very bad for the Esper version, since it also keeps our hand full and makes bridge useless.
A t2 or t3 blood moon is as close to gg as it gets for me, even worse than t0 Leyline.
UB versions can do A LOT better against Blood Moon, but then leyline is killer. Echoing truth and Set Adrift are just bad answers.
If they put Leyline t0 Im forced to mill myself with crabs and can mill myself with other spells too
Then I Set Adrift usually for 1 mana and mill it with Manic Scribe, Crab, Orb or other mill spells
Also Set Adrift can be used on other permanents
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
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Compare that to fragmentize or disenchant that deal with the threat for 1 or 2 mana, one at instant speed, with no extra needs.
That's why I say they're bad answers. They're the best UB can provide (that's why I mentioned them), but that doesn't change the fact that they're clunky and bad compared to other more standard answers available in other color combinations.
Commit becomes a pretty hard removal when you've got an Orb in play for sure. In the same vein, Unexpectedly Absent does almost the same thing (not spells) for half the cost, but WW is kind of a dealbreaker I think.
Also if you are running white already you have the better enchantment removal
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Well, yeah, what you're missing is that I still have 2 Fragmentize and 2 Disenchant (split to avoid Chalice on 1) that I bring in against Leyline/Blood Moon/Chalice, and Extraction effects/Crypt Incursion against Emrakul. Definitely NOT a transforming sideboard, just an alternative after seeing the first turns develop.
If they start with Leyline and you don't have an answer but have a decent regular mill hand, you can keep it, mill yourself and attempt this instead of waiting for an answer to come.
Please don't say "mulligan until you have an answer in hand" instead, because with 4 answers, that will fail more frequently than this alternative plan. That plan most times ends up with a mediocre or bad 4 card hand that still doesn't have the answer (I've had several free wins from opponents mulliganing to 2 to find a leyline and failing).
The thing you might face after sideboard and could be an issue is graveyard hate. In my experience they bring that in (relics, spellbomb, etc) even if they don't affect our gameplan much.
Obviously, there will always be answers to everything in Magic (counterspells as a reason not to run something is pretty dumb). And again, I'm not saying this is a good plan, just that I think it's worth a try since it's only 2 cards, as an addition to our "traditional" sideboard answers.
Im not saying Set Adrift is great, yes its sorcery and needs setup. But Disenchant and Fragmentize also far from excellent cards (also Fragmentize is weak to Chalice and Disenchant costs 2 which can be more than Set Adrift)
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
Gotta disagree with that. Echoing Truth is card disadvantage, Set Adrift keeps it card-neutral at least (your opponent will use their draw step to get it back), and can be removal if you have a Mesmeric Orb out. Echoing Truth is nice that it's instant, but usually Set Adrift is a better card. If you're running Orbs, I think it's the way to go.
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Fetid Pools
2 Flooded Strand
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
1 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
3 Fatal Push
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Path to Exile
Utility (12)
2 Crypt Incursion
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Extirpate
2 Surgical Extraction
4 Visions of Beyond
Mill (17)
4 Archive Trap
4 Breaking//Entering
3 Fraying Sanity
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
2 Mesmeric Orb
1 Collective Brutality
1 Crypt Incursion
1 Damnation
2 Disenchant
2 Dispel
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Fragmentize
2 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Murderous Cut
1 Negate
2 Set Adrift
Round 1 - Kelvin on Budget Mono-U Mill
Game 1 - Wow, the mill mirror to start (and I'm the only one of us running fetch lands...). I start with a fetch land, he leads on basic Island Hedron Crab. I fetch at the end of his turn, and he hits me with double Archive Trap. I have a slow start and he goes Mind Sculpt, Evolving Wilds for double landfall triggers, and double Tome Scour for the win.
Sideboarding: -2 Mesmeric Orb, -2 Crypt Incursion, -2 Ensnaring Bridge; +2 Leyline of Sanctity, +2 Dispel, +1 Negate, +1 Collective Brutality.
Game 2 - I lead with Inquisition to take a Mana Leak; he leads on Crab. I collective Brutality to kill his crab and make him discard a second Mana Leak. At this point I know he's holding 2 Fraying Sanity. I end up milling a Sanity and nabbing it with Extirpate to strip one out of his hand. I assemble double sanity and eventually draw into a Breaking for the win.
Game 3 - I open with Leyline of Sanctity and I'm pretty sure his deck just didn't have a single out to it. Pretty much a non-game.
1-0 (2-1 games)
Round 2 - James on Scapeshift
Game 1 - I open on Swamp - Inquisition and see Scapeshift, double Search for Tomorrow, Farseek, STE, and two lands. I take a Search. He suspends a Search and I Glimpse him on turn 2. He plays STE and cracks it, and I Archive Trap him. He plays a turn 4 or 5 Primeval Titan which I follow up with an Ensnaring Bridge. Shortly after that I mill the rest of his mountains and he can't win.
Sideboarding: -3 Fatal Push; +1 Negate, +2 Leyline of Sanctity
Game 2 - My opening hand is 2 lands, 3 Archive Traps, and I can't remember what else. He fetches on turn 2 and gets hit for 39. I untap and Glimpse him on my turn 2 to leave him with 1 card in his library. Whole game took about a minute and a half.
2-0 (4-1 games)
Round 3 - James on UR Gifts Storm
Game 1 - I have a timely Fatal Push for his turn 2 Baral that slows him down for a bit. I hit with with an Archive Trap after he fetches a basic Mountain and mill both of his basic Islands. This lets me Ghost Quarter him to take him off of Gifts mana for a turn and get there with Glimpse and Breaking.
Sideboarding: -3 Ensnaring Bridge, -2 Crypt Incursion, -1 Inquisition, -1 Path; +2 Dispel, +1 Negate, +1 Engineered Explosives, +2 Leyline of Sanctity, +1 Collective Brutality
Game 2 - I open with Leyline , he opens with Serum Visions. I don't play around his sideboard Blood Moon, though, and I'm left with 1 Island and a bunch of Mountains. He eventually casts a big Empty that I'm able to sweep up with Explosives, but he ends up just playing all 4 Goblin Electromancers and beating down with an army of 2/2's.
Sideboarding: -1 Mesmeric Orb; +1 Damnation
Game 3 - This was a heck of a game. I start doing my mill thing, he plays a Baral, and I kill it. He eventually gets down to around half of his deck milled and I draw an Extirpate. I choose to Extirpate his Past in Flames instead of his Gifts, which I'm almost positive is the correct choice (which seems obvious in hindsight, but I tanked for a decent bit about it in the game). He eventually sticks a Baral that I can't remove while I have 3 lands in play and a hand that consists of Damnation and Archive Trap. He goes through a bunch of rituals and casts Gifts; since he doesn't have Past in Flames anymore, I just give him more rituals and put card draw spells in his yard. He then goes through those rituals and casts a second Gifts. This was my worst misplay of the night, IMO. For some reason I don't think to Archive Trap him in response to this Gifts and just let him search again. I give him more rituals and he ends up making 18 Goblins. My outs at this point are untapped land for Damnation or Explosives. I topdeck Explosives. Once the goblins are cleared, I'm able to stick a Fraying Sanity and eventually finish him off with a Breaking.
3-0 (6-2 games)
Round 4 - Candice on Affinity
Game 1 - She has a turn 2 Ravager that I attempt to Path on her end step; she just moves its counter to an Ornithopter and starts pecking away with Inkmoth/Ornithopter/Signal Pest beats for a few turns. I end up extracting her Ravagers and her Platings, but I eventually lose to the 2 Infect a turn.
Sideboarding: -3 Archive Trap, -2 Fraying Sanity, -1 Inquisition; +2 Disenchant, +1 Fragmentize, +1 Engineered Explosives, +1 Damnation, +1 Crypt Incursion
Game 2 - I open on Inquisition and see a hand of 2 lands, 3 Vault Skirge, Ornithopter, Master of Etherium. I have an Engineered Explosives in hand for the Skirges so I take the Master. I lead with some mill spells to give her time to deploy all 3 Skirges. I eventually assemble double Fraying Sanity, but I'm once again being poked down by Inkmoth Nexus. I eventually get down to just a few life and 9 poison and topdeck a Glimpse for 40 and the win.
Game 3 - She opens with a couple of Ornithopers; I open with an Inquisition that has to take a Blood Moon. She plays a Steel Overseer on turn 2 that is met with a Fatal Push. I believe I fetch-shocked to cast this Fatal Push. I remember thinking at the time that I shouldn't be shocking against Affinity, but I didn't it anyways for some reason. We got through a couple of slow turns where all she has are Ornithopters and Springleaf Drums. During this time, I land a Fraying Sanity. She then plays and equips a Cranial Plating, making a 7-power Ornithopter while I'm at 14. Her board at this point was double Ornithoper, Plating, double Spring Leaf, Mountain, double Darksteel Citadel, Spire of Industry. I go to 7. On my turn, I have 3 mana available with Breaking, Path, and Crypt Incursion in hand. She only had a few creatures in her graveyard at the time, so I took the high-risk/high-reward line of Breaking + hold up Path. This milled an additional 16 cards but left me dead to a topdecked creature, Glimmervoid, Spire, or Mox Opal. If I could dodge this one draw step, I'd be able to Crypt Incursion for a massive amount of life the next turn and get several more draw steps. Sadly she drew a Vault Skirge and was able to attack with both Ornithopters for exact lethal after the Path. I'm not sure if that line was correct or not, but I still think I had a better shot of winning the game this way instead of just delaying the inevitable for a turn.
3-1 (7-4 games)
Overall, I was very impressed with Fraying Sanity. I milled more cards tonight with Fraying Sanity than I've ever milled with Mind Funeral. This was also the first time I've run a list with 4x Breaking, and I was impressed there, as well. One benefit of Sanity was that topdecked mill spells late in the game were essentially instant kills, so I appreciated having a higher density of mill spells.
Regarding my play, I think it was a mistake to more board in Murderous Cut against Affinity, and I'm pretty upset with myself for not Archive Trapping in response to the Gift Storm player's second Gifts in a turn. I'm also not super pleased with my sideboard in general, but that's to be expected when you just throw the deck together a few minutes for a tournament. Anyways, I've droned on long enough.
TL;DR: Fraying Sanity is great. Mill is fun.
First game we got a mill player against Fairies (no spoilers) , anyone got this decklist ? I hope his come to this forum give a feedback.
After read a lot of fraying , i will put one in my deck see if this go well. Some issues happened and i didn't play at the GP
Pretty awesome being on a feature article; great job!
I was wondering a few things:
1) How did Jace's Phantasm perform in your 60? Would you consider removing, and for what?
2) Why and against who did you bring in thought scour from the SB?
3) Same question for profane momento.
Most importantly; where can I find a video of your play?
Thanks!
Eldrazi and Taxes (under construction)
Modern: Eldrazi Tron (All sanctioned events; Record: 38-9-2 over ~12 Wed/Fri Night Modern events: 78% match win rate; last updated 9.13.17)
Jeskai Harbinger
Naya Burn (20-6-2 over multiple 1K and FNM events; retired)
Building: Esper control and a mill deck for fun and some variety.
What brought you to the conclusion to use 2 sideboard slots for a card like Thoughtscour as opposed to a high impact card that can win a difficult matchup like Stony Silence?
2 Darkslick Shores
1 Flooded Strand
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Ipnu Rivulet
3 Island
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
3 Watery Grave
4 Archive Trap
2 Crypt Incursion
2 Ravenous Trap
4 Visions of Beyond
Sorcery
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
3 Mind Funeral
Artifact
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Mesmeric Orb
Enchantment
4 Fraying Sanity
Creatures
4 Hedron Crab
4 Manic Scribe
1 Crypt Incursion
2 Disenchant
3 Echoing Truth
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Path to Exile
1 Plains
2 Profane Memento
2 Stony Silence
Gets to delerium sometimes with 6 card types in the deck. I never count on archive trap to hit, great when it does, a great gatcha moment. The ravenous trap helps deal with the graveyard reshufflers and can mess with dredge or living end. Crypt incursion also does that but will allow the non-creatures to get shuffled back in. Surgical effects only get rid of the one card and all copies will not stop the reset. Though it is really hard to argue with his results, 42nd and in top 8 contention through round 12.
CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy
GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard
GRGR Pummeler
4x Melira, Sylvok Outcast
2x Nature's Claim
2x Grafdigger's Cage
4x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Tezzeret's Gambit
2x Steady Progress
I'm pretty sure, with both Affinity and Infect on the outs right now, that I can replace Melira and Hurkyl's.
I'm not sure how popular Chalice is, but it rather wrecks the deck without a way to remove it or proliferate off of our number. Thus the Nature's Claim, Tezzeret's Gambit and Steady Progress should stay. NC also removes Leyline of Sanctity.
Is CoCo a big enough threat that Grafdigger's Cage should stay?
As for adds, I'm not sure what is popular out there atm, other than, of course, Eldrazi decks and Death's Shadow. I'm thinking adding 4x Ravenous Trap and 4x Profane Memento and leaving the rest much the same.
Any ideas warnings or hints?
As for the deck itself, it is BUg. All the green is in the sideboard, and the mana comes from 2x Verdant Catacombs, 2x Misty Rainforest, and a single copy of Breeding Pool and Overgrown Tomb. Maybe enough, maybe not. I can adjust the manapool later. The build runs Ensnaring Bridge, 4 Snapcaster and no Orbs, FSanity or Crabs. Full list here: https://deckbox.org/sets/1378327 Sideboard shows some other possibilities.
Crypt Incursion.
To deal with a recycler of any kind, such as various Sun's Zenith, and a host of cards I won't name, choose from the following:
Surgical Extraction, Extirpate, Tormod's Crypt, Relic of Progenitus or Crook of Condemnation
Tormod's Crypt is the best answer to Emrakul, as it stops their graveyard from recycling. While Relic and Crook can also do this, Tormod's Crypt does it for free. Non-bo with Crypt Incursion, however.
You should have a certain number of Surgical Extraction/Extirpate in your deck to take advantage of the free wins and crippling of their deck, such as by exiling an Urza land vs any of the various tron decks, or exiling allcopies of Griselbrand, Death's Shadow, Living End or other storm cards, or in general, any card you know to be vital to their gameplan. Slowing them down means beating them. Often they just scoop.
Ensnaring Bridge is in place of a sweeper. You are correct, I should add one. Languish, perhaps?
I use ravenous trap as it exiles the whole gy where crypt only exile the creatures and extirpate/surgical only gets rid of the reshufflers but the reshuffle trigger still happens and still undoes most of what you have done so far. Think of it as life gain vs burn.
Also if you are not running fraying sanity, using leyline of the void or rest in peace does the trick as well
CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy
GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard
GRGR Pummeler
Emrakul's shuffle trigger goes on the stack even if you exile him with Crypt Incursion or Surgical Extraction. So sure, you get rid of him, but your opponent just shuffled 20 (or 40) cards from their graveyard back into their deck. Pretty crippling.
None of those cards you mentioned stops any Zenith cards, they never go to an opponent's graveyard to be able to exile them.
The best answer to Emrakul is Hide//Seek pre-emptively, but Rest in Peace is probably the next best since you don't need to hold up mana for it - it's a constant effect. If you're on the Mesmeric Orb, Snapcaster type plan of using your own graveyard, or you're in UB instead of Esper Leyline of the Void is pretty good. Only downside is it doesn't exile cards already in a graveyard, so if you're not hitting it in your opening hand it's not quite as good.