Birds arbor elf sprawl still suck to hit off bbe, but the swords make dorks better. Especially on your birds. I'm not sure no Sbds is best but im testing with this atm.
@Joban: That's a 63-card deck, really throwing me off there.
You know it. I like to live dangerously. I rarely ever stick to a MB that's exactly 60 cards; never go above 65 however. Just an odd habit that has stuck with me since I started playing as a youngin.
There is still 1 nonbo I don’t like between BBE and Trinisphere but in those matchups where I bring in Trinisphere I can side out BBE. Still not sold this is the build I am gonna stick with but I am gonna take some time to play test this and report back.
Is Trinisphere really that much of a nonbo with Bloodbraid Elf? Here's the list of things that you'd have to pay extra for with a Trinisphere in play if cascaded into: Arbor Elf, Utopia Sprawl, Lightning Bolt, and Mizzium Mortars. Those are also, incidentally, cards that have a high tendency to be really low impact by the time you're casting Bloodbraid Elf and thus less of a problem if you can't cast. Sure, it's a little suboptimal, but for it to be an actual disadvantage the following things all have to be true:
1) You need a Trinisphere in play when you cast Bloodbraid Elf.
2) You don't cascade into a 3 CMC card.
3) You don't have the extra mana to pay for the card.
Odds seem low that all of those will line up perfectly. Yes, it can happen, but it seems unlikely enough that there seems to not really be an issue with playing those cards together.
I think Trinisphere can still have a place in the deck, but I wouldn't want it in the main with BBE. In the side to bring in against Death's Shadow and combo decks? Sure, I'll take a nonbo with BBE over totally hamstringing what my opponent is doing.
that one for example is 10 1cc cards to 14 3cc cards. bloodbraid elf has 41% chance to fail since we don't want 1cc spells. 59% to get something good (3cc).
clearly we can customize the deck a little and shift those to more favorable 70% or mabye as high as 80%.
the bright side is we get a body for 4 mana and if it doesn't produce one of our good 3cc spells, its atleast getting a dead draw out of the way. i think thats value in itself, no one wants to draw another bird or any of the 1cc when we are extablished by turn 4 and beyond.
Ok so far I am making a swap of Thragtusk to the sb and bringing in one of the Finks to the main. It is like having the Huntmaster almost you gain life and a body. I may try to put both Finks in I just don’t know what to take out for it.
I hadn't actually considered the interaction between BloodBraid Elf and Trinisphere. What number of each do we consider to be too many to risk an unfavorable interaction? Or would we simply not play them in the same mainboard?
I hadn't actually considered the interaction between BloodBraid Elf and Trinisphere. What number of each do we consider to be too many to risk an unfavorable interaction? Or would we simply not play them in the same mainboard?
I put the Trinisphere in the sideboard. There are enough decks that don’t care about it to run it in the main. Running Trinisphere against the decks that will almost always give you a win (ie burn, infect, and storm) it might be ok to leave the 1 copy of BBE in with the potential to cascade into it.
I'm just thinking about the card drawing opportunities in the deck.
Also also, for what its worth, I'm firmly in the pro-Bloodbraid Elf camp.
So here is the situation you are looking at. The 2 cards you are looking to replace provide different things than what you are replacing them with.
For instance Jadelight Ranger vs Courser, Courser has 4 toughness so that is already better than Jadelight because Courser can’t simply be bolted. Bolt is going to be ran even more so now because of BBE. Also the incidental life gain is the bane of burn after you have gained 2 life you have caused the burn player to play yet another spell to close out the game and they won’t waste a Skullcrack to prevent it (I know this for certain as I am a red mage at heart and is the other deck I play for modern). So even though they are kinda similar I would give the nod to Courser
For your comparison between Brachwalker and Scooze, these are 2 completely different cards. Scooze is graveyard hate and also incidental life gain. Scooze can often get very big if gone unchecked. The thing we need to keep in mind is Snapcaster is going to be everywhere until Jace hype slows down, not to mention the uptick going to be seen in Goyf and KCommand because of BBE so having graveyard hate is going to be key. I think Relic or Grafdigger’s Cage is where you want to be though as they are not as easy to remove. Scooze can help supplement that plan though.
Jadelight is more of a replacement for Tireless Tracker. You trade late-game blowout potential and long term card draw for immediate filtering for a Cascade trigger and bigger creature up-front.
My concern with this build is that Kolaghan's Command is going to be everywhere once Jace and BBE are legal and artifacts are going to be dying like crazy.
Also, what do you all think the goal of this deck is? To me, this is a mix of mid-range ramp beatdown with prison where the disruption isn't removal or hand destruction but a specific mana denial plan. As a result, dropping to 1 Chandra and no Stormbreath or Titan feels like we are hurting our game plan.
My thought process was, taking out acid moss for molten rain allows us more t2 Ld, without stormbreath or inferno titan there is less need for the ramp from acid moss. K command will be good against the swords but our deck is typically already very good against k command decks. Hands without acceleration are almost must mulligan, the two xtra birds help get them in our opener, help get 2 red by turn 2 for molten rain, and are great targets for our swords. T1 bird t2 sword seems good.
I love stormbreath and it may be a mistake to not include him in the main but lower curve should assure we are never waiting for that one more land off the top or having two uncastable threats in our opener.
My thought process was, taking out acid moss for molten rain allows us more t2 Ld, without stormbreath or inferno titan there is less need for the ramp from acid moss. K command will be good against the swords but our deck is typically already very good against k command decks. Hands without acceleration are almost must mulligan, the two xtra birds help get them in our opener, help get 2 red by turn 2 for molten rain, and are great targets for our swords. T1 bird t2 sword seems good.
I love stormbreath and it may be a mistake to not include him in the main but lower curve should assure we are never waiting for that one more land off the top or having two uncastable threats in our opener.
I'd still leave 1-2 in the main as a curve topper. Cascading into ramp is inevitable, and he makes a bad situation slightly less bad.
I've been playing pretty much the same MTGO league list posted by WOTC aside from a couple changes. I like Kitchen Finks in the sideboard and Tireless Tracker in the main. I think Courser might be a good pick here, too. Going to try that iteration. I need some BR Hollow One hate, so I think I need to add Relic of Progenitus and Obstinate Baloth.
You know it. I like to live dangerously. I rarely ever stick to a MB that's exactly 60 cards; never go above 65 however. Just an odd habit that has stuck with me since I started playing as a youngin.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
1) You need a Trinisphere in play when you cast Bloodbraid Elf.
2) You don't cascade into a 3 CMC card.
3) You don't have the extra mana to pay for the card.
Odds seem low that all of those will line up perfectly. Yes, it can happen, but it seems unlikely enough that there seems to not really be an issue with playing those cards together.
that one for example is 10 1cc cards to 14 3cc cards. bloodbraid elf has 41% chance to fail since we don't want 1cc spells. 59% to get something good (3cc).
clearly we can customize the deck a little and shift those to more favorable 70% or mabye as high as 80%.
the bright side is we get a body for 4 mana and if it doesn't produce one of our good 3cc spells, its atleast getting a dead draw out of the way. i think thats value in itself, no one wants to draw another bird or any of the 1cc when we are extablished by turn 4 and beyond.
Also, what about Merfolk Branchwalker instead of Scavenging Ooze?
I'm just thinking about the card drawing opportunities in the deck.
Also also, for what its worth, I'm firmly in the pro-Bloodbraid Elf camp.
I put the Trinisphere in the sideboard. There are enough decks that don’t care about it to run it in the main. Running Trinisphere against the decks that will almost always give you a win (ie burn, infect, and storm) it might be ok to leave the 1 copy of BBE in with the potential to cascade into it.
So here is the situation you are looking at. The 2 cards you are looking to replace provide different things than what you are replacing them with.
For instance Jadelight Ranger vs Courser, Courser has 4 toughness so that is already better than Jadelight because Courser can’t simply be bolted. Bolt is going to be ran even more so now because of BBE. Also the incidental life gain is the bane of burn after you have gained 2 life you have caused the burn player to play yet another spell to close out the game and they won’t waste a Skullcrack to prevent it (I know this for certain as I am a red mage at heart and is the other deck I play for modern). So even though they are kinda similar I would give the nod to Courser
For your comparison between Brachwalker and Scooze, these are 2 completely different cards. Scooze is graveyard hate and also incidental life gain. Scooze can often get very big if gone unchecked. The thing we need to keep in mind is Snapcaster is going to be everywhere until Jace hype slows down, not to mention the uptick going to be seen in Goyf and KCommand because of BBE so having graveyard hate is going to be key. I think Relic or Grafdigger’s Cage is where you want to be though as they are not as easy to remove. Scooze can help supplement that plan though.
Jadelight is more of a replacement for Tireless Tracker. You trade late-game blowout potential and long term card draw for immediate filtering for a Cascade trigger and bigger creature up-front.
My concern with this build is that Kolaghan's Command is going to be everywhere once Jace and BBE are legal and artifacts are going to be dying like crazy.
Also, what do you all think the goal of this deck is? To me, this is a mix of mid-range ramp beatdown with prison where the disruption isn't removal or hand destruction but a specific mana denial plan. As a result, dropping to 1 Chandra and no Stormbreath or Titan feels like we are hurting our game plan.
Course could be worse than Kitchen Finks.
4 Arbor Elf
2 Birds of Paradise
4 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Courser of Kruphix
3 Tireless Tracker
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Inferno Titan
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Land(21)
8 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Kessig Wolf Run
3 Stomping Ground
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Molten Rain
4 Stone Rain
Enchantment(8)
4 Blood Moon
4 Utopia Sprawl
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I love stormbreath and it may be a mistake to not include him in the main but lower curve should assure we are never waiting for that one more land off the top or having two uncastable threats in our opener.
Thank you for spelling that out, more or less my thoughts as well. I think the process now is test, test, test.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I'd still leave 1-2 in the main as a curve topper. Cascading into ramp is inevitable, and he makes a bad situation slightly less bad.
Ponza (R/G): Bloodbraid Elf / Goblin Dark Dwellers
Maindeck (60)
4 Arbor Elf
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Courser of Kruphix
4 Tireless Tracker
4 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
2 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Molten Rain
4 Stone Rain
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Blood Moon
9 Forest
1 Mountain
3 Stomping Ground
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
Sideboard (15)
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Roast
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Beast Within
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
3 Trinisphere
Shared via TopDecked MTG https://www.topdecked.me/decks/e63594cf-d8b8-480f-9903-5ac1ca61f49f
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
I've been playing pretty much the same MTGO league list posted by WOTC aside from a couple changes. I like Kitchen Finks in the sideboard and Tireless Tracker in the main. I think Courser might be a good pick here, too. Going to try that iteration. I need some BR Hollow One hate, so I think I need to add Relic of Progenitus and Obstinate Baloth.
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
3 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Thragtusk
2 Birds of Paradise
4 Arbor Elf
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Tireless Tracker
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
3 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
4 Stone Rain
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Windswept Heath
3 Stomping Ground
1 Kessig Wolf Run
9 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Anger of the Gods
1 Choke
2 Pithing Needle
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Trinisphere
3 Kitchen Finks
GWUBAtraxa and Her Superfriends
WUB Oloro, the Life Drain Train
URG Animar, Soul of Elements
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
BWTeysa Karlov, Scion of Orzhov
R Purphoros, Goblins of Pain ($100 Budget Challenge)
U Talrand, Fun Police (Needs updating)
GWUBAtraxa and Her Superfriends
WUB Oloro, the Life Drain Train
URG Animar, Soul of Elements
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
BWTeysa Karlov, Scion of Orzhov
R Purphoros, Goblins of Pain ($100 Budget Challenge)
U Talrand, Fun Police (Needs updating)