It's all about your turn 2 play. Hands that can go to 3 mana on turn 2 AND have moon, stone rain, or tracker are generally keepable game 1 with no info.
It's risky with just 2 lands and a bird or elf since they are creatures and die easily. (Compared to 2 lands and a utopia sprawl.) but it's still alright.
You just sort of have to practice a bunch and feel out your meta. Sometimes you'll want to keep the slow hand because it's a guaranteed moon turn 3 (which many decks can't win against), but usually you really want it turn 2.
Ok, that's a good explanation. I'll remember that.
Oh, and one last question. Trinisphere seems to be a decent card for this deck. I plan to get two for sideboard... seems good against Storm and Burn. Any people here who used this card. What are your experiences with it?
Ok, that's a good explanation. I'll remember that.
Oh, and one last question. Trinisphere seems to be a decent card for this deck. I plan to get two for sideboard... seems good against Storm and Burn. Any people here who used this card. What are your experiences with it?
I main deck 2 and have an additional one in the board. It is good in a lot of matchups, completely worth mainboard consideration. Fun things I have done...
- Gobbled up Rift Bolts/Search for Tomorrow - remember, an opponent must pay 3 instead of ANY alternative cost.
- Keep Burn on one spell a turn. Ours are much more impactful.
- Had Storm scoop on turn 2.
- Locked multiple players out of the game with a few LD spells and a Trinisphere. 2 lands means nothing is getting cast.
Ok, that's a good explanation. I'll remember that.
Oh, and one last question. Trinisphere seems to be a decent card for this deck. I plan to get two for sideboard... seems good against Storm and Burn. Any people here who used this card. What are your experiences with it?
I main deck 2 and have an additional one in the board. It is good in a lot of matchups, completely worth mainboard consideration. Fun things I have done...
- Gobbled up Rift Bolts/Search for Tomorrow - remember, an opponent must pay 3 instead of ANY alternative cost.
- Keep Burn on one spell a turn. Ours are much more impactful.
- Had Storm scoop on turn 2.
- Locked multiple players out of the game with a few LD spells and a Trinisphere. 2 lands means nothing is getting cast.
Ok, you convinced me. Added 2 Trinisphere to my SCG cart.
Sorry for the double post. Posting the deck, so that I could link it to my sig.
The main and the sideboard are sort of geared towards my meta where there are plenty of Storm, Affinity, Burn, Elves, and sometimes the odd Bogle deck shows up. Will be doing some practice playtests once the cards arrive on the mail... to see what works and what does not work. And lastly, the 2 Harmonize are there as placeholders until I get some extra cash to buy two Chandra, Torch of Defiance.
If you happen to have a copy of Garruk, Primal Hunter laying around, I'd swap that in for the Harmonizes. Even something cheap like Shapers'Sanctuary would suffice; I've never played with Harmonize, but it just looks like it'd throw off the tempo and waste you a turn.
This may now be considered heresy to the Ponza world but the more I play the deck the more I am finding myself slightly underwhelmed by Thragtusk. I started running two, then that went down to one, and now I am wondering about putting him in my side. It just feels like I would rather see any other threat in my deck. My tests concluded that Pia and Kiran Nalaar were a wasted spot entirely and I keep seeing people running multiple copies in their lists, also. Anyone feeling the same on am I just odd?
You get 3 bodies, 2 of them fly, you can sac artifacts for damage as a mana sink or to control the board and mess with combat maths, and make tracker bigger. You can also block a deaths shadow 3 times.
This may now be considered heresy to the Ponza world but the more I play the deck the more I am finding myself slightly underwhelmed by Thragtusk. I started running two, then that went down to one, and now I am wondering about putting him in my side. It just feels like I would rather see any other threat in my deck. My tests concluded that Pia and Kiran Nalaar were a wasted spot entirely and I keep seeing people running multiple copies in their lists, also. Anyone feeling the same on am I just odd?
At first glance, I also feel that Pia and Kiran are weak. But of course, can't argue with results.. people seem to be doing great with them. Anyway, I don't even have the cards on hand yet... still in the mail.. will comment again on Pia and Kiran once I've tested the cards.
I've been kicking around a build of Eldritch Ponza that maindecks a couple of white sources for Restoration Angel and Kiki-Jiki. Having searched the forum, it doesn't look like this is an entirely new idea, but I wonder if you guys might tell me what I could be doing better?
In the sideboard, perhaps the new Carnage Tyrant is better than Gaea's Revenge? Tyrant cost one less mana, has trample, also does not die to Gurmag Angler and 5/6 tarmogoyfs.
You get 3 bodies, 2 of them fly, you can sac artifacts for damage as a mana sink or to control the board and mess with combat maths, and make tracker bigger. You can also block a deaths shadow 3 times.
It is a decent card but it isn’t that great. Sure you get 4 power spread across 3 bodies, but beings that it will probably be your first threat it dies to most removal ran in the format which mean you paid 4 mana for 2 1/1 flyers with no chance to get in the extra damage because you tapped out. If the stance is you play it later so you have open mana to activate it the for 7 mana we have much better options which costs less.
You get 3 bodies, 2 of them fly, you can sac artifacts for damage as a mana sink or to control the board and mess with combat maths, and make tracker bigger. You can also block a deaths shadow 3 times.
It is a decent card but it isn’t that great. Sure you get 4 power spread across 3 bodies, but beings that it will probably be your first threat it dies to most removal ran in the format which mean you paid 4 mana for 2 1/1 flyers with no chance to get in the extra damage because you tapped out. If the stance is you play it later so you have open mana to activate it the for 7 mana we have much better options which costs less.
The scope is the format. The goal is utility.
Yes, if your opponent kills it with a removal spell you 'only' have 2 thopters. That is 2 more thopters than a Baloth will leave you.
It's a skill intensive card with huge utility, hence why the grinders and pros are using it and the 2-2 at fnm guys are still tring to windmill slam wurmcoils and thragtusks, trying to win with a single god tier threat, hoping to chug through.
Play whatever 4 drops you want, but I highly recomend people who haven't tried it give it a go.
You get 3 bodies, 2 of them fly, you can sac artifacts for damage as a mana sink or to control the board and mess with combat maths, and make tracker bigger. You can also block a deaths shadow 3 times.
It is a decent card but it isn’t that great. Sure you get 4 power spread across 3 bodies, but beings that it will probably be your first threat it dies to most removal ran in the format which mean you paid 4 mana for 2 1/1 flyers with no chance to get in the extra damage because you tapped out. If the stance is you play it later so you have open mana to activate it the for 7 mana we have much better options which costs less.
The scope is the format. The goal is utility.
Yes, if your opponent kills it with a removal spell you 'only' have 2 thopters. That is 2 more thopters than a Baloth will leave you.
It's a skill intensive card with huge utility, hence why the grinders and pros are using it and the 2-2 at fnm guys are still tring to windmill slam wurmcoils and thragtusks, trying to win with a single god tier threat, hoping to chug through.
Play whatever 4 drops you want, but I highly recomend people who haven't tried it give it a go.
I'm a fan of P&K too, but I don't see what's accomplished by squashing discussion of the card with the reasoning essentially being "because everything else is just filthy-casual FNM trash" when recent tournament results suggest otherwise.
I'm a fan of P&K too, but I don't see what's accomplished by squashing discussion of the card with the reasoning essentially being "because everything else is just filthy-casual FNM trash" when recent tournament results suggest otherwise.
Indeed. Little bit of an own-goal there, Moonbreaker. Though I am pleased the card is working for you.
I quite like that first list you posted there, Joban. It is very heavy on the land destruction theme which really is what this deck should be about! I've not really used Crumble to Dust much. Are people getting good results with it? Main or side?
@ anosmianacrimony - I'm liking your idea! Using Eldritch Evolution to get rid of a BoP and grab a Magus of the Moon sounds like it has potential. Against red, I see that you can also grab Kitchen Finks My only worry is that your deck loses focus, or becomes susceptible to your own Blood Moons. Let us know how it tests!
I didn’t say it was a bad card. I said it was decent and I am glad it is working for you. What we have to do unfortunately is look at the most common removal in the format and see how well it does given the format we are in currently. So Path, Bolt, and Push are cards we need to see how well X card is going to be especially since it being in a 3 to 4 drop spot means it will be our first threat and will presumably eat one of said removal.
With this understanding we can look at the 3 most played 4 drop creatures for Ponza which are Baloth, P&K, and Huntmaster:
All die to Path and Push.
Baloth is the only one out of the 3 that survives Bolt and gains 4 life upon entry so it is a great option if you are in a burn heavy meta or heavy discard meta because a free 4/4 that gains you 4 life is literally an insane rate.
P&K leaves behind 2 1/1 flyers. So in theory you paid 4 mana for 2 1/1 flyers but that isn’t a great rate. Moonbreaker you also mention it being really strong in the GDS matchup but if we add a card that is commonly played in it (k command) then they get even more value out of it and now you are left with just 1 1/1 flyer.
Huntmaster gains 2 and leaves behind a 2/2 which isn’t necessarily a great rate either, but the extra 2 life can be relevant. It basically removes the life lost from playing a Stomping Ground. This minor life gain helps in 2 matchups specifically which are burn (means they need an additional burn spell to close out the game) and valakut (being at 20 or above is key here for when they go off if you don’t have Blood Moon already in play).
Now let’s assume that either P&K or Huntmaster stay alive and we start a trip towards magical Christmas land... Huntmaster wins in this category as well as gaining more life and doing damage while making even more tokens outshines P&K.
In summary our 4 drop slot is not super great outside of Chandra, but in an open meta, which modern is by far the most open meta out of the constructed formats, then Huntmaster might be the best option we have as a creature in this slot.
You get 3 bodies, 2 of them fly, you can sac artifacts for damage as a mana sink or to control the board and mess with combat maths, and make tracker bigger. You can also block a deaths shadow 3 times.
It is a decent card but it isn’t that great. Sure you get 4 power spread across 3 bodies, but beings that it will probably be your first threat it dies to most removal ran in the format which mean you paid 4 mana for 2 1/1 flyers with no chance to get in the extra damage because you tapped out. If the stance is you play it later so you have open mana to activate it the for 7 mana we have much better options which costs less.
The scope is the format. The goal is utility.
Yes, if your opponent kills it with a removal spell you 'only' have 2 thopters. That is 2 more thopters than a Baloth will leave you.
It's a skill intensive card with huge utility, hence why the grinders and pros are using it and the 2-2 at fnm guys are still tring to windmill slam wurmcoils and thragtusks, trying to win with a single god tier threat, hoping to chug through.
Play whatever 4 drops you want, but I highly recomend people who haven't tried it give it a go.
I'm a fan of P&K too, but I don't see what's accomplished by squashing discussion of the card with the reasoning essentially being "because everything else is just filthy-casual FNM trash" when recent tournament results suggest otherwise.
None of those are impressive results. Anyone can top 8 a ppt8 on their given day with their given deck, the classic is for people who scrubbed out of the open and that guy who made the invitational has to put up a result to impress.
Chandra is a house. If she resolves. There is a lot of stubby D going around at the moment, so I don't play any more than 2. And in magical christmas land where out creatures don't die, Tireless Tracker is our best creature by far, far outshining Pia or Baloth, and probably edging huntmaster
There was no debate about Chandra or Tracker. The debate is over the 4 drop slot regarding creatures which I explained out pretty thoroughly I believe as to why P&K is not as strong as Huntmaster if you walk into a blind meta.
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It's risky with just 2 lands and a bird or elf since they are creatures and die easily. (Compared to 2 lands and a utopia sprawl.) but it's still alright.
You just sort of have to practice a bunch and feel out your meta. Sometimes you'll want to keep the slow hand because it's a guaranteed moon turn 3 (which many decks can't win against), but usually you really want it turn 2.
Oh, and one last question. Trinisphere seems to be a decent card for this deck. I plan to get two for sideboard... seems good against Storm and Burn. Any people here who used this card. What are your experiences with it?
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
I main deck 2 and have an additional one in the board. It is good in a lot of matchups, completely worth mainboard consideration. Fun things I have done...
- Gobbled up Rift Bolts/Search for Tomorrow - remember, an opponent must pay 3 instead of ANY alternative cost.
- Keep Burn on one spell a turn. Ours are much more impactful.
- Had Storm scoop on turn 2.
- Locked multiple players out of the game with a few LD spells and a Trinisphere. 2 lands means nothing is getting cast.
RBGLiving EndRBG
EDH
UFblthpU
BRXantchaRB
BGVarolzGB
URWZedruuWRU
Link: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/modern-regional-ptq-2017-11-19
Winner: Dredge
Runner-up: Dredge
Top8:
Dredge: 2
RG Ponza: 1
Burn: 1
Affinity: 1
B/W Eldrazi & Taxes: 1
Infect: 1
Bogles: 1
Top32:
5c Humans: 5
Dredge: 3
Burn: 3
Grixis Shadow: 3
Affinity: 2
B/W Eldrazi and Taxes: 2
Abzan Devoted Company: 2
Jeskai Queller: 2
RG Ponza: 1
Infect: 1
Bogles: 1
UR Kiki Exarch: 1
Lantern Prison: 1
UR Through The Breach: 2
Jund DS: 1
RUGB(4c-No White) Delver: 1
BG Tron: 1
BWR Midrange: 1
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Ok, you convinced me. Added 2 Trinisphere to my SCG cart.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
The main and the sideboard are sort of geared towards my meta where there are plenty of Storm, Affinity, Burn, Elves, and sometimes the odd Bogle deck shows up. Will be doing some practice playtests once the cards arrive on the mail... to see what works and what does not work. And lastly, the 2 Harmonize are there as placeholders until I get some extra cash to buy two Chandra, Torch of Defiance.
1 Mountain
3 Stomping Ground
10 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
Creatures
4 Arbor Elf
1 Birds of Paradise
3 Tireless Tracker
1 Ember Swallower
2 Thragtusk
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
2 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Inferno Titan
1 Grim Lavamancer
3 Spitebellows
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Beast Within
4 Stone Rain
3 Blood Moon
1 Trinisphere
4 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
1 Primal Command
2 Destructive Revelry
1 Fracturing Gust
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Witchbane Orb
2 Chameleon Colossus
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Scavenging Ooze
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Anyway, if testings go well.. I could give more funds to the deck and get the Chandra by Jan or Feb.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
You get 3 bodies, 2 of them fly, you can sac artifacts for damage as a mana sink or to control the board and mess with combat maths, and make tracker bigger. You can also block a deaths shadow 3 times.
At first glance, I also feel that Pia and Kiran are weak. But of course, can't argue with results.. people seem to be doing great with them. Anyway, I don't even have the cards on hand yet... still in the mail.. will comment again on Pia and Kiran once I've tested the cards.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
In the sideboard, perhaps the new Carnage Tyrant is better than Gaea's Revenge? Tyrant cost one less mana, has trample, also does not die to Gurmag Angler and 5/6 tarmogoyfs.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
It is a decent card but it isn’t that great. Sure you get 4 power spread across 3 bodies, but beings that it will probably be your first threat it dies to most removal ran in the format which mean you paid 4 mana for 2 1/1 flyers with no chance to get in the extra damage because you tapped out. If the stance is you play it later so you have open mana to activate it the for 7 mana we have much better options which costs less.
The scope is the format. The goal is utility.
Yes, if your opponent kills it with a removal spell you 'only' have 2 thopters. That is 2 more thopters than a Baloth will leave you.
It's a skill intensive card with huge utility, hence why the grinders and pros are using it and the 2-2 at fnm guys are still tring to windmill slam wurmcoils and thragtusks, trying to win with a single god tier threat, hoping to chug through.
Play whatever 4 drops you want, but I highly recomend people who haven't tried it give it a go.
Somebody should tell that to this scrub who took 1st at a PPTQ, this goofball, or this chump who top 8'd SCG Regionals in Philly....
I'm a fan of P&K too, but I don't see what's accomplished by squashing discussion of the card with the reasoning essentially being "because everything else is just filthy-casual FNM trash" when recent tournament results suggest otherwise.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Indeed. Little bit of an own-goal there, Moonbreaker. Though I am pleased the card is working for you.
I quite like that first list you posted there, Joban. It is very heavy on the land destruction theme which really is what this deck should be about! I've not really used Crumble to Dust much. Are people getting good results with it? Main or side?
With this understanding we can look at the 3 most played 4 drop creatures for Ponza which are Baloth, P&K, and Huntmaster:
All die to Path and Push.
Baloth is the only one out of the 3 that survives Bolt and gains 4 life upon entry so it is a great option if you are in a burn heavy meta or heavy discard meta because a free 4/4 that gains you 4 life is literally an insane rate.
P&K leaves behind 2 1/1 flyers. So in theory you paid 4 mana for 2 1/1 flyers but that isn’t a great rate. Moonbreaker you also mention it being really strong in the GDS matchup but if we add a card that is commonly played in it (k command) then they get even more value out of it and now you are left with just 1 1/1 flyer.
Huntmaster gains 2 and leaves behind a 2/2 which isn’t necessarily a great rate either, but the extra 2 life can be relevant. It basically removes the life lost from playing a Stomping Ground. This minor life gain helps in 2 matchups specifically which are burn (means they need an additional burn spell to close out the game) and valakut (being at 20 or above is key here for when they go off if you don’t have Blood Moon already in play).
Now let’s assume that either P&K or Huntmaster stay alive and we start a trip towards magical Christmas land... Huntmaster wins in this category as well as gaining more life and doing damage while making even more tokens outshines P&K.
In summary our 4 drop slot is not super great outside of Chandra, but in an open meta, which modern is by far the most open meta out of the constructed formats, then Huntmaster might be the best option we have as a creature in this slot.
None of those are impressive results. Anyone can top 8 a ppt8 on their given day with their given deck, the classic is for people who scrubbed out of the open and that guy who made the invitational has to put up a result to impress.
Chandra is a house. If she resolves. There is a lot of stubby D going around at the moment, so I don't play any more than 2. And in magical christmas land where out creatures don't die, Tireless Tracker is our best creature by far, far outshining Pia or Baloth, and probably edging huntmaster
There was no debate about Chandra or Tracker. The debate is over the 4 drop slot regarding creatures which I explained out pretty thoroughly I believe as to why P&K is not as strong as Huntmaster if you walk into a blind meta.