Acid moss is great, but hands where you can cast turn 2 acid moss are incredibly rare and it can't be hit by GDDs. Also because this deck tops out at 5 mana (or 7 for activated abilities) the extra ramp/filtering is less important.
The 3 coursers are SO good in the main. They give you game against Burn and zoo decks, but are also far from dead in fair matchups and control matchups, gaining life, providing card advantage/filtering, and they make Chandra SO good by letting you know exactly what you're exiling (or not). They are easy to side out without undermining the deck as well.
Beast within is a very powerful card. It is a clean answer to basically everything. It's the only card in the deck that can 1 for 1 a big deaths shadow, but can also be a bad stone rain when it needs to, or even turn an unwanted forest I control into a beater. I couldn't imagine dropping them personally. They just have so much utility.
To be honest the deck at the moment feels perfect down to the last card. The sideboard has been wonderful as well, but Thrun is a new addition. If I had to change ANYTHING about the deck I might swap a feed the clan out for another Scooze.
I am 9 and 2 in competitive matches. My losses were 2-0 to Elves, as couldn't find a bonefire or bolt game 1, mulled to 5 looking for them or anger in game 2 and still never found one! And a 2-1 loss to mono white hatebears. He arbitered me with double ghost quarter on the play game 1, I crushed game 2 and I lost game 3 to a heinous misplay, where I beast withined 2 of my lands for a clock (he was on 10 I had 7 mana available) and his 2 cards in hand were Dusk/Dawn(a SB card I had yet to see in the match that I wasn't prepared for) and arbiter, with a ghost quarter on board, and he ripped another one off the top. My pigs died then my 5 remaining lands became 3. It was my first time playing against bears with any deck and I would never make that mistake again!!!
She is excellent against jund. Her wolf tokens protect your better creatures from edicts, and their 2 of maelstrom pulse is their only clean answer. Making her an instant 2 for 1 at the very very least. But generally she just takes over the game with bolts and providing your fatties haste, and making them huge.
She also provides a way to win without combat. She can deal 9 damage to face with lightning bolts and her emblem is match ending. I crushed a lantern deck in the final to 4-0 my lgs modern night the other day, using her ultimate as my way to win through double ensnaring bridge. Which is the reason I stuck her in the deck in the first place. And no one in the world playing modern is going to cast pithing needle naming Arlinn Kord!!!
Otherwise she is generally excellent anywhere planeswalkers are good anyway. Against any fair deck, control deck or deck where you want the fastest clock possible (think ad naus)
I considered a 3rd chandra at first, but figured she provided nothing different, and if my opponent needles naming chandra or casts nevermore ect the 3rd copy is just as usless as the first two. I considered Garruk, primal hunter and Nissa, vital force, but wanted to start with Arlinn because in my experience with her in standard she always over performed and impressed me with her versatility. So far she has only impressed, and I have not lost a game in which I have cast her.
Had a poor turnout last night. Only 8 people pitched. I won 3-0, played against Grishoalbrand, GW Dubious Challenge, and Jund.
Grishoalbrand:
2-1 win, though this was the pilot's first time playing the deck.
Game 1 I destroyed his only basic Swamp on turn 2, Moon on turn 3, destroyed his only basic island on turn 4, he misused his only Manamorphose to return the Borborygmos Enraged he'd looted earlier. I proceeded to win on 2 life by swinging with my beat sticks and keeping his land count low to reduce the chances of him playing Through the Breach.
Game 3 I hit all the necessary cards on curve to get an easy win.
Jund:
2-0 Win. The guy was trying out Grim Flayer in his list, but claims he didn't like it because each time he got the damage trigger, he wanted to keep each card it revealed.
Game 1 I hit a turn two Moon and after destroying his green and black basics, I proceeded to win with two Goblin Dark-Dwellers.
Game 2 I didn't see a Moon, but had enough land destruction to deny him access to one colour. Won via superior beat sticks.
Dubious Challenge
2-1 win. This was actually an interesting matchup as the deck was based heavily on a design I did that has the potential for a turn two Emrakul, the Aeons Torn Thanks to a similar mana dorks set to us. After showing it to my friend, he ordered the cards. So I kind of knew what to expect.
Game 2 he managed to get an Emrakul off See the Unwritten, which is a backup Challenge.
Game 3 was close. I missed a few early land drops, he used Flickerwisp on my Sprawled land, I destroyed his Sprawled land, etc. I managed to stablise before he could Challenge me and managed to win with a Titan, a Dragon and a Goblin despite him hard casting Wurmcoil Engine.
That jund player needs his head checked. There are certainly better cards than Flayer, but perfect topdecks and stacking cards for bob is not something to complain about!
The dubious challenge deck looks spicy!
No PPTQ for me today, couldn't arrange to get there in time. Will have to wait for next week.
Went 1 win 3 losses and dropped at todays PPTQ. Running Adam Black's (Mostly standard 4 moon 4 stone rain 4 acid moss 4 inferno titan) list.
Game 1 kept a probably not great hand of 4 lands, utopia sprawl, stone rain, and thragtusk. Opponent was on r/w burn/aggro and went guide, swift spear, swift spear, and I drew lands of guide as well as topdecked lands a fair bit (including my one off kessig wolf run). He got me to 2 life but I kept drawing lands and land destruction (3 stone rain) and played thrag to go to 7 and then another to pretty much seal the game with thrag trampling in.
Game 2 actually sided out moons and some land destruction for actual side cards against burn. Didn't matter. Opponent kept a 1 land hand against a land destruction deck, and I ripped one of the couple stone rains I left in post board and took his land. Followed it up with Obstinate Baloth and he scooped. (Actually played around him bolting arbor elf by playing utopia sprawl first to guarantee turn 2 stone rain.)
Round 2 was against kiki combo. Game one or two I got storm breath and monstrous with kessig out and trampled through for lethal (he actually tried to path the stormbreath hoping I "forgot" it had pro white...) Other games could not get enough land to cast titan/anything.
Round 3 was against my friend on bant spirits. Ended up game one having the choice between primal command and thrag tusk. Was one short off casting titan at the time. Went with command putting a land on top (he was tapped out and one card in hand) and tutored stormbreath. This was a mistake.
His one card was collected company and he tapped down my dragon with the spirit that etb taps a creature and swung for lethal. (I should have gained 7 and tutored another thrag or something.) Game 2 could not get off 3 land.
Round 4 was against fish. Was able to win game 1 by keeping him off lands which was a surprise. Game 2 and 3 he was able to keep me off sprawl and my arbor elf tapped while I couldn't do much.
Deck list was pretty good despite results. I was told that one of the best cards to help the deck overall is Chalice of the Void. Might give those a spin next time.
Game 2 actually sided out moons and some land destruction for actual side cards against burn.
I personally think that is incorrect against burn. I played burn exclusively for over a year. Taking out acid moss and stone rain is fine, burn can obviously operate well with limited lands. But they struggle to remove a moon, and they play no non mountain basics in 99% of lists. Once you moon them they can never remove it or cast a green/white/black spell for the rest of the game. I have won many a game against burn because they died with 2 or 3 R/W R/G burn spells in hand that were useless.
If a blood moon blanks 2 burn spells that's 6 life gained.
Game 2 actually sided out moons and some land destruction for actual side cards against burn.
I personally think that is incorrect against burn. I played burn exclusively for over a year. Taking out acid moss and stone rain is fine, burn can obviously operate well with limited lands. But they struggle to remove a moon, and they play no non mountain basics in 99% of lists. Once you moon them they can never remove it or cast a green/white/black spell for the rest of the game. I have won many a game against burn because they died with 2 or 3 R/W R/G burn spells in hand that were useless.
If a blood moon blanks 2 burn spells that's 6 life gained.
Agreed. I often get asked why I leave Moon in against RDW, and my answer is that keeping him off his splash colours shuts off +-8 cards, depending on the build.
I'm coming to report on my PPTQ today. One where I ended up winning it
I know we've been talking back and forth about what the ideal package is and a page or two back I highlighted what I believed was the correct core of the deck. I'm here to report on my result and share my deck list with all of you. Maybe throw in my thought process.
Round 1 vs Esper Control
Game 1: T2 Blood moon locked him out of the game.
Game 2: T3 Choke locked him out of the game.
I added choke to my sideboard because of the fish match-up. I found this one to be incredibly difficult and moon does nothing here. Replacing some with Choke WILL give you free wins. More on choke later...
1-0
Round 2 vs Fish
Game 1: I'm on the draw here and manage to win this match off lucky Bonfire.
Game 2: He overruns me before I can really do anything (although top decking a Bonfire would have won me the game).
Game 3: He kept a one land hand (cavern of souls), I land choke T2 and lock him out of the game.
2-0
Round 3 vs Fish (yes, only 2 players and I played against both)
Game 1: I keep him off his lords with Chandra and bonfires.
Game 2: He kept a one-lander with vial, but I pop it with Abrade and follow up with Choke and he concedes.
3-0
Round 4 vs Jeskai Tempo
Game 1: I T2 blood moon and he basically doesn't do anything for the match.
Game 2: He counters a couple things, but eventually burns me out.
Game 3: Moon and choke hold him off available mana, I'm at 5 and he aims to burn me out, but a timely Thragtusk puts the game out of reach.
4-0
Round 5 & 6 I draw. 4-0-2.
Top 8 (finished 3rd overall)
Quarter finals vs GB Tron
This is a matchup that turned out to be more difficult than I expected. Mostly because of the damn artifacts that can be converted for cards and mana.
Game 1: Blood moon T2, keep him off his lands to eventually finish him off with a Stormbreath.
Game 2: I T2 Blood moon but he's ready for it with Nature's claim. I'm able to keep him off Tron but not off drawing lands naturally. I get him down to 5 but he lands a wurmcoil. I had my own, we trade (i have an abrade in hand) but I never draw another threat that matter. He lands Karn followed by another wurm coil where my only out is Bonfire. I draw, it's not bonfire. Off to Game 3.
Game 3: I land a T3 Chandra and my gameplan is just to get to the emblem. I keep him off Tron with a moon and some land D, get to the emblem, GG.
5-0-2
Semi finals vs: Grixis Death Shadow
This is the match up where going first is the most important thing. Sadly, my opponent finished in 2nd and gets to choose.
Game 1: He rapes my hand and I die to an angler (i had acceleration, moon, land d).
Game 2: T1 Utopia Sprawl. My hand is: Land, Choke, Stone Rain, Blood Moon. He fetches for a U/B land, thought seizes me, sees my hand, let's out a sigh, takes the moon. I play the choke and pass turn. He draws, concedes.
Game 3: He plays a fetch but pass. He start with Utopia Sprawl hoping he counters it. He does. I proceed to play an elf, which he never kills. He draws some cards, inquisitions me but has no pressure. I rip off the top a Chameleon colossus. Opponent has the "holy ***** i'm dead" face. I put him from 11 to 3 and pass. He draws, and concedes. His hand: 2 Terminate.
6-0-2
Finals vs Jeskai Tempo
Game 1: I get to start, it matters. T1 Elf (he plays colonade), T2 moon. GG.
Game 2: We go back and forth until we hit top deck mode. He snaps a negate on my acid moss, enchants a steel of the god head on it and starts pressuring me. I draw 5 straight lands and die.
Game 3: T2 Choke. Land D. Primal command his tapped colonnade and fetch Stormbreath. GG.
Cinder Glade: Should be a Sheltered Thicket but I forgot to make the switch.
I didn't end up playing against Affinity this time, but both it and Fish are our toughest matchup. Which is why I dedicate the most sideboard cards to them. Abrade has the benefit of being useful in pretty much any matchup. Going to the face is not really important with the "burn spell" since your threats are all hay makers anyways.
Relic is not super useful but does have its uses. It's decent against DS so you always want to bring it. But you don't *need* it. If they inquisition you, they have to take it or their game plan is going to suck. Which leaves room to do other things.
Tireless Tracker is the only card I'm so-so on. It can be great, but it's only really useful against the control match ups because you want to bring in more threats anyways since they are bringing in a bunch of negates. Nothing like having them sitting there with negates and you landing a Tracker. But I can see it being switched to something that's more useful. One thing I will note though, if you switch the card with something else, make sure it's either a threat or something that will lock out the opponent. Modern is all about not letting your opponents play magic. Always remember that and you'll do fine.
A lot of you guys keep the birds in your main and I am convinced that's wrong. The card can't attack, is a horrible top deck and you really don't need it. Cut it. You'll thank me later.
The only game I wish I had a KWR was vs GB Tron Game 2. But other than that, not once did I feel like I needed that card. Cut it.
2. I hate thragtusk, and find practically anything is better in that slot. I hate it against burn as well, which is a matchup some people are convinced it's good in. What matchups does it impress you in?
4. On a scale of '1' to 'I'm so F***ing dead' how bad are dredge, hollowvine and living end matchups for you with only 2 relics for graveyard hate?
5. You mentioned wolf run was a card you don't like. I agree. However, you were playing a Cinder glade (which you mentioned should be a thicket) but eiher way, I dislike it for the same reason I don't like wolf run. If your hand is forest, cinderglade, elf, sprawl, moon, and any 2 other non land cards I feel like you've shot yourself in the foot for no reason, and that every land should be able to enter untapped in our deck. Your thoughts on this?
I love the inclusion of Chameleon colossus and choke by the way. Thanks again for the report!
2. I hate thragtusk, and find practically anything is better in that slot. I hate it against burn as well, which is a matchup some people are convinced it's good in. What matchups does it impress you in?
4. On a scale of '1' to 'I'm so F***ing dead' how bad are dredge, hollowvine and living end matchups for you with only 2 relics for graveyard hate?
5. You mentioned wolf run was a card you don't like. I agree. However, you were playing a Cinder glade (which you mentioned should be a thicket) but eiher way, I dislike it for the same reason I don't like wolf run. If your hand is forest, cinderglade, elf, sprawl, moon, and any 2 other non land cards I feel like you've shot yourself in the foot for no reason, and that every land should be able to enter untapped in our deck. Your thoughts on this?
I love the inclusion of Chameleon colossus and choke by the way. Thanks again for the report!
1: Trinisphere locks out burn. It's your single best card against them. I played it main because my meta tends to have a lot of zoo/burn. However, going forward, it can definitely be pushed back to the sideboard. It's much better on the play than the draw.
2: Thragtusk has it's uses. It's particularly good against anything that runs path. But making the shift to Baloth might end up being better since it costs one less and does have some applications against GDS/Jund. It's not a hay maker.
3: I wanted to play Abrade specifically because of affinity and fish. Being able to shoot a land/lord/artifact is a slight edge over all 3 of those cards. Shattering spree is a sorcery. I may as well run by force which is unaffected by a chalice at 1. If you don't expect any Fish in your meta, then grudge is marginally better, I think.
4: Living is a better match up than the other 2. Mainly because of moon/land d. Trinisphere is great here. A must. Hollowvine is not consistent enough to really make an impact. It's a "win on t2 or do nothing" kind of deck. Dregde is not very popular here but moon/land d and angers should be good here. With that said, every deck has unbeatable hands (see my game vs GDS).
5: The Thicket is in there for a single reason: To be cycled. It's pretty unlikely that you'll ever fetch it out, but you want to have a critical mass of lands. It serves as an insurance for the worst case scenario. I think the tiny edge gained from it being cyclable over just being another land makes a difference. There were games where I would have wanted that.
Choke could potentially be switched to Boil. Boil is better on the draw and Choke on the play. But I really like Choke in the current meta.
Shattering spree is also unaffected by a chalice at 1. You just replicate it. The original copy will be countered but the replicate copy will kill the chalice. Also chalice on 1 does nothing spectacular against our deck. Once you have cast your 1st accelerator to cast 3 spell on turn 2 the rest are sort of redundant, unless you have the 4 drop, 2 land, elf sprawl god hand!!!
Shattering spree is also unaffected by a chalice at 1. You just replicate it. The original copy will be countered but the replicate copy will kill the chalice. Also chalice on 1 does nothing spectacular against our deck. Once you have cast your 1st accelerator to cast 3 spell on turn 2 the rest are sort of redundant, unless you have the 4 drop, 2 land, elf sprawl god hand!!!
That aside thanks for taking the time to answer!
Yes, I know that the chalice doesn't affect the subsequent replicates. But having to spend an extra mana just to hit the card twice can be an issue. It gets around Teeg, I guess haha. I wouldn't play either anyways as they are too narrow. I would rather play that gremlin version where you get 2/2 dudes if I were to play a card like SS.
Chalice on 1 is only really good against us if we're on the draw. Sometimes your opponents forget the trigger though...
That 4 drop land/elf/sprawl hand happened more often than you'd think to me yesterday. There's nothing more satisfying than to untap with 6 mana available to your opponents 1 land. Really hard to lose from that spot. And it's turns like that that make this deck so good.
Shattering spree can be replicated off a dark dwellers because additional costs are awesome:jam: But I play ancient grudge and revelry over spree anyway.
I agree with the last statement fully. When looking at a modern deck I have several criteria that need to be addressed
1. Does the deck have unbeatable starts/hands?
2. Does the deck lose to a single hate card, or get rekt by specific popular sideboard tech?
3. Does the deck have good/decent matchups against the relevant popular decks of the format?
4. Can the deck beat a turn 1 goblin guide?
Ponza is the real deal at the moment. I am so happy it's going under the radar. I look at the 'tier 1' section of this site and laugh, all those matchups are favorable in my experience, bar burn, which is 60/40 them pre sideboard, and better by far post board, and affinity, which is also entirely beatable, though unfavorable.
Hi I'm currently a Skred Red player but over the years I've picked up the various cards to make Ponza and I was hoping for some advice as I prepare for PPTQ's.
Basically I look at Skred as a reactive deck that does well against aggro decks (other than boggles), creature decks, and control decks but struggles against combo decks (Storm, Ad Nauseam, Scapeshift, Grishoalbrand) and all Tron Variants.
This is where I may need some correction but it appears that Ponza is a far more proactive deck that isn't quite as good against the aggro decks, creature decks, but gains a lot against Combo and Tron decks (faster ramp into more land destruction/disruption). Am I roughly correct about this assessment?
I really do like playing Skred but post-board I often side in Molten Rains and feel like a poor imitation of Ponza, so I'm considering the switch to Ponza.
Here's a decklist my friend used last weekend for a PPTQ. It is unconventional and probably controversial but he almost piloted it to a Top 8 PPTQ (38 Players).
I lent him the deck to which he tweaked for his play style. His record was 3-2-1 but he could've gone 4-1-1 and possibly dominate the Top 8 and winning the tournament but due to confusion on the tournament prize structure he decided to have a concession with his last round opponent. I am part to blame as I did not brief him on the stakes and I left during round 5 as he thought after the swiss rounds that the tourney is over and the top 8 players are the winners. FYI, this is only his second Modern tournament (he rarely plays Modern as he plays Pauper) and was not familiar on how the tournament works.
We had a Draw for Round 1 as we were paired with another late competitor so I am left wondering of the possibilities had we arrived on time.
Apologies as I don't have the sideboard as he made the list on the fly. We initially talked about adding Blood Moon at the sideboard before the event but I guess he forgot and was pressured listing the deck and adjusting the sideboard.
I watched a couple of his games and I can tell that he can pilot the deck better had he had reps from it. This was the first time he used the deck by the way.
Acidic Slime - Was added because of the 2-in-1 effect without the drawback of Avalanche Riders. It was a great card against Death's Shadow due to Deathtouch.
Chandra, Pyromaster - This would have been Chandra, Torch of Defiance but due to budgetary reasons I had to settle with this.
Cinder Glade - This could've been the 4th Stompy Ground but I don't have it. I'd rather change it to a Forest as it is bad in an opening hand.
Windswept Heath - This was supposed to be 3 only and Wooded Foothills should be 4 instead.
I'm going to give this a try as we both feel the normal land destruction count on accepted Ponza lists are not enough. I'll see if I can borrow a Chandra, TOD but if not then I'll stick with the Pyromaster. The sideboard is a work in progress and there's a big chance that it will include Blood Moons.
I might go to 4 Acidic Slimes and cut the 2 Reclaiming Vines.
I like Abrade as it can hit an artifact because Affinity is slightly favored against us. If I'm able to get a set before the weekend, then the Lightning Bolts will be replaced.
Hi I'm currently a Skred Red player but over the years I've picked up the various cards to make Ponza and I was hoping for some advice as I prepare for PPTQ's.
Basically I look at Skred as a reactive deck that does well against aggro decks (other than boggles), creature decks, and control decks but struggles against combo decks (Storm, Ad Nauseam, Scapeshift, Grishoalbrand) and all Tron Variants.
This is where I may need some correction but it appears that Ponza is a far more proactive deck that isn't quite as good against the aggro decks, creature decks, but gains a lot against Combo and Tron decks (faster ramp into more land destruction/disruption). Am I roughly correct about this assessment?
I really do like playing Skred but post-board I often side in Molten Rains and feel like a poor imitation of Ponza, so I'm considering the switch to Ponza.
Hello my hateful skred homie.
Your deck... isn't a deck. Playing snow covered lands for a decent removal spell, then playing hate cards and pia & Kiran does not make a modern powerhouse. Don't get me wrong, I love Skred, and I always root for it when a pro streamer plays with or against it, as I love jank. But Ponza is the real deal. We have the focus and raw power Skred lacks to push us over the top.
The biggest 2 differences I think are that we play less bad cards, and more often have 'free wins' or unbeatable starts. Do you know who can beat turn 2 bloodmoon on the play in an unknown matchup? Mefolk, Skred and elves are capable. That's about it. Maybe a control deck player knows enough from 'forest, arbor elf, go' to play a fetchland and pass, holding up spell pierce. But we generally smash control anyways.
Skreds game plan as you know is to be an annoying d***, control the board with removal and the graveyard if need be with relic then use value threats to win the fair match once you've dragged the opponent back down to your level. Our good/decent hands either slow the opponents mana crippling them, before casting a big dumb threat that wins the game while the opponent is still trying to catch up. Or we just destroy their mana completely, even if we don't have a threat the opponent can fight back, and we have all the time in the world to find a fatty.
You are correct in that Skred has better matchups against aggro. Burn and affinity are beatable for us (especially post board) but you guys generally crush them, where as we are slight underdogs against burn, and very much underdogs against Affinity. However, much like ponza we have a sideboard full of hateful hateful cards to be a pain in the ass against any deck in the format which evens the ledger, whereas no one has anti LD tech! We are pretty good against creature decks though, as anger of the gods and bonfire of the damned are pretty good cards, and we can go bigger than most decks.
Personally I have found Ponza to be a very rewarding investment (was a long time burn player) in both fun (for me at least) and wins. I recommend you give it a go! There are multiple good builds of the deck, just find the one that suits your playstyle.
Here's a decklist my friend used last weekend for a PPTQ. It is unconventional and probably controversial but he almost piloted it to a Top 8 PPTQ (38 Players).
I lent him the deck to which he tweaked for his play style. His record was 3-2-1 but he could've gone 4-1-1 and possibly dominate the Top 8 and winning the tournament but due to confusion on the tournament prize structure he decided to have a concession with his last round opponent. I am part to blame as I did not brief him on the stakes and I left during round 5 as he thought after the swiss rounds that the tourney is over and the top 8 players are the winners. FYI, this is only his second Modern tournament (he rarely plays Modern as he plays Pauper) and was not familiar on how the tournament works.
We had a Draw for Round 1 as we were paired with another late competitor so I am left wondering of the possibilities had we arrived on time.
Apologies as I don't have the sideboard as he made the list on the fly. We initially talked about adding Blood Moon at the sideboard before the event but I guess he forgot and was pressured listing the deck and adjusting the sideboard.
I watched a couple of his games and I can tell that he can pilot the deck better had he had reps from it. This was the first time he used the deck by the way.
Acidic Slime - Was added because of the 2-in-1 effect without the drawback of Avalanche Riders. It was a great card against Death's Shadow due to Deathtouch.
Chandra, Pyromaster - This would have been Chandra, Torch of Defiance but due to budgetary reasons I had to settle with this.
Cinder Glade - This could've been the 4th Stompy Ground but I don't have it. I'd rather change it to a Forest as it is bad in an opening hand.
Windswept Heath - This was supposed to be 3 only and Wooded Foothills should be 4 instead.
I'm going to give this a try as we both feel the normal land destruction count on accepted Ponza lists are not enough. I'll see if I can borrow a Chandra, TOD but if not then I'll stick with the Pyromaster. The sideboard is a work in progress and there's a big chance that it will include Blood Moons.
I might go to 4 Acidic Slimes and cut the 2 Reclaiming Vines.
I like Abrade as it can hit an artifact because Affinity is slightly favored against us. If I'm able to get a set before the weekend, then the Lightning Bolts will be replaced.
My recommendation is to cut 2 Reclaiming Vines and 1 Roiling Terrain (although this is definitely cute) for 3 lands. 18 lands is not enough. The original lists I was playing had 21 lands and even that I thought was not enough. I've been playing 22 (with no birds) and am never looking back. Acidic slime is a card I've considered many times and it being able to remove a random enchantment is pretty sweet but...the body is useless. A 2/2 is too fragile to matter. Why the Grove? Seems like it would just be better if it was a forest.
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Acid moss is great, but hands where you can cast turn 2 acid moss are incredibly rare and it can't be hit by GDDs. Also because this deck tops out at 5 mana (or 7 for activated abilities) the extra ramp/filtering is less important.
The 3 coursers are SO good in the main. They give you game against Burn and zoo decks, but are also far from dead in fair matchups and control matchups, gaining life, providing card advantage/filtering, and they make Chandra SO good by letting you know exactly what you're exiling (or not). They are easy to side out without undermining the deck as well.
Beast within is a very powerful card. It is a clean answer to basically everything. It's the only card in the deck that can 1 for 1 a big deaths shadow, but can also be a bad stone rain when it needs to, or even turn an unwanted forest I control into a beater. I couldn't imagine dropping them personally. They just have so much utility.
To be honest the deck at the moment feels perfect down to the last card. The sideboard has been wonderful as well, but Thrun is a new addition. If I had to change ANYTHING about the deck I might swap a feed the clan out for another Scooze.
I am 9 and 2 in competitive matches. My losses were 2-0 to Elves, as couldn't find a bonefire or bolt game 1, mulled to 5 looking for them or anger in game 2 and still never found one! And a 2-1 loss to mono white hatebears. He arbitered me with double ghost quarter on the play game 1, I crushed game 2 and I lost game 3 to a heinous misplay, where I beast withined 2 of my lands for a clock (he was on 10 I had 7 mana available) and his 2 cards in hand were Dusk/Dawn(a SB card I had yet to see in the match that I wasn't prepared for) and arbiter, with a ghost quarter on board, and he ripped another one off the top. My pigs died then my 5 remaining lands became 3. It was my first time playing against bears with any deck and I would never make that mistake again!!!
She is excellent against jund. Her wolf tokens protect your better creatures from edicts, and their 2 of maelstrom pulse is their only clean answer. Making her an instant 2 for 1 at the very very least. But generally she just takes over the game with bolts and providing your fatties haste, and making them huge.
She also provides a way to win without combat. She can deal 9 damage to face with lightning bolts and her emblem is match ending. I crushed a lantern deck in the final to 4-0 my lgs modern night the other day, using her ultimate as my way to win through double ensnaring bridge. Which is the reason I stuck her in the deck in the first place. And no one in the world playing modern is going to cast pithing needle naming Arlinn Kord!!!
Otherwise she is generally excellent anywhere planeswalkers are good anyway. Against any fair deck, control deck or deck where you want the fastest clock possible (think ad naus)
I considered a 3rd chandra at first, but figured she provided nothing different, and if my opponent needles naming chandra or casts nevermore ect the 3rd copy is just as usless as the first two. I considered Garruk, primal hunter and Nissa, vital force, but wanted to start with Arlinn because in my experience with her in standard she always over performed and impressed me with her versatility. So far she has only impressed, and I have not lost a game in which I have cast her.
Grishoalbrand:
2-1 win, though this was the pilot's first time playing the deck.
Game 1 I destroyed his only basic Swamp on turn 2, Moon on turn 3, destroyed his only basic island on turn 4, he misused his only Manamorphose to return the Borborygmos Enraged he'd looted earlier. I proceeded to win on 2 life by swinging with my beat sticks and keeping his land count low to reduce the chances of him playing Through the Breach.
Game 2 he managed to cast Through the Breach to get a Worldspine Wurm out. I needed to topdeck a Mizzium Mortars to Overload it before using Inferno Titan's 3 damage attack trigger to kill the Wurm tokens, but topped a land instead.
Game 3 I hit all the necessary cards on curve to get an easy win.
Jund:
2-0 Win. The guy was trying out Grim Flayer in his list, but claims he didn't like it because each time he got the damage trigger, he wanted to keep each card it revealed.
Game 1 I hit a turn two Moon and after destroying his green and black basics, I proceeded to win with two Goblin Dark-Dwellers.
Game 2 I didn't see a Moon, but had enough land destruction to deny him access to one colour. Won via superior beat sticks.
Dubious Challenge
2-1 win. This was actually an interesting matchup as the deck was based heavily on a design I did that has the potential for a turn two Emrakul, the Aeons Torn Thanks to a similar mana dorks set to us. After showing it to my friend, he ordered the cards. So I kind of knew what to expect.
Game 1 I kept him off green long enough to beat him with a Goblin, an Obstinate Baloth, and a Stormbreath Dragon.
Game 2 he managed to get an Emrakul off See the Unwritten, which is a backup Challenge.
Game 3 was close. I missed a few early land drops, he used Flickerwisp on my Sprawled land, I destroyed his Sprawled land, etc. I managed to stablise before he could Challenge me and managed to win with a Titan, a Dragon and a Goblin despite him hard casting Wurmcoil Engine.
The dubious challenge deck looks spicy!
No PPTQ for me today, couldn't arrange to get there in time. Will have to wait for next week.
Game 1 kept a probably not great hand of 4 lands, utopia sprawl, stone rain, and thragtusk. Opponent was on r/w burn/aggro and went guide, swift spear, swift spear, and I drew lands of guide as well as topdecked lands a fair bit (including my one off kessig wolf run). He got me to 2 life but I kept drawing lands and land destruction (3 stone rain) and played thrag to go to 7 and then another to pretty much seal the game with thrag trampling in.
Game 2 actually sided out moons and some land destruction for actual side cards against burn. Didn't matter. Opponent kept a 1 land hand against a land destruction deck, and I ripped one of the couple stone rains I left in post board and took his land. Followed it up with Obstinate Baloth and he scooped. (Actually played around him bolting arbor elf by playing utopia sprawl first to guarantee turn 2 stone rain.)
Round 2 was against kiki combo. Game one or two I got storm breath and monstrous with kessig out and trampled through for lethal (he actually tried to path the stormbreath hoping I "forgot" it had pro white...) Other games could not get enough land to cast titan/anything.
Round 3 was against my friend on bant spirits. Ended up game one having the choice between primal command and thrag tusk. Was one short off casting titan at the time. Went with command putting a land on top (he was tapped out and one card in hand) and tutored stormbreath. This was a mistake.
His one card was collected company and he tapped down my dragon with the spirit that etb taps a creature and swung for lethal. (I should have gained 7 and tutored another thrag or something.) Game 2 could not get off 3 land.
Round 4 was against fish. Was able to win game 1 by keeping him off lands which was a surprise. Game 2 and 3 he was able to keep me off sprawl and my arbor elf tapped while I couldn't do much.
Deck list was pretty good despite results. I was told that one of the best cards to help the deck overall is Chalice of the Void. Might give those a spin next time.
I personally think that is incorrect against burn. I played burn exclusively for over a year. Taking out acid moss and stone rain is fine, burn can obviously operate well with limited lands. But they struggle to remove a moon, and they play no non mountain basics in 99% of lists. Once you moon them they can never remove it or cast a green/white/black spell for the rest of the game. I have won many a game against burn because they died with 2 or 3 R/W R/G burn spells in hand that were useless.
If a blood moon blanks 2 burn spells that's 6 life gained.
I'm coming to report on my PPTQ today. One where I ended up winning it
I know we've been talking back and forth about what the ideal package is and a page or two back I highlighted what I believed was the correct core of the deck. I'm here to report on my result and share my deck list with all of you. Maybe throw in my thought process.
Round 1 vs Esper Control
Game 1: T2 Blood moon locked him out of the game.
Game 2: T3 Choke locked him out of the game.
I added choke to my sideboard because of the fish match-up. I found this one to be incredibly difficult and moon does nothing here. Replacing some with Choke WILL give you free wins. More on choke later...
1-0
Round 2 vs Fish
Game 1: I'm on the draw here and manage to win this match off lucky Bonfire.
Game 2: He overruns me before I can really do anything (although top decking a Bonfire would have won me the game).
Game 3: He kept a one land hand (cavern of souls), I land choke T2 and lock him out of the game.
2-0
Round 3 vs Fish (yes, only 2 players and I played against both)
Game 1: I keep him off his lords with Chandra and bonfires.
Game 2: He kept a one-lander with vial, but I pop it with Abrade and follow up with Choke and he concedes.
3-0
Round 4 vs Jeskai Tempo
Game 1: I T2 blood moon and he basically doesn't do anything for the match.
Game 2: He counters a couple things, but eventually burns me out.
Game 3: Moon and choke hold him off available mana, I'm at 5 and he aims to burn me out, but a timely Thragtusk puts the game out of reach.
4-0
Round 5 & 6 I draw. 4-0-2.
Top 8 (finished 3rd overall)
Quarter finals vs GB Tron
This is a matchup that turned out to be more difficult than I expected. Mostly because of the damn artifacts that can be converted for cards and mana.
Game 1: Blood moon T2, keep him off his lands to eventually finish him off with a Stormbreath.
Game 2: I T2 Blood moon but he's ready for it with Nature's claim. I'm able to keep him off Tron but not off drawing lands naturally. I get him down to 5 but he lands a wurmcoil. I had my own, we trade (i have an abrade in hand) but I never draw another threat that matter. He lands Karn followed by another wurm coil where my only out is Bonfire. I draw, it's not bonfire. Off to Game 3.
Game 3: I land a T3 Chandra and my gameplan is just to get to the emblem. I keep him off Tron with a moon and some land D, get to the emblem, GG.
5-0-2
Semi finals vs: Grixis Death Shadow
This is the match up where going first is the most important thing. Sadly, my opponent finished in 2nd and gets to choose.
Game 1: He rapes my hand and I die to an angler (i had acceleration, moon, land d).
Game 2: T1 Utopia Sprawl. My hand is: Land, Choke, Stone Rain, Blood Moon. He fetches for a U/B land, thought seizes me, sees my hand, let's out a sigh, takes the moon. I play the choke and pass turn. He draws, concedes.
Game 3: He plays a fetch but pass. He start with Utopia Sprawl hoping he counters it. He does. I proceed to play an elf, which he never kills. He draws some cards, inquisitions me but has no pressure. I rip off the top a Chameleon colossus. Opponent has the "holy ***** i'm dead" face. I put him from 11 to 3 and pass. He draws, and concedes. His hand: 2 Terminate.
6-0-2
Finals vs Jeskai Tempo
Game 1: I get to start, it matters. T1 Elf (he plays colonade), T2 moon. GG.
Game 2: We go back and forth until we hit top deck mode. He snaps a negate on my acid moss, enchants a steel of the god head on it and starts pressuring me. I draw 5 straight lands and die.
Game 3: T2 Choke. Land D. Primal command his tapped colonnade and fetch Stormbreath. GG.
7-0-2 and an RPTQ invite.
Here's my deck list:
4 Arbor Elf
2 Thragtusk
2 Stormbreath
2 Inferno Titan
1 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Chandra, the defiant torch
4 Stone Rain
4 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
2 Molten Rain
2 Bonfire of the damned
4 Blood Moon
3 Trinisphere
2 Primal Command
4 Windswept Heath
2 Stomping Ground
1 Cinder Glade
1 Mountain
10 Forest
2 Abrade
2 Choke
2 Chameleon Colossus
2 Tireless Tracker
3 Anger of the Gods
1 Creeping Corossion
2 Relic of Progenitus
Cinder Glade: Should be a Sheltered Thicket but I forgot to make the switch.
I didn't end up playing against Affinity this time, but both it and Fish are our toughest matchup. Which is why I dedicate the most sideboard cards to them. Abrade has the benefit of being useful in pretty much any matchup. Going to the face is not really important with the "burn spell" since your threats are all hay makers anyways.
Relic is not super useful but does have its uses. It's decent against DS so you always want to bring it. But you don't *need* it. If they inquisition you, they have to take it or their game plan is going to suck. Which leaves room to do other things.
Tireless Tracker is the only card I'm so-so on. It can be great, but it's only really useful against the control match ups because you want to bring in more threats anyways since they are bringing in a bunch of negates. Nothing like having them sitting there with negates and you landing a Tracker. But I can see it being switched to something that's more useful. One thing I will note though, if you switch the card with something else, make sure it's either a threat or something that will lock out the opponent. Modern is all about not letting your opponents play magic. Always remember that and you'll do fine.
A lot of you guys keep the birds in your main and I am convinced that's wrong. The card can't attack, is a horrible top deck and you really don't need it. Cut it. You'll thank me later.
The only game I wish I had a KWR was vs GB Tron Game 2. But other than that, not once did I feel like I needed that card. Cut it.
1. How good is Trinisphere for you?
2. I hate thragtusk, and find practically anything is better in that slot. I hate it against burn as well, which is a matchup some people are convinced it's good in. What matchups does it impress you in?
3. You played Abrade instead of Ancient grudge, shattering spree or destructive revelry. How often did you use the 3 damage mode, and did it feel better than ancient grudge?
4. On a scale of '1' to 'I'm so F***ing dead' how bad are dredge, hollowvine and living end matchups for you with only 2 relics for graveyard hate?
5. You mentioned wolf run was a card you don't like. I agree. However, you were playing a Cinder glade (which you mentioned should be a thicket) but eiher way, I dislike it for the same reason I don't like wolf run. If your hand is forest, cinderglade, elf, sprawl, moon, and any 2 other non land cards I feel like you've shot yourself in the foot for no reason, and that every land should be able to enter untapped in our deck. Your thoughts on this?
I love the inclusion of Chameleon colossus and choke by the way. Thanks again for the report!
1: Trinisphere locks out burn. It's your single best card against them. I played it main because my meta tends to have a lot of zoo/burn. However, going forward, it can definitely be pushed back to the sideboard. It's much better on the play than the draw.
2: Thragtusk has it's uses. It's particularly good against anything that runs path. But making the shift to Baloth might end up being better since it costs one less and does have some applications against GDS/Jund. It's not a hay maker.
3: I wanted to play Abrade specifically because of affinity and fish. Being able to shoot a land/lord/artifact is a slight edge over all 3 of those cards. Shattering spree is a sorcery. I may as well run by force which is unaffected by a chalice at 1. If you don't expect any Fish in your meta, then grudge is marginally better, I think.
4: Living is a better match up than the other 2. Mainly because of moon/land d. Trinisphere is great here. A must. Hollowvine is not consistent enough to really make an impact. It's a "win on t2 or do nothing" kind of deck. Dregde is not very popular here but moon/land d and angers should be good here. With that said, every deck has unbeatable hands (see my game vs GDS).
5: The Thicket is in there for a single reason: To be cycled. It's pretty unlikely that you'll ever fetch it out, but you want to have a critical mass of lands. It serves as an insurance for the worst case scenario. I think the tiny edge gained from it being cyclable over just being another land makes a difference. There were games where I would have wanted that.
Choke could potentially be switched to Boil. Boil is better on the draw and Choke on the play. But I really like Choke in the current meta.
That aside thanks for taking the time to answer!
Yes, I know that the chalice doesn't affect the subsequent replicates. But having to spend an extra mana just to hit the card twice can be an issue. It gets around Teeg, I guess haha. I wouldn't play either anyways as they are too narrow. I would rather play that gremlin version where you get 2/2 dudes if I were to play a card like SS.
Chalice on 1 is only really good against us if we're on the draw. Sometimes your opponents forget the trigger though...
That 4 drop land/elf/sprawl hand happened more often than you'd think to me yesterday. There's nothing more satisfying than to untap with 6 mana available to your opponents 1 land. Really hard to lose from that spot. And it's turns like that that make this deck so good.
I agree with the last statement fully. When looking at a modern deck I have several criteria that need to be addressed
1. Does the deck have unbeatable starts/hands?
2. Does the deck lose to a single hate card, or get rekt by specific popular sideboard tech?
3. Does the deck have good/decent matchups against the relevant popular decks of the format?
4. Can the deck beat a turn 1 goblin guide?
Ponza is the real deal at the moment. I am so happy it's going under the radar. I look at the 'tier 1' section of this site and laugh, all those matchups are favorable in my experience, bar burn, which is 60/40 them pre sideboard, and better by far post board, and affinity, which is also entirely beatable, though unfavorable.
The longer we go under the radar the better.
RG Titan Scapeshift GR
UBWAd Nauseam WBU
CEldrazi TronC
Missed the 2 primal commands. Updated now.
Basically I look at Skred as a reactive deck that does well against aggro decks (other than boggles), creature decks, and control decks but struggles against combo decks (Storm, Ad Nauseam, Scapeshift, Grishoalbrand) and all Tron Variants.
This is where I may need some correction but it appears that Ponza is a far more proactive deck that isn't quite as good against the aggro decks, creature decks, but gains a lot against Combo and Tron decks (faster ramp into more land destruction/disruption). Am I roughly correct about this assessment?
I really do like playing Skred but post-board I often side in Molten Rains and feel like a poor imitation of Ponza, so I'm considering the switch to Ponza.
I lent him the deck to which he tweaked for his play style. His record was 3-2-1 but he could've gone 4-1-1 and possibly dominate the Top 8 and winning the tournament but due to confusion on the tournament prize structure he decided to have a concession with his last round opponent. I am part to blame as I did not brief him on the stakes and I left during round 5 as he thought after the swiss rounds that the tourney is over and the top 8 players are the winners. FYI, this is only his second Modern tournament (he rarely plays Modern as he plays Pauper) and was not familiar on how the tournament works.
We had a Draw for Round 1 as we were paired with another late competitor so I am left wondering of the possibilities had we arrived on time.
This was the decklist:
2x Acidic Slime
4x Arbor Elf
4x Avalanche Riders
2x Birds of Paradise
2x Inferno Titan
Enchantments (4)
4x Utopia Sprawl
Instants (4)
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Crumble to Dust
3x Mizzium Mortars
4x Molten Rain
4x Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
2x Reclaiming Vines
1x Roiling Terrain
4x Stone Rain
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
Lands
1x Cinder Glade
4x Forest
1x Grove of the Burnwillows
2x Mountain
3x Stomping Ground
4x Windswept Heath
3x Wooded Foothills
Apologies as I don't have the sideboard as he made the list on the fly. We initially talked about adding Blood Moon at the sideboard before the event but I guess he forgot and was pressured listing the deck and adjusting the sideboard.
I watched a couple of his games and I can tell that he can pilot the deck better had he had reps from it. This was the first time he used the deck by the way.
Acidic Slime - Was added because of the 2-in-1 effect without the drawback of Avalanche Riders. It was a great card against Death's Shadow due to Deathtouch.
Chandra, Pyromaster - This would have been Chandra, Torch of Defiance but due to budgetary reasons I had to settle with this.
Cinder Glade - This could've been the 4th Stompy Ground but I don't have it. I'd rather change it to a Forest as it is bad in an opening hand.
Windswept Heath - This was supposed to be 3 only and Wooded Foothills should be 4 instead.
I plan to play this weekend with an updated list:
2x Acidic Slime
4x Arbor Elf
4x Avalanche Riders
2x Birds of Paradise
2x Inferno Titan
Enchantments (4)
4x Utopia Sprawl
Instants (4)
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Crumble to Dust
3x Mizzium Mortars
4x Molten Rain
4x Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
2x Reclaiming Vines
1x Roiling Terrain
4x Stone Rain
1x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Lands (18)
5x Forest
1x Grove of the Burnwillows
2x Mountain
3x Stomping Ground
3x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
I'm going to give this a try as we both feel the normal land destruction count on accepted Ponza lists are not enough. I'll see if I can borrow a Chandra, TOD but if not then I'll stick with the Pyromaster. The sideboard is a work in progress and there's a big chance that it will include Blood Moons.
I might go to 4 Acidic Slimes and cut the 2 Reclaiming Vines.
I like Abrade as it can hit an artifact because Affinity is slightly favored against us. If I'm able to get a set before the weekend, then the Lightning Bolts will be replaced.
Hello my hateful skred homie.
Your deck... isn't a deck. Playing snow covered lands for a decent removal spell, then playing hate cards and pia & Kiran does not make a modern powerhouse. Don't get me wrong, I love Skred, and I always root for it when a pro streamer plays with or against it, as I love jank. But Ponza is the real deal. We have the focus and raw power Skred lacks to push us over the top.
The biggest 2 differences I think are that we play less bad cards, and more often have 'free wins' or unbeatable starts. Do you know who can beat turn 2 bloodmoon on the play in an unknown matchup? Mefolk, Skred and elves are capable. That's about it. Maybe a control deck player knows enough from 'forest, arbor elf, go' to play a fetchland and pass, holding up spell pierce. But we generally smash control anyways.
Skreds game plan as you know is to be an annoying d***, control the board with removal and the graveyard if need be with relic then use value threats to win the fair match once you've dragged the opponent back down to your level. Our good/decent hands either slow the opponents mana crippling them, before casting a big dumb threat that wins the game while the opponent is still trying to catch up. Or we just destroy their mana completely, even if we don't have a threat the opponent can fight back, and we have all the time in the world to find a fatty.
You are correct in that Skred has better matchups against aggro. Burn and affinity are beatable for us (especially post board) but you guys generally crush them, where as we are slight underdogs against burn, and very much underdogs against Affinity. However, much like ponza we have a sideboard full of hateful hateful cards to be a pain in the ass against any deck in the format which evens the ledger, whereas no one has anti LD tech! We are pretty good against creature decks though, as anger of the gods and bonfire of the damned are pretty good cards, and we can go bigger than most decks.
Personally I have found Ponza to be a very rewarding investment (was a long time burn player) in both fun (for me at least) and wins. I recommend you give it a go! There are multiple good builds of the deck, just find the one that suits your playstyle.
Good luck and **** land.
My recommendation is to cut 2 Reclaiming Vines and 1 Roiling Terrain (although this is definitely cute) for 3 lands. 18 lands is not enough. The original lists I was playing had 21 lands and even that I thought was not enough. I've been playing 22 (with no birds) and am never looking back. Acidic slime is a card I've considered many times and it being able to remove a random enchantment is pretty sweet but...the body is useless. A 2/2 is too fragile to matter. Why the Grove? Seems like it would just be better if it was a forest.