I've been reading this thread and have really been loving the amount of flexibility we have in this deck, but sometimes I've found myself a bit confused as to what should go where! I've found that I've had a lot of difficulty beating Death's Shadow (Jund) decks, which from what I've seen here I shouldn't be having THAT much difficulty with (lose almost every time q.q) and I can't quite put my finger on why and was wondering if my list should be changed at all, or if I'm just badly misplaying.
Usually, I'll try SB in the Trinispheres, Magus, Relics, and maybe Finks, so maybe I'm just boarding poorly? The mainboard I love Huntmaster and I've never been terribly sad seeing it which is why I put two. If you have any suggestions I'd be happy to hear them! Going to play casually at a shop tonight so I'm hoping I have better luck today!
Also, any thoughts on star of extinction (5rr, kill a land deal 20 to all creatures and planeswalkers) and lavaball trap? I feel like they could be kind of cool, but might be too high cost or situational and by the time we would get around to playing them, we should be focusing more on ending the game rather than blowing up lands!
I've been reading this thread and have really been loving the amount of flexibility we have in this deck, but sometimes I've found myself a bit confused as to what should go where! I've found that I've had a lot of difficulty beating Death's Shadow (Jund) decks, which from what I've seen here I shouldn't be having THAT much difficulty with (lose almost every time q.q) and I can't quite put my finger on why and was wondering if my list should be changed at all, or if I'm just badly misplaying.
Usually, I'll try SB in the Trinispheres, Magus, Relics, and maybe Finks, so maybe I'm just boarding poorly? The mainboard I love Huntmaster and I've never been terribly sad seeing it which is why I put two. If you have any suggestions I'd be happy to hear them! Going to play casually at a shop tonight so I'm hoping I have better luck today!
Also, any thoughts on star of extinction (5rr, kill a land deal 20 to all creatures and planeswalkers) and lavaball trap? I feel like they could be kind of cool, but might be too high cost or situational and by the time we would get around to playing them, we should be focusing more on ending the game rather than blowing up lands!
Thanks for any help and input!
Slime, Thrun, Thragtusk, & Huntmaster aren't bad cards, but I'd suggest tinkering around in order to accommodate another copy of Stormbreath and another 1-2 of Inferno Titan. For instance, I usually run Thragtusk & Thrun out of the side (when I'm playing them), but it's definitely a meta call.
I've finally move the Spheres to the main and have been happy with that decision. I've also added 2 molten rains to keep the consistency of a t2 land destruction spell and been happy with that too.
The main issue is the number of threats the deck can realistically have with all the busting lands spells. I feel like the following creature package main is the best combination i've had so far:
I play 2 Chandra (torch of defiance) as another hard to deal with threat that's not a creature. The rest is a mix of Thragtusks/Chameleon Colossus/Thrun. I've cut Finks entirely because there's not really any matchup where i actively want the card (yes, that includes burn as i feel like the matchup is already decent).
I've been trying Tracker but it just clogs up the 3 drop slot. I like Courser for a while but it's just too weak. It doesn't affect the board enough and you can't really put enough pressure on an opponent with it.
I like the GDD but...you need to have more <3 spells in the deck and i'm not really sure that's the direction the deck wants to go. Not making use of the graveyard is a plus in my opinion.
As for Hazoret and the KWR...both are hot garbage in my opinion. Especially the latter. The deck is color hungry (double red/double green) and having any colorless land can hurt you too much.
I played a PPTQ two weeks ago and finished 4-2. My losses came to ETron (!!) and Fish. I beat: Death Shadow, ETron, Spirits, PillowFort.
Pillowfort was the deck that made me want to have enchantment hate main going forward. Chameleon Colossus was lights out vs DS.
I like the GDD but...you need to have more <3 spells in the deck and i'm not really sure that's the direction the deck wants to go. Not making use of the graveyard is a plus in my opinion.
How many 3 or less spells do you think is needed for Goblin Dark-Dwellers? I only run 10 legal targets for the Goblin (4 Mizzium Mortars, 4 Stone Rain, and 2 Beast Within) with 3 mainboard goblins and I almost always have something to recast.
I played a PPTQ two weeks ago and finished 4-2. My losses came to ETron (!!) and Fish. I beat: Death Shadow, ETron, Spirits, PillowFort.
Pillowfort was the deck that made me want to have enchantment hate main going forward. Chameleon Colossus was lights out vs DS.
Is Pillow Fort so prevalent that it would warrant MB enchantment hate? Honestly never knew it existed until reading your post, so I went and did some research; looks like a huge pain in the ass haha. If that deck is becoming popular then I'll have to shelve my Bogles for a while.
That's pretty close to how I'd board. I might leave the Titan in since that is the bomb that means the most against affinity. But my usual plan is also to lower curve, so I might do the same thing with that list.
Congrats on your FNM.
I haven't had the honor to play against infect, how is it?
Hey all! I just recently sold off some stuff I had lying around and used the $$ to get the Blood Moon's and some other stuff I was missing, and now there is a PPTQ locally for modern next weekend and I want to do my best to prepare.
Right now I have the pretty much stock list put together, but want to make the appropriate changes with the meta in mind.
I have tested the deck out a bit and I am enjoying it, but it seems to need some work.
1) A decent amount of time, I will have the nuts opening of Forest, Mana dork/sprawl, for turn 2 blood moon, and then proceed to just draw all the land destruction and keep them off lands while drawing no threats and just running out of gas.
2) A friend of mine plays Bant Spirits (Company) and that match up is kind of rough. Yes if I can turn 2 moon and land a threat it is ok, but all of my convetional sideboard cards seem just dead. That deck has a lot of tricky lines of play to counter spells or make their board indestructible, which really limits the usefulness of conventional sweepers like Bonfire of the Damned or Anger of the Gods.
Obviously I don't want to skew my sideboard/main too far just to have a better match-up against kind of a rogue deck (spirits), but if I can I'd like to make some reasonable adjustments.
The meta is a bit unknown as our local group for modern is small and up to 30+ people could be coming in for the tournament. I am not super familiar with the match-ups or current meta so any advice would be appreciated. Right now my only tactic is to assume a fair bit of aggro is going to populate the field so I'll need a plan for Affinity, Atarka Red (or whatever).
I am thinking maybe a version running Goblin Dark Dwellers might be the way to go? Just because of the extra interaction and threats? I am not sure though. :/
my thoughts exactly..many lists i've been seeing run 3-4 moons..i would like to hear opinions from those who are still running it, is it still worth its slot? i feel it would just be turned off majority of the time..
I'm with you on this. I know Kessig Wolf Run is in most lists, but I don't miss it at all. This is a card that suffers badly from confirmation bias. You remember that one time where it opened up a clever path to the win, but you don't remember those times you have to take a mulligan because your otherwise playable hand is hampered by a land that taps for C.
Early plays are critical. We must make our 1-drop so we can make our turn two 3- or 4-drop. And Sprawl means we really want an early basic Forest. We're already forced to run three Stomping Grounds and a Mountain. Adding a fifth land that doesn't give us a good Sprawl target hurts us more than it helps us.
Plus, as you say, we're a Blood Moon deck. Utility lands are a nonbo with the best card in our deck.
Mizzium mortars can't sweep the board early, and you can't overload with dark dwellers.
At least with Mortars you can get some use out of it from the graveyard. You can't choose a value for X off a Goblin targeting Bonfire as you cast it "without paying its mana cost."
Any thoughts on Chandra, Flamecaller? I run her in my maindeck and she really does everything I want.
I tested both chandras and I personally have preferred the 4 mana one instead. 6 mana is a little tough at times and the 4 mana one allows you to ramp. You could always do a split but they do kind of compete with each other.
Any thoughts on Chandra, Flamecaller? I run her in my maindeck and she really does everything I want.
I am in love with torch of defiance personally. Ramp, kill spell, clock, card advantage and a game winning ultimate
I won a 4 round modern event at my LGS last night. With the list I posted earlier. Was very happy with the deck, and especially what happened in the ultimate game.
Round 1 vs Jeskai control.
Not much to say, he only ran 2 islands, and played 4 cryptic commands. Moon did its thing and he died with a hand full of spells he couldn't cast in both games.
Round 2 vs Jund.
Lost game 1 off a mull to 6 in which I only drew basic lands, and died with a hand full of stormbreaths and GDDs. First time I have been color screwed with this deck.
Game 2 and 3 went smoothly. My threats are bigger and his lands exploded.
round 3 vs a friend of mine on valakut breach.
Game 1 was smooth, blew up his forests then mooned him. Game 2 was UTTER BS!!!!! I blew up his forest, he cast crucible of worlds. I blew up crucible, he casts ramunap excavator. I moon him, he casts back to nature. Turns out both the excavator and the crucible are both 1 ofs!!!! I lost game 2. Game 3 I was behind, and saved by the fact that he played 3 lands in his turn 2 after an explore. He scooped because he was able to cast extra spells with the extra lands obviously. I only noticed 2 turns later when he was casting a prime time that something was wrong. ***** way to win but it is what it is.
Round 4 vs lantern.
He locked me good and early game 1. Game 2 he mulled to 5 and scooped early. Round 3 was close, I had some LD and artifact destruction, but he had a bridge. I won the game with an Arlinn Kord emblem out of the sideboard!!! The look on everyones face when an Arlinn Kord won the deciding round of a modern night was fantastic. He couldn't find a pithing needle and some stormbreath dragons tapping took him down!!!
Any thoughts on Chandra, Flamecaller? I run her in my maindeck and she really does everything I want.
I've yet to get Chandra, Torch of Defiance, but I've had a single Chandra Flamecaller in place of a 4th Inferno Titan for a long time. I wouldn't run both Chandras as they do different things but can't be out at the same time. I like keeping her as a 1 of in my deck as it's the 5th sweeper (her -X, I main 4 Mizzium Mortars) that doubles as a threat (her +1). I almost never use her wheel effect (her 0).
6 mana Chandys wheel is underrated I found in standard, but if your hands are always good you aren't going to use it I guess.
However I can't speak highly enough of Torch of defiance. Such a powerful and versatile card, I highly recommend everyone try it in their lists, also Arlinn Kord. What can I say, I love the ladies and I love lots of modes hahaha
Utility lands are a nonbo with the best card in our deck.
I disagree with you.
Utility lands are gold when we don't have a Moon on the field, or when it's useless.
At worst case, KWR is a Mountain and that's ok for us!
I used to think that, but the actual worst case scenario is having to Mulligan because you have KWR instead of a Forest for the upside of having a Mountain that sometimes works better when you have Birds out but not Moon.
Utility lands are gold when we don't have a Moon on the field, or when it's useless.
At worst case, KWR is a Mountain and that's ok for us!
KWR is going to be fine either way by the time turn three rolls around. The cost of running it comes from before then, in the first couple of turns and when mulliganing. The costs are higher than gut instinct suggests, and the upside isn't all that great.
The worst case isn't having a Kessig Wolf Mountain under a resolved Blood Moon. The worst case is the opening hand Kessig Wolf Run which you badly wish was a Forest. A great many opening hands get way worse if you swap a Forest with a Wolf Run, and none get significantly better.
This opening hand represents a fragile T2 Blood Moon, and one where you are going to stall out unless you draw a natural Forest. Replace the Kessig Wolf Run with a Forest, and this becomes an unequivocal god hand.
I think there are good arguments both for and against including Kessig Wolf Run main.
From my own experience playing G/X Devotion (Which runs 5 colourless lands and the same arbor elf/utopia sprawl package) the absolute worst thing is opening a one land hand and the one land cannot make G. Normally one land hands are pretty bad regardless, but at least with elf, birds and sprawl they can get there. (Sometimes).
On the flip side, going down from 5 colourless lands to one (and a basic mountain I guess too) should be an acceptable risk for the upside of the scenario of if you don't get moon (or moon is a dead card) you can turn any creature into a threat. Kessig is also an out against Ensnaring Bridge combined with a 0 power creature like Birds of Paradise.
Perhaps the compromise is to run kessig as a sideboard card against the odd match-ups where moon is dead or kessig is a good out.
I really like a lot of stuff going on in this list. Might run it this weekend myself!
Any reason why you're not running Mwonvuli Acid-Moss? The biggest difference that jumps out at me is you've shaved a couple land destruction cards (-4 Moss +2 Molten Rain) for +2 Courser of Kruphix. Seems like a solid move as courser is good against aggro and burn
and improves the quality of your draws.
I'd be tempted to shave 1 or both Beast Within, how have they been for you?
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I've been reading this thread and have really been loving the amount of flexibility we have in this deck, but sometimes I've found myself a bit confused as to what should go where! I've found that I've had a lot of difficulty beating Death's Shadow (Jund) decks, which from what I've seen here I shouldn't be having THAT much difficulty with (lose almost every time q.q) and I can't quite put my finger on why and was wondering if my list should be changed at all, or if I'm just badly misplaying.
1x Acidic Slime
4x Arbor Elf
2x Birds of Paradise
2x Huntmaster of the Fells
1x Inferno Titan
2x Stormbreath Dragon
1x Thragtusk
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Wurmcoil Engine
4x Blood Moon
4x Utopia Sprawl
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Mountain
3x Stomping Ground
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
3x Bonfire of the Damned
4x Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
2x Primal Command
4x Stone Rain
Planeswalker (2)
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2x Ancient Grudge
3x Anger of the Gods
1x Choke
2x Kitchen Finks
1x Magus of the Moon
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Sudden Shock
2x Trinisphere
Usually, I'll try SB in the Trinispheres, Magus, Relics, and maybe Finks, so maybe I'm just boarding poorly? The mainboard I love Huntmaster and I've never been terribly sad seeing it which is why I put two. If you have any suggestions I'd be happy to hear them! Going to play casually at a shop tonight so I'm hoping I have better luck today!
Also, any thoughts on star of extinction (5rr, kill a land deal 20 to all creatures and planeswalkers) and lavaball trap? I feel like they could be kind of cool, but might be too high cost or situational and by the time we would get around to playing them, we should be focusing more on ending the game rather than blowing up lands!
Thanks for any help and input!
Slime, Thrun, Thragtusk, & Huntmaster aren't bad cards, but I'd suggest tinkering around in order to accommodate another copy of Stormbreath and another 1-2 of Inferno Titan. For instance, I usually run Thragtusk & Thrun out of the side (when I'm playing them), but it's definitely a meta call.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
The main issue is the number of threats the deck can realistically have with all the busting lands spells. I feel like the following creature package main is the best combination i've had so far:
2 Inferno Titan
1 Wurmcoil Engine
I play 2 Chandra (torch of defiance) as another hard to deal with threat that's not a creature. The rest is a mix of Thragtusks/Chameleon Colossus/Thrun. I've cut Finks entirely because there's not really any matchup where i actively want the card (yes, that includes burn as i feel like the matchup is already decent).
I've been trying Tracker but it just clogs up the 3 drop slot. I like Courser for a while but it's just too weak. It doesn't affect the board enough and you can't really put enough pressure on an opponent with it.
I like the GDD but...you need to have more <3 spells in the deck and i'm not really sure that's the direction the deck wants to go. Not making use of the graveyard is a plus in my opinion.
As for Hazoret and the KWR...both are hot garbage in my opinion. Especially the latter. The deck is color hungry (double red/double green) and having any colorless land can hurt you too much.
I played a PPTQ two weeks ago and finished 4-2. My losses came to ETron (!!) and Fish. I beat: Death Shadow, ETron, Spirits, PillowFort.
Pillowfort was the deck that made me want to have enchantment hate main going forward. Chameleon Colossus was lights out vs DS.
Is Pillow Fort so prevalent that it would warrant MB enchantment hate? Honestly never knew it existed until reading your post, so I went and did some research; looks like a huge pain in the ass haha. If that deck is becoming popular then I'll have to shelve my Bogles for a while.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Congrats on your FNM.
I haven't had the honor to play against infect, how is it?
Right now I have the pretty much stock list put together, but want to make the appropriate changes with the meta in mind.
2 Birds of Paradise
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Acidic Slime
2 Thragtusk
2 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Inferno Titan
3 Bonfire of the Damned
4 Stone Rain
4 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
2 Primal Command
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Blood Moon
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Mountain
3 Stomping Ground
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
I have tested the deck out a bit and I am enjoying it, but it seems to need some work.
1) A decent amount of time, I will have the nuts opening of Forest, Mana dork/sprawl, for turn 2 blood moon, and then proceed to just draw all the land destruction and keep them off lands while drawing no threats and just running out of gas.
2) A friend of mine plays Bant Spirits (Company) and that match up is kind of rough. Yes if I can turn 2 moon and land a threat it is ok, but all of my convetional sideboard cards seem just dead. That deck has a lot of tricky lines of play to counter spells or make their board indestructible, which really limits the usefulness of conventional sweepers like Bonfire of the Damned or Anger of the Gods.
Obviously I don't want to skew my sideboard/main too far just to have a better match-up against kind of a rogue deck (spirits), but if I can I'd like to make some reasonable adjustments.
The meta is a bit unknown as our local group for modern is small and up to 30+ people could be coming in for the tournament. I am not super familiar with the match-ups or current meta so any advice would be appreciated. Right now my only tactic is to assume a fair bit of aggro is going to populate the field so I'll need a plan for Affinity, Atarka Red (or whatever).
I am thinking maybe a version running Goblin Dark Dwellers might be the way to go? Just because of the extra interaction and threats? I am not sure though. :/
Thanks for your help!
Mizzium mortars can't sweep the board early, and you can't overload with dark dwellers.
I'm with you on this. I know Kessig Wolf Run is in most lists, but I don't miss it at all. This is a card that suffers badly from confirmation bias. You remember that one time where it opened up a clever path to the win, but you don't remember those times you have to take a mulligan because your otherwise playable hand is hampered by a land that taps for C.
Early plays are critical. We must make our 1-drop so we can make our turn two 3- or 4-drop. And Sprawl means we really want an early basic Forest. We're already forced to run three Stomping Grounds and a Mountain. Adding a fifth land that doesn't give us a good Sprawl target hurts us more than it helps us.
Plus, as you say, we're a Blood Moon deck. Utility lands are a nonbo with the best card in our deck.
I tested both chandras and I personally have preferred the 4 mana one instead. 6 mana is a little tough at times and the 4 mana one allows you to ramp. You could always do a split but they do kind of compete with each other.
I am in love with torch of defiance personally. Ramp, kill spell, clock, card advantage and a game winning ultimate
I won a 4 round modern event at my LGS last night. With the list I posted earlier. Was very happy with the deck, and especially what happened in the ultimate game.
Round 1 vs Jeskai control.
Not much to say, he only ran 2 islands, and played 4 cryptic commands. Moon did its thing and he died with a hand full of spells he couldn't cast in both games.
Round 2 vs Jund.
Lost game 1 off a mull to 6 in which I only drew basic lands, and died with a hand full of stormbreaths and GDDs. First time I have been color screwed with this deck.
Game 2 and 3 went smoothly. My threats are bigger and his lands exploded.
round 3 vs a friend of mine on valakut breach.
Game 1 was smooth, blew up his forests then mooned him. Game 2 was UTTER BS!!!!! I blew up his forest, he cast crucible of worlds. I blew up crucible, he casts ramunap excavator. I moon him, he casts back to nature. Turns out both the excavator and the crucible are both 1 ofs!!!! I lost game 2. Game 3 I was behind, and saved by the fact that he played 3 lands in his turn 2 after an explore. He scooped because he was able to cast extra spells with the extra lands obviously. I only noticed 2 turns later when he was casting a prime time that something was wrong. ***** way to win but it is what it is.
Round 4 vs lantern.
He locked me good and early game 1. Game 2 he mulled to 5 and scooped early. Round 3 was close, I had some LD and artifact destruction, but he had a bridge. I won the game with an Arlinn Kord emblem out of the sideboard!!! The look on everyones face when an Arlinn Kord won the deciding round of a modern night was fantastic. He couldn't find a pithing needle and some stormbreath dragons tapping took him down!!!
However I can't speak highly enough of Torch of defiance. Such a powerful and versatile card, I highly recommend everyone try it in their lists, also Arlinn Kord. What can I say, I love the ladies and I love lots of modes hahaha
I used to think that, but the actual worst case scenario is having to Mulligan because you have KWR instead of a Forest for the upside of having a Mountain that sometimes works better when you have Birds out but not Moon.
KWR is going to be fine either way by the time turn three rolls around. The cost of running it comes from before then, in the first couple of turns and when mulliganing. The costs are higher than gut instinct suggests, and the upside isn't all that great.
The worst case isn't having a Kessig Wolf Mountain under a resolved Blood Moon. The worst case is the opening hand Kessig Wolf Run which you badly wish was a Forest. A great many opening hands get way worse if you swap a Forest with a Wolf Run, and none get significantly better.
The worst case looks like this:
Stomping Ground
Kessig Wolf Run ???
Arbor Elf
Utopia Sprawl
Blood Moon
Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
Inferno Titan
This opening hand represents a fragile T2 Blood Moon, and one where you are going to stall out unless you draw a natural Forest. Replace the Kessig Wolf Run with a Forest, and this becomes an unequivocal god hand.
From my own experience playing G/X Devotion (Which runs 5 colourless lands and the same arbor elf/utopia sprawl package) the absolute worst thing is opening a one land hand and the one land cannot make G. Normally one land hands are pretty bad regardless, but at least with elf, birds and sprawl they can get there. (Sometimes).
On the flip side, going down from 5 colourless lands to one (and a basic mountain I guess too) should be an acceptable risk for the upside of the scenario of if you don't get moon (or moon is a dead card) you can turn any creature into a threat. Kessig is also an out against Ensnaring Bridge combined with a 0 power creature like Birds of Paradise.
Perhaps the compromise is to run kessig as a sideboard card against the odd match-ups where moon is dead or kessig is a good out.
I have a modern PPTQ on the weekend, this is the list I will be taking
Forest x10
Stomping ground x3
Wooded foothills x4
Windswept heath x3
Mountain x1
utopia sprawl x4
arbor elf x4
birds of paradise x2
blood moon x4
stone rain x4
Molten rain x2
Lightning boltx3
courser of kruphix x3
Chandra, torch of defiance x2
primal command x1
goblin dark dwellers x3
Beast within x2
stormbreath dragon x3
bonfire of the damned x2
Sideboard.
Feed the clan x3
Relic of Progenitus x3
ancient grudge x2
destructive revelry x2
anger of the gods x2
Thrun, the last troll x1
scavenging ooze x1
Arlinn Kord x1
Formatted it up for ya.
3 Stomping ground
4 Wooded foothills
3 Windswept heath
1 Mountain
4 utopia sprawl
4 arbor elf
2 birds of paradise
4 blood moon
4 stone rain
2 Molten rain
3 Lightning bolt
3 courser of kruphix
2 Chandra, torch of defiance
1 primal command
3 goblin dark dwellers
2 Beast within
3 stormbreath dragon
2 bonfire of the damned
-----------
3 Feed the clan
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 ancient grudge
2 destructive revelry
2 anger of the gods
1 Thrun, the last troll
1 scavenging ooze
1 Arlinn Kord
I really like a lot of stuff going on in this list. Might run it this weekend myself!
Any reason why you're not running Mwonvuli Acid-Moss? The biggest difference that jumps out at me is you've shaved a couple land destruction cards (-4 Moss +2 Molten Rain) for +2 Courser of Kruphix. Seems like a solid move as courser is good against aggro and burn
and improves the quality of your draws.
I'd be tempted to shave 1 or both Beast Within, how have they been for you?