Edited my comment about Dispel, as I know it doesn't counter LE or VO by extension, but I just got all the counterspells jumbled in my head.
Re: Splinter Twin. It's a winnable matchup, but I was responding to the notion that it was easy. Unlike most decks, Twin players haven't had to revolutionize their lists. They've simply tweaked them. In my experience, this makes them hard to deal with as they're usually pretty good at piloting them. On the play, they can just tap a land with a Pestermite/Exarch to keep us off three mana. Without a Spirit Guide, we're at the mercy of their draws. And if you Beast Within in response out of desperation, the token turns into Delver Counter beats. The Twin matchup is the only match where it pays to have 4 Spirit Guides, but I feel like running three is still correct since more than one early usually just means I'm fumbling around.
Delver's a tougher matchup than Twin, all things told, but it's by no means easy.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
@lotusmonk and @Raymond_K_Hessel
Thx for the share. It really interesting strategic approach. Right now I'm testing +1 SSG -1 Jungle Weaver and +1 Avalance Rider in SB let see what happen
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
------
Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierach not active Jund Tarmoless not active
DnT White
Living End Jund Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpost not active U/W Titan Control not active Mardu Nahiri/Control not active
So I've been playing Living End now for a couple of months and checking in on this thread regularly so I thought I'd pop my head up. Here's the list I'm currently running: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/11-08-15-eBZ-living-end/
I've got a few questions about how the veterans like to build their decks:
- Why does almost no-one run 4 Simian Spirit Guide? I started at two and quickly moved to 4 after realising all my real plays cost 3 mana and I often need to do something more than cycle turn 2. I have literally found no matchup where I want less than 3 and many matchups, like tron, where having 1 or 2 in my opening hand is pure gold. Why do others not like running the full set?
- What are people's opinions on Twisted Abomination vs Pale Recluse as the landcycler of choice? Initially I preferred the Recluse, but I find my Architects get bolted often enough that the spider being bolt proof is irrelevant. The reach has almost never mattered. Should I shift over to the A-bomb? Doing so lets me take out the godless shrine and discourages me from running the Stony Silence sideboard which I'm not even sure on.
- On the Affinity match-up, how do people find Macabre's work as a solution to the nightmare that is ravager when you go off? I haven't yet successfully pulled off a win by siding into the Stony solution.
- Ricochet Trap has been amazing, am I wasting my time even bothering with Boil when I could just be running a 4th Trap (or the first Dismember)? Boil has almost never performed how I expected, and on the odd occasion I'm paired to Delver or Grixis it's just not doing enough.
I don't like having the full 4 SSG because I hate topdecking them after turn 2. Every time I need something useful and get a Guide I die a little inside (and a lot on the battlefield). 3 SSG is the sweet spot where you're likely to get one early, but not enough that you topdeck dead copies later.
I agree with Monday on the reason to play 3 guide over 4. On Recluse vs abom, I like abom, but I tend to play 3 total as a 1 abom, 2 Recluse split. If you think the reach is irrelevant, them I'm glad you've never been poisoned out by an Inkmoth wearing a Plating, but it does happen. Regarding the choice affecting your splash land, being able to hard cast every card in your deck is overrated. Having just a few you know will strictly get cycled let's you play better mana at the cost of maybe 1 game a tournament where casting the land cycler was even the correct line, let alone the number of those games that line was the difference between winning and losing.
Macabre is generally fine at dealing with ravager. Mostly they only have 1-2 guys you care about and 2 macabre is basically guaranteed to get every creature that might be a threat. That said, the matchup is still not great since they force the turn 3 cascade every time and if they've seen a ravager and you didn't see some kind of hate, you're gonna have a bad time.
On Trap vs Boil, I play only a couple Trap. I feel blue decks are pretty easy most of the time. LD is great against them as a rule and we can generally force through a cascade with just an EOT outburst into a second cascade on our turn. If your meta is just lousy with blue, though, Boil is a very strong effect.
Hello to eveyone im starting to use this deck and i dont know how does the Ricochet trap works, can you redirect the counterspell to it?
Exactly right. You occasionally get the opponent that doubt that this works or that makes you say it to make sure that you know how it works, so it's good to know the mechanics. When you cast the spell you only choose one target: the counterspell. On resolution you choose what the new target of that counterspell is going to be, and Ricochet Trap is a valid choice at that time because it's on the stack in the middle of resolving. As a bonus, if it's Remand that you're doing this to, they don't get to draw a new card off of it because it winds up being countered by the game rules.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My MTG Site: Graceful Stats (deckbuilding website that actually works on mobile)
Re: Pale Recluse, having the white in your deck opens up sideboard options as well. I have never had a problem with 1x Godless Shrine and 1x Temple Garden in my deck, and it also allows me to run a 1x Wispmare in my SB (Leyline of the Void, Rest in Peace, Ghostly Prison, boggles). That being said, I could see taking out the Temple Garden for a basic forest, but if I'm playing Recluse I would never get rid of the Godless Shrine as a fetchable option to get black mana (assuming you've already played/have Overgrown Tomb in your hand already).
So I've been playing Living End now for a couple of months and checking in on this thread regularly so I thought I'd pop my head up. Here's the list I'm currently running: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/11-08-15-eBZ-living-end/
I've got a few questions about how the veterans like to build their decks:
- Why does almost no-one run 4 Simian Spirit Guide? I started at two and quickly moved to 4 after realising all my real plays cost 3 mana and I often need to do something more than cycle turn 2. I have literally found no matchup where I want less than 3 and many matchups, like tron, where having 1 or 2 in my opening hand is pure gold. Why do others not like running the full set?
4 is too much, IMHO 3 is the answer because in the mid or late game SSG is powerless
- What are people's opinions on Twisted Abomination vs Pale Recluse as the landcycler of choice? Initially I preferred the Recluse, but I find my Architects get bolted often enough that the spider being bolt proof is irrelevant. The reach has almost never mattered. Should I shift over to the A-bomb? Doing so lets me take out the godless shrine and discourages me from running the Stony Silence sideboard which I'm not even sure on.
IMHO 1 Twisted Abo and 1 Pale is good enough in MD. They purpose is cycling to get Land that u need. Architects is good because its cost B mana to cycle and if it enter the BF u can fateseal the top 3 card in opponent deck. Architect true power is in cheap cycle and 3 top fateseal
- On the Affinity match-up, how do people find Macabre's work as a solution to the nightmare that is ravager when you go off? I haven't yet successfully pulled off a win by siding into the Stony solution.
Watch LSV match against Abzan or Jund. The macabre work like this. When in the stack
-Ravager sac itself
-Sac artifact by ravager
-Sac artifact by ravager
-Sac artifact by ravager
-Living End
-Violent Outburst
U can respond by discard macabre to exile the ravager
Thats why Macabre really shine in surprise factor
- Ricochet Trap has been amazing, am I wasting my time even bothering with Boil when I could just be running a 4th Trap (or the first Dismember)? Boil has almost never performed how I expected, and on the odd occasion I'm paired to Delver or Grixis it's just not doing enough.
3 Richocet Trap IMHO is the right amount. Boil is needed against another blue deck beside Twin because its oneside armageddon. It still good enough to fight against Twin Player
Hello to eveyone im starting to use this deck and i dont know how does the Ricochet trap works, can you redirect the counterspell to it?
Exactly right. You occasionally get the opponent that doubt that this works or that makes you say it to make sure that you know how it works, so it's good to know the mechanics. When you cast the spell you only choose one target: the counterspell. On resolution you choose what the new target of that counterspell is going to be, and Ricochet Trap is a valid choice at that time because it's on the stack in the middle of resolving. As a bonus, if it's Remand that you're doing this to, they don't get to draw a new card off of it because it winds up being countered by the game rules.
Thanks!! I will start using the deck soon, ill post my list (although its so standard) and my results in my local store as soon as possible !
Be warned Living End deck is a tricky deck so dont give up early if u dont perform well. It need practice to pilot this deck
Quick Question.
If opponent control Liliana Heretical Healer and Tarmo and we go cascade, Living End does Liliana flip to Liliana Defiant Necromancer ?
Three posts merged. Remember not to double (or triple) post
-ktkenshinx-
Modern
------
Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierach not active Jund Tarmoless not active
DnT White
Living End Jund Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpost not active U/W Titan Control not active Mardu Nahiri/Control not active
Hello to eveyone im starting to use this deck and i dont know how does the Ricochet trap works, can you redirect the counterspell to it?
Exactly right. You occasionally get the opponent that doubt that this works or that makes you say it to make sure that you know how it works, so it's good to know the mechanics. When you cast the spell you only choose one target: the counterspell. On resolution you choose what the new target of that counterspell is going to be, and Ricochet Trap is a valid choice at that time because it's on the stack in the middle of resolving. As a bonus, if it's Remand that you're doing this to, they don't get to draw a new card off of it because it winds up being countered by the game rules.
Thanks!! I will start using the deck soon, ill post my list (although its so standard) and my results in my local store as soon as possible !
I went out of my way to answer this in the primer. Please look there first in the future.
Quick Question.
If opponent control Liliana Heretical Healer and Tarmo and we go cascade, Living End does Liliana flip to Liliana Defiant Necromancer ?
Liliana has to be on the battlefield to flip. If she dies at the same time as another creature, she doesn't flip.
URGImperial AnimarGRU BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB WURNarset NostalgicRUW UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU UBlue BraidsU GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WUHanna, Pillowfort's NavigatorUW WBRAleshacratsBRW UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU URGYasova the ThreateningGRU BGGlissa the ArticiferGB WUSygg MerfolkUW RSquee, Value NabobR
Re: Pale Recluse, having the white in your deck opens up sideboard options as well. I have never had a problem with 1x Godless Shrine and 1x Temple Garden in my deck, and it also allows me to run a 1x Wispmare in my SB (Leyline of the Void, Rest in Peace, Ghostly Prison, boggles). That being said, I could see taking out the Temple Garden for a basic forest, but if I'm playing Recluse I would never get rid of the Godless Shrine as a fetchable option to get black mana (assuming you've already played/have Overgrown Tomb in your hand already).
I don't necessarily disagree with this. I am going to experiment with splashing white for this reason, actually. My comment re: not being overly concerned with being unable to cast a couple cards is really because I see (IMO) too many lists with double splash land that can make a lot of opening hands that should have been fine unkeepable just so they can cast Architects and Recluse with no use of those colors out of the board. I just don't see it being worth it if your entire motivation is casting 4-6 cards that still do something when you can't cast them anyway.
Re: Pale Recluse, having the white in your deck opens up sideboard options as well. I have never had a problem with 1x Godless Shrine and 1x Temple Garden in my deck, and it also allows me to run a 1x Wispmare in my SB (Leyline of the Void, Rest in Peace, Ghostly Prison, boggles). That being said, I could see taking out the Temple Garden for a basic forest, but if I'm playing Recluse I would never get rid of the Godless Shrine as a fetchable option to get black mana (assuming you've already played/have Overgrown Tomb in your hand already).
I don't necessarily disagree with this. I am going to experiment with splashing white for this reason, actually. My comment re: not being overly concerned with being unable to cast a couple cards is really because I see (IMO) too many lists with double splash land that can make a lot of opening hands that should have been fine unkeepable just so they can cast Architects and Recluse with no use of those colors out of the board. I just don't see it being worth it if your entire motivation is casting 4-6 cards that still do something when you can't cast them anyway.
I'm surprised to hear so many people dismiss the relevance of hard-casting the Architects. I find it's reasonably common for me to cast Architects on turn 5 from hand to continue fate sealing, or on turn 4 to dig for a cascade spell myself after facing down Inquisition and Thoughseize. That said, it's very rare I hard-cast the recluse which makes removing it and the godless shrine very tempting.
Also, no one seems to mention hard-casting the Guide. This comes up often enough that I'm never super sad to see it in the late game. Sometimes it's just the blocker I need to guarantee I win a race after going off.
I didn't splash blue until recently (preferring the classic Jund manabase), but hardcasting Architects of Will is good because it's the quickest blocker to come down that also cycles which can be relevant against aggressive decks that run out of steam. The devious halimar depths tagged to it just makes it that much more effective. Yea fetches make it irrelevant, but not for us. There's enough decent interaction that pseudo scrying for Beast Within or Fulminator on a man land can be critical to say nothing of smoothing out the sequencing.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
i'm liking how well positioned the deck is right now. pulled another 5-0 tonight.
I haven't tried Liliana, Heretical Healer in this deck yet, but from what i'm done with her in Human reanimator, she is amazing.
-late game discard becomes relevant in keeping and opponent from recovering board presence.
-she doubles as a second source of reanimate. (lates game or grindy games, she's highly relevant in keeping creature presence reanimated on our side of the table.)
evoke and fulminator mage give us plenty of creatures that can flip her. Plus the face she reanimates with Living end makes her all the more useful.
i'm liking how well positioned the deck is right now. pulled another 5-0 tonight.
I haven't tried Liliana, Heretical Healer in this deck yet, but from what i'm done with her in Human reanimator, she is amazing.
-late game discard becomes relevant in keeping and opponent from recovering board presence.
-she doubles as a second source of reanimate. (lates game or grindy games, she's highly relevant in keeping creature presence reanimated on our side of the table.)
evoke and fulminator mage give us plenty of creatures that can flip her. Plus the face she reanimates with Living end makes her all the more useful.
You're willing to jump through a bunch of hoops with Liliana, Heretical Healer just so you can get a watered-down version of Liliana of the Veil, which is a card we don't play anyways?
And while you're at it, tell me how making both players discard is a way to set up profitable Living Ends.
I didn't splash blue until recently (preferring the classic Jund manabase), but hardcasting Architects of Will is good because it's the quickest blocker to come down that also cycles which can be relevant against aggressive decks that run out of steam. The devious halimar depths tagged to it just makes it that much more effective. Yea fetches make it irrelevant, but not for us. There's enough decent interaction that pseudo scrying for Beast Within or Fulminator on a man land can be critical to say nothing of smoothing out the sequencing.
You know, every time I play living end in a tournament, there is at least 1-2 times that I will always mentally note that I wish I could hardcast my architect. I'm going to have to start toying with adding a watery grave or a steam vents to see the results of that because the ETB is actually really good even though it's a boltable card
i'm liking how well positioned the deck is right now. pulled another 5-0 tonight.
I haven't tried Liliana, Heretical Healer in this deck yet, but from what i'm done with her in Human reanimator, she is amazing.
-late game discard becomes relevant in keeping and opponent from recovering board presence.
-she doubles as a second source of reanimate. (lates game or grindy games, she's highly relevant in keeping creature presence reanimated on our side of the table.)
evoke and fulminator mage give us plenty of creatures that can flip her. Plus the face she reanimates with Living end makes her all the more useful.
You're willing to jump through a bunch of hoops with Liliana, Heretical Healer just so you can get a watered-down version of Liliana of the Veil, which is a card we don't play anyways?
And while you're at it, tell me how making both players discard is a way to set up profitable Living Ends.
That sounded kind of hostile Wyvern, are you feeling OK? I mean, you're right, I wouldn't recommend symmetric discard in LE ever and there's a lot of hoops to jump through to get her ”online", but I thought the snarky jump down your throat for suggesting something outside the box but when thought through is probably not that great stance was more Johnald's realm than yours.
i'm liking how well positioned the deck is right now. pulled another 5-0 tonight.
I haven't tried Liliana, Heretical Healer in this deck yet, but from what i'm done with her in Human reanimator, she is amazing.
-late game discard becomes relevant in keeping and opponent from recovering board presence.
-she doubles as a second source of reanimate. (lates game or grindy games, she's highly relevant in keeping creature presence reanimated on our side of the table.)
evoke and fulminator mage give us plenty of creatures that can flip her. Plus the face she reanimates with Living end makes her all the more useful.
You're willing to jump through a bunch of hoops with Liliana, Heretical Healer just so you can get a watered-down version of Liliana of the Veil, which is a card we don't play anyways?
And while you're at it, tell me how making both players discard is a way to set up profitable Living Ends.
after playing with Liliana, Heretical Healer, she is an entirely different planeswalker altogether. Flipped she is the extra reanimation effects this deck needs when all of the living ends are spent (or drawn two or more in a row )
- while the top ability for each player to discard a card draws the most comparison to liliana of the veil, keep in mind that this effect goes towards keeping an opponent's hand empty and otherwise shut down people down as they are in top deck mode.
- so to answer your question more directly, the use you get out of her is not to set up profitable living ends at all, it is to maintain field position and keep an opponent hand-less. your making profit for liliana because she is your reanimate ability on a stick.
- 2/3 with life link thats ok. in this sort of deck being vulnerable to lightning bolt is fine as well, she comes back with living end.
i'm liking how well positioned the deck is right now. pulled another 5-0 tonight.
I haven't tried Liliana, Heretical Healer in this deck yet, but from what i'm done with her in Human reanimator, she is amazing.
-late game discard becomes relevant in keeping and opponent from recovering board presence.
-she doubles as a second source of reanimate. (lates game or grindy games, she's highly relevant in keeping creature presence reanimated on our side of the table.)
evoke and fulminator mage give us plenty of creatures that can flip her. Plus the face she reanimates with Living end makes her all the more useful.
You're willing to jump through a bunch of hoops with Liliana, Heretical Healer just so you can get a watered-down version of Liliana of the Veil, which is a card we don't play anyways?
And while you're at it, tell me how making both players discard is a way to set up profitable Living Ends.
after playing with Liliana, Heretical Healer, she is an entirely different planeswalker altogether. Flipped she is the extra reanimation effects this deck needs when all of the living ends are spent (or drawn two or more in a row )
- while the top ability for each player to discard a card draws the most comparison to liliana of the veil, keep in mind that this effect goes towards keeping an opponent's hand empty and otherwise shut down people down as they are in top deck mode.
- so to answer your question more directly, the use you get out of her is not to set up profitable living ends at all, it is to maintain field position and keep an opponent hand-less. your making profit for liliana because she is your reanimate ability on a stick.
- 2/3 with life link thats ok. in this sort of deck being vulnerable to lightning bolt is fine as well, she comes back with living end.
The best thing I can see lili doing is T4 combo with fulminator mage then immediately reanimating fulminator mage and then T5 living end into fulminator + lili to kill 2 more lands. That is assuming no SSGs and your life is at a stable position.
It's honestly a win more as getting 2 lands with fulminator is already pretty devastating tempo play. I would not want to delay my cascade until turn 5 against many decks in this format. I mean going on MTGtop8 and looking at the modern meta, it is chock full of decks that go off turn 4 and some even earlier. Waiting to blow up a land (effectively setting them back a turn) just for the potential for a cute combo is pretty meh.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Re: Splinter Twin. It's a winnable matchup, but I was responding to the notion that it was easy. Unlike most decks, Twin players haven't had to revolutionize their lists. They've simply tweaked them. In my experience, this makes them hard to deal with as they're usually pretty good at piloting them. On the play, they can just tap a land with a Pestermite/Exarch to keep us off three mana. Without a Spirit Guide, we're at the mercy of their draws. And if you Beast Within in response out of desperation, the token turns into Delver Counter beats. The Twin matchup is the only match where it pays to have 4 Spirit Guides, but I feel like running three is still correct since more than one early usually just means I'm fumbling around.
Delver's a tougher matchup than Twin, all things told, but it's by no means easy.
Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
Thx for the share. It really interesting strategic approach. Right now I'm testing +1 SSG -1 Jungle Weaver and +1 Avalance Rider in SB let see what happen
------
Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn
Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierachnot activeJund Tarmolessnot activeDnT White
Living End Jund
Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpostnot activeU/W Titan Controlnot activeMardu Nahiri/Controlnot activeI've got a few questions about how the veterans like to build their decks:
- Why does almost no-one run 4 Simian Spirit Guide? I started at two and quickly moved to 4 after realising all my real plays cost 3 mana and I often need to do something more than cycle turn 2. I have literally found no matchup where I want less than 3 and many matchups, like tron, where having 1 or 2 in my opening hand is pure gold. Why do others not like running the full set?
- What are people's opinions on Twisted Abomination vs Pale Recluse as the landcycler of choice? Initially I preferred the Recluse, but I find my Architects get bolted often enough that the spider being bolt proof is irrelevant. The reach has almost never mattered. Should I shift over to the A-bomb? Doing so lets me take out the godless shrine and discourages me from running the Stony Silence sideboard which I'm not even sure on.
- On the Affinity match-up, how do people find Macabre's work as a solution to the nightmare that is ravager when you go off? I haven't yet successfully pulled off a win by siding into the Stony solution.
- Ricochet Trap has been amazing, am I wasting my time even bothering with Boil when I could just be running a 4th Trap (or the first Dismember)? Boil has almost never performed how I expected, and on the odd occasion I'm paired to Delver or Grixis it's just not doing enough.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
Macabre is generally fine at dealing with ravager. Mostly they only have 1-2 guys you care about and 2 macabre is basically guaranteed to get every creature that might be a threat. That said, the matchup is still not great since they force the turn 3 cascade every time and if they've seen a ravager and you didn't see some kind of hate, you're gonna have a bad time.
On Trap vs Boil, I play only a couple Trap. I feel blue decks are pretty easy most of the time. LD is great against them as a rule and we can generally force through a cascade with just an EOT outburst into a second cascade on our turn. If your meta is just lousy with blue, though, Boil is a very strong effect.
I studied stuff in college. Hard midterms...
Exactly right. You occasionally get the opponent that doubt that this works or that makes you say it to make sure that you know how it works, so it's good to know the mechanics. When you cast the spell you only choose one target: the counterspell. On resolution you choose what the new target of that counterspell is going to be, and Ricochet Trap is a valid choice at that time because it's on the stack in the middle of resolving. As a bonus, if it's Remand that you're doing this to, they don't get to draw a new card off of it because it winds up being countered by the game rules.
3 Richocet Trap IMHO is the right amount. Boil is needed against another blue deck beside Twin because its oneside armageddon. It still good enough to fight against Twin Player
Be warned Living End deck is a tricky deck so dont give up early if u dont perform well. It need practice to pilot this deck
Quick Question.
If opponent control Liliana Heretical Healer and Tarmo and we go cascade, Living End does Liliana flip to Liliana Defiant Necromancer ?
Three posts merged. Remember not to double (or triple) post
-ktkenshinx-
------
Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn
Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierachnot activeJund Tarmolessnot activeDnT White
Living End Jund
Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpostnot activeU/W Titan Controlnot activeMardu Nahiri/Controlnot activeI went out of my way to answer this in the primer. Please look there first in the future.
Liliana has to be on the battlefield to flip. If she dies at the same time as another creature, she doesn't flip.
Living End Contributor and Enthusiast
Come Pucatrade with me
Rules Advisor
Modern: BRGLiving EndGRB
Legacy: UBGShardless BUGGBU
BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB
WURNarset NostalgicRUW
UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU
UBlue BraidsU
GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WBRAleshacratsBRW
UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU
URGYasova the ThreateningGRU
BGGlissa the ArticiferGB
WUSygg MerfolkUW
RSquee, Value NabobR
I don't necessarily disagree with this. I am going to experiment with splashing white for this reason, actually. My comment re: not being overly concerned with being unable to cast a couple cards is really because I see (IMO) too many lists with double splash land that can make a lot of opening hands that should have been fine unkeepable just so they can cast Architects and Recluse with no use of those colors out of the board. I just don't see it being worth it if your entire motivation is casting 4-6 cards that still do something when you can't cast them anyway.
I studied stuff in college. Hard midterms...
I think it depends on the card, too. I would be more inclined to run a Temple Garden to cast Pale Recluse than I would be to run a Watery Grave to cast Architects of Will.
Also, no one seems to mention hard-casting the Guide. This comes up often enough that I'm never super sad to see it in the late game. Sometimes it's just the blocker I need to guarantee I win a race after going off.
I didn't splash blue until recently (preferring the classic Jund manabase), but hardcasting Architects of Will is good because it's the quickest blocker to come down that also cycles which can be relevant against aggressive decks that run out of steam. The devious halimar depths tagged to it just makes it that much more effective. Yea fetches make it irrelevant, but not for us. There's enough decent interaction that pseudo scrying for Beast Within or Fulminator on a man land can be critical to say nothing of smoothing out the sequencing.
Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
I haven't tried Liliana, Heretical Healer in this deck yet, but from what i'm done with her in Human reanimator, she is amazing.
-late game discard becomes relevant in keeping and opponent from recovering board presence.
-she doubles as a second source of reanimate. (lates game or grindy games, she's highly relevant in keeping creature presence reanimated on our side of the table.)
evoke and fulminator mage give us plenty of creatures that can flip her. Plus the face she reanimates with Living end makes her all the more useful.
You're willing to jump through a bunch of hoops with Liliana, Heretical Healer just so you can get a watered-down version of Liliana of the Veil, which is a card we don't play anyways?
And while you're at it, tell me how making both players discard is a way to set up profitable Living Ends.
You know, every time I play living end in a tournament, there is at least 1-2 times that I will always mentally note that I wish I could hardcast my architect. I'm going to have to start toying with adding a watery grave or a steam vents to see the results of that because the ETB is actually really good even though it's a boltable card
That sounded kind of hostile Wyvern, are you feeling OK? I mean, you're right, I wouldn't recommend symmetric discard in LE ever and there's a lot of hoops to jump through to get her ”online", but I thought the snarky jump down your throat for suggesting something outside the box but when thought through is probably not that great stance was more Johnald's realm than yours.
I studied stuff in college. Hard midterms...
after playing with Liliana, Heretical Healer, she is an entirely different planeswalker altogether. Flipped she is the extra reanimation effects this deck needs when all of the living ends are spent (or drawn two or more in a row
- while the top ability for each player to discard a card draws the most comparison to liliana of the veil, keep in mind that this effect goes towards keeping an opponent's hand empty and otherwise shut down people down as they are in top deck mode.
- so to answer your question more directly, the use you get out of her is not to set up profitable living ends at all, it is to maintain field position and keep an opponent hand-less. your making profit for liliana because she is your reanimate ability on a stick.
- 2/3 with life link thats ok. in this sort of deck being vulnerable to lightning bolt is fine as well, she comes back with living end.
The best thing I can see lili doing is T4 combo with fulminator mage then immediately reanimating fulminator mage and then T5 living end into fulminator + lili to kill 2 more lands. That is assuming no SSGs and your life is at a stable position.
It's honestly a win more as getting 2 lands with fulminator is already pretty devastating tempo play. I would not want to delay my cascade until turn 5 against many decks in this format. I mean going on MTGtop8 and looking at the modern meta, it is chock full of decks that go off turn 4 and some even earlier. Waiting to blow up a land (effectively setting them back a turn) just for the potential for a cute combo is pretty meh.