The only true discard outlets that don't require lands seem to be the Faithless Lootings and Conflagrate, and as you noted you have a lot of cards you don't mind discarding anyway, so I'm not sure how much you really need Squee. I'd like Squee more with a Zombie Infestation or two.
I think you'll really miss the 4th Molten Vortex, at least I always have when I tried to go with 3. Also, decks that want to do something else with their mana (like activate Man-Lands) once the engine is going do benefit from having access to Seismic Assault to free up mana from Vortex activations. I've been as big a proponent of Vortex as anyone, but maybe for your list the 4th(maybe 5th?) Vortex should be Assaults?
Lastly, I think Liliana would be pretty insane in the list as it stands. She plays nice with Squee also if you decide to keep him.
If you're so concerned with sideboard hosers, I'd suggest playing midrange or other format. Modern is molded by specific hosers, and metagaming is a huge part of being successful in it - not that I am successful or anything, but we must be aware of this. If being hosed by a single card such as Rest in Peace or Leyline of the Void is too frustrating to you, graveyard strategies are not the place you'd ever want to be. By default, grave-based decks are already "unfair" in that they use resources that are normally unavailable, and the Life from the Loam combined with the numerous engines we run (from Seismic Assault to Ghost Quarter and Raven's Crime, or even Zombie Infestation alongside Bloodghasts and Lingering Souls) provides card advantage that often needs to be addressed.
Of course everyone should be able to play his own deck and have the chance to "do the cool things". Winning or losing should be a mere result of each game's variance, but this is not how Magic works. The best we can do, as grave-based players, is keep those hosers in mind, and outplay them. It's a great chance to develop ourselves as players, and a lot of really entertaining game states happen due to baiting out the hate card and getting rid of it soon after. It also provides us with opportunities to develop our decks beyond "one trick pony" status.
If you can't see the fun in playing an uphill battle against graveyard hosers, this is not the deck to play, IMO. It's a big part of the fun and challenge. There's no thing as a graveyard deck that has no problem dealing with Rest in Peace and Leyline of the Void. What you can do about it is keep that in mind, and surround yourself with the adequate tools to play around these cards. Be creative, unexpected. A deck that relies solely on finding X card, or having Y resources, has a very obvious weak spot. Try something else.
The cool thing about midrange (not necessarily Jund or Abzan) is that you get to minimize sideboard impact. The more linear a deck is, or the more it relies on a specific engine, the more vulnerable you are. That should be obvious enough, but the decision you make when choosing a deck has to keep this in mind. Next time you feel bad about the opponent's Rest in Peace, think of Rule of Law, Stony Silence, Leyline of Sanctity, Abrupt Decay, Combust/Rending Volley, Guttural Response, Annul, Mindbreak Trap, Blood Moon, Ensnaring Bridge, Kor Firewalker, Thrun, the Last Troll, Deflecting Palm, Slaughter Games, Extirpate, Back to Nature...
Figure out how to play through it as Blitkun advocates or there are other approaches. One of the reasons I like the deck I've been playing is I am only really devoting 8 cards to the Vortex/Loam engine and can side out all eight of them to switch to either a straight Tempo deck or a Twin deck depending on how my board is configured.
You can make an Assault Loam deck that revolves entirely around the GY, but you don't have to. If you see enough cards, something a lot of archetypes have interest in, you really don't need a deck full of the combo components to still have it be a powerful engine in your deck.
Figure out how to play through it as Blitkun advocates or there are other approaches. One of the reasons I like the deck I've been playing is I am only really devoting 8 cards to the Vortex/Loam engine and can side out all eight of them to switch to either a straight Tempo deck or a Twin deck depending on how my board is configured.
You can make an Assault Loam deck that revolves entirely around the GY, but you don't have to. If you see enough cards, something a lot of archetypes have interest in, you really don't need a deck full of the combo components to still have it be a powerful engine in your deck.
The Sideboard Twin plan is precisely what I meant with being creative. I'm not a fan of the idea for personal preferences, but it is a really cool way to address the graveyard hate issue. Also, one of the strongest points in the Jund approach is playing closer to Jund Midrange, relying less on the engine. Same could be said about those Temur Delver Assault lists, or even Naya Zoo Assault.
Updated my list a little bit. Went 3-1 at FNM.
Round 1 was Burn easy win he had bad draws.
Round 2 was also Burn, lived with 1 life in game 2 by constantly dredging brownscales.
Round 3 was Jeskei Twin. Barely lost to my friend. Rest in peace + Relic of projenitus was just a little too much to handle.
Round 4 was Bogles, really easy matchup with Smallpox.
I feel like I could use 3 Inquisitions in the main deck. IoK to get information on what they are playing and sculpt my hands with the correct answers for that. Does anyone have suggestions on what to cut?
Also I have a really outdated mana base from before the friendly fetches were printed. Are Graven Cairns still useful or should I just stick with fastlands/shocklands/fetches.
I think you need some kind of proactive gameplan against control and the blockers are useful against midrange and aggro. It is also one of the best cards to cast from your graveyard/pitch to looting. I think you either need lingering souls or bloodghast to apply pressure. Either that or go more creature heavy with goyfs. I ended up cutting an abrupt decay,magmatic insight and a molten vortex for 3 inquisitions. Then I swapped the assaults for zombie infestation to try that out. I haven't played too much yet but I think I will like it.
I suppose so. I never liked the idea of lingering souls. Make our mana base weaker to add that 4th color and we don't get all that much out of it. Ehh. Personal preference I suppose. I just don't like using lingering souls in a deck like this. It is terrible against combo and insight draws you into hate and helps you find cards to beat them. Cutting decay and vortex seems bad against much of the field right now. I personally don't like the idea of infestation, but I think that it does make sense. I was planning to test it for a while just never really got around to it. Seems better than lingering souls to me at least.
Yeah the souls would come out against combo. The deck is so good against delver/creature decks that I decided to cut an abrupt decay, the only thing it kills that I care a lot about is a deceiver exarch. Could be wrong though.
If souls comes out against combo, why not try putting the discard in the side so that you have the even swap, souls for discard. Also I would suggest only 3 souls. I never particularly cared much for 4 copies in most decks that I ran it in.
I played this at my small tourney last thursday (just 13 players), going 3-1. Im still pretty new to modern, so learning how to play against the major matchups is something I am still working on, but the deck seemed pretty solid overall. I need to find a second Spellskite for the SB, and Jace is going to get dropped entirely. I was unable to activate him a single time over 4 rounds (most of which went 3 games). I think I will move Oozes to the main, and add some pyroclasms in their spot in the side
Quick tourney report:
Round 1: Loss 0-2 vs Infect
Mulligan to 5 in game 1, and he just ran me over. Game 2 I kept a solid opener with turn 1 vortex, but never actually drew another land. Kept it pretty close, but couldnt quite stabilize.
Round 2: Won 2-1 vs UW Control
Game 1 I stuck an assault and ground him out with loam. Game 2 I didnt bring any artifact hate in, and lost to a turn 1 relic of progenitus (like I said... new to modern). Game 3 I destroyed another early relic, and had him on a clock with goyf and pyromancer and he conceded during extra turns.
Round 3: Won 2-1 vs Naya Burn
Game 1 I never hit a vortex/loam. stabilized the board at pretty low life but got burned out. Game 2 Ooze gained me a fair amount of life and locked up the board with a Goyf buddy. Game 3 I drew all 3 snapcasters with a pyromancer on the board and tempoed him out with flashbacked bolts and leaks ended the game holding a feed the clan that was never necessary. During the entire match, I never drew into an assault or vortex, which seem like they should be pretty good against all his 1 drop beaters.
Round 4: Won 2-1 vs Amulet/Bloom
Game 1 he had 3x amulet in play on T2 and ran me over with a titan shortly afterwards. Game 2 I ancient grudged the early amulet, but he still resolved a titan. I followed up with blood moon, and ended up trading a goyf+bolt for the titan. looted into another goyf shortly after and closed out the game. Game 3 We both made some misplays, but I was able to kill the early amulet then buy enough time with a countered titan to close the game with pyromancer and snapcaster beatdown.
I played this at my small tourney last thursday (just 13 players), going 3-1. Im still pretty new to modern, so learning how to play against the major matchups is something I am still working on, but the deck seemed pretty solid overall. I need to find a second Spellskite for the SB, and Jace is going to get dropped entirely. I was unable to activate him a single time over 4 rounds (most of which went 3 games). I think I will move Oozes to the main, and add some pyroclasms in their spot in the side
As for command, I would personally say that it is extremely difficult on the mana base. Would require a lot of fetch and shock to make it work, and the triple blue seems like an issue to me. Would probably require 3/4 cascade bluffs to pull off.
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The only true discard outlets that don't require lands seem to be the Faithless Lootings and Conflagrate, and as you noted you have a lot of cards you don't mind discarding anyway, so I'm not sure how much you really need Squee. I'd like Squee more with a Zombie Infestation or two.
I think you'll really miss the 4th Molten Vortex, at least I always have when I tried to go with 3. Also, decks that want to do something else with their mana (like activate Man-Lands) once the engine is going do benefit from having access to Seismic Assault to free up mana from Vortex activations. I've been as big a proponent of Vortex as anyone, but maybe for your list the 4th(maybe 5th?) Vortex should be Assaults?
Lastly, I think Liliana would be pretty insane in the list as it stands. She plays nice with Squee also if you decide to keep him.
That deck I referred to early that was on the SCG coverage had a deck tech done on it for anyone interested.
This new tech could very nicely shore up the Burn MU for us:
http://mythicspoiler.com/bfz/cards/retreattokazandu.jpg
Giving up all of turn 3 to not affect the board at all might be too slow. It is interesting, but I don't know that it is good enough for Modern.
If you're so concerned with sideboard hosers, I'd suggest playing midrange or other format. Modern is molded by specific hosers, and metagaming is a huge part of being successful in it - not that I am successful or anything, but we must be aware of this. If being hosed by a single card such as Rest in Peace or Leyline of the Void is too frustrating to you, graveyard strategies are not the place you'd ever want to be. By default, grave-based decks are already "unfair" in that they use resources that are normally unavailable, and the Life from the Loam combined with the numerous engines we run (from Seismic Assault to Ghost Quarter and Raven's Crime, or even Zombie Infestation alongside Bloodghasts and Lingering Souls) provides card advantage that often needs to be addressed.
Of course everyone should be able to play his own deck and have the chance to "do the cool things". Winning or losing should be a mere result of each game's variance, but this is not how Magic works. The best we can do, as grave-based players, is keep those hosers in mind, and outplay them. It's a great chance to develop ourselves as players, and a lot of really entertaining game states happen due to baiting out the hate card and getting rid of it soon after. It also provides us with opportunities to develop our decks beyond "one trick pony" status.
If you can't see the fun in playing an uphill battle against graveyard hosers, this is not the deck to play, IMO. It's a big part of the fun and challenge. There's no thing as a graveyard deck that has no problem dealing with Rest in Peace and Leyline of the Void. What you can do about it is keep that in mind, and surround yourself with the adequate tools to play around these cards. Be creative, unexpected. A deck that relies solely on finding X card, or having Y resources, has a very obvious weak spot. Try something else.
The cool thing about midrange (not necessarily Jund or Abzan) is that you get to minimize sideboard impact. The more linear a deck is, or the more it relies on a specific engine, the more vulnerable you are. That should be obvious enough, but the decision you make when choosing a deck has to keep this in mind. Next time you feel bad about the opponent's Rest in Peace, think of Rule of Law, Stony Silence, Leyline of Sanctity, Abrupt Decay, Combust/Rending Volley, Guttural Response, Annul, Mindbreak Trap, Blood Moon, Ensnaring Bridge, Kor Firewalker, Thrun, the Last Troll, Deflecting Palm, Slaughter Games, Extirpate, Back to Nature...
Figure out how to play through it as Blitkun advocates or there are other approaches. One of the reasons I like the deck I've been playing is I am only really devoting 8 cards to the Vortex/Loam engine and can side out all eight of them to switch to either a straight Tempo deck or a Twin deck depending on how my board is configured.
You can make an Assault Loam deck that revolves entirely around the GY, but you don't have to. If you see enough cards, something a lot of archetypes have interest in, you really don't need a deck full of the combo components to still have it be a powerful engine in your deck.
The Sideboard Twin plan is precisely what I meant with being creative. I'm not a fan of the idea for personal preferences, but it is a really cool way to address the graveyard hate issue. Also, one of the strongest points in the Jund approach is playing closer to Jund Midrange, relying less on the engine. Same could be said about those Temur Delver Assault lists, or even Naya Zoo Assault.
1 Murderous Cut
4 Faithless Looting
4 Magmatic Insight
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Life from the Loam
1 Darkblast
4 Lingering Souls
4 Smallpox
2 Seismic Assault
3 Liliana of the Veil
27 Land
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Thoughtseize
3 Raven's Crime
2 Golgari Brownscale
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Worm Harvest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Spellskite
Updated my list a little bit. Went 3-1 at FNM.
Round 1 was Burn easy win he had bad draws.
Round 2 was also Burn, lived with 1 life in game 2 by constantly dredging brownscales.
Round 3 was Jeskei Twin. Barely lost to my friend. Rest in peace + Relic of projenitus was just a little too much to handle.
Round 4 was Bogles, really easy matchup with Smallpox.
I feel like I could use 3 Inquisitions in the main deck. IoK to get information on what they are playing and sculpt my hands with the correct answers for that. Does anyone have suggestions on what to cut?
Also I have a really outdated mana base from before the friendly fetches were printed. Are Graven Cairns still useful or should I just stick with fastlands/shocklands/fetches.
Thanks
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Young Pyromancer
3 Jace Vrynn Prodigy
4 Seismic Assault
2 Molten Vortex
3 Deprive
2 Mana Leak
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Life from the Loam
1 Izzet Charm
1 Electrolyze (this is a placeholder for a 2nd izzet charm)
3 Faithless Looting
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Steam Vent
3 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Raging Ravine
1 Sulfur Falls
3 Rending Volley
2 Blood Moon
1 Spellskite
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Feed the Clan
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Shatterstorm
I played this at my small tourney last thursday (just 13 players), going 3-1. Im still pretty new to modern, so learning how to play against the major matchups is something I am still working on, but the deck seemed pretty solid overall. I need to find a second Spellskite for the SB, and Jace is going to get dropped entirely. I was unable to activate him a single time over 4 rounds (most of which went 3 games). I think I will move Oozes to the main, and add some pyroclasms in their spot in the side
Quick tourney report:
Round 1: Loss 0-2 vs Infect
Mulligan to 5 in game 1, and he just ran me over. Game 2 I kept a solid opener with turn 1 vortex, but never actually drew another land. Kept it pretty close, but couldnt quite stabilize.
Round 2: Won 2-1 vs UW Control
Game 1 I stuck an assault and ground him out with loam. Game 2 I didnt bring any artifact hate in, and lost to a turn 1 relic of progenitus (like I said... new to modern). Game 3 I destroyed another early relic, and had him on a clock with goyf and pyromancer and he conceded during extra turns.
Round 3: Won 2-1 vs Naya Burn
Game 1 I never hit a vortex/loam. stabilized the board at pretty low life but got burned out. Game 2 Ooze gained me a fair amount of life and locked up the board with a Goyf buddy. Game 3 I drew all 3 snapcasters with a pyromancer on the board and tempoed him out with flashbacked bolts and leaks ended the game holding a feed the clan that was never necessary. During the entire match, I never drew into an assault or vortex, which seem like they should be pretty good against all his 1 drop beaters.
Round 4: Won 2-1 vs Amulet/Bloom
Game 1 he had 3x amulet in play on T2 and ran me over with a titan shortly afterwards. Game 2 I ancient grudged the early amulet, but he still resolved a titan. I followed up with blood moon, and ended up trading a goyf+bolt for the titan. looted into another goyf shortly after and closed out the game. Game 3 We both made some misplays, but I was able to kill the early amulet then buy enough time with a countered titan to close the game with pyromancer and snapcaster beatdown.
sure are... im the worst at card names.
Did you feel Jace was worth his weight?
As for command, I would personally say that it is extremely difficult on the mana base. Would require a lot of fetch and shock to make it work, and the triple blue seems like an issue to me. Would probably require 3/4 cascade bluffs to pull off.