Have you guys checked out the 150 card scapeshift that put up some results recently?
I threw the deck together just to see what it was all about and man is extremely hilarious and fun to pilot. Consistency was surprisingly on point. I play about 30 matches against some locals (jund, junk, affinity, bant eldrazi, burn) and I'm holding a record of 28 wins 2 losses.
Shall we as a scapeshift community really tune the deck?
I really like the idea of going down to 120 cards as a lot of the time you are shuffling and that takes up a lot of the game time. 120 cards seems a lot more manageable to shuffle. We lose a lot of spice doing it tho.
I have also moved to a larger deck. I find having a good mana base is just better. and the gifts package adds much needed resilience. I don't use the splendid reclamation combo though seems unreliable. I use 135 cards total. The deck is surprisingly just more reliable now with more cards.
So the deck works like normal however you have a better mana base and cards that take advantage of that. You use creatures more for tempo than you do the countrspells. Deck lets you have a much better game against control decks and most aggro decks get blown out by madcap or elesh norn. Also hate is much worse against you as you have many ways to win.
So the deck works like normal however you have a better mana base and cards that take advantage of that. You use creatures more for tempo than you do the countrspells. Deck lets you have a much better game against control decks and most aggro decks get blown out by madcap or elesh norn. Also hate is much worse against you as you have many ways to win.
I actually strongly agree with this list. I have been playtesting the 150 card scapeshift going around and most of the changes I want to make is what you did already. I would make some minor tweaks to the sideboard and some minor tweaks to the mainboard, but I feel it's getting closer to an optimized list.
It is not possible to optimize a 150 card decklist. How can you possibly justify turning down a random additional one-of when you're already playing 146 cards. Oh, 147 is too many?
The list is a funny gimmick, it is not the optimal scapeshift list.
It is not possible to optimize a 150 card decklist. How can you possibly justify turning down a random additional one-of when you're already playing 146 cards. Oh, 147 is too many?
The list is a funny gimmick, it is not the optimal scapeshift list.
Play with the deck, I'm sure you will change your mind on it. I was skeptical at first too, but having all the toolbox features and the solid plan A scapeshift is quite amazing.
An example of this is the Saheeli combo in standard right now. There are 2 main version of it, 4color saheeli(which is basically rug scapeshift) and jeskai saheeli(run of the mill scapeshift). Then an off the wall pro player (ben friedman) smashes the list with random cards that most people will think puts the deck in a poor position because it's not the standard list(normal scapeshift). Then gets 2nd in a grand prix.
All I'm saying is, keep an open mind so we can grow as a scapeshift community. The archetype has endless possibilities and this 100+ card toolbox deck feels more right to play than the standard scapeshift lists after about 40 games of play-testing(which I'm currently sitting at a 36/4 record with various version of the deck).
I will go over some of my card choices and why i have them.
Boseji part of the gifts package vs control. You grab this life from the loam and ghost quarter and probably a noxious revival if you worried by extraction from grixis. If not grab a manland or fetch. Normally this package runs a signle ravens crime to strip their hand however I don't like it main. You could run this package sideboard but I have a lot of control in my meta.
Crumble main. Tron is a much harder match up without this I don't like giving them game one..
Malestrom pulse. Get out of jail card vs hate.
I'm running 3 wrath type effects. Against some decks grabbing supreme verdict wrath anger and revival is pretty soul destroying.
Coiling oracle. This was run in the path build before. In effect you can get double value from this guy and renegade further makes this guy better. Play this guy block somethign next turn bring it back with rengade block then path your own guy. This guy can generate so much value and is better than bringing back a tribe elder when you have the land already.
Sigarda. Mostly the best resilient wincon you can use when your other cards have been extracted. Eats liliana and bigger control decks are unlikely to play a wrath vs you. Turn it sideways and win.
Prismatic omen for when you want to grab 4 ramp cards. can be returned with renegade.
Condescend for gifting for counterspells
only 2 cryptic commands. I have not been liking cryptic as the mana does not always work or hurts you to much and it does not ramp you. I much prefer cards like mana leak as you want to have a 2 mana counterspell when you reach 7 mana so you can win with counter backup. Also against decks like tron the turn 3 karn needs to get countered cryptic is often dead in this situation. I find you lose to much due to cryptic being to hard to cast most of the time. I prefer not running negate as I like countering the odd turn two thought knot seer.
Ojutai's command mostly brings back a 2 drop to ramp and gains life or draws a card. I rarely use this as a counterspell.
Sideboard
Dragonlord is awesome vs control and decks like eldrazi.
Leyline of sanctity is still the best card vs most of your worst match ups so why not play 4.
Platinum angel. For a better madcap target. infect normally folds and it annoys decks like lantern. Though you can end up in a draw as they can mill you out and just put a card from their grave on top of library every turn.
it's almost never better than Unsubstantiate, which is almost never better than Remand. I think you'd actually get more use out of the Comply half to name a counterspell or something and even then you can't cast Comply until you've already cast Failure. The decks you need this for are not going to give you worthwhile targets for failure before you have the chance to go off. Best use IMO is against Ad Naseum to prevent Lotus Petals from coming down or to stop them casting Angel's Grace to cheat a pact trigger, and that's already a terrible matchup.
What do you think of the new Nissa Nissa, Steward of Elements?
I can see myself adding 2 to the RUG list. scry for digging seems pretty good! and Ult may be a alt wincon as well
The white splash it totally necessary for all the death's shadow running around. Purge ends up being the flex that we can sideboard out almost immediately. We need ways to get rid of their creatures permanently. The top of our deck is incredibly live against them. All we have to do is stay alive long enough to play 7 lands and that is usually the game right there. Also, Snapcaster is great in the deck. Being able to snap back a BtL or a path is incredible.
Ideally we would play some sort of graveyard hate, but we need something tutorable with BtL. That new cat from Amonkhet might do the job. All in all, the list is solid. The amount of people who have no idea what's going on until I win is one of the best parts!
The white splash it totally necessary for all the death's shadow running around. Purge ends up being the flex that we can sideboard out almost immediately. We need ways to get rid of their creatures permanently. The top of our deck is incredibly live against them. All we have to do is stay alive long enough to play 7 lands and that is usually the game right there. Also, Snapcaster is great in the deck. Being able to snap back a BtL or a path is incredible.
Ideally we would play some sort of graveyard hate, but we need something tutorable with BtL. That new cat from Amonkhet might do the job. All in all, the list is solid. The amount of people who have no idea what's going on until I win is one of the best parts!
Why Slight of Hand instead of something like Worldly Counsel or Izzet Charm? Charm could also let you dump potentially obsolete cards like Celestial Purge, removal, and the Emperion (should you draw it).
As for graveyard hate, Relic has been good enough recently despite not being able to search for it. At worst it cantrips, but it can also foil Surgical Extractions etc.
The white splash it totally necessary for all the death's shadow running around. Purge ends up being the flex that we can sideboard out almost immediately. We need ways to get rid of their creatures permanently. The top of our deck is incredibly live against them. All we have to do is stay alive long enough to play 7 lands and that is usually the game right there. Also, Snapcaster is great in the deck. Being able to snap back a BtL or a path is incredible.
Ideally we would play some sort of graveyard hate, but we need something tutorable with BtL. That new cat from Amonkhet might do the job. All in all, the list is solid. The amount of people who have no idea what's going on until I win is one of the best parts!
Why Slight of Hand instead of something like Worldly Counsel or Izzet Charm? Charm could also let you dump potentially obsolete cards like Celestial Purge, removal, and the Emperion (should you draw it).
As for graveyard hate, Relic has been good enough recently despite not being able to search for it. At worst it cantrips, but it can also foil Surgical Extractions etc.
The sleight of hands are used because I have black border German P3k ones, lol. I would rather have anticipate over worldly counsel, as I have to put in a non-zero amount of work to get it to be better than anticipate. I like the idea of Surgicals and also of relics! I will have to find some room in the board for it. Pulse is really because my meta is full of burn.
I would rather play anger because of the incidental dredge hate.
Hey Everyone,
Played BTL Scapeshift in a local 50-ish (8 rounds for 50 people is weird I know...) people tournament today, quick report:
List is pretty normal. I played Fatal Pushes instead of Bolts, to have a better Death's Shadow MU.
My opponent usually plays some kind of BGx Midrange, but I guess he changed for this tournament.
G1 he starts with turn 1 Mountain Go. I'm thinking he's playing G/R Valakut, or maybe, but less likely, Burn. I was wrong.
I turn 1 fetch for Breeding Pool, suspend Search for Tomorrow. I then get Turn 2 Blood Mooned, but my forest fetched by SfT will allow me to get other basics. Kodama's Reach is a boon, allowing me to Cryptic bounce my opponent's Blood Moon and kill him many turn after, the only clock from my opponent being a Chandra, Torch of Defiance.
I side in 1 EE, 2 Negates, and maybe a couple baloths, and remove Damnation, 1-2 Fatal Pushes (I saw a spellskite G1 and suspects he's playing Goblin Rabblemaster so I leave 1-2 in the deck) and Worldly Counsel. I thought about bringing some number of Dispels in, but at this point all I was expecting as far as instant goes were Rituals and Magma Jets.
G2 I fetch a couple basics early, I EE his Moon away and he starts pressuring me with a Chandra. He eventually exiles a Boil with his Chandra, but I am very happy to have a Cryptic for it. I proceed to find a Bring to Light and win the game.
Overall the matchup is probably very favorable, as long as we're careful with basics. We have all the time in the world to find answers to Moon and they cannot do that much about it.
My opponent is playing Death's Shadow Jund. G1 I get double inquisitioned, but my opponent cannot do much about my 3 Cryptics and takes 2 of my ramp spells. I draw my 4th land on the third turn, allowing me to Cryptic every turn and eventually win as my opponent has a bunch of removals in hand.
I side out a couple Remands, ramp spells and 1 Cryptic, because of incoming Fulminator Mages. I put in the 2nd EE, 2 Negates and 3 Baloths.
G2 My opponents gets some early pressure with a Tarmogoyf and a Shadow. I'm able to slow him down with Cryptics, then Damnation. I then win with Valakut and mountain #6-8 to his face.
Playing against Ad Nauseam. The matchup looks really bad G1, but I think that the 4 additional counterspells and Slaughter Games make it slightly favorable post board.
My opponent and I both play conservatively for a while (=draw land go for 7 turns, basically) outside of a ramp spell from me and a Phyrexian Unlife on turn 3 for my opponent. Thinking I won't win the long game with just 2 Cryptics, I go for a Scapeshift with 8 lands and a Cryptic backup, and fortunately for me my opponent only has 1 piece of action (Spoils of the Vault/Ad Nauseam/Angel's Grace/Pact of Negation).
I side out removals for counterspells, Slaughter Games and the 2nd EE.
He starts G2 with a white Leyline in play, but he's a bit light on land. A Remand on Lotus Bloom gains me enough time to play explosive, crack it, and then Slaughter Games Ad Nauseams. I then snap Slaughter Games his Angel's Graces because he has 2 in hand, and win with Snapcaster + Sakura Tribe Beatdown as he found another Leyline.
My Opponent is playing Dredge. He only finds his 2nd land on turn 4 on G1, and mulls to 4 G2. Not the most interesting match, but the win locks me for top 8.
My Opponent plays Mono Red Burn. He wins the toss and quickly dispatches me with 2 Goblin Guides, piling massive amount of damages before I play Damnation, but my life total is too low and I end up losing on the following turn.
I side in Madcap+Emperion, 4 counterspells, anger,3 Baloths. Side out EE, snapcaster mages, damnation, 1 Scapeshift, Worldly Counsel, 2 Remands and 2 Cryptics (Maybe I should have sided out 3 remands and only 1 Command, in retrospective).
I win game 2 by turn 4 killing my opponent on the play.
In G3, I draw the following starting hand: 2 Remands, Mountain, Stomping Ground, Search for Tomorrow, Fatal Push, 1 Baloth. Being on the draw, having Madcap+Emperion in the deck, which my opponent doesn't know about, and not having a 3rd land, I choose to mulligan, which might be greedy. I mull into a very similar hand: Remand, Mountain, Steam Vents, Fatal Push, SfT, Bring to Light. No green mana, but with a scry and on the draw, this hand is potentially a turn 4 Platinum Emperion. It may be too slow, but I think it gives me a better shot than a random 5. I keep it, proceed to never draw a land and get turn 4 killed.
ID with Bogles. I might post the top 8 report tomorrow.
Hope my english was decent, and that this report was interesting for some of you
I'd love to get any insight on the decklist or report !
I threw the deck together just to see what it was all about and man is extremely hilarious and fun to pilot. Consistency was surprisingly on point. I play about 30 matches against some locals (jund, junk, affinity, bant eldrazi, burn) and I'm holding a record of 28 wins 2 losses.
Shall we as a scapeshift community really tune the deck?
Here is an article by channel fireball who ran some of the numbers on the deck. Analyzing 150-Card Scapeshift
I really like the idea of going down to 120 cards as a lot of the time you are shuffling and that takes up a lot of the game time. 120 cards seems a lot more manageable to shuffle. We lose a lot of spice doing it tho.
I actually strongly agree with this list. I have been playtesting the 150 card scapeshift going around and most of the changes I want to make is what you did already. I would make some minor tweaks to the sideboard and some minor tweaks to the mainboard, but I feel it's getting closer to an optimized list.
The list is a funny gimmick, it is not the optimal scapeshift list.
Play with the deck, I'm sure you will change your mind on it. I was skeptical at first too, but having all the toolbox features and the solid plan A scapeshift is quite amazing.
An example of this is the Saheeli combo in standard right now. There are 2 main version of it, 4color saheeli(which is basically rug scapeshift) and jeskai saheeli(run of the mill scapeshift). Then an off the wall pro player (ben friedman) smashes the list with random cards that most people will think puts the deck in a poor position because it's not the standard list(normal scapeshift). Then gets 2nd in a grand prix.
All I'm saying is, keep an open mind so we can grow as a scapeshift community. The archetype has endless possibilities and this 100+ card toolbox deck feels more right to play than the standard scapeshift lists after about 40 games of play-testing(which I'm currently sitting at a 36/4 record with various version of the deck).
Boseji part of the gifts package vs control. You grab this life from the loam and ghost quarter and probably a noxious revival if you worried by extraction from grixis. If not grab a manland or fetch. Normally this package runs a signle ravens crime to strip their hand however I don't like it main. You could run this package sideboard but I have a lot of control in my meta.
Crumble main. Tron is a much harder match up without this I don't like giving them game one..
Malestrom pulse. Get out of jail card vs hate.
I'm running 3 wrath type effects. Against some decks grabbing supreme verdict wrath anger and revival is pretty soul destroying.
Coiling oracle. This was run in the path build before. In effect you can get double value from this guy and renegade further makes this guy better. Play this guy block somethign next turn bring it back with rengade block then path your own guy. This guy can generate so much value and is better than bringing back a tribe elder when you have the land already.
Sigarda. Mostly the best resilient wincon you can use when your other cards have been extracted. Eats liliana and bigger control decks are unlikely to play a wrath vs you. Turn it sideways and win.
Prismatic omen for when you want to grab 4 ramp cards. can be returned with renegade.
Condescend for gifting for counterspells
only 2 cryptic commands. I have not been liking cryptic as the mana does not always work or hurts you to much and it does not ramp you. I much prefer cards like mana leak as you want to have a 2 mana counterspell when you reach 7 mana so you can win with counter backup. Also against decks like tron the turn 3 karn needs to get countered cryptic is often dead in this situation. I find you lose to much due to cryptic being to hard to cast most of the time. I prefer not running negate as I like countering the odd turn two thought knot seer.
Ojutai's command mostly brings back a 2 drop to ramp and gains life or draws a card. I rarely use this as a counterspell.
Sideboard
Dragonlord is awesome vs control and decks like eldrazi.
Leyline of sanctity is still the best card vs most of your worst match ups so why not play 4.
Platinum angel. For a better madcap target. infect normally folds and it annoys decks like lantern. Though you can end up in a draw as they can mill you out and just put a card from their grave on top of library every turn.
It can give us the tempo we need and protect the combo when we’re gonna go !
Bad Idea?
Beat:
Jund
Tron
Mill (games were super close)
Abzan
Zoo
Here is my decklist:
http://decks.deckedbuilder.com/d/290046
I can see myself adding 2 to the RUG list. scry for digging seems pretty good! and Ult may be a alt wincon as well
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Snapcaster Mage
Spells (28)
4 Search for Tomorrow
4 Bring to Light
2 Scapeshift
1 Farseek
1 Explore
2 Remand
3 Cryptic Command
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Mana leak
4 Path To Exile
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Celestial Purge
2 Sleight of Hands
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Steam Vents
4 Stomping Ground
1 Breeding Pool
1 Temple Garden
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Cinder Glade
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
3 Island
2 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Flooded Grove
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 MAdcap Experiment
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Pulse of Murasa
1 Slaughter Games
1 Shatterstorm
1 Back to Nature
3 Negate
1 Spellskite
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Crumble to Dust
The white splash it totally necessary for all the death's shadow running around. Purge ends up being the flex that we can sideboard out almost immediately. We need ways to get rid of their creatures permanently. The top of our deck is incredibly live against them. All we have to do is stay alive long enough to play 7 lands and that is usually the game right there. Also, Snapcaster is great in the deck. Being able to snap back a BtL or a path is incredible.
Ideally we would play some sort of graveyard hate, but we need something tutorable with BtL. That new cat from Amonkhet might do the job. All in all, the list is solid. The amount of people who have no idea what's going on until I win is one of the best parts!
Sweltering Suns
1RR
Sorcery (Rare)
Sweltering Suns deals 3 damage to each creature.
Cycling 3
thanks
Why Slight of Hand instead of something like Worldly Counsel or Izzet Charm? Charm could also let you dump potentially obsolete cards like Celestial Purge, removal, and the Emperion (should you draw it).
As for graveyard hate, Relic has been good enough recently despite not being able to search for it. At worst it cantrips, but it can also foil Surgical Extractions etc.
The sleight of hands are used because I have black border German P3k ones, lol. I would rather have anticipate over worldly counsel, as I have to put in a non-zero amount of work to get it to be better than anticipate. I like the idea of Surgicals and also of relics! I will have to find some room in the board for it. Pulse is really because my meta is full of burn.
I would rather play anger because of the incidental dredge hate.
Anyone else playing it at the moment?
Played BTL Scapeshift in a local 50-ish (8 rounds for 50 people is weird I know...) people tournament today, quick report:
List is pretty normal. I played Fatal Pushes instead of Bolts, to have a better Death's Shadow MU.
3 Scapeshift
4 Cryptic Command
1 Damnation
4 Remand
1 Worldly Counsel
3 Fatal Push
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Kodama’s Reach
2 Farseek
4 Sakura-tribe Elder
4 Search for Tomorrow
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Polluted Delta
2 Valakut, the molten Pinnacle
4 Steam Vents
4 Stomping Ground
1 Cinder Glade
1 Breeding Pool
1 Watery Grave
1 Overgrown Tomb
3 Island
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Madcap Experiment
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Slaughter Games
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Negate
2 Dispel
3 Obstinate Baloth
G1 he starts with turn 1 Mountain Go. I'm thinking he's playing G/R Valakut, or maybe, but less likely, Burn. I was wrong.
I turn 1 fetch for Breeding Pool, suspend Search for Tomorrow. I then get Turn 2 Blood Mooned, but my forest fetched by SfT will allow me to get other basics. Kodama's Reach is a boon, allowing me to Cryptic bounce my opponent's Blood Moon and kill him many turn after, the only clock from my opponent being a Chandra, Torch of Defiance.
I side in 1 EE, 2 Negates, and maybe a couple baloths, and remove Damnation, 1-2 Fatal Pushes (I saw a spellskite G1 and suspects he's playing Goblin Rabblemaster so I leave 1-2 in the deck) and Worldly Counsel. I thought about bringing some number of Dispels in, but at this point all I was expecting as far as instant goes were Rituals and Magma Jets.
G2 I fetch a couple basics early, I EE his Moon away and he starts pressuring me with a Chandra. He eventually exiles a Boil with his Chandra, but I am very happy to have a Cryptic for it. I proceed to find a Bring to Light and win the game.
Overall the matchup is probably very favorable, as long as we're careful with basics. We have all the time in the world to find answers to Moon and they cannot do that much about it.
I side out a couple Remands, ramp spells and 1 Cryptic, because of incoming Fulminator Mages. I put in the 2nd EE, 2 Negates and 3 Baloths.
G2 My opponents gets some early pressure with a Tarmogoyf and a Shadow. I'm able to slow him down with Cryptics, then Damnation. I then win with Valakut and mountain #6-8 to his face.
My opponent and I both play conservatively for a while (=draw land go for 7 turns, basically) outside of a ramp spell from me and a Phyrexian Unlife on turn 3 for my opponent. Thinking I won't win the long game with just 2 Cryptics, I go for a Scapeshift with 8 lands and a Cryptic backup, and fortunately for me my opponent only has 1 piece of action (Spoils of the Vault/Ad Nauseam/Angel's Grace/Pact of Negation).
I side out removals for counterspells, Slaughter Games and the 2nd EE.
He starts G2 with a white Leyline in play, but he's a bit light on land. A Remand on Lotus Bloom gains me enough time to play explosive, crack it, and then Slaughter Games Ad Nauseams. I then snap Slaughter Games his Angel's Graces because he has 2 in hand, and win with Snapcaster + Sakura Tribe Beatdown as he found another Leyline.
I side in Madcap+Emperion, 4 counterspells, anger,3 Baloths. Side out EE, snapcaster mages, damnation, 1 Scapeshift, Worldly Counsel, 2 Remands and 2 Cryptics (Maybe I should have sided out 3 remands and only 1 Command, in retrospective).
I win game 2 by turn 4 killing my opponent on the play.
In G3, I draw the following starting hand: 2 Remands, Mountain, Stomping Ground, Search for Tomorrow, Fatal Push, 1 Baloth. Being on the draw, having Madcap+Emperion in the deck, which my opponent doesn't know about, and not having a 3rd land, I choose to mulligan, which might be greedy. I mull into a very similar hand: Remand, Mountain, Steam Vents, Fatal Push, SfT, Bring to Light. No green mana, but with a scry and on the draw, this hand is potentially a turn 4 Platinum Emperion. It may be too slow, but I think it gives me a better shot than a random 5. I keep it, proceed to never draw a land and get turn 4 killed.
I'd love to get any insight on the decklist or report !