With blue decks probably being back, I'm probably going to go back to RUG. In my rudimentary testing it's felt better than BTL in a bluer meta.
I've also been testing Ancestral Visions. I can see the argument for it, but I think 4 would be way too much since it "conflicts" with itself and Search for tomorrow. Playing 2 actually hasn't been so bad - it basically guarantees that you get off a suspend card T1 which means that you'll get pretty nice payoff in the long run + you can pitch them to desolate lighthouse/izzet charm. I'm still not totally convinced its the right card to be playing in the 75 though.
I agree, white is the best splash for BtL. As stated, one of the best ways to beat AV/Thopter is to win before they come online, so I do expect burn/affinity/infect to be a relevant concern for us. Besides, I'm not really concerned enough with other combo decks to play Slaughter Games - there are far more efficient ways to deal with Thopter decks than it (which is a favorable match up to begin with).
Whether BtL or RUG is the right way to go on the other hand, I'm still undecided.
Do you feel burn and infect are relevant enough that you guys are playing your fair share of bolts/paths/terminates? Will it truly improve those awful matchups enough? Is it not better to be more linear and put more ramping/cantrips?
Do you feel burn and infect are relevant enough that you guys are playing your fair share of bolts/paths/terminates? Will it truly improve those awful matchups enough? Is it not better to be more linear and put more ramping/cantrips?
Bolt/Path also help vs Affinity, Zoo, Merfolk, CoCo (+ Burn, Infect). That is a lot of match ups where they are relevant.
Played the BtL version in a modern event today, and it confirmed my concerns with it in the new meta. While it was nice when going top deck mode versus decks like Jund, it was terrible versus blue based decks running AV.
The problem with those match-ups is the inability to sculpt a hand capable of protecting Scapeshift before they overwhelm you with card advantage. I play Teferi, Boseiju, 2 x Dispels, 1 x negate - that is much more counter control tech than most run, but without some way to sift through my library, I couldn't find enough of them before AV started resolving, at which point the game was pretty much done.
What's more, BtL did absolutely nothing in those match ups. There was no "silver bullet" for me to tutor with it. Every time I had it in my hand, I wished it were a cantrip for me to find counter-magic.
Bring to light is better vs all the aggro decks. It is not that much worse against control decks that it matters. Most decks are still aggro decks and control is a very small percentage even if it did get better. I run my own visions now so can match them for card advantage. The thing that gives them an advantage is discard. I am finding leyline of sanctity in the side to be very strong now. I also run two dragonlord dromoka in the side which is great after they side out their removal. In the end ramp + counterspells often beats a deck with no ramp if you avoid their discard.
Bring to light is better vs all the aggro decks. It is not that much worse against control decks that it matters. Most decks are still aggro decks and control is a very small percentage even if it did get better. I run my own visions now so can match them for card advantage. The thing that gives them an advantage is discard. I am finding leyline of sanctity in the side to be very strong now. I also run two dragonlord dromoka in the side which is great after they side out their removal. In the end ramp + counterspells often beats a deck with no ramp if you avoid their discard.
In the Edlrazi meta, that was true, I'm not sure if that still holds in the current meta. With Eldrazi banned, and Jund/Junk struggling, the Bolt-Snapcaster combo is very powerful right now.
As for AV, you might be right in running it in this deck. I think people have dismissed it's relevance in Scapeshift too quickly.
Looks like he made room for AV in the sideboard. Still not sold on it, but with some number of Omens the "draw too many mountains" argument doesn't matter. I wonder if it was for the attrition type decks (Looks good against Grixis?).
Looks like he made room for AV in the sideboard. Still not sold on it, but with some number of Omens the "draw too many mountains" argument doesn't matter. I wonder if it was for the attrition type decks (Looks good against Grixis?).
His deck is strange. It looks like it's trying to play primarily a combo game. Lots of ramp and go straight for the combo with 4 Valakut, 4 Prismatic Omen. It's still impossible to get the combo off before turn 4 as far as I can calculate, so it's not terribly fast. I suppose that's what the limited disruption suite is there for: to last until turn 4 or 5.
I'm not sure if it's a great strategy. If people know what's going on there are ways to fight it, but it is a very hard combo to stop since it's a single sorcery and lands.
Looks like he made room for AV in the sideboard. Still not sold on it, but with some number of Omens the "draw too many mountains" argument doesn't matter. I wonder if it was for the attrition type decks (Looks good against Grixis?).
His deck is strange. It looks like it's trying to play primarily a combo game. Lots of ramp and go straight for the combo with 4 Valakut, 4 Prismatic Omen. It's still impossible to get the combo off before turn 4 as far as I can calculate, so it's not terribly fast. I suppose that's what the limited disruption suite is there for: to last until turn 4 or 5.
I'm not sure if it's a great strategy. If people know what's going on there are ways to fight it, but it is a very hard combo to stop since it's a single sorcery and lands.
His deck does look strange, but I get why it does. Most people are ready to counter/discard out Scapeshift, but you cannot really respond to lands. He can easily just make land drops dealing 3-12 damage per land drop wiht Prismatic Omen. It's a more grindy, I will get there eventually, version. It's good against a meta filled with control. I can see what he is angling for, and I respect the idea, but it seems sketchy. Who knows? I am going to try and test it out either way. Seems fun to me.
Ah, that makes sense about the non-sorcery side. I have all sorcery/instant effects in my board with the exception of Baloths right now, so it always works well for me. I never really thought about needing an alternate.
I'm glad Anticipate works though. I've always felt a little underwhelmed by it and found I wanted Peer mostly so I can dig for Scapeshift. There's nothing more frustrating than digging through half your deck and still not finding the win.
I've been looking for a new modern deck to build and scapeshift has got my attention. I've played a few games online and I find that I often am cutting it really close on the amount of mountains I have left in my deck and was actually unable to win one game because there were only 5 left in there.
So I was thinking of adding another mountain going up to 61 cards. Is that dumb? I'm running 25 lands where 10 are mountain and 2 valakut at the moment, a RUG version with Cryptic. I don't wanna cut a card for another land going up to 26/60 and I don't wanna screw up my mana by replacing another land with a mountain. One should always strive to play 60 cards, but in this instance I feel like it's more justified than in cases where you just want to add another sweet card to your list.
Need advice.
No, that doesn't sounds dumb. However I think one of the 25 lands you currently play could be switched to another mountain. If you're running 4 fetchlands, three is fine to cut down too. I think you'd essentially have 2 basic mountains and a cinder glade.
As far as the Cascade Bluffs, I think you might have a point there. Maybe it should be a fetch, but I'm not sure. I've had situation where I had Stomping Ground, Forest, Island and Bluffs. Here I could cast my CC, I did not record the number of times where I wish it was a Misty, I will try to do so from now on. Thanks for the question.
I've been running two Flooded Grove and I generally like it. It's very rare for it to be dead since I'm only running 3 mono-R sources currently. I'm on a single Mountain now that I expect Ghost Quarter to be less common with Eldrazi and Tron not being a large force.
Thinking about it, the only double-G spells I run are Obstinate Baloth and Scapeshift. There are some cases where I want to cast two green spells in a single turn, but it's not too common. Maybe one should be a Cascade Bluffs.
Howdy, I currently have Burn and Jund sleeved up, but I want to add a combo deck to my roster. I used to have a Scapeshift deck a couple of years ago and I am thinking about reconstructing it. I pretty much have all the cards needed to build the version that won the Dutch Open. However, I am intrigued by Daryl Ayers' version with Prismatic Omen. Which version do you think will have more success in the current meta? I am pretty torn. On the one hand, I don't want to go out and spend $60 on 4x Prismatic Omen and never use them. On the other hand, if Prismatic Omen is the way to go, I don't want to miss out and see the price skyrocket. Your thoughts?
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Now Playing Modern RUBW Affinity BGR Midrange UWR Control RG Titan Shift RW Burn GW Bogles G Tron
Howdy, I currently have Burn and Jund sleeved up, but I want to add a combo deck to my roster. I used to have a Scapeshift deck a couple of years ago and I am thinking about reconstructing it. I pretty much have all the cards needed to build the version that won the Dutch Open. However, I am intrigued by Daryl Ayers' version with Prismatic Omen. Which version do you think will have more success in the current meta? I am pretty torn. On the one hand, I don't want to go out and spend $60 on 4x Prismatic Omen and never use them. On the other hand, if Prismatic Omen is the way to go, I don't want to miss out and see the price skyrocket. Your thoughts?
Well, I played the Daryl Ayer's version last FNM to a 4-1 finish losing only to U/B Faeries. It is a fine build, but it takes awhile to get use to and it has a slow burn element which makes it quite nice. The only issue I had was getting out of the mentality of playing combo control. The Daryl Ayers version is just combo. There are no control elements and while it can be explosive, it felt really lackluster against decks with discard and counterspells. Mind you, it was my first time playing it and I felt like I played it completely wrong at times. So, I would say proxy it up and see how you feel.
I'm currently on the BTL w/Black version and I love it. Getting the correct mana at the correct time is the hardest part about the BTL version and you have to plan through your turns more carefully. I really do enjoy this version right now and I have a lot of fun with the black splash. Really, it's about choosing what is right for you and going for the combo in what way you feel is best. There is also a Primetime version that did well at the SCG Invi you might want to check out. I'll post the link up:
I've also been testing Ancestral Visions. I can see the argument for it, but I think 4 would be way too much since it "conflicts" with itself and Search for tomorrow. Playing 2 actually hasn't been so bad - it basically guarantees that you get off a suspend card T1 which means that you'll get pretty nice payoff in the long run + you can pitch them to desolate lighthouse/izzet charm. I'm still not totally convinced its the right card to be playing in the 75 though.
Whether BtL or RUG is the right way to go on the other hand, I'm still undecided.
Bolt/Path also help vs Affinity, Zoo, Merfolk, CoCo (+ Burn, Infect). That is a lot of match ups where they are relevant.
The problem with those match-ups is the inability to sculpt a hand capable of protecting Scapeshift before they overwhelm you with card advantage. I play Teferi, Boseiju, 2 x Dispels, 1 x negate - that is much more counter control tech than most run, but without some way to sift through my library, I couldn't find enough of them before AV started resolving, at which point the game was pretty much done.
What's more, BtL did absolutely nothing in those match ups. There was no "silver bullet" for me to tutor with it. Every time I had it in my hand, I wished it were a cantrip for me to find counter-magic.
In the Edlrazi meta, that was true, I'm not sure if that still holds in the current meta. With Eldrazi banned, and Jund/Junk struggling, the Bolt-Snapcaster combo is very powerful right now.
As for AV, you might be right in running it in this deck. I think people have dismissed it's relevance in Scapeshift too quickly.
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/394421#online
Looks like he made room for AV in the sideboard. Still not sold on it, but with some number of Omens the "draw too many mountains" argument doesn't matter. I wonder if it was for the attrition type decks (Looks good against Grixis?).
Fetch-Shock-Blog
Moderator of /r/Scapeshift
Looks like he won the =28&start_date=2016-04-09&end_date=2016-04-10&city=&order_1=finish&limit=32&t_num=1&action=Show+Decks]Star City Games Classic. No idea how many people where there. There was also a RUGw BtL list at 7th. I had a hunch that Scapeshift would be good in this meta.
His deck is strange. It looks like it's trying to play primarily a combo game. Lots of ramp and go straight for the combo with 4 Valakut, 4 Prismatic Omen. It's still impossible to get the combo off before turn 4 as far as I can calculate, so it's not terribly fast. I suppose that's what the limited disruption suite is there for: to last until turn 4 or 5.
I'm not sure if it's a great strategy. If people know what's going on there are ways to fight it, but it is a very hard combo to stop since it's a single sorcery and lands.
Two questions about your list:
Why the Cascade Bluffs? Is it really necessary? The only double-red spells I see are Anger of the Gods and Shatterstorm and I've had no real trouble ramping those.
Anticipate over Peer Through Depths: Is the selection worth seeing only 3 cards? I've been preferring Peer Through Depths lately.
Fetch-Shock-Blog
Moderator of /r/Scapeshift
His deck does look strange, but I get why it does. Most people are ready to counter/discard out Scapeshift, but you cannot really respond to lands. He can easily just make land drops dealing 3-12 damage per land drop wiht Prismatic Omen. It's a more grindy, I will get there eventually, version. It's good against a meta filled with control. I can see what he is angling for, and I respect the idea, but it seems sketchy. Who knows? I am going to try and test it out either way. Seems fun to me.
I'm glad Anticipate works though. I've always felt a little underwhelmed by it and found I wanted Peer mostly so I can dig for Scapeshift. There's nothing more frustrating than digging through half your deck and still not finding the win.
No, that doesn't sounds dumb. However I think one of the 25 lands you currently play could be switched to another mountain. If you're running 4 fetchlands, three is fine to cut down too. I think you'd essentially have 2 basic mountains and a cinder glade.
Fetch-Shock-Blog
Moderator of /r/Scapeshift
1. Rene van Hoorn | Scapeshift
Mainboard:
4x Steam Vents
4x Stomping Ground
3x Forest
3x Island
2x Mountain
2x Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
2x Misty Rainforest
1x Cascade Bluffs
1x Flooded Grove
1x Temple of Mystery
1x Breeding Pool
4x Search for Tomorrow
4x Sakura-Tribe Elder
4x Scapeshift
4x Remand
4x Lighting Bolt
4x Cryptic Command
4x Anticipate
2x Izzet Charm
2x Electrolyze
2x Anger of the Gods
2x Snapcaster Mage
Sideboard:
2x Obstinate Baloth
2x Vendilion Clique
2x Ancient Grudge
1x Shatterstorm
1x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Spellskite
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Pithing Needle
1x Primal Command
1x Inferno Titan
1x Keranos, God of Storms
1x Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
4. Joey Wittebol | Bring to Scapeshift
Mainboard:
4 Remand
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Search for Tomorrow
4 Bring to Light
3 Scapeshift
3 Cryptic Command
2 Izzet Cham
2 Quicken
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Repeal
1 Farseek
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Damnation
1 Electrolyze
1 Hunting Wilds
4 Stomping Ground
4 Steam Vents
3 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Forest
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
2 Breeding Pool
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Blood Crypt
1 Watery Grave
1 Flooded Grove
Sideboard:
3 Obstinate Baloth
2 Spellskite
2 Pithing Needle
1 Back to Nature
1 Slaughter Games
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Thragtusk
1 Counterflux
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Dispel
That's the second open in a row for us. I think we can say that we are well positioned.
Also, RUG beats BtL again.
Congrats on your win.
I've been running two Flooded Grove and I generally like it. It's very rare for it to be dead since I'm only running 3 mono-R sources currently. I'm on a single Mountain now that I expect Ghost Quarter to be less common with Eldrazi and Tron not being a large force.
Thinking about it, the only double-G spells I run are Obstinate Baloth and Scapeshift. There are some cases where I want to cast two green spells in a single turn, but it's not too common. Maybe one should be a Cascade Bluffs.
Modern
RUBW Affinity
BGR Midrange
UWR Control
RG Titan Shift
RW Burn
GW Bogles
G Tron
Well, I played the Daryl Ayer's version last FNM to a 4-1 finish losing only to U/B Faeries. It is a fine build, but it takes awhile to get use to and it has a slow burn element which makes it quite nice. The only issue I had was getting out of the mentality of playing combo control. The Daryl Ayers version is just combo. There are no control elements and while it can be explosive, it felt really lackluster against decks with discard and counterspells. Mind you, it was my first time playing it and I felt like I played it completely wrong at times. So, I would say proxy it up and see how you feel.
I'm currently on the BTL w/Black version and I love it. Getting the correct mana at the correct time is the hardest part about the BTL version and you have to plan through your turns more carefully. I really do enjoy this version right now and I have a lot of fun with the black splash. Really, it's about choosing what is right for you and going for the combo in what way you feel is best. There is also a Primetime version that did well at the SCG Invi you might want to check out. I'll post the link up:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=101048