Izzet charm is rarely a dead draw and a lot of the BtL lists want to run it as they seem to cut down on bolts (there's a lot of aggro in my local meta so I still run 3). Izzet can take care of early threats, counter important spells, or just dig when you are ready to win.
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Modern: UWR Breach, UWB Esper control
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
If you draw it on a empty hand you are never able to: draw two discard two. It is always card disadvantage. Discard 3, including the charm, draw two. I rather play some digging spells. Does anyone have a list with a mb wrath or suprême?
I play RUG Scapeshift for 3 or 4+ years with great success at the now dead PTQ level, GP level, and so on.
I tried the BTL version and i can only say, it dosen't improve any matchups the RUG version had trouble with.
Altrough the meta changed from time to time, Scapeshift was always a good option to bring to a long tournament, because against a large chunk of the meta it had:
1- Good game against JUND/BGx decks, Control decks (Grixis control was more difficult then Jeskai), Tron
2- Slightly favored against Twin, Delver and alike;
3- Unfavored g1 against Affinity but still winnable if they didn't had god hand; Winnable g2, g3 is 50/50
Thing is, the banning of Twin changes things.
I played in mtgo straight for 3 or 4 days (like 40 or 50 matches), and all i play against is:
1- MonoB Eldrazi - We are very unfavorable, i played against it 9 times = 2-7; (Maybe i got unlucky, but i don't think so)
2- Burn - We are unfavorable G1, and G3 we are on the draw and most times we loose (they have 6 or 7 cant gain life spells);
3- Grishoalbrand - We are very unfavorable;
4- Affinity - Same has it always have been; but now we get to play against it 2x more than before;
5- Hatebears - We are unfavorable G1; Post board it becomes alot better but still...
Thing is... the good matchups or slightly favored matchups beside Tron, are all gone or are now a minority of the meta.
I sincerely hope it changes, both in real life and in MTGO after ProTour, but the meta just seems pretty unbalance, and hostile for Scapeshift.
(Note: And i play electrolyze, bolt, izzet charm MD)
I tend to agree with this. Although I switched over to BtL, I have played Scapeshift for awhile now and feel like all our tough matchups will be a much higher percentage of the metagame now. I'm still trying to find ways/cards to help improve some these matchups, but I'm also keeping the possibility of looking for a new deck in the back of my mind. Definitely not what I want to do, but sometimes you just have to admit that you're fighting an uphill battle. Also, does anyone ever dabble with Prismatic Omen anymore? Might be worth considering in an effort to start trying to combo faster
My list after tweaking
[deck]
4 Sakura tribe elder
1 snapcaster Mage
4 remand
4 search for tomorrow
1 farseek
1 hunting wilds
3 lightning bolt
2 Izzet charm
3 cryptic command
4 bring to light
3 scapeshift
3 worldly council
1 timely reinforcements
1 supreme verdict
4 misty rainforest
4 stomping grounds
4 steam vents
2 valakut
1 temple garden
1 watery grave
1 hallowed fountain
1 breeding pool
2 forest
2 island
2 mountain
1 plains
Sideboard
4 leyline of sanctity
3 dispel
2 obstinate baloth
1 ancient grudge
1 krosan grip
1 fracturing gust
1 crumble to dust
1 Slaughter games
1 surrak dragonclaw
[\deck]
Timely and main deck wrath are huge in beating Aggro. Fracturing gust helps immensely in the affinity matchup, and the extra baloths are for burn. Still need to work sideboard a little better. Leyline helps the eldrAzi matchup
Sorry on cellphone and I guess I got the wrong html tags. Bring to light offers you the silver bullet aspect that rug can't. You can only dig so deep with RUG, but you always fetch what you need with BTL.
In the wake of losing the biggest blue deck and considering we will see less counter magic in the format now, the RG Titan list from GP Pittsburgh might be something to look at. It is much faster and combo oriented. http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/344927#paper
With what we assume will be a rise in fast linear decks (Affinity, Infect, Burn, Zoo) and the Bx Eldrazi decks, is it unreasonable to consider shaving on Remands?
R/g isn't bad, don't think relic is necessary main. Rather add another primal and 3 bolt for the Aggro matchups
Have you ever played this deck? Relic is used mainly as a cantrip, which this deck sorely needs, which is why it also has Explores. I tried Magma Jet, for the point you stated with bolt, but scry is far less effective than drawing here. I am testing the additional Primal Command this Friday, but 4 Relics main is very essential. I play in a shop with 2-3 Burn/ RDW players that always show up, with the constant Zoo and Affinity during large tourneys, and I still wouldn't replace relic MD. You just have to combo faster. Bolt doesn't buy you enough time G2, so Anger is still what you need.
If you draw it on a empty hand you are never able to: draw two discard two. It is always card disadvantage. Discard 3, including the charm, draw two. I rather play some digging spells. Does anyone have a list with a mb wrath or suprême?
I said rarely a dead draw. And yes it is absolutely card disadvantage, but if you use the draw discard mode, you are clearly just digging for the combo/win so you don't need to be overly concerned with that.
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Modern: UWR Breach, UWB Esper control
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
Just wanted to say that a one of Mwonvuli Acid-Moss in the mainboard has been insane for me in testing in a BtL build. It takes the place of Hunting Wilds. I've really liked being able to knock my opponent down to 2 or 3 lands and catapult myself to 5 or 6 not to mention how much time it can buy against the Eldrazi and Tron decks while having the utility to destroy problematic lands. The card is insane although it is something that gets sided out against the more aggressive decks (Burn, Zoo, etc.)
I have to agree on BTL being to slow, it was before against the decks we needed most speed, and is worse now that those decks are played even more.
Turn 4 bring to light against affinity, is just too slow. You are also taking even more damage from lands that RUG, so surviving to cast that BTL shatterstorm (that sometimes isn't enough if you are playing against a good Affinity player), is not possible.
Turn 4 bring to light against eldrazi = too slow;
Turn 4 BTL against Grishoalbrand = too slow;
Turn 4 BTL against Tron = Usually too slow;
Turn 4 BTL against Burn = too slow;
Turn 4 BTL against Infect = u are more then poisoned;
Turn 4 BTL against... = what is it that good against? Jund?
Not to mention:
The hands where u are clogged with BTL and no ramp spells
The loss in consistency, having +3 or +4 cards that cost >= 4
Added damage by being 4 colors
Trust me, i've been there, tried it, and over the course of a long tournament BTL brings nothing, that typical RUG with cryptics dosen't solve faster and better, in a faster enviroment.
But if people want to insist in BTL i'm fine with that. By my testing, i just don't think it's the card that makes a positive difference and that it will "bring light" to the archetype in the new meta.
Remember that we are at our core a control deck, with a combo finish. Control is very hard to play in such a diverse meta and where most of the meta, for the time being, is full of fast decks that win from many different angles.
Just my 2 cents.
EDIT: For the RG version, i just feel you are a combo deck that is a 1 or 2 turn too late then the rest of the format, without any form of disruption whatsoever.
Bring to light is added versatility, usually acting is scape shifts 4,5, & 7 as well as running 2-3 main deck silver bullets. The extra snapcaster, Izzet charms, and electrolyze I cut never performed as well as bring to light. In no way does the deck get Slower, it gets more consistent. Play game with maindeck supreme verdict or timely reinforcements, and you will never miss electrolyze again
In the current hostile environment i'm probably going to replace Cryptic Command with something faster, it could possibly be Voidslime since it can stop triggered abilities. Its also possible i want to go of a more control than ramp version of scapeshift ( sort of like the UWR Scapeshift list by Jeff Hoogland) with Mana leak and spell pierce/Spell Snare. A card that might see a few copies cut is Remand. Its terrible against all those triggered abilites of the Eldrazi.
Are these fast aggro changes, that are being proposed, a result of theory crafting or play testing? Because i've been jamming the BtL version online for the last week and it seems perfectly fine. I've beat a handful of Tron, Burn, Merfolk, and Abzan CoCo without much trouble. I lost to Hatebears the other night, but that was due to not being able to search my deck, not the small creature clock. The deck can run like a clinic sometimes when you fog with a few Tribe Elders, bolt a thing or two, then combo off.
I'm not sure what the problem is. Obviously a deck with 4 Cryptics and some number or BtL's/Scapes can draw the wrong half of the deck from time to time, but for the most part it is consistent to curve out and start Crypticing by turn 3, which is powerful. Of course the deck is slow if you do absolutely nothing until turn 4, but it isnt built to do that, and if you kept a hand that doesnt do anything until turn 4 then you deserve to lose with any deck.
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Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
[deck]
4 Sakura tribe elder
1 snapcaster Mage
4 remand
4 search for tomorrow
1 farseek
1 hunting wilds
3 lightning bolt
2 Izzet charm
3 cryptic command
4 bring to light
3 scapeshift
3 worldly council
1 timely reinforcements
1 supreme verdict
4 misty rainforest
4 stomping grounds
4 steam vents
2 valakut
1 temple garden
1 watery grave
1 hallowed fountain
1 breeding pool
2 forest
2 island
2 mountain
1 plains
Sideboard
4 leyline of sanctity
3 dispel
2 obstinate baloth
1 ancient grudge
1 krosan grip
1 fracturing gust
1 crumble to dust
1 Slaughter games
1 surrak dragonclaw
[\deck]
Timely and main deck wrath are huge in beating Aggro. Fracturing gust helps immensely in the affinity matchup, and the extra baloths are for burn. Still need to work sideboard a little better. Leyline helps the eldrAzi matchup
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/344927#paper
Thanks to Spiderboy4 at High~Light Studios for the sig.
Have you ever played this deck? Relic is used mainly as a cantrip, which this deck sorely needs, which is why it also has Explores. I tried Magma Jet, for the point you stated with bolt, but scry is far less effective than drawing here. I am testing the additional Primal Command this Friday, but 4 Relics main is very essential. I play in a shop with 2-3 Burn/ RDW players that always show up, with the constant Zoo and Affinity during large tourneys, and I still wouldn't replace relic MD. You just have to combo faster. Bolt doesn't buy you enough time G2, so Anger is still what you need.
I said rarely a dead draw. And yes it is absolutely card disadvantage, but if you use the draw discard mode, you are clearly just digging for the combo/win so you don't need to be overly concerned with that.
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
Bring to Light Scapeshift RUGB
Bring to light is added versatility, usually acting is scape shifts 4,5, & 7 as well as running 2-3 main deck silver bullets. The extra snapcaster, Izzet charms, and electrolyze I cut never performed as well as bring to light. In no way does the deck get Slower, it gets more consistent. Play game with maindeck supreme verdict or timely reinforcements, and you will never miss electrolyze again
I'm actually testing it and works quite well. I'm really liking it. I have this week end a tourney, I'll post a report if I can
Any thoughts?
I'm not sure what the problem is. Obviously a deck with 4 Cryptics and some number or BtL's/Scapes can draw the wrong half of the deck from time to time, but for the most part it is consistent to curve out and start Crypticing by turn 3, which is powerful. Of course the deck is slow if you do absolutely nothing until turn 4, but it isnt built to do that, and if you kept a hand that doesnt do anything until turn 4 then you deserve to lose with any deck.