I cannot see Scapeshift ever staying a tier 1 deck as long as Slaughter Games exists
You prepare for the SG with your sideboard. Either Leyline of Sanctity or you go more aggressive in the SB plan. 4x Leyline in the side (if you are splashing white for the BTL version) will do the trick. Yes Karn or whatever can exile it, but we have Remands and Negates to keep Karn from seeing the light of day.
Don't forget that we have our own "slaughter games" in Crumble to Dust, and the ability to tutor for it with BtL. If they use slaughter games to remove Scapeshift, you simply reply with ripping out their tron lands, then play a tempo game with Snap(+bolt)/Baloth/Alternate Wincon. Good luck getting to 10 mana to cast newlamog.
Now it looks like there's endless tron and eldrazi decks to prey on.
So lately I was trying some Twin variants, now I guess I can try Scapeshift again ...I think it might be tier 1 again, but I kind of fear the eldrazi deck. How is that matchup guys? I can't really imagine we would prey on a deck with a bilion of discard and "when you cast" effects that can't be countered
I honestly think that playing Think Twice in the main is the first step, because there are so many discard spells and Lilis going around. Mainboard Anger/Firespout or Electrolyze deals with Blight Herder (somewhat), but as for OSower, I guess we just ignore the ability and counter the creature half.
My thoughts are to run Mana Leak, counter the giant bodies, and pick off whatever's left over.
I think our biggest problems against the Eldrazi deck are Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger and Oblivion Sower. Game One you just have to hope they don't have it/ hope they don't hit your lands as it feels like you can ignore everything else that they do. For sideboard games, I've found that Leyline of Sanctity does a really good job at crippling them as their creatures are slow enough that they don't pose much of a threat. Black has less options but I always bring in slaughter games and typically name Oblivion Sower and that usually buys me enough time to find Scapeshift for the win.
I may be crazy but I'm testing 1-2 Voidslimes maindeck. At worst it's a Cancel but I really like the clutchness of being able to counter Oblivion Sower and Ulamog's triggers. Additionally, being able to counter Ghost Quarters and Tectonic Edges will be nice as we will probably be seeing an uptick in land destruction effects.
I have been wanting to try Voidslime! Leyline has been pretty great for me, let me know how the Voidslimes work out!
I'm looking to transfer over from Twin to Scapeshift. I really like the more traditional RUG lists, but can't seem to find one that's updated post DTT ban. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks!
Coming here from Twin as well. Wondering about the virtues of the black or white splash and Bring to Light.
Seems like the best decks are going to be Tron, Affinity, Burn, and maybe Grishoalbrand? White has Stony Silence, Timely Reinforcements, and Rest in Peace to hose those decks. Of course there's pretty good SB cards in RUG against those decks, but I'm just having a hard time seeing what black offers aside from Slaughter Games, which may not be so relevant now.
Generally speaking, the standard RUG version differs from the BtL version by:
1) 2-3 Snapcaster Mage as opposed to 1
2) ~4 cantrips (the preferred one being Anticipate)
3) Lightning Bolt due to not being able to fetch main-board sweepers and for synergy with more Snapcaster
4) Does not run additional ramp (no Farseek)
5) 25 lands, as opposed to the 26 preferred by BtL lists
Coming here from Twin as well. Wondering about the virtues of the black or white splash and Bring to Light.
Seems like the best decks are going to be Tron, Affinity, Burn, and maybe Grishoalbrand? White has Stony Silence, Timely Reinforcements, and Rest in Peace to hose those decks. Of course there's pretty good SB cards in RUG against those decks, but I'm just having a hard time seeing what black offers aside from Slaughter Games, which may not be so relevant now.
I would happily splash black with BTL for Slaughter Games, if even only just to hit Karn or Ulamog in Tron.
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Modern GU Infect | x Affinity | RWG Naya Burn | W Death and Taxes | U Merfolk | BURG BTL Scapeshift | WUUW Titan | R Goblins | BURGW Suicide Zoo
I have been playing the 4C BtL version and really like it's consistency. I kinda wish it played a better early control game, but it really can't play the same control game as the as the basic Temur Scapeshift deck does.
Hello everyone. New here. I see no RG scapeshif tread so I think I have to post here. I'm brewing some list that I'll post later. I look to share and learn from this deck some time arround.
I wanna share a FNM report of mine.
I'm using Jeff's RUG/b BTL list with a twist of adding "mom and dad" in my SB.
I went 4-0 (2:1, 2:0, 2:1, 2:0) against Jund, B/U discard, UW control, UR twin.
1st round, Jund (2:1)
1st game drew no answer and die to Liliana's ultimate.
2nd game I ramp up to 8 lands and at lethal turn cryptic commend bounce draw in BTL and scapeshift combo out.
3rd game used board in Baloth to tempo out and then later scapeshift combo win.
2nd round, B/U discard (2:0)
weird deck. first game i had no idea what he is playing at the beginning but his discard spell kinda limited himself too....so I get to play 7 lands and combo win.
2nd game I got surgical extraction my scapeshift. But since I have boarded in 4 Baloth, I just pressured him with creatures and won.
3rd round, U/W control (2:1)
1st game he was mana screwed so I tempo and ramped kinda smoothly. scapeshift at 8 lands.
2nd game back and forth counter battles. Lost to double restoration angels and a geist.
3rd game long ass game. SB in lots of creatures to stable and pressure the board. Won a snapcaster flashback counter battle and drew 2 scapeshifts for backup combo.
4th round, UR twin (2:0)
1st game is all about ramp and BTL combo timing. I enjoy some of the tempo play in respond to his fetches and got to kill some of his creatures with izzet charms.
2nd game I SB in 3 Baloth and a "mom and dad" (my opponents laughed hard when I call the card mom and dad XD). with using creatures pressuring him, I cot to waste some of his counters and won a counter battle of he casting twin. Got to combo out at the next turn
To sum up, I like this list A LOT! I also enjoy boarding in creatures in control matchups (and SB out most of the BTL). Response to fetches is a good tempo play since he will be lack of one land.
What is your list?
I find myself in a doubt between btl and rug scapeshift. Btl seems to clunky with alot of cmc4/5 in the md. Like some say it's control game is less then the Rug version. But what is what we need now?!
Hello everyone. New here. I see no RG scapeshif tread so I think I have to post here. I'm brewing some list that I'll post later. I look to share and learn from this deck some time arround.
It's weird that there isn't one, because if it is the deck I am thinking of it is very different. It is way more aggressive than Temur Scapeshift generally is, and it's strategy ramps faster. It also had some coverage and did decently at an event recently (SCG or GP).
I have no say about this thread, so perhaps this is the place to discuss it and I am totally wrong.
EDIT:
Is THIS the deck you are talking about? That is what I assumed (and why I said it was so different), but perhaps you are talking about another RG Scapeshift deck.
I wanna share a FNM report of mine.
I'm using Jeff's RUG/b BTL list with a twist of adding "mom and dad" in my SB.
I went 4-0 (2:1, 2:0, 2:1, 2:0) against Jund, B/U discard, UW control, UR twin.
1st round, Jund (2:1)
1st game drew no answer and die to Liliana's ultimate.
2nd game I ramp up to 8 lands and at lethal turn cryptic commend bounce draw in BTL and scapeshift combo out.
3rd game used board in Baloth to tempo out and then later scapeshift combo win.
2nd round, B/U discard (2:0)
weird deck. first game i had no idea what he is playing at the beginning but his discard spell kinda limited himself too....so I get to play 7 lands and combo win.
2nd game I got surgical extraction my scapeshift. But since I have boarded in 4 Baloth, I just pressured him with creatures and won.
3rd round, U/W control (2:1)
1st game he was mana screwed so I tempo and ramped kinda smoothly. scapeshift at 8 lands.
2nd game back and forth counter battles. Lost to double restoration angels and a geist.
3rd game long ass game. SB in lots of creatures to stable and pressure the board. Won a snapcaster flashback counter battle and drew 2 scapeshifts for backup combo.
4th round, UR twin (2:0)
1st game is all about ramp and BTL combo timing. I enjoy some of the tempo play in respond to his fetches and got to kill some of his creatures with izzet charms.
2nd game I SB in 3 Baloth and a "mom and dad" (my opponents laughed hard when I call the card mom and dad XD). with using creatures pressuring him, I cot to waste some of his counters and won a counter battle of he casting twin. Got to combo out at the next turn
To sum up, I like this list A LOT! I also enjoy boarding in creatures in control matchups (and SB out most of the BTL). Response to fetches is a good tempo play since he will be lack of one land.
What is your list?
I find myself in a doubt between btl and rug scapeshift. Btl seems to clunky with alot of cmc4/5 in the md. Like some say it's control game is less then the Rug version. But what is what we need now?!
The Rug list uses mana ramp and tempo to win at the expense of permanent answers (hence it actually being a tempo deck). Like most tempo decks, the idea is just to pose a threat and delay your opponent until that threat kills them. You often kill someone the turn before they kill you.
This is the big reason I don't like bring to light, because is deviates from the tempo/combo nature of the deck and tries to make scapeshift into a control deck. It's also off-curve (the deck operates on even mana for the first few turns).
Here's a good primer for everyone coming to learn about the deck. Daryl Ayers championed this deck for a while, and he has tons of testing and competition with the deck.
Oh also, I like the voidslime idea. I've been testing with trickbind a lot in twin and it has been very useful against the eldrazi decks. Spreading seas has also worked well.
I find myself in a doubt between btl and rug scapeshift. Btl seems to clunky with alot of cmc4/5 in the md. Like some say it's control game is less then the Rug version. But what is what we need now?!
I like the BTL list very much so far after trying the think twice version and gift version.
In control matchup's, I often -2 BTL (leave one 1 MB just in case), electrolyze, hunting wilds, and such, and I side in some numbers of creatures, negate, and occasionally Destructive Revelry for blood moon and such.
you are right that we have a bit high number on cmc4,5 spells, but I think the SB transition to a creature-ish deck is pretty good. Also the silverbullet strategy is pretty awesome.
I also like the high possible cards to topdeck (many card draw/card-selection, and 6-7 copies of scapeshifts) win this list provides, especially when we are dead on board.
The most important question must be. Wich build is right in wich meta?
I'm not a long-time scapeshift player and not a mtg expert either, but I honestly don't think there's a right answer to this one.
Here are some of my thoughts -
for starter, the meta is comparably diverse now....and more importantly, I found it's better to use the list that suits your playstyle.
if you are worrying about the control matchups, look at the counters that both lists provide - they are actually not that different!
All I can see are
1. RUG has 1 more snappy and maybe more bolt-snap-bolt play.
2. Peer Through Depths vs. anticipate (reveal vs. not reveal; 5 sorcery/instant cards vs. 3 all-types of cards)
3. creature counts (in both MB and SB)
4. the only matchup i think is worse for BTL than RUG is infect...
To me, these are more playstyle preferences than meta call. The meta adjustment can be added to both lists in different ways.
I find myself in a doubt between btl and rug scapeshift. Btl seems to clunky with alot of cmc4/5 in the md. Like some say it's control game is less then the Rug version.
This is the big reason I don't like bring to light, because is deviates from the tempo/combo nature of the deck and tries to make scapeshift into a control deck. It's also off-curve (the deck operates on even mana for the first few turns).
Okay...there are clearly problems identifying the nature and strengths of these archetypes if two people believe opposite things about the BtL version. Personally I think that the basic BtL list does play less like a control and more like a combo deck due to the slots taken up by the eponymous card and the additional focus it puts on the combo. The Temur list I used (it was a pretty standard version at the time) spent most of the game gaining tempo and holding things off with control cards. One of the reasons I liked this archetype was that it played more like a control deck than any other tier 1 deck (it was at the time) in Modern. UR twin skewed way more towards tempo due to the simple fact that it's combo is faster. Temur Scapeshift takes longer to assemble so it has to play a harder control game.
I like the BTL list very much so far after trying the think twice version and gift version.
I hadn't heard of this (so I went back a few pages and read it last night), but I have been testing out a BtL build that swaps card advantage/quality in for some of the land tutors and have really liked it. I centered it around Telling Time (I didn't even consider Think Twice) and added couple more counters. It is not nearly as all-in on the control game as the Think Twice build, but I have feeling that it could move more in that direction. Think Twice seems like it would not be all that great in the deck because our win should benefit more from card quality than advantage, but I swapped them into my build and went more all in like the Think Twice deck, and I was genuinely surprised at how many cards I kept in hand throughout the game. I will need more tests to see how it works, and oddly there are a few little cards I thought I had but didn't, but it takes the deck in a direction that I prefer at the very least.
The two big differences between what I am testing now and what the Think Twice poster built are that I am still running two Bring to Light, and I only have two Cryptic Command so far. That will change, but it is what I am testing at the moment. Might proxy to test eventually. I really have never felt like the BtL land base was all that clunky, you just need to think a bit more carefully about what you fetch and tap.
You prepare for the SG with your sideboard. Either Leyline of Sanctity or you go more aggressive in the SB plan. 4x Leyline in the side (if you are splashing white for the BTL version) will do the trick. Yes Karn or whatever can exile it, but we have Remands and Negates to keep Karn from seeing the light of day.
I have it in the side. It is awesome. Used to run it in Twin
I have been wanting to try Voidslime! Leyline has been pretty great for me, let me know how the Voidslimes work out!
Seems like the best decks are going to be Tron, Affinity, Burn, and maybe Grishoalbrand? White has Stony Silence, Timely Reinforcements, and Rest in Peace to hose those decks. Of course there's pretty good SB cards in RUG against those decks, but I'm just having a hard time seeing what black offers aside from Slaughter Games, which may not be so relevant now.
Generally speaking, the standard RUG version differs from the BtL version by:
1) 2-3 Snapcaster Mage as opposed to 1
2) ~4 cantrips (the preferred one being Anticipate)
3) Lightning Bolt due to not being able to fetch main-board sweepers and for synergy with more Snapcaster
4) Does not run additional ramp (no Farseek)
5) 25 lands, as opposed to the 26 preferred by BtL lists
I would happily splash black with BTL for Slaughter Games, if even only just to hit Karn or Ulamog in Tron.
GU Infect | x Affinity | RWG Naya Burn | W Death and Taxes | U Merfolk | BURG BTL Scapeshift | WUUW Titan | R Goblins | BURGW Suicide Zoo
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
What is your list?
I find myself in a doubt between btl and rug scapeshift. Btl seems to clunky with alot of cmc4/5 in the md. Like some say it's control game is less then the Rug version. But what is what we need now?!
It's weird that there isn't one, because if it is the deck I am thinking of it is very different. It is way more aggressive than Temur Scapeshift generally is, and it's strategy ramps faster. It also had some coverage and did decently at an event recently (SCG or GP).
I have no say about this thread, so perhaps this is the place to discuss it and I am totally wrong.
EDIT:
Is THIS the deck you are talking about? That is what I assumed (and why I said it was so different), but perhaps you are talking about another RG Scapeshift deck.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
The Rug list uses mana ramp and tempo to win at the expense of permanent answers (hence it actually being a tempo deck). Like most tempo decks, the idea is just to pose a threat and delay your opponent until that threat kills them. You often kill someone the turn before they kill you.
This is the big reason I don't like bring to light, because is deviates from the tempo/combo nature of the deck and tries to make scapeshift into a control deck. It's also off-curve (the deck operates on even mana for the first few turns).
Here's a good primer for everyone coming to learn about the deck. Daryl Ayers championed this deck for a while, and he has tons of testing and competition with the deck.
http://www.kaboommtg.com/complete-rug-scapeshift-primer/
Oh also, I like the voidslime idea. I've been testing with trickbind a lot in twin and it has been very useful against the eldrazi decks. Spreading seas has also worked well.
I'm using Jeff's list. (I replace a Obstinate Baloth with Pia and Kiran Nalaar
http://themeadery.org/b/jeffhoogland/read/bringing-scapeshift-to-light/
I like the BTL list very much so far after trying the think twice version and gift version.
In control matchup's, I often -2 BTL (leave one 1 MB just in case), electrolyze, hunting wilds, and such, and I side in some numbers of creatures, negate, and occasionally Destructive Revelry for blood moon and such.
you are right that we have a bit high number on cmc4,5 spells, but I think the SB transition to a creature-ish deck is pretty good. Also the silverbullet strategy is pretty awesome.
I also like the high possible cards to topdeck (many card draw/card-selection, and 6-7 copies of scapeshifts) win this list provides, especially when we are dead on board.
I'm not a long-time scapeshift player and not a mtg expert either, but I honestly don't think there's a right answer to this one.
Here are some of my thoughts -
for starter, the meta is comparably diverse now....and more importantly, I found it's better to use the list that suits your playstyle.
if you are worrying about the control matchups, look at the counters that both lists provide - they are actually not that different!
All I can see are
1. RUG has 1 more snappy and maybe more bolt-snap-bolt play.
2. Peer Through Depths vs. anticipate (reveal vs. not reveal; 5 sorcery/instant cards vs. 3 all-types of cards)
3. creature counts (in both MB and SB)
4. the only matchup i think is worse for BTL than RUG is infect...
To me, these are more playstyle preferences than meta call. The meta adjustment can be added to both lists in different ways.
Okay...there are clearly problems identifying the nature and strengths of these archetypes if two people believe opposite things about the BtL version. Personally I think that the basic BtL list does play less like a control and more like a combo deck due to the slots taken up by the eponymous card and the additional focus it puts on the combo. The Temur list I used (it was a pretty standard version at the time) spent most of the game gaining tempo and holding things off with control cards. One of the reasons I liked this archetype was that it played more like a control deck than any other tier 1 deck (it was at the time) in Modern. UR twin skewed way more towards tempo due to the simple fact that it's combo is faster. Temur Scapeshift takes longer to assemble so it has to play a harder control game.
I hadn't heard of this (so I went back a few pages and read it last night), but I have been testing out a BtL build that swaps card advantage/quality in for some of the land tutors and have really liked it. I centered it around Telling Time (I didn't even consider Think Twice) and added couple more counters. It is not nearly as all-in on the control game as the Think Twice build, but I have feeling that it could move more in that direction. Think Twice seems like it would not be all that great in the deck because our win should benefit more from card quality than advantage, but I swapped them into my build and went more all in like the Think Twice deck, and I was genuinely surprised at how many cards I kept in hand throughout the game. I will need more tests to see how it works, and oddly there are a few little cards I thought I had but didn't, but it takes the deck in a direction that I prefer at the very least.
The two big differences between what I am testing now and what the Think Twice poster built are that I am still running two Bring to Light, and I only have two Cryptic Command so far. That will change, but it is what I am testing at the moment. Might proxy to test eventually. I really have never felt like the BtL land base was all that clunky, you just need to think a bit more carefully about what you fetch and tap.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!