I think you're underestimating renegade rallier as we run quite a few cards to enable revolt. Ghost quarter and selfless spirit have been spoken for but we also run tectonic edge, horizon canopy and qasali pridemage as well as burrenton forge-tender in the side.
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Your success in playing dnt/hatebears is determined largely by your ability to read and prepare for the meta that you will be playing in. Furthermore, it has an absolutely brutal learning curve. Expect to lose; a lot.
I proxied GW Hatebears, playtested it a while and love how it plays. I like it more aggressive than WB vial version - the blink tricks are cool, but always came a bit late for my taste. Now I'm thinking about buying into it as my first "real" non-budget deck. My hesitation is, that I barely see good results on a competitive level and I don't really understand why? Does GW Hatebears have any extreme horror match-ups? I don't need to play a Tier 1 deck, but I think I need something at solid tier 2 power level to compete in long terms, because I want to play the deck for a looong time and stay always viable. I really appreciate your help. I want to play a deck I love but I also like winning. The other deck I like would be Coco Elves. Please help me to make the right decision
Thank you
Welcome to the mostly quiet thread of GW hatenbears.
Hatebears is a deck you play if you know your meta extremely well. It's not a solid choice for a blind meta, at least, not anymore. Back when Pod was in charge we were a lot better with Maindeck search hate, but these days we've fallen by the wayside. Hatebears is a deck for unfair metas, in my opinion. Thalias, Quasali Pridemage, Scooze, all the good stuff is used to slow the opponent down and make them play honest or deny them resources
The deck's main issue is that, due to it's colors of G/W and don't bother running a third color thanks to Leonin Arbiter, is that we lack removal. Path is fine and all, but removal like Dromoka's Command and ect require that you have a creature on board. Because of that, the top tier decks will kill you if you go into the late game, or if you don't establish a boardstate early. Jund will easily out attrition you, Tron dropping Ugin is a GG, Eldrazi is Eldrazi (Screw TKS even if our Mana Denial works wonders on them), Burn will ruin your day unless you can stick a Thalia or Kor Firewalker or Finks, and Affinity's a rough fight game 1.
It's a deck that will win despite the odds, but it comes down to you, the pilot. You have to KNOW your Meta very well in order for this deck to do well, not to mention you need to work on predicting how your foe might react.
tl;dr Very skill and knowledge intensive, but very rewarding.
I'll add from my experience that you can out grind Jund with the right build. I've been having great Jund Matchups since I added a Seagate Wreckage, as it effectively helps us draw twice per turn.
But yeah, the Two biggest lopsided matches for the deck have to be Tron and Affinity IMO. Burn you can beat with Scooze/Eidolon of Rhetoric/Finks/What have you, but Affinity just rolls over us Game 1 unless you draw the perfect hand to their bad one. It gets better postboard, but Tron does not. Tron can't be slowed down as easily and Turn 3 Karn/O-Stone just obliterates us.
Looking for help and was pointed in this direction. I checked the Maverick forum and it's dead. I'm in an awkward spot due to some medical issues and I can't test or play Magic for awhile. I'm looking to tweak my list to get it as competitive as possible while maintaining the heart as a Maverick list. I'd post my list all fancy, but I'm on my phone.
Your list is very close to what I was running for GW hatebears. I ran 4 brushland with GQ and Gavony so that I could utilize Eldrazi Displacer. I love the deck. Rallier enables the turn the corner turns and a very brutal way. Deck didn't curve out it more manuevered until suddenly you GQ 4 times between you OP end step and the start of yours and the OP would find their mana base completely decimated. Add this to the fact your board presence was usually higher you could keep them locked down and grind them into dust. What I'm trying to accomplish is more of a shovel to the face style deck. CoCo provides value and push. It's almost always a good top deck. Aether Vial gets worse as the game progresses.
I'll add from my experience that you can out grind Jund with the right build. I've been having great Jund Matchups since I added a Seagate Wreckage, as it effectively helps us draw twice per turn.
But yeah, the Two biggest lopsided matches for the deck have to be Tron and Affinity IMO. Burn you can beat with Scooze/Eidolon of Rhetoric/Finks/What have you, but Affinity just rolls over us Game 1 unless you draw the perfect hand to their bad one. It gets better postboard, but Tron does not. Tron can't be slowed down as easily and Turn 3 Karn/O-Stone just obliterates us.
Rushing out a Thalia, Heretic Cathar slows down Tron Immensely, especially if you draw into your LD. I fought against Tron in an IQ with two MD HC's, and she made it so the Tron player could not play magic at all at some points.
This is what I'm going to try out at FNM. I'm abandoning Vial, Company, and high creature counts in favor of a more control approach. Really wish G/W had more removal but I'll make do with whats available.
Side deck will have the usual suspects of stuff like Rest in Peace, Grafdigger's Cage, Thalia, etc. I tried to fit in the most effective creatures with what I have, still debating whether I want to use Liege or Sigarda or Thrun for the 4/5 mana slot or if I want to use planeswalkers.
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Collecting Timbermare, hit me up if you have any for trade
Did you get a chance to cast Ajani Unyielding? Were you using it primarily for its + ability or - ability? I typically have found cards with CMC 5+ to slow my list down considerably, but am curious to see if your experience was similar.
I got to play Ajani in round 3. He actually won me the game since we were in a top deck war. I was alternating between his +2 and his -2. I had to -2 him from the get go to get rid of a Tarmogoyf, then next turn I drew the second Ajani and his + gave me a Voice and a Smiter. In that situation he was great but I haven't been able to draw him in any other games. The only card I didn't get to try out was Rustic Clachan and it might get the boot for a different land.
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Collecting Timbermare, hit me up if you have any for trade
So with Scattered Groves being revealed, do we run this alongside Horizon Canopy or is it going to be one or the other? I want to try a list with 4 of each to see how it handles.
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Collecting Timbermare, hit me up if you have any for trade
I believe WoTC's new policy is to make sure that every color can enjoy the exciting gameplay mechanic of making undercosted dudes and then turning them sideways. Clearly the future of magic.
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Podríamos hacer un topic donde marquemos los peores horrores de ortografía.
Going to take Hatebears to FNM tomorrow, could use some feedback on the list. I'm going to be trying out Scattered Groves and Rhonas the Indomitable in a more aggro oriented strategy, suggestions are more than welcome to try and get that 4-0 win.
Comes down to 23 lands, 9 non-creature spells, and 28 creatures. I'd love to find room for another Qasali Pridemage, thinking that either a Rhonas or a Liege is most likely to get the axe. Or find room for a playset of Gideon of the Trials, I'd have to cut the Company's and 2 other spells for that. Thanks for the input.
EDIT:
Here's what I'd take out for Gideons. I'd take out 2 Collected Company, 1 Wilt-Leaf Liege, and 1 Rhonas the Indomitable.
I'm up in the air on whether I want to play Hatebears or Death & Taxes in Bant, so I've been brewing both!
My D&T take is on the D&T primer if anyone is interested...
Ill be honest i think you are trying to do too much. There are too many 1 ofs and 2 ofs it feels like you are not sure what you want to do with the deck.
I honestly think that if thats the kind of deck you want to play just play Bant Company(retreat version) it plays very much like what you are trying to do.
Bant has alot of the same cards you are playing above and is quite consistant.
I'll add from my experience that you can out grind Jund with the right build. I've been having great Jund Matchups since I added a Seagate Wreckage, as it effectively helps us draw twice per turn.
But yeah, the Two biggest lopsided matches for the deck have to be Tron and Affinity IMO. Burn you can beat with Scooze/Eidolon of Rhetoric/Finks/What have you, but Affinity just rolls over us Game 1 unless you draw the perfect hand to their bad one. It gets better postboard, but Tron does not. Tron can't be slowed down as easily and Turn 3 Karn/O-Stone just obliterates us.
Link
http://decks.deckedbuilder.com/d/274472
Looking for help testing, tweaking, and constructive criticism
https://www.reddit.com/r/ModernMagic/comments/5swd60/dark_maverick_test_help/
Here is the current list after some suggestions from yesterday.
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Voice of Resurgence
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
2 Eternal Witness
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Renegade Rallier
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Collected Company
2 Forest
1 Gavony Township
1 Godless Shrine
1 Plains
1 Overgrown Tomb
3 Ghost Quarter
4 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
I apologize for any terrible formatting. Haven't done this in a long time.
Rushing out a Thalia, Heretic Cathar slows down Tron Immensely, especially if you draw into your LD. I fought against Tron in an IQ with two MD HC's, and she made it so the Tron player could not play magic at all at some points.
RWGisela, Blade of Explosions
Working on making a less creature heavy deck and more on a control aspect. Thinking of cards like Mana Tithe and the Saffi Rallier combo.
4 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Temple Garden
2 Stirring Wildwood
2 Forest
2 Plains
1 Rustic Clachan
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Voice of Resurgence
2 Saffi Eriksdotter
3 Renegade Rallier
3 Loxodon Smiter
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
4 Mana Tithe
2 Dromoka's Command
2 Blasting Station
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Heroic Intervention
Side deck will have the usual suspects of stuff like Rest in Peace, Grafdigger's Cage, Thalia, etc. I tried to fit in the most effective creatures with what I have, still debating whether I want to use Liege or Sigarda or Thrun for the 4/5 mana slot or if I want to use planeswalkers.
I decided before FNM that the 4 Mana Tithe wouldn't be good enough so I swapped them and 1 Scavenging Ooze out for 2 Ajani Unyielding, 1 Last Breath, and 2 Qasali Pridemage
I went 4-0 at FNM, playing against a budget GB Elves, Infect, some kind of GB aggro deck, and Thopter Sword Combo.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebears4 dryad militant
4 noble hierarch
4 voice of resurgence
4 Leon arbiter
2 Thalia, guardian of thraben
2 scavenging ooze
4 kitchen finks
4 loxodon Smiter
4 wilt-leaf liege
4 razorverge thicket
4 temple garden
3 stirring wildwood
1 gavony township
4 Horizon canopy
2 plains
2 Forrest
2 spellskite
2 quasali pridemage
2 kataki, war's wage
1 scavenging ooze
1 thalia, guardian of thraben
1 Thrun, the last troll
1 Sigarda, host of herons
2 selfless spirit
1 Merila, Slyv Outkast
2 Aven Mindcensor
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
Bonkers with flicker, and a castable 3 mana even for a vial deck.
3 Scattered Groves
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Temple Garden
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
2 Plains
2 Forest
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Voice of Resurgence
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Loxodon Smiter
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Rhonas the Indomitable
3 Wilt-Leaf Liege
1 Surrak, the Hunt Caller
3 Dromoka's Command
2 Collected Company
Comes down to 23 lands, 9 non-creature spells, and 28 creatures. I'd love to find room for another Qasali Pridemage, thinking that either a Rhonas or a Liege is most likely to get the axe. Or find room for a playset of Gideon of the Trials, I'd have to cut the Company's and 2 other spells for that. Thanks for the input.
EDIT:
Here's what I'd take out for Gideons. I'd take out 2 Collected Company, 1 Wilt-Leaf Liege, and 1 Rhonas the Indomitable.
My D&T take is on the D&T primer if anyone is interested...
Here's my Hatebears variant.
4 Æther Vial
2 Smuggler's Copter
//Creature (24)
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Reflector Mage
2 Renegade Rallier
2 Restoration Angel
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Spell Queller
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Voice of Resurgence
//Enchantment (1)
1 Cast Out
//Instant (7)
2 Collected Company
1 Dromoka's Command
4 Path to Exile
2 Breeding Pool
2 Dryad Arbor
1 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
1 Gavony Township
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Island
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Mutavault
1 Plains
1 Tectonic Edge
3 Temple Garden
3 Windswept Heath
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Rest in Peace
1 Runed Halo
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Stony Silence
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Voice of Resurgence
1 Wilt-Leaf Liege
Looking for any and all help I can get on it. 3-colours is a little tricky with decks like these.
Really not sold on my Renegade Rallier in this deck. Maybe just make them an extra Voice of Resurgence and Restoration Angel?
I honestly think that if thats the kind of deck you want to play just play Bant Company(retreat version) it plays very much like what you are trying to do.
Bant has alot of the same cards you are playing above and is quite consistant.
What do you guys think of the Mono W list?
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=114267
Both lists were great though!