Round 2 I played boggles and dropped a T2 Thalia while he was stuck on one land. G2, I got a Mirran Crusader out.
Round 3 and 4 I played Burn. I actually lost a game during round 4 due to a misplay.
The MVP of the day was Far and Away Thalia. She's a powerhouse.
I need help with playing against Chord decks. I do reasonably well against most players at my local meta except for the Chord player. I even got one of the best starting hands possible last time, but he got one of his too and it beat mine. It's an Abzan Chord deck with his main win cons being growing huge with Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit/Gavony Township, infinite life with Finks, or infinite burn with Redcap. At this point I'm thinking of making my entire side deck dedicated to beating him just once.
I've played a lot of abzan company and I don't think that's a matchup hate bears should have trouble with. Arbiter shuts off chord, land destruction shuts off Gavony, path breaks up their combo and we have bigger beaters than them. If you really wanted to sideboard grafdiggers cage turns off their whole deck, but I feel good enough Maindeck I wouldn't sideboard for the matchup
Anyone else having trouble against Bx Eldrazi decks? It seems like the plan is to attack their mana/searching and get them through the air, but sometimes they set up really fast with their Relic of Progenitus into Blight Herder. Any advice?
I haven't played against the deck but I have played on the Eldrazi side. I don't think it's a good matchup for us. They have trouble with fast aggressive strategies and flying threats, neither of which are our strong points. Ghost quarter will slow them down a bit but is a waste if it also is hindering your own development
I do reasonably well against BW Eldrazi because of Hushwing Gryff stopping some of their abilities (mostly Wasteland Strangler), and also puts me to 5 flyers. It will also hit some new stupid cards, like Thought-Knot Seer and Eldrazi Mimic as well. The former is going to be especially nasty if they can ramp into it turn 2 frequently, which they can and it messes up Loxodon Smiter and Wilt-Leaf Liege.
Of course, if you have 3-4 Smiter and 3 WLL, you should be strong against their early discard.
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Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I think it's unfortunate as Twin was a good matchup, especially post board with chokes. That said, Affinity and Tron become a lot better and will pick up more meta share, and both of those are decks I'm happy to see. I'll probably add a 4th pridemage to the main deck and I've got some extra sideboard slots now that I don't have any use for choke or Thrun.
Do the Swords of X & Y get better now too? Part of their issue was that they were silly in the face of Twin. They don't help vs. Tron but can certainly help in racing against the other 'fair' decks in the format. Presumably Burn will be on the rise as well, swords would be handy here too. An equipped Smiter is no joke. Auriok Champion looks pretty powerful with a sword, especially if red sweepers are the common choice. Steelshaper's Gift is a pretty reasonable card.
The thing about swords is that if the creature gets destroyed with the equip on the stack, you fall behind really bad. I replaced the swords (usually good in grindy matchups, not in something like affinity or burn) for Mirran Crusader.
I believe WoTC's new policy is to make sure that every color can enjoy the exciting gameplay mechanic of making undercosted dudes and then turning them sideways. Clearly the future of magic.
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Podríamos hacer un topic donde marquemos los peores horrores de ortografía.
Twin is weird, IMO, and not unbanning anything is terrible. Taking Twin out simply means that, with Eldrazi rising and Tron getting stronger, Control will not benefit from Twin being out. It does mean that U-based control will be completely absent from Modern as a competitive style of deck. in the absence of any un-bannings.
Affinity, Burn, Tron, Eldrazi will be the decks to beat, which will probably slightly help Infect as well, since it has a stronger game against Tron and Eldrazi than against Twin.
For us, well, we can focus even more on Tron and Affinity. Combo is no longer a problem, it seems (except to the extent that Infect is a tempo deck with an aggro-combo finisher at times), except for CoCo-based infinite life gain/infinite damage combos, which isn't that relevant.
I predict we will see some mid-meta changes to the Ban List as it becomes a meta with only giant creature ramp mid-range and pure aggro dominating the format. GW Hatebears and Merfolk become the decks most capable of upsetting the meta, IMO, and with Combo gone, each can focus on beating their worst matches.
Without Stoneforge Mystic, equipment remains a strictly sub-par choice.
I'm probably replacing Choke with something else now. Maybe a second Gaddock Teeg.
@Redtwister, A bit early for some of those conclusions I would think. Twin being such a staple of the format it had become something of a benchmark for combo decks to look at and ask themselves "What are the reasons to play this over a Twin deck?"
I agree that tron will gain a certain boost from this, alongside affinity and possibly burn they will probably gain percentage points on the meta but far from combo not being relevant the decks that twin kept somewhat suppressed by its presence will now have a decent shot and filling in the void. Ad-Naus, Storm, Living End, Coco-Combo (As you mentioned), and others are all powerful decks but consistently had problems when facing twin.
Control not being all that relevant is something of a misnomer in the modern forums as of late. Traditional draw-go control, yes, this is not really present but instead due to the card pool and the variety of viable decks it is forced to take different forms. Its just not feasible to cram 12 situational counter-spells into a deck alongside some removal and jump in to the modern meta hoping to be successful, There has to be some sort of proactive game plan paired with permission in order to win consistently.
@Redtwister, A bit early for some of those conclusions I would think. Twin being such a staple of the format it had become something of a benchmark for combo decks to look at and ask themselves "What are the reasons to play this over a Twin deck?" But that doesn't mean that its the ONLY combo deck and its disappearance destroys an entire archtype...
I agree that tron will gain a certain boost from this, alongside affinity and possibly burn they will probably gain percentage points on the meta but far from combo not being relevant the decks that twin kept somewhat suppressed by its presence will now have a decent shot at filling in the void. Ad-Naus, Storm, Living End, Coco-Combo (As you mentioned), and others are all powerful decks but consistently measured up worse than just playing twin instead.
Control not being all that relevant is something of a misnomer in the modern forums as of late. Traditional draw-go control, yes, this is not really present but instead due to the card pool and the variety of viable decks it is forced to take different forms. Its just not feasible to cram 12 situational counter-spells into a deck alongside some removal and jump in to the modern meta hoping to be successful, There has to be some sort of proactive game plan paired with permission in order to win consistently.
I predict we will see some mid-meta changes to the Ban List as it becomes a meta with only giant creature ramp mid-range and pure aggro dominating the format. GW Hatebears and Merfolk become the decks most capable of upsetting the meta, IMO, and with Combo gone, each can focus on beating their worst matches.
As stated above I disagree with this statement, I highly recommend you read a few articles to get a better idea of how wizards goes through the banning process and what they hope to achieve by it. Also this will help you judge how the metagame might react to situations such as this but its never as radical as what you propose.
I found tons after about thirty seconds of searching google. In particular Eric Lauer's quotes in this one are informative.
Going forward I feel that aether vial will be more important as we are going to be sacrificing lands like there's no tomorrow with the surge of tron and eldrazi. I think that beast within will be a great sideboard card for those decks.
@Epsilonson
I am not saying that U-based Control hasn't been viable in Modern recently. I played Grixis control for a few months, since it was the strongest control deck (both in it's counter-based and its hand destruction-based types) and I played UWR Control for about a year in 2014.
The weakness of U-based Control is not just because of this or that ban, but on the abilities and effects that trigger on the casting of the card. UWx Control really has huge problems with the Eldrazi deck running all 8 hand destruction spells and ramping into big stuff, which combined with it's issues with really fast aggro decks (true aggro is supposed to be the nemesis of control, so that's fine with me), makes U-based Control weak in too many parts of the deck-type wheel to be playable. It is just another way to create very powerful effects that cannot be interacted with, and control is, by definition, a deck that relies on being able to interact heavily.
Twin represented a viable Control deck in Modern because it could control the game into the mid-game and then simply win with the Combo. (For those not familiar with my characterization of deck types, I do not consider Combo a deck type. Deck types include Aggro, Tempo or Aggro-Control, Mid-Range (both Beatdown Ramp and traditional Hand Destruction/Targeted Removal Jund-style decks), Control, and Hybrid. Combo is a way of finishing that is unique in that it ends the game in effect instantly, not a deck type.)
Control decks that require enough creatures to be "proactive" (Control is not "proactive, btw, it is reactive and highly interactive, that's how it works) quickly become mid-range decks, working on incremental board position and a lot of hand destruction and removal or Tempo decks running out an early creature or two, using some degree of counterspell protection or incremental swarming (Delver, Merfolk, UWR Geist are examples). A couple counterspells do not a control deck make. Losing Twin might make Tempo stronger and maybe that is good against Eldrazi and Tron.
I'm also not overly concerned with what WotC is trying to do (though I am well aware of their stated goals with how fast the format is), but what are the actual results of what they are doing.
And yes, some other combo decks might be able to find a space since Splinter Twin tended to be strictly more consistent and faster, but if Splinter Twin was that much better than them, I suspect it was largely due to consistency and speed, combined with, lo and behold, it being a control deck. Guess what, if they were slower and less consistent than Twin, they won't race Affinity and Burn and Infect. They also will likely be susceptible to the excessive hand destruction of Eldrazi. I'm not ruling it out, but I think the combination of removing Twin and the very powerful new Eldrazi cards with "on casting" triggered abilities hurts any combo deck that couldn't already compete with Twin in the format. IMO, that leaves Scapeshift and maybe CoCo (which means I am running either more Gaddock Teeg or a coupe of Grafdigger's Cage.)
Maybe Lantern Control, effectively another prison-style deck, get's better. That would serve Wizards right.
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Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
So I was little late on hearing Twins ban. People are now losing their minds about G/x Tron taking over the meta and last i remembered doesn't this deck have a decent matchup against Tron?
I don't think GW Hatebears should be worried if the meta becomes G/x Tron, Affinity, Eldrazi, but I am worried about the health of the format if it is reduced to Big Ramp and very fast aggro. Based on MTGTOP8 stats, prior to the ban, Eldrazi, Gr Tron, Affinity, Burn, Twin, Infect and Bloom made up a solid 50% of the meta, with Tron and Eldrazi growing. Twin and Bloom accounted for roughly 16% of the meta and with their banning, the immediate beneficiaries will be the other Tier 1 decks, which is good for anti-meta decks like us and tempo decks like Merfolk because we actually shape up well against most of that in one way or another, with some healthy exceptions (Merfolk is weak to Affinity, we aren't strong against Infect.)
But I enjoy playing a diverse format and taking away Control to put more mid-range decks into the format and strengthen pure aggro is boring and non-interactive. For example, moving from Twin to CoCo Chord is basically moving from a Control deck with a combo finish to a mid-range deck with a combo finish. Also, stuff like Ad Nauseum in Modern is more or less an aggro combo (Combo Burn) deck, and it just hopes to not lose to other aggro decks before it can go off.
Like I said, I hope Lantern Control grows massively (it feels to me kind of like the Lands deck of Modern in its grindy, lock-out kind of play), along with GW Hatebears, as viable prison control strategies, and various tempo decks that were Tier 2 (Infect, Merfolk) or that had just fallen out of competitive play (UWR Geist). IMO, that would be a positive counter to the growth of non-interactive aggro and mid-range strategies that are inimical to U-based control not using a combo finish.
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Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Hi m8s i build a mono white death and taxes deck and i really like the gw hatebears also. since i will have much cards i am conseder to build it also but my problem is that i am defenatlly cant afford the Noble Hierarchs, the full set of Voice of Resurgence and Horizon Canopys.... I know i can run birds instead of nobles and an other hatebear instead of voice but is this worth it? i mean it will be a budget deck this way and i am not sure if it worth the investment since i cant buy the hole deck!! what do u think should i stick to my d&t mono white? Tnx
People might disagree with me, but having played a deck with birds instead of nobles, I don't think I would play birds in this build. The ramp is not bad for sure, but we're still a deck that wins by putting our opponents under pressure while disrupting their game plan, and the exalted trigger is an extremely important part of that. Heirarch is also a far better top deck because of the exalted trigger whereas birds is about the worst top deck you can have.
Voice is one of our best cards and part of how we beat grindy decks, it is important and I don't know how good the deck is with out them.
Canopies you can probably live without just fine, they give the deck some added push if we get bogged down but the deck still functions the same in the early to mid game without them.
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4c Traverse Shadow, RG Eldrazi, Death and Taxes
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3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Voice of Resurgence
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Leonin Arbiter
2 Aven Mindcensor
4 Loxodon Smiter
3 Wilt-Leaf Liege
2 Collected Company
2 Dromoka's Command
4 Path to Exile
22 Land
Round 2 I played boggles and dropped a T2 Thalia while he was stuck on one land. G2, I got a Mirran Crusader out.
Round 3 and 4 I played Burn. I actually lost a game during round 4 due to a misplay.
The MVP of the day was Far and Away Thalia. She's a powerhouse.
EDH - GU Kruphix, God of Horizons, WB Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts, GUR Surrak Dragonclaw, WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores, R Purphoros, God of the Forge, RW Archangel Avacyn
This is the side I'm using at the moment:
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Hushwing Gryff
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Stony Silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Choke
1 Spellskite
1 Terminus
I'm 0-5 against this guy, I gotta make it 1-5 this FNM.
Of course, if you have 3-4 Smiter and 3 WLL, you should be strong against their early discard.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
My second thoughts are to retool side deck for the other decks I see in my meta like Affinity, Soul Sisters, Chord, and Eldrazi.
Affinity, Burn, Tron, Eldrazi will be the decks to beat, which will probably slightly help Infect as well, since it has a stronger game against Tron and Eldrazi than against Twin.
For us, well, we can focus even more on Tron and Affinity. Combo is no longer a problem, it seems (except to the extent that Infect is a tempo deck with an aggro-combo finisher at times), except for CoCo-based infinite life gain/infinite damage combos, which isn't that relevant.
I predict we will see some mid-meta changes to the Ban List as it becomes a meta with only giant creature ramp mid-range and pure aggro dominating the format. GW Hatebears and Merfolk become the decks most capable of upsetting the meta, IMO, and with Combo gone, each can focus on beating their worst matches.
Without Stoneforge Mystic, equipment remains a strictly sub-par choice.
I'm probably replacing Choke with something else now. Maybe a second Gaddock Teeg.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I agree that tron will gain a certain boost from this, alongside affinity and possibly burn they will probably gain percentage points on the meta but far from combo not being relevant the decks that twin kept somewhat suppressed by its presence will now have a decent shot and filling in the void. Ad-Naus, Storm, Living End, Coco-Combo (As you mentioned), and others are all powerful decks but consistently had problems when facing twin.
Control not being all that relevant is something of a misnomer in the modern forums as of late. Traditional draw-go control, yes, this is not really present but instead due to the card pool and the variety of viable decks it is forced to take different forms. Its just not feasible to cram 12 situational counter-spells into a deck alongside some removal and jump in to the modern meta hoping to be successful, There has to be some sort of proactive game plan paired with permission in order to win consistently.
@Redtwister, A bit early for some of those conclusions I would think. Twin being such a staple of the format it had become something of a benchmark for combo decks to look at and ask themselves "What are the reasons to play this over a Twin deck?" But that doesn't mean that its the ONLY combo deck and its disappearance destroys an entire archtype...
I agree that tron will gain a certain boost from this, alongside affinity and possibly burn they will probably gain percentage points on the meta but far from combo not being relevant the decks that twin kept somewhat suppressed by its presence will now have a decent shot at filling in the void. Ad-Naus, Storm, Living End, Coco-Combo (As you mentioned), and others are all powerful decks but consistently measured up worse than just playing twin instead.
Control not being all that relevant is something of a misnomer in the modern forums as of late. Traditional draw-go control, yes, this is not really present but instead due to the card pool and the variety of viable decks it is forced to take different forms. Its just not feasible to cram 12 situational counter-spells into a deck alongside some removal and jump in to the modern meta hoping to be successful, There has to be some sort of proactive game plan paired with permission in order to win consistently.
As stated above I disagree with this statement, I highly recommend you read a few articles to get a better idea of how wizards goes through the banning process and what they hope to achieve by it. Also this will help you judge how the metagame might react to situations such as this but its never as radical as what you propose.
I found tons after about thirty seconds of searching google. In particular Eric Lauer's quotes in this one are informative.
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/arcana/brief-history-modern-banned-list-2015-02-03 - History of modern bans
GUGEdric, Spymaster of Trest - Elfball
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic- Doomsday!
RWUEphara, God of the Polis - Blink + Control
GBGGlissa, the Traitor - Stax & Lands
URGMaelstrom Wanderer - Goodstuff RUG
RGWMayael the Anima - Timmy
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher - The One Hit Wonder
RGWMarath, Will of the Wild - Old-school Enchantress Hate
RWRAurelia, the Warleader - Equipment Aggro
GGGReki, the History of Kamigawa - Legends + Banding
UBRSedris, the Traitor King - Creatures with : Ability
BUBPhenax, God of Deception - Mill
*Sidenote, I specifically excluded infinite combos from all these decks with the exception of Marath and the squirrel nest + Earthcraft combo.
Looking for something Aggressive in modern? Try - BR Aggro
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
With Twin gone I just run even more affinity hate I think. Tron is a great matchup already, and maybe I run sun lance for affinity and infect?
I am not saying that U-based Control hasn't been viable in Modern recently. I played Grixis control for a few months, since it was the strongest control deck (both in it's counter-based and its hand destruction-based types) and I played UWR Control for about a year in 2014.
The weakness of U-based Control is not just because of this or that ban, but on the abilities and effects that trigger on the casting of the card. UWx Control really has huge problems with the Eldrazi deck running all 8 hand destruction spells and ramping into big stuff, which combined with it's issues with really fast aggro decks (true aggro is supposed to be the nemesis of control, so that's fine with me), makes U-based Control weak in too many parts of the deck-type wheel to be playable. It is just another way to create very powerful effects that cannot be interacted with, and control is, by definition, a deck that relies on being able to interact heavily.
Twin represented a viable Control deck in Modern because it could control the game into the mid-game and then simply win with the Combo. (For those not familiar with my characterization of deck types, I do not consider Combo a deck type. Deck types include Aggro, Tempo or Aggro-Control, Mid-Range (both Beatdown Ramp and traditional Hand Destruction/Targeted Removal Jund-style decks), Control, and Hybrid. Combo is a way of finishing that is unique in that it ends the game in effect instantly, not a deck type.)
Control decks that require enough creatures to be "proactive" (Control is not "proactive, btw, it is reactive and highly interactive, that's how it works) quickly become mid-range decks, working on incremental board position and a lot of hand destruction and removal or Tempo decks running out an early creature or two, using some degree of counterspell protection or incremental swarming (Delver, Merfolk, UWR Geist are examples). A couple counterspells do not a control deck make. Losing Twin might make Tempo stronger and maybe that is good against Eldrazi and Tron.
I'm also not overly concerned with what WotC is trying to do (though I am well aware of their stated goals with how fast the format is), but what are the actual results of what they are doing.
And yes, some other combo decks might be able to find a space since Splinter Twin tended to be strictly more consistent and faster, but if Splinter Twin was that much better than them, I suspect it was largely due to consistency and speed, combined with, lo and behold, it being a control deck. Guess what, if they were slower and less consistent than Twin, they won't race Affinity and Burn and Infect. They also will likely be susceptible to the excessive hand destruction of Eldrazi. I'm not ruling it out, but I think the combination of removing Twin and the very powerful new Eldrazi cards with "on casting" triggered abilities hurts any combo deck that couldn't already compete with Twin in the format. IMO, that leaves Scapeshift and maybe CoCo (which means I am running either more Gaddock Teeg or a coupe of Grafdigger's Cage.)
Maybe Lantern Control, effectively another prison-style deck, get's better. That would serve Wizards right.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Gisela,Blade of Goldnight WR
Sigarda,Heron's Grace WG
But I enjoy playing a diverse format and taking away Control to put more mid-range decks into the format and strengthen pure aggro is boring and non-interactive. For example, moving from Twin to CoCo Chord is basically moving from a Control deck with a combo finish to a mid-range deck with a combo finish. Also, stuff like Ad Nauseum in Modern is more or less an aggro combo (Combo Burn) deck, and it just hopes to not lose to other aggro decks before it can go off.
Like I said, I hope Lantern Control grows massively (it feels to me kind of like the Lands deck of Modern in its grindy, lock-out kind of play), along with GW Hatebears, as viable prison control strategies, and various tempo decks that were Tier 2 (Infect, Merfolk) or that had just fallen out of competitive play (UWR Geist). IMO, that would be a positive counter to the growth of non-interactive aggro and mid-range strategies that are inimical to U-based control not using a combo finish.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
People might disagree with me, but having played a deck with birds instead of nobles, I don't think I would play birds in this build. The ramp is not bad for sure, but we're still a deck that wins by putting our opponents under pressure while disrupting their game plan, and the exalted trigger is an extremely important part of that. Heirarch is also a far better top deck because of the exalted trigger whereas birds is about the worst top deck you can have.
Voice is one of our best cards and part of how we beat grindy decks, it is important and I don't know how good the deck is with out them.
Canopies you can probably live without just fine, they give the deck some added push if we get bogged down but the deck still functions the same in the early to mid game without them.