@Epsilonson: I'm curious, why did you SB Rest in Peace against Abzan Liege in the GP? To counter half of Lingering Souls? I also see that you only SB 1 Explosives in that matchup...
I believe WoTC's new policy is to make sure that every color can enjoy the exciting gameplay mechanic of making undercosted dudes and then turning them sideways. Clearly the future of magic.
Quote from "Kakaroto" »
Quote from "Disco Stu" »
Podríamos hacer un topic donde marquemos los peores horrores de ortografía.
@Epsilonson: I'm curious, why did you SB Rest in Peace against Abzan Liege in the GP? To counter half of Lingering Souls? I also see that you only SB 1 Explosives in that matchup...
Thanks for the report!
He probably put it in there to shrink goyfs and dodge the second wave of souls. Since it's Lil kid junk, there could also potentially be Finks to chump block aggro strategies or Knight of the Reliquary to lay the beats; RIP handles that. Access to G/W sideboard cards is one of my fave reasons for this deck. The hate is real lol.
@Epsilonson: I'm curious, why did you SB Rest in Peace against Abzan Liege in the GP? To counter half of Lingering Souls? I also see that you only SB 1 Explosives in that matchup...
Thanks for the report!
He probably put it in there to shrink goyfs and dodge the second wave of souls. Since it's Lil kid junk, there could also potentially be Finks to chump block aggro strategies or Knight of the Reliquary to lay the beats; RIP handles that. Access to G/W sideboard cards is one of my fave reasons for this deck. The hate is real lol.
@CosmoKramer, Pretty much what jonathanveedot mentioned. Also, he had four voice of resurgence in the main-deck. I debated between a second explosives (With the risk that I can have it as a dead draw vs a field of rhino/Goyf/Liege) or to go with RiP and hope to gain a cards worth of advantage of it after it lands.
That was my logic at the time but definitely looking back should have at least taken both explosives. Only thing I can remember is that after the first game I was still worried about the Rhino/Goyf so I went with RiP. Ended up being the vagaries of magic that gave him the triple souls and no individual beater. Hindsight says I should probably have found room for both.
Glad to have the report read through! =) Let me know if you have any other input.
I just started playing this deck since Craig Wescoe got top 8 in Pittsburgh. I was thinking about ad I think I found a good answer to Merfolk and various other damage based strategy. Worship. Merfolk and affinty dont have that much removal, so if we get to cast that we can just win.
Merfolk cant vapor snag all our threats though we have so many of them, and we can remove affinity's infect land with ghost quarter or a path so it seems like if we get to 4 mana worship is pretty good.
Merfolk cant vapor snag all our threats though we have so many of them, and we can remove affinity's infect land with ghost quarter or a path so it seems like if we get to 4 mana worship is pretty good.
The loss to merfolk isn't death by 1000 vapor snags, its death from a single snag when they've beaten you down to 1 life with your active Worship out. Merfolk is a tough deck for bears to beat for a variety of reasons. I've found that blowing up Aether Vial and possibly landing Choke to be the best path to victory. After years of playing Hatebears, Merfolk is prob the deck I least want to see on the other side of the table.
I've been playing Wescoe's list recently and it's a lot of fun. So far I have changed the board a bit to include 1 EE and 1 Creeping Corrosion.
Now on to my question: Has anybody here tried Eight-and-a-half-Tails in this deck before? I imagine it could be quite decent with Vial backup, maybe just as a one-of.
I tried it in mono white DnT as a one-of. It performed to my satisfaction, but most people use that slot for an extra value beater. I'd say it depends on your play style. If you usually stabilize early then hold your hand back, you'll see value. If you favor spilling your hand and CoCo then it's meh. There's arguably better cards, but play what you enjoy playing.
Hey guys, I'm almost done building HB. Just a quick question before I buy the rest of the deck. I see that people are using Collected Company over vial now days. Why I this? I know it's a great engine, but is vial better? I'm asking since that is the only slot I need to buy.
I think Vial and Company comes down to personal preference (and maybe budget). Vial is uncounterable but Company picks up to 2 creatures from the deck. I myself prefer Company for the more creatures.
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Collecting Timbermare, hit me up if you have any for trade
Thanks for the info. I think I will get company since it's cheaper and I can play my anti-artifact sideboard cards without automatically having to remove vials. Just making sure that I as no going to get the bad end of a stick. As a poor college student, I got to spend my money wisely.
Good against countermagic, Liliana -2, and other things
good at advancing an already good board state
great at pulling back from a not so good board state
normally a good top deck later in the game
allows you to dig for sideboard cards / bullets
Obviously its all meta dependent, but my lists typically don't have many ETB effect creatures, so the vial's tricks aren't as good for me as they would be for a more Flickerwisp type list. Overall I would be playing Collected Company instead of Aether Vial right now - you lose some "Mana" advantages but still retain the instant speed interaction. The flexibility that CoCo gives regarding board / hand state as well as the ability to dig for the best bear for the game puts it over the top for me.
There's certainly the Thalia tax to consider but I find Thalia is more of a speed bump than anything that stays on board for very long. Given that, I'd prob slot 2 CoCo in any given list and be pretty happy about it. I would also consider a third in the board against the GBx style attrition decks to pull ahead when we're both hellbent.
That's quite a hefty setup and requirement there, don't think it would add much to the general deck without jumping through hoops. Far better options for mana sinks or 2drops in the deck.
So this deck was an artifact brew powered by isochron scepter + soulfire grandmaster + burn spells like shrapnel blast. Game one he kept a one lander hoping to get there, unfortunately I was on the play and landed a T2 thalia which cut him off from his 1 mana spells and he lost. Game two was close but I got burned out by both shrapnel blasts and galvanic blasts. After seeing the true nature of his deck in game 2 I boarded correctly for things like kor firewalkers + kataki, he starts with landing a boros reckoner which holds back some of my aggression until I land a kor firewalker, at which point I was able to progressively land more and more bears and just lock him out of the game.
2-1
Round 2: Grixis Delver
Game one I was on the play which was huge, I landed a ton of bears and ran his ass over. Game 2 played out quite the same, the problem was that he boarded in a damnation and I ran straight into it and lost. Game 3 was incredibly close, after trading blows back and fourth I had an huge board presence while he had delver + Snaps and he was trying to keep my cryptic'd down so that I couldn't attack, I lost with him at 2 life after he used all the cards in his hand, honestly I made a couple of slight misplays that game, if done differently again perhaps it would have won, but in the end I was still satisfied with the match as a whole.
1-2
Round 3: 4-C Gifts
Game one I use thalia + Brimaz to beat the ***** out of the other guy after pathing the Jace she played. Game two is largely the same except I have arbiter to slow down her mana since so much of her manabase is rooted on fetchlands, she plays liliana and plus 1's which triggers my wilt-leaf liege and she can never stabilize after that point.
2-0
Round 4: Infect
Game one I'm on the play, he kept a hand after mulling to 5 centered around inkmoth nexus, while I was busy playing bears and clobbering him, he eventually sets up a would be kill turn in which I vial in a stillmoon cavalier and pay white to give it flying, he scoops. Game 2 was very close, I saw a glistener elf plus 2 inkmoths, I was at 9 infect with a couple of bears and a spellskite on the field, he played his fourth land and I had a tec edge on the field, for his next time he attacked with his 2 inkmoths, tapping out all of his lands to animate them, I tec edge one and vial in a wingmare to block the other, which makes me think I'm out of the woods, until he plays his third inkmoth in his second main, I draw dead. Game 3 I mulled to 6 with an awkward hand where my only land is sunpetal grove but I have an Aether Vial so I keep it, I start with sunpetal then pass, he glistener elfs, I then play vial then pass, he plays hierarch then some pump spells and puts me to a high amount of infect, I then take my turn, drawing a temple garden, I play it tapped and pass the turn which confuses him, he takes his attack with me at 9 infect and I vial in a voice of resurgence to hopefully block and trade with him, he apostle's blessing's in response, I respond by pathing his elf with my untapped sunpetal grove. After that he doesn't draw any more infect creatures, only hierarchs and he dies.
2-1
Overall record is 3-1, I am very happy with the deck, I feel if I played a bit tighter in round 2 I could have quite possibly gone 4-0 with it. Something I need to change is that the hushwing gryff in the sideboard never came in for any of my games, mind you the twin player in our group did not come to FNMM this week which played a role in that, ultimately though I do have other answers to twin in my list so perhaps I don't need it anyways. Other than that I am happy with the flyers in my deck, they came in against infect and delver and acted as blockers a reasonable amount of the time which I liked. Right now I haven't fully committed to the deck since I don't have any canopies but honestly I'm happy with my manabase the way it is right now so I don't know if I ever will get them outside of a modern masters reprint. In any event if anyone would like to comment on my list feedback is more then welcome.
Congrats on your finish, your list looks nice. Regardless, I have a few suggestions:
-Maybe you could swap 2 Forest, 2 Plains and 4 Sunpetal Grove for 4 Razorverge Thicket and 3 Brushland (one less land, since you are playing Vial)
-Add the 4th Path to Exile! It's one of the best reasons to be playing white in Modern
-I think that you should be playing 4 Loxodon Smiter, it's good against blue decks, against Jund/Junk, dodges Lightning Bolt and it's a reasonable clock against combo.
-You could try some Aven Mindcensor somewhere, they do some work against Infect and Affinity (as you mentioned) besides the obvious matchups like Tron, Scapeshift and Amulet (I really don't know your meta)
I believe WoTC's new policy is to make sure that every color can enjoy the exciting gameplay mechanic of making undercosted dudes and then turning them sideways. Clearly the future of magic.
Quote from "Kakaroto" »
Quote from "Disco Stu" »
Podríamos hacer un topic donde marquemos los peores horrores de ortografía.
Thanks for the advice, I more or less agree with everything you suggested, the only thing I'm not totally sold on is Smiter, I know hes good but he can't block tasigur or angler, whereas mirran crusader can not only block, but with an exalted trigger or two can do huge damage out of nowhere, I like the volatility that double strike brings, not to mention theres only a couple people in my meta playing lily so it wouldn't trigger often, mind you the cant be countered clause is relevant to my meta so I'll keep it in mind. Thanks!
I concur, Mirran Crusader is really good doing what you said. Against Jund/Junk if they don't have Bolt/Path is usually game, and Abzan Company has even more troubles against it. I have 2 and sometimes 3 in the board, depending of the day. On the other hand, Smiter doesn't excel in any matchup, but it's really good overall. It's not as brutal as Crusader vs BGx, but it's not a 'dead draw' vs Twin (for example). Therefore, I prefer using overall good cards in the maindeck and trump cards with high impact in the SB (Like Firewalker against Burn, Crusader against BGx, Choke against blue decks, Stony Silence against Affinity, etc). Obv, if some decks or cards are prevalent in a certain metagame, maindecking some cards can be a good idea (usualy, creatures that can still attack in matchups where they don't do anything relevant).
I believe WoTC's new policy is to make sure that every color can enjoy the exciting gameplay mechanic of making undercosted dudes and then turning them sideways. Clearly the future of magic.
Quote from "Kakaroto" »
Quote from "Disco Stu" »
Podríamos hacer un topic donde marquemos los peores horrores de ortografía.
So I've been playing the deck online and I'm a huge fan of 4x Kitchen Finks. It wrecks Burn and is very good against Grixis Twin, Jund, and Grixis Control.
Too fragile for too little effect. Slots are better used for higher impact cards.
Thanks for the report!
He probably put it in there to shrink goyfs and dodge the second wave of souls. Since it's Lil kid junk, there could also potentially be Finks to chump block aggro strategies or Knight of the Reliquary to lay the beats; RIP handles that. Access to G/W sideboard cards is one of my fave reasons for this deck. The hate is real lol.
@CosmoKramer, Pretty much what jonathanveedot mentioned. Also, he had four voice of resurgence in the main-deck. I debated between a second explosives (With the risk that I can have it as a dead draw vs a field of rhino/Goyf/Liege) or to go with RiP and hope to gain a cards worth of advantage of it after it lands.
That was my logic at the time but definitely looking back should have at least taken both explosives. Only thing I can remember is that after the first game I was still worried about the Rhino/Goyf so I went with RiP. Ended up being the vagaries of magic that gave him the triple souls and no individual beater. Hindsight says I should probably have found room for both.
Glad to have the report read through! =) Let me know if you have any other input.
GUGEdric, Spymaster of Trest - Elfball
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic- Doomsday!
RWUEphara, God of the Polis - Blink + Control
GBGGlissa, the Traitor - Stax & Lands
URGMaelstrom Wanderer - Goodstuff RUG
RGWMayael the Anima - Timmy
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher - The One Hit Wonder
RGWMarath, Will of the Wild - Old-school Enchantress Hate
RWRAurelia, the Warleader - Equipment Aggro
GGGReki, the History of Kamigawa - Legends + Banding
UBRSedris, the Traitor King - Creatures with : Ability
BUBPhenax, God of Deception - Mill
*Sidenote, I specifically excluded infinite combos from all these decks with the exception of Marath and the squirrel nest + Earthcraft combo.
Looking for something Aggressive in modern? Try - BR Aggro
The loss to merfolk isn't death by 1000 vapor snags, its death from a single snag when they've beaten you down to 1 life with your active Worship out. Merfolk is a tough deck for bears to beat for a variety of reasons. I've found that blowing up Aether Vial and possibly landing Choke to be the best path to victory. After years of playing Hatebears, Merfolk is prob the deck I least want to see on the other side of the table.
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=12976&writer=Craig Wescoe
I tried it in mono white DnT as a one-of. It performed to my satisfaction, but most people use that slot for an extra value beater. I'd say it depends on your play style. If you usually stabilize early then hold your hand back, you'll see value. If you favor spilling your hand and CoCo then it's meh. There's arguably better cards, but play what you enjoy playing.
Aether Vial
Collected Company
Obviously its all meta dependent, but my lists typically don't have many ETB effect creatures, so the vial's tricks aren't as good for me as they would be for a more Flickerwisp type list. Overall I would be playing Collected Company instead of Aether Vial right now - you lose some "Mana" advantages but still retain the instant speed interaction. The flexibility that CoCo gives regarding board / hand state as well as the ability to dig for the best bear for the game puts it over the top for me.
There's certainly the Thalia tax to consider but I find Thalia is more of a speed bump than anything that stays on board for very long. Given that, I'd prob slot 2 CoCo in any given list and be pretty happy about it. I would also consider a third in the board against the GBx style attrition decks to pull ahead when we're both hellbent.
4 Sunpetal Grove
2 Stirring Wildwood
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Tectonic Edge
4 Plains
4 Forest
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Voice of Resurgence
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Loxodon Smiter
1 Stillmoon Cavalier
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Vryn Wingmare
1 Kitchen Finks
4 AEther Vial
1 Spellskite
1 Vryn Wingmare
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Kor Firewalker
1 Stony Silence
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Hushwing Gryff
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Fiendslayer Paladin
1 Choke
Round 1: Artifact-Burn Brew
So this deck was an artifact brew powered by isochron scepter + soulfire grandmaster + burn spells like shrapnel blast. Game one he kept a one lander hoping to get there, unfortunately I was on the play and landed a T2 thalia which cut him off from his 1 mana spells and he lost. Game two was close but I got burned out by both shrapnel blasts and galvanic blasts. After seeing the true nature of his deck in game 2 I boarded correctly for things like kor firewalkers + kataki, he starts with landing a boros reckoner which holds back some of my aggression until I land a kor firewalker, at which point I was able to progressively land more and more bears and just lock him out of the game.
2-1
Round 2: Grixis Delver
Game one I was on the play which was huge, I landed a ton of bears and ran his ass over. Game 2 played out quite the same, the problem was that he boarded in a damnation and I ran straight into it and lost. Game 3 was incredibly close, after trading blows back and fourth I had an huge board presence while he had delver + Snaps and he was trying to keep my cryptic'd down so that I couldn't attack, I lost with him at 2 life after he used all the cards in his hand, honestly I made a couple of slight misplays that game, if done differently again perhaps it would have won, but in the end I was still satisfied with the match as a whole.
1-2
Round 3: 4-C Gifts
Game one I use thalia + Brimaz to beat the ***** out of the other guy after pathing the Jace she played. Game two is largely the same except I have arbiter to slow down her mana since so much of her manabase is rooted on fetchlands, she plays liliana and plus 1's which triggers my wilt-leaf liege and she can never stabilize after that point.
2-0
Round 4: Infect
Game one I'm on the play, he kept a hand after mulling to 5 centered around inkmoth nexus, while I was busy playing bears and clobbering him, he eventually sets up a would be kill turn in which I vial in a stillmoon cavalier and pay white to give it flying, he scoops. Game 2 was very close, I saw a glistener elf plus 2 inkmoths, I was at 9 infect with a couple of bears and a spellskite on the field, he played his fourth land and I had a tec edge on the field, for his next time he attacked with his 2 inkmoths, tapping out all of his lands to animate them, I tec edge one and vial in a wingmare to block the other, which makes me think I'm out of the woods, until he plays his third inkmoth in his second main, I draw dead. Game 3 I mulled to 6 with an awkward hand where my only land is sunpetal grove but I have an Aether Vial so I keep it, I start with sunpetal then pass, he glistener elfs, I then play vial then pass, he plays hierarch then some pump spells and puts me to a high amount of infect, I then take my turn, drawing a temple garden, I play it tapped and pass the turn which confuses him, he takes his attack with me at 9 infect and I vial in a voice of resurgence to hopefully block and trade with him, he apostle's blessing's in response, I respond by pathing his elf with my untapped sunpetal grove. After that he doesn't draw any more infect creatures, only hierarchs and he dies.
2-1
Overall record is 3-1, I am very happy with the deck, I feel if I played a bit tighter in round 2 I could have quite possibly gone 4-0 with it. Something I need to change is that the hushwing gryff in the sideboard never came in for any of my games, mind you the twin player in our group did not come to FNMM this week which played a role in that, ultimately though I do have other answers to twin in my list so perhaps I don't need it anyways. Other than that I am happy with the flyers in my deck, they came in against infect and delver and acted as blockers a reasonable amount of the time which I liked. Right now I haven't fully committed to the deck since I don't have any canopies but honestly I'm happy with my manabase the way it is right now so I don't know if I ever will get them outside of a modern masters reprint. In any event if anyone would like to comment on my list feedback is more then welcome.
-Maybe you could swap 2 Forest, 2 Plains and 4 Sunpetal Grove for 4 Razorverge Thicket and 3 Brushland (one less land, since you are playing Vial)
-Add the 4th Path to Exile! It's one of the best reasons to be playing white in Modern
-I think that you should be playing 4 Loxodon Smiter, it's good against blue decks, against Jund/Junk, dodges Lightning Bolt and it's a reasonable clock against combo.
-You could try some Aven Mindcensor somewhere, they do some work against Infect and Affinity (as you mentioned) besides the obvious matchups like Tron, Scapeshift and Amulet (I really don't know your meta)
@Jendo87: Nice work!
Anyway, thanks for the reply!
I like this card a lot.
EDH - GU Kruphix, God of Horizons, WB Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts, GUR Surrak Dragonclaw, WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores, R Purphoros, God of the Forge, RW Archangel Avacyn