Vial is pretty much only good vs the control decks, and we have other cards that are also good vs them. To me it was always mana dork vs Vial. Even if I played both, I would sometimes have both in my opening hand and had to make the decision for one or the other. I found that playing a dork to ramp into a 3 drop on turn 2 is better than playing vial to pump out a 2 drop on turn 3. Being aggressive can put our opponents on their heels before they get a chance to really get going. Sometimes that quick opening would close out games before they get finished, and that is usually better than playing a grindy game with Vial. We also have Loxodon Smiter and Aven Mindcensor to play around counter magic, and we can run Thrun, the Last Troll and Restoration Angel as well if we want to.
This is exactly waht I was looking for. Thanks!
Your argument makes a lot of sense as well. I will go vial-less.
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EDH RGOmnath, Locus of ManaRG URThe Locust godUR
Modern UWMiraclesUW
Legacy BGIce Station Zebra (Living Fins)BG UBRGrixis ControlUBR RGLandsRG
I started to get into modern 6 or so months ago, started with GW hatebears, bought cards to also give D&T a go (W or Wg), then
when the Khans fetches came out started to move toward Pod. Just finished my Pod deck and played it twice before the ban. So now
I'm following what everyone is doing to recover from this. My thought is to go back to Hate Bears but felt, its needs a little
help, so really interested in GWb (for thoughtseize and Abrupt Decay) (or maybe try a goyfless, bobless, liliana less
Junk??). So I'm interested in people's experiences with B mana with still keeping ghost quarter/tech edge. I guess we can abandon the land Hate (I think DOL posted a list like this). If we abandon the Land hate, I think we keep Aven Mindcensor to hate on other players fetching,
but lose Leonin, and add fetches/shock lands to help with the mana. Do folks think a Hatebears without land hate viable?
I started down this path (my old list is a couple pages back). I love it. What I'm running now is like what would happen if GW Hatebears and Junk had a baby together. I kept a lot of the hate package (Voice, Scooze, Mindcensor, Smiter), but the addition of black gives me much better removal options, Siege Rhino, hand disruption, and Liliana of the Veil. I did have to abandon the Ghost Quarters, but kept a maindeck Tec Edge and squeezed in a Gavony Township, like DOL suggests. I'll post/PM my list if anyone's interested, but I don't want to go off topic, as I'm not sure my deck qualifies as Hatebears anymore.
I've been doing some online testing of my Bant Hatebears deck, and I have to say I am really impressed. The blowout potential is here, and it attacks from a surprising number of angles
Decks like junk, tron and scapeshift fold to it pretty hard. Faster strategies like burn, zoo, affinity and splinter twin can sometimes get in under the hate, but the deck features incredible post-board matchups. Meddling mage is allstar in so many situations.
Geist is another all-star: whether its the lands or exalted or removal, he gets through pretty often and just ends games. Venser and mystic snake play a vital role of disrupting the mid/late game. They answer a whole host of problems and are great value with resto.
I would be a little uncomfortable running 6 colorless sources with Sigarda and Liege. I'm also not a fan of Forge-Tender, but I suppose Scapeshift running Firespout and Affinity running Whipflare one could make the argument for BFT. I've never played Brimaz, but maybe I will have to give him a shot.
Figured id give a quick update about the deck, ran it as junk 2 weeks ago ended up going 2-2 the matchups were alright but felt like it needed some work so im going to go with this version on friday and continue exploring junk(could swap back to gw if its just not worth it).
Mostly this is still under consideration. The pieces seem strong in a lot of match ups but the meta is too unknown to know if the cards I am playing are affective enough. I decided to try and play Kitchen Finks with all the attrition matchups and since that means more shocks are fine. Still split between Restoration Angel and Wilt-Leaf liege.
I've been messing around with a list like this minus the mindcensors/arbiters and land hate, plus fetches, more canopies, some random utility lands, and knights. My only issue is I'm not sure what I should have in the 2 drop slot.
I would be a little uncomfortable running 6 colorless sources with Sigarda and Liege. I'm also not a fan of Forge-Tender, but I suppose Scapeshift running Firespout and Affinity running Whipflare one could make the argument for BFT. I've never played Brimaz, but maybe I will have to give him a shot.
I moved my Mindcensors to the sb and put Brimaz in that place. I wouldn't do that in a Scapeshift and Tron meta, but the card didn't feel like it was pulling enough weight without playing pod half of every tournament. Brimaz does a lot of work if you can land him T2. Doesn't die to bolt, which is 80% the reason I went to him. And yeah the 6 colorless lands seems bad, I run 5 and still get color screwed more than I like.
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GWIf it doesn't have a toolbox I don't want anything to do with itGW
I would be a little uncomfortable running 6 colorless sources with Sigarda and Liege. I'm also not a fan of Forge-Tender, but I suppose Scapeshift running Firespout and Affinity running Whipflare one could make the argument for BFT. I've never played Brimaz, but maybe I will have to give him a shot.
Round 1 – Loss vs. Affinity (David Long also top 8’d)
Game 1, he turn 2 Ensouls a vault scourge. On T3 when I destroy it with Pridemage, I’m too far behind to race.
Game 2, I have a T2 Stony Silence to slow him down. I end up having to keep up Wildwood mana because he has 3 fliers, while I swing for 2 a turn. Eventually I draw enough enough mana to deploy a 2nd threat and win.
Game 3, I have a T2 Stony Silence but he plays a back to nature. We have a grindy game where I draw a few pieces of removal. I have Liege + Smiter, while he has 2 etched champions, one with ravager counters. We are both at about 6 when I top deck a Fracturing Gust and play it to swing through for lethal. However, He has a Spell Pierce, and I lose the game. Instead, I could have activated Wildwood that turn to swing for lethal, but I thought playing around Galvanic Blast was safer.
Round 2 – Win vs. R/B Burn with Tombstalkers
Game 1, T2 Thalia into T3 Brimaz is very difficult for him to deal with.
Game 2, Baneslayer>2xTombstalker.
Round 3 – Win vs. R/W Burn
Game 1, he has a T1 Goblin Guide that gets in for 4 damage, but I have T1 Hierarch and T2 Voice. He decides he wants to trade guide for Voice, and I oblige. The board advantage from the token + exalted is enough to race him.
Game 2, He bolts my T2 Thalia and beats me in a race.
Game 3, Again, Voice is amazing. And Brimaz is a big beat stick whose damage output grows each turn.
Round 4 – Win vs. Splinter Twin
Game 1, I have T1 Hierarch, He counters T2 Voice. I play a T3 Thrun into open blue mana. He has no answer to Thrun, and I win. The only other card I saw was a Clique, so I mistakenly assume I am playing Blue Moon, and bring in Elspeth, Teeg and BFTs, leaving out my Dismember, and taking out a Path.
Game 2, Play the mana destruction game. T1 Hierarch into T2 Arbiter + GQ. I see a Deceiver Exarch and end up succesfully keeping off casting twin with Thalias and Tectonic Edges until I swing through with a massive voice token with flying from Elspeth.
Round 5 - Win vs. Scapeshift
Game 1, I draw three Arbiters to slow down his search, I eventually nickel and dime him to death.
Game 2, I draw all three of my Mindcensors, and eliminate all my opponents green mana sources but 1. He plays well to his outs and top decks a forest to cast scapeshift a turn before I could kill him.
Game 3, my opponent ramps nicely and plays an Inferno Titan on T4 that kills two of my creatures. On my turn I am able to Path the Titan, play a Teeg and a Forge-Tender to protect the Teeg. BFT eats a Pyroclasm, but Teeg sticks to win the game.
Round 6 - Win vs. Tron
I mull to 6 in G1 and G3. Mull to 5 G2.
Game 1, Arbiters and GQ are too much and my opponent never assembles Tron.
Game 2, my opponent has a natural T3 Tron and plays Wurmcoil. I path, but he follows with Karn and soon overwhelms me.
Game 3, I have an Arbiter on the field and y opponent is at 3 mana with 2 pieces of Tron. I am leaving up Tectonic Edge mana for 2 turns, he eventually plays GQ as a 4th land and immediately destroys my Tec Edge. He follows with a map and I have a 2nd arbiter to stop him from using it. I'm able to finish him off before he assembles Tron.
Round 7 - Win vs. Merfolk
Game 1, we both Mulligan to 6, and have an awkward game of flooding. My top decks end up being stronger than his and I am able to sacrifice Horizon Canopies to get to some action and win.
Game 2, I have a T2 Choke, but he has vial in play. This ends up being an excellent back and forth game where I'm forced strange plays like Ghost Quartering my own land with a spreading seas on it to be able to block and use colored mana. I eventually win by forcing chump block when I swing with a Smiter and 4 exalted triggers.
Round 8 - Win vs. Blue Moon?
I got paired down this round vs a X-1-1 and had to play it out.
Game 1, I draw the nut. T1 Hierarch, T2 Smiter, T3 Liege, T4 Sigarda, beat face.
Game 2, my opponent kills my T1 mana dork and I am terrified of Bloodmoon. my opponent only leaves 1 mana up on T3 to cast Spreading Seas and I jam a Choke and ride it to victory.
I place 3rd in the Swiss.
Quarterfinals - Win vs. Zoo brew
To preface, this was a sweet list, check it out on the SCG site.. It was horrifying to play against. Kind of felt like playing against infect.
Game 1 - He has T1 Wild Nacatl, T2 Goblin Guide. I have a good start of Hierarch, into Smiter + 2x Arbiter. But he ends up sneaking in for lethal with a Become Immense.
Game 2 - We race, But a T3 Wilt-Leaf gives me the push I need to be quicker. Brimaz making tokens to step in front of his attackers every turn is great.
Game 3 - He has a T1 Swiftspear, I T1 Sunlance. He has a T2 Nactl, I T2 Path. He plays a Goblin Guide that he rides for a long time with pumps. But it draws me 2-3 lands, and the advantage becomes large when he can't find another creature. I eventually assemble enough creatures to have a blocker every turn and attack for lethal.
Semifinals - Win vs Jeskai Tempo
Game 1 - Playing a T2 Smiter through Remand mana is just about the biggest perk of this deck. That tempo advantage combined with Voice forcing him to play at Sorcery speed allowed me to race his threats.
Game 2 - My opponent is stuck on 3 mana and Thalia is a house. My opponent plays a Young Pyromancer and I Path since an unanswered Pyromancer is one of the hardest things for this deck to deal with. I'm able to Tec edge to put him back at 3 lands and beat him before he draws a fourth.
Finals - Loss vs. Amulet Combo
Game 1, my opponent puts me on tilt with his super fast play style and missed triggers. I'm flustered from being in the spotlight and prematurely scoop.
Game 2, I mull to five, but find a keep-able hand. I have double Hierarch and Arbiter to slow his search and swing for 4 a turn, but he eventually EE's for 2, killing the Arbiter. I top-deck a Sigarda and fly over for 7 twice to win.
Game 3, my opponent has a T1 Spirit Guide, Amulet, bounce land, Summer Bloom, PrimeTime attack for 8. I have a path and use it on his T2. However, has another Primeval Titan that he gives Double strike to attack for 16 and kills me on T2.
Card Choices:
2x Brimaz is amazing in any match-up where you are racing, which is a large chunk of the format right now. His damage quickly grows faster than Smiter's whenyour opponent is not blocking. And having vigilance tokens to chump on the swing back should not be overlooked.
4x Loxodon Smiter. Best card in the deck (besides Hierarch). There are so many decks that leave counter-magic up T2 and T3, and being able to walk through it is a luxury. Smiter is also great against Liliana decks where we need all the help we can get.
2x Scooze, 2x Pridemage. These are both great cards, but I don't like overdoing either. I like having two in the main-deck each so I dont't have to side additional graveyard or enchantment hate (besides gust).
3x Voice. Voice is a good card in almost every matchup, he is one of the few cards I never side out. This is something I may consider a 4 of in the future especially if I am playing Wilt-Leafs.
2x Wilt Leaf Liege. I feel like most matches are a race, and having a trump that your opponents don't see coming when they are trying to leave up blockers is great.
1x Thrun, Sigarda, Baneslayer. These higher end cards are extremely match dependent, and end up being sided out a lot. the Thrun and Sigarda are a hedge to the Rock decks that I consider our worst match-up (besides maybe affinity).
2x Tectonic Edge. I like having the 6 land destruction cards. In some matches where attacking their mana is the best option or an opponent is stumbling, having two LD cards is so much stronger than just one. I occasionally have to mulligan a hand from lack of colored mana, but sometimes screwing your opponent is good enough. There is always the last resort of GQ'ing your own Tectonic Edge to get a basic. The play results in the same amount of mana for the turn, turning a colorless into a color.
Sideboard.
This is the first time I played with BFT over Firewalkers, but I think I like them more. BFT can protect your team against board wipes, and protect key bears (Thalia vs Burn, Teeg vs Combo).
2x Stony Silence, 1x Creeping Corrosion, 1x Fracturing Gust. I wouldn't play less Affinity hate than I am now, the matchup is just tough. The SS's are also great against Tron and Ad Nauseum. I'm running the 1 Gust as a catch-all and an out against Boggles.
2x Mirran Crusader. We really need help against The Rock/Abzan. I haven't played against it in some time, but I wouldn't hedge here.
I think Elspeth was my worst card in the deck this week and I would replace it in the Board with a second Teeg. He is a versatile threat, especially with the rise of Amulet combo, and the prominence of Scapeshift and Splinter Twin. Teeg is even better when you are running BFT and Voice.
Overall, I was very happy with the deck. I believe it is extremely consistent against any archetype. There are so many different ways you can tune for the meta, and different ways to attack every match up.
Congrats balrog on the 2nd place finish! I've always thought hatebears was viable with a good pilot and you've proven that
I haven't tried Brimaz myself but I did play against it in a dead guy ale list last week and you're right about the vigilance tokens -- they are very good chump blockers that make combat terrible for anything without trample. I've also gotten blown out by sideboard Hibernations so a couple more white creatures wouldn't hurt. I would cut 4x qasali pridemage down to 2x just like you but I'm afraid I will miss the exalted triggers too much, but it would make the deck more resilient to pyroclasm/anger.
I never liked Teeg because of how narrow and fragile it seemed but with BFT instead of firewalkers you might be right that he's worth playing. The main decks that Teeg is good against won't have a way to kill it (red sweepers or wraths).
At this point in the meta I think hushwing gryff is better than mindcensor. Without pod, mindcensors have been pretty subpar in my opinion and not even that great against scapeshift as they usually have a way to deal with it. Using your g2 vs scapeshift as an example, you drew all 3 mindcensors and it was close enough that they were able to top deck a win.
@Xardian7 I'd be uncomfortable running 6 fetches with arbiters. Siege rhino is good but if you may want to just play a Junk deck if you're going to splash black with fetches. 9 black sources doesn't seem enough imo.
I think Wilt-Leaf Liege is exactly where we want to be right now. Before the recent bans we had trouble attacking through the clogged board states of Pod and U/R Delver Pyromancer tokens. But now that both of those decks are gone, we can dominate any match-up on the ground. With Liege, bigger is better, and we can race combo with only light hate. Liege also acts as an anthem to protect our bears from pyroclasm and anger, and is a bullet against Liliana. When you are running multiple cards with G/W mana costs, or token makers (Brimaz), Liege is amazing. The other 4-drops available to us now don't seem great. I've tested Resto Angel, Elspeth and Swords, but they seem lackluster. We don't have any value to gain from Resto and the format is too diverse for a single sword to dominate main deck.
I agree that Mind Censors aren't great right now, but in past testing with Hushwing I have been unimpressed. The main decks that run ETB creatures (Snap Caster, Resto, Rhino) have a large amount of removal to kill hushwing. It often feels like a tempo loss to pay 3 mana for the Gryff, and then have him get bolted.
Teeg on the other hand seems like a great place to be. I bring him in in a lot of matchups:
Scapeshift - Scapeshift, Cryptic
Amulet Combo - Hive Mind
Splinter Twin - Splinter Twin, Cryptic
Ad Nauseum - Ad Nauseum
White Control Variants - Wrath, Verdict, Planeswalkers, Sphinx's Rev, Batterskull
R/G Tron - Karn, O-Stone, Ugin, All is Dust
U/W Tron & Gifts - Gifts Ungiven, Unburial Rights
Storm - Past in Flames, Empty the Warrens
Spaghetti and Meatballs - Through the Breach, Scapeshift
Living Death - Living Death
Grislebrand Decks - Through the Breach, Fury of the Horde
I sometimes bring him in against infect to stop Become Immense. Most of these decks also run some form of removal/sweeper, maybe its time to run Mark of Asylum in the Board over BFT/Firewalker?
If you want leyline side, you want 4 leyline side to increase chances of drawing it in your opening and subsequent mulligans. What would we need it against? It is good against burn, 8 Rack, Ad Nauseam, and storm. Are we having so much trouble against these decks that we want to dedicate 4 sideboard slots to them? I don't feel like we need to. Our mainboard can already deal with a lot of their threats, and a couple sideboard slots already are equipped to deal with these, but cover a greater range of decks. (Kor firewalker against burn, delver, uwr; artifact destruction against 8 rack that we have for affinity; graveyard hate for storm that also hits other gy decks, etc.) Thalia also is great against all of these.
Usually a lurker on this thread but I thought I would point out that leyline does not actually help versus ad-Naus post side since they generally side their answer to it into the deck if there is any possibility of you having it.
If ad-Naus ever becomes something that specific side board slots need to be dedicated to I recommend eidolon of rhetoric and the artifact equivalent instead.
Once my Voices arrive they will replace the Gaddock Teeg and Sigarda. There were only 3 matches this time but it was good to get a feel for how to play the deck.
Round 1 (2-0)
I didnt get to see much of what his deck did but I did see Lotus Cobra, Dragonmaster Outcast, and Thundermaw Hellkite come out on his side.
Round 2 (Twin, 2-0)
He burns and Snapcasters my Thalias and Pridemage, but I manage to stick Scooze on the field and feed every creature in the graves to him and Path his Pestermite before he can cast Twin. 2nd game he gets down an early Blood Moon but cant draw a Pestermite or Exarch and I eventually take him down.
Round 3 (Jund, 0-2)
I got really unlucky with draws the entire first game. Decent opening hand, then drew every 4 cost card in my deck while he went triple Goyf and made me discard any playable cards I had. Second game I side in 3 Mirran Crusaders but fail to see a single one or Path to Exile to deal with his Olivia and he ends up stealing every creature I have.
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Collecting Timbermare, hit me up if you have any for trade
I'm probably going to end up building this because I'm pretty sure I'm as far as I can go with infect. I am wondering though, how does this deck do vs american control? the big guys at my FNM tend to play it so as infect its pretty much a 0-2 for me.
I'm probably going to end up building this because I'm pretty sure I'm as far as I can go with infect. I am wondering though, how does this deck do vs american control? the big guys at my FNM tend to play it so as infect its pretty much a 0-2 for me.
It tends to be a very good deck against jeskai control. Voices are a major hassle for them. Smithers are a big cheap threat that they can't keep from hitting the field. Best of all, if you play a Thrun it is usually just game over for them.
yesterday I saw in the feature match 4 an interesting version of GWB hatebears played by jon stern .. someone has the exact decklist?
i saw some cards from the coverage but not the exactly number.
thanks
Jacob Wilson is on it too. It's a deck that probably a lot of GW Hatebears players have toyed with building, it's great to see people take it to a PT.
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EDH: GWR Mayael | Rhys | Sisay | Ezuri | Titania
GWIf it doesn't have a toolbox I don't want anything to do with itGW
What does everyone think of the haterhino list? I wasn't able to see any games so far but I did see the list and it looks interesting.
I'm in love. I just need to order a few lands and I'm set. I'd want to fit in abrupt decay and scavenging ooze, but I'm most likely going to order the remaining cards for it today and take it to the next fnm.
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This is exactly waht I was looking for. Thanks!
Your argument makes a lot of sense as well. I will go vial-less.
RGOmnath, Locus of ManaRG
URThe Locust godUR
Modern
UWMiraclesUW
Legacy
BGIce Station Zebra (Living Fins)BG
UBRGrixis ControlUBR
RGLandsRG
I started down this path (my old list is a couple pages back). I love it. What I'm running now is like what would happen if GW Hatebears and Junk had a baby together. I kept a lot of the hate package (Voice, Scooze, Mindcensor, Smiter), but the addition of black gives me much better removal options, Siege Rhino, hand disruption, and Liliana of the Veil. I did have to abandon the Ghost Quarters, but kept a maindeck Tec Edge and squeezed in a Gavony Township, like DOL suggests. I'll post/PM my list if anyone's interested, but I don't want to go off topic, as I'm not sure my deck qualifies as Hatebears anymore.
Modern: GW Hatebears/midrange, WGU Knightfall/evolution midrange stuff
Standard: nope
Legacy: W Death & Taxes
EDH (not Commander!): W Avacyn, Angel of Hope, GR Ruric Thar, the Unbowed, WGB Anafenza, the Foremost, WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator
3 Judge's Familiar
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Scavenging ooze
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Loxodon smiter
3 Aven Mindcensor
2 Restoration Angel
2 Mystic Snake
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
4 Path to Exile
4 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Temple Garden
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Gavony Township
3 Meddling mage
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Spellskite
2 Obstinate Baloth
2 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 scavenging ooze
1 ghost quarter
Decks like junk, tron and scapeshift fold to it pretty hard. Faster strategies like burn, zoo, affinity and splinter twin can sometimes get in under the hate, but the deck features incredible post-board matchups. Meddling mage is allstar in so many situations.
Geist is another all-star: whether its the lands or exalted or removal, he gets through pretty often and just ends games. Venser and mystic snake play a vital role of disrupting the mid/late game. They answer a whole host of problems and are great value with resto.
I'd encourage others to give it a try. Much fun
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
Your deck won't be as good but it'll be playable. The exalted triggers make a huge difference.
Pretty standard list. Looks solid.
3 Aven Mindcensor
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Voice of Resurgence
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Forest
2 Plains
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Temple Garden
Spells (4)
4 Path to Exile
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Choke
2 Stony Silence
1 Dismember
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Sunlance
I would be a little uncomfortable running 6 colorless sources with Sigarda and Liege. I'm also not a fan of Forge-Tender, but I suppose Scapeshift running Firespout and Affinity running Whipflare one could make the argument for BFT. I've never played Brimaz, but maybe I will have to give him a shot.
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
I've been messing around with a list like this minus the mindcensors/arbiters and land hate, plus fetches, more canopies, some random utility lands, and knights. My only issue is I'm not sure what I should have in the 2 drop slot.
Legacy: Maverick
I moved my Mindcensors to the sb and put Brimaz in that place. I wouldn't do that in a Scapeshift and Tron meta, but the card didn't feel like it was pulling enough weight without playing pod half of every tournament. Brimaz does a lot of work if you can land him T2. Doesn't die to bolt, which is 80% the reason I went to him. And yeah the 6 colorless lands seems bad, I run 5 and still get color screwed more than I like.
GW GW Hatebears |GWB Counters Company | GWU Bant Knightfall GW Value Town
Legacy:
GWB Maverick
EDH:
GWR Mayael | Rhys | Sisay | Ezuri | Titania
GWIf it doesn't have a toolbox I don't want anything to do with itGW
Round 1 – Loss vs. Affinity (David Long also top 8’d)
Game 1, he turn 2 Ensouls a vault scourge. On T3 when I destroy it with Pridemage, I’m too far behind to race.
Game 2, I have a T2 Stony Silence to slow him down. I end up having to keep up Wildwood mana because he has 3 fliers, while I swing for 2 a turn. Eventually I draw enough enough mana to deploy a 2nd threat and win.
Game 3, I have a T2 Stony Silence but he plays a back to nature. We have a grindy game where I draw a few pieces of removal. I have Liege + Smiter, while he has 2 etched champions, one with ravager counters. We are both at about 6 when I top deck a Fracturing Gust and play it to swing through for lethal. However, He has a Spell Pierce, and I lose the game. Instead, I could have activated Wildwood that turn to swing for lethal, but I thought playing around Galvanic Blast was safer.
Round 2 – Win vs. R/B Burn with Tombstalkers
Game 1, T2 Thalia into T3 Brimaz is very difficult for him to deal with.
Game 2, Baneslayer>2xTombstalker.
Round 3 – Win vs. R/W Burn
Game 1, he has a T1 Goblin Guide that gets in for 4 damage, but I have T1 Hierarch and T2 Voice. He decides he wants to trade guide for Voice, and I oblige. The board advantage from the token + exalted is enough to race him.
Game 2, He bolts my T2 Thalia and beats me in a race.
Game 3, Again, Voice is amazing. And Brimaz is a big beat stick whose damage output grows each turn.
Round 4 – Win vs. Splinter Twin
Game 1, I have T1 Hierarch, He counters T2 Voice. I play a T3 Thrun into open blue mana. He has no answer to Thrun, and I win. The only other card I saw was a Clique, so I mistakenly assume I am playing Blue Moon, and bring in Elspeth, Teeg and BFTs, leaving out my Dismember, and taking out a Path.
Game 2, Play the mana destruction game. T1 Hierarch into T2 Arbiter + GQ. I see a Deceiver Exarch and end up succesfully keeping off casting twin with Thalias and Tectonic Edges until I swing through with a massive voice token with flying from Elspeth.
Round 5 - Win vs. Scapeshift
Game 1, I draw three Arbiters to slow down his search, I eventually nickel and dime him to death.
Game 2, I draw all three of my Mindcensors, and eliminate all my opponents green mana sources but 1. He plays well to his outs and top decks a forest to cast scapeshift a turn before I could kill him.
Game 3, my opponent ramps nicely and plays an Inferno Titan on T4 that kills two of my creatures. On my turn I am able to Path the Titan, play a Teeg and a Forge-Tender to protect the Teeg. BFT eats a Pyroclasm, but Teeg sticks to win the game.
Round 6 - Win vs. Tron
I mull to 6 in G1 and G3. Mull to 5 G2.
Game 1, Arbiters and GQ are too much and my opponent never assembles Tron.
Game 2, my opponent has a natural T3 Tron and plays Wurmcoil. I path, but he follows with Karn and soon overwhelms me.
Game 3, I have an Arbiter on the field and y opponent is at 3 mana with 2 pieces of Tron. I am leaving up Tectonic Edge mana for 2 turns, he eventually plays GQ as a 4th land and immediately destroys my Tec Edge. He follows with a map and I have a 2nd arbiter to stop him from using it. I'm able to finish him off before he assembles Tron.
Round 7 - Win vs. Merfolk
Game 1, we both Mulligan to 6, and have an awkward game of flooding. My top decks end up being stronger than his and I am able to sacrifice Horizon Canopies to get to some action and win.
Game 2, I have a T2 Choke, but he has vial in play. This ends up being an excellent back and forth game where I'm forced strange plays like Ghost Quartering my own land with a spreading seas on it to be able to block and use colored mana. I eventually win by forcing chump block when I swing with a Smiter and 4 exalted triggers.
Round 8 - Win vs. Blue Moon?
I got paired down this round vs a X-1-1 and had to play it out.
Game 1, I draw the nut. T1 Hierarch, T2 Smiter, T3 Liege, T4 Sigarda, beat face.
Game 2, my opponent kills my T1 mana dork and I am terrified of Bloodmoon. my opponent only leaves 1 mana up on T3 to cast Spreading Seas and I jam a Choke and ride it to victory.
I place 3rd in the Swiss.
Quarterfinals - Win vs. Zoo brew
To preface, this was a sweet list, check it out on the SCG site.. It was horrifying to play against. Kind of felt like playing against infect.
Game 1 - He has T1 Wild Nacatl, T2 Goblin Guide. I have a good start of Hierarch, into Smiter + 2x Arbiter. But he ends up sneaking in for lethal with a Become Immense.
Game 2 - We race, But a T3 Wilt-Leaf gives me the push I need to be quicker. Brimaz making tokens to step in front of his attackers every turn is great.
Game 3 - He has a T1 Swiftspear, I T1 Sunlance. He has a T2 Nactl, I T2 Path. He plays a Goblin Guide that he rides for a long time with pumps. But it draws me 2-3 lands, and the advantage becomes large when he can't find another creature. I eventually assemble enough creatures to have a blocker every turn and attack for lethal.
Semifinals - Win vs Jeskai Tempo
Game 1 - Playing a T2 Smiter through Remand mana is just about the biggest perk of this deck. That tempo advantage combined with Voice forcing him to play at Sorcery speed allowed me to race his threats.
Game 2 - My opponent is stuck on 3 mana and Thalia is a house. My opponent plays a Young Pyromancer and I Path since an unanswered Pyromancer is one of the hardest things for this deck to deal with. I'm able to Tec edge to put him back at 3 lands and beat him before he draws a fourth.
Finals - Loss vs. Amulet Combo
Game 1, my opponent puts me on tilt with his super fast play style and missed triggers. I'm flustered from being in the spotlight and prematurely scoop.
Game 2, I mull to five, but find a keep-able hand. I have double Hierarch and Arbiter to slow his search and swing for 4 a turn, but he eventually EE's for 2, killing the Arbiter. I top-deck a Sigarda and fly over for 7 twice to win.
Game 3, my opponent has a T1 Spirit Guide, Amulet, bounce land, Summer Bloom, PrimeTime attack for 8. I have a path and use it on his T2. However, has another Primeval Titan that he gives Double strike to attack for 16 and kills me on T2.
Card Choices:
2x Brimaz is amazing in any match-up where you are racing, which is a large chunk of the format right now. His damage quickly grows faster than Smiter's whenyour opponent is not blocking. And having vigilance tokens to chump on the swing back should not be overlooked.
4x Loxodon Smiter. Best card in the deck (besides Hierarch). There are so many decks that leave counter-magic up T2 and T3, and being able to walk through it is a luxury. Smiter is also great against Liliana decks where we need all the help we can get.
2x Scooze, 2x Pridemage. These are both great cards, but I don't like overdoing either. I like having two in the main-deck each so I dont't have to side additional graveyard or enchantment hate (besides gust).
3x Voice. Voice is a good card in almost every matchup, he is one of the few cards I never side out. This is something I may consider a 4 of in the future especially if I am playing Wilt-Leafs.
2x Wilt Leaf Liege. I feel like most matches are a race, and having a trump that your opponents don't see coming when they are trying to leave up blockers is great.
1x Thrun, Sigarda, Baneslayer. These higher end cards are extremely match dependent, and end up being sided out a lot. the Thrun and Sigarda are a hedge to the Rock decks that I consider our worst match-up (besides maybe affinity).
2x Tectonic Edge. I like having the 6 land destruction cards. In some matches where attacking their mana is the best option or an opponent is stumbling, having two LD cards is so much stronger than just one. I occasionally have to mulligan a hand from lack of colored mana, but sometimes screwing your opponent is good enough. There is always the last resort of GQ'ing your own Tectonic Edge to get a basic. The play results in the same amount of mana for the turn, turning a colorless into a color.
Sideboard.
This is the first time I played with BFT over Firewalkers, but I think I like them more. BFT can protect your team against board wipes, and protect key bears (Thalia vs Burn, Teeg vs Combo).
2x Stony Silence, 1x Creeping Corrosion, 1x Fracturing Gust. I wouldn't play less Affinity hate than I am now, the matchup is just tough. The SS's are also great against Tron and Ad Nauseum. I'm running the 1 Gust as a catch-all and an out against Boggles.
2x Mirran Crusader. We really need help against The Rock/Abzan. I haven't played against it in some time, but I wouldn't hedge here.
I think Elspeth was my worst card in the deck this week and I would replace it in the Board with a second Teeg. He is a versatile threat, especially with the rise of Amulet combo, and the prominence of Scapeshift and Splinter Twin. Teeg is even better when you are running BFT and Voice.
Overall, I was very happy with the deck. I believe it is extremely consistent against any archetype. There are so many different ways you can tune for the meta, and different ways to attack every match up.
2 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
3 Forest
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Gavony Township
1 Tectonic Edge
3 Birds of Paradise
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Baneslayer Angel
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
4 Loxodon Smiter
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Siege Rhino
2 Restoration Angel
3 Voice of Resurgence
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Lingering Souls
1 Citadel Siege
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Path to Exile
4 Thoughtseize
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Choke
2 Stony Silence
1 Fracturing Gust
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Slaughter Pact
I haven't tried Brimaz myself but I did play against it in a dead guy ale list last week and you're right about the vigilance tokens -- they are very good chump blockers that make combat terrible for anything without trample. I've also gotten blown out by sideboard Hibernations so a couple more white creatures wouldn't hurt. I would cut 4x qasali pridemage down to 2x just like you but I'm afraid I will miss the exalted triggers too much, but it would make the deck more resilient to pyroclasm/anger.
I never liked Teeg because of how narrow and fragile it seemed but with BFT instead of firewalkers you might be right that he's worth playing. The main decks that Teeg is good against won't have a way to kill it (red sweepers or wraths).
At this point in the meta I think hushwing gryff is better than mindcensor. Without pod, mindcensors have been pretty subpar in my opinion and not even that great against scapeshift as they usually have a way to deal with it. Using your g2 vs scapeshift as an example, you drew all 3 mindcensors and it was close enough that they were able to top deck a win.
@Xardian7 I'd be uncomfortable running 6 fetches with arbiters. Siege rhino is good but if you may want to just play a Junk deck if you're going to splash black with fetches. 9 black sources doesn't seem enough imo.
I agree that Mind Censors aren't great right now, but in past testing with Hushwing I have been unimpressed. The main decks that run ETB creatures (Snap Caster, Resto, Rhino) have a large amount of removal to kill hushwing. It often feels like a tempo loss to pay 3 mana for the Gryff, and then have him get bolted.
Teeg on the other hand seems like a great place to be. I bring him in in a lot of matchups:
Scapeshift - Scapeshift, Cryptic
Amulet Combo - Hive Mind
Splinter Twin - Splinter Twin, Cryptic
Ad Nauseum - Ad Nauseum
White Control Variants - Wrath, Verdict, Planeswalkers, Sphinx's Rev, Batterskull
R/G Tron - Karn, O-Stone, Ugin, All is Dust
U/W Tron & Gifts - Gifts Ungiven, Unburial Rights
Storm - Past in Flames, Empty the Warrens
Spaghetti and Meatballs - Through the Breach, Scapeshift
Living Death - Living Death
Grislebrand Decks - Through the Breach, Fury of the Horde
I sometimes bring him in against infect to stop Become Immense. Most of these decks also run some form of removal/sweeper, maybe its time to run Mark of Asylum in the Board over BFT/Firewalker?
If you want leyline side, you want 4 leyline side to increase chances of drawing it in your opening and subsequent mulligans. What would we need it against? It is good against burn, 8 Rack, Ad Nauseam, and storm. Are we having so much trouble against these decks that we want to dedicate 4 sideboard slots to them? I don't feel like we need to. Our mainboard can already deal with a lot of their threats, and a couple sideboard slots already are equipped to deal with these, but cover a greater range of decks. (Kor firewalker against burn, delver, uwr; artifact destruction against 8 rack that we have for affinity; graveyard hate for storm that also hits other gy decks, etc.) Thalia also is great against all of these.
Naya Burn
Grixis Twin
If ad-Naus ever becomes something that specific side board slots need to be dedicated to I recommend eidolon of rhetoric and the artifact equivalent instead.
GUGEdric, Spymaster of Trest - Elfball
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic- Doomsday!
RWUEphara, God of the Polis - Blink + Control
GBGGlissa, the Traitor - Stax & Lands
URGMaelstrom Wanderer - Goodstuff RUG
RGWMayael the Anima - Timmy
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher - The One Hit Wonder
RGWMarath, Will of the Wild - Old-school Enchantress Hate
RWRAurelia, the Warleader - Equipment Aggro
GGGReki, the History of Kamigawa - Legends + Banding
UBRSedris, the Traitor King - Creatures with : Ability
BUBPhenax, God of Deception - Mill
*Sidenote, I specifically excluded infinite combos from all these decks with the exception of Marath and the squirrel nest + Earthcraft combo.
Looking for something Aggressive in modern? Try - BR Aggro
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Loxodon Smiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Restoration Angel
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Temple Garden
3 Horizon Canopy
3 Razorverge Thicket
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Gavony Township
1 Stirring Wildwood
3 Forest
3 Plains
Once my Voices arrive they will replace the Gaddock Teeg and Sigarda. There were only 3 matches this time but it was good to get a feel for how to play the deck.
Round 1 (2-0)
I didnt get to see much of what his deck did but I did see Lotus Cobra, Dragonmaster Outcast, and Thundermaw Hellkite come out on his side.
Round 2 (Twin, 2-0)
He burns and Snapcasters my Thalias and Pridemage, but I manage to stick Scooze on the field and feed every creature in the graves to him and Path his Pestermite before he can cast Twin. 2nd game he gets down an early Blood Moon but cant draw a Pestermite or Exarch and I eventually take him down.
Round 3 (Jund, 0-2)
I got really unlucky with draws the entire first game. Decent opening hand, then drew every 4 cost card in my deck while he went triple Goyf and made me discard any playable cards I had. Second game I side in 3 Mirran Crusaders but fail to see a single one or Path to Exile to deal with his Olivia and he ends up stealing every creature I have.
It tends to be a very good deck against jeskai control. Voices are a major hassle for them. Smithers are a big cheap threat that they can't keep from hitting the field. Best of all, if you play a Thrun it is usually just game over for them.
http://cubetutor.com/cubeblog/2766
Jacob Wilson is on it too. It's a deck that probably a lot of GW Hatebears players have toyed with building, it's great to see people take it to a PT.
GW GW Hatebears |GWB Counters Company | GWU Bant Knightfall GW Value Town
Legacy:
GWB Maverick
EDH:
GWR Mayael | Rhys | Sisay | Ezuri | Titania
GWIf it doesn't have a toolbox I don't want anything to do with itGW
I'm in love. I just need to order a few lands and I'm set. I'd want to fit in abrupt decay and scavenging ooze, but I'm most likely going to order the remaining cards for it today and take it to the next fnm.
GW GW Hatebears |GWB Counters Company | GWU Bant Knightfall GW Value Town
Legacy:
GWB Maverick
EDH:
GWR Mayael | Rhys | Sisay | Ezuri | Titania
GWIf it doesn't have a toolbox I don't want anything to do with itGW