I'm thinking about 2 Slaver 2 Engine 2 Ugin in the future
I've been wanting another walker lately, was going to try 1/1 Of Karn and Ugin. 7 Mana vindicate + fog is probably more than good enough.
I've been hitting some time issues on making the 8 for Ugin, both with and without talismans in the build, and a few times 7 mana for not-a-creature has been exactly what I would have needed for the game.
I'll just post my decklist here, and mention that I've been very happy with this configuration. Censor is very playable. Cycle for only U is super relevant.
Commit is also pretty good. It's exactly what our decks want by letting us untap before having to deal with the troublesome permanent again. Four mana is a bit much though, so I don't know if we can run more than one or two. I've been taking it in against creature decks, as well as being a solution to troublesome permanents. It probably beats out repeal number 3. Also, there's an interesting interaction with Torrential Gearhulk. Gearhulk's trigger can cast both sides of the card. Allowing us cast Gearhulk EOT, and untap with 7 fresh cards. Casting Gifts Ungiven makes this interaction far far more likely to happen.
I want to find space for another Ugin somewhere, but can't quite fit him in. Maybe I should be replacing a surgical in the side, since he does help vs Dredge as well.
I'll just post my decklist here, and mention that I've been very happy with this configuration. Censor is very playable. Cycle for only U is super relevant.
Commit is also pretty good. It's exactly what our decks want by letting us untap before having to deal with the troublesome permanent again. Four mana is a bit much though, so I don't know if we can run more than one or two. I've been taking it in against creature decks, as well as being a solution to troublesome permanents. It probably beats out repeal number 3. Also, there's an interesting interaction with Torrential Gearhulk. Gearhulk's trigger can cast both sides of the card. Allowing us cast Gearhulk EOT, and untap with 7 fresh cards. Casting Gifts Ungiven makes this interaction far far more likely to happen.
I want to find space for another Ugin somewhere, but can't quite fit him in. Maybe I should be replacing a surgical in the side, since he does help vs Dredge as well.
Wouldn't the popularity of Death's Shadow necessitate the original three or perhaps even full compliment of Repeal now? I've admittedly been off Mono-U Tron and on Eldrazi Tron for the past month or so, so I haven't had an opportunity to assess its impact, but it seems like an obvious power play against Death's Shadow.
How viable is the 'classical' version of this deck now? So many builds now seem to run the odd one-of or two-of from the new set, or odd numbers of cards we used to see in more fixed numbers. If I just wanna play the old school Mono-U machine stuff lists, does that still work?
I'm also beginning to think that now might be the time for Mana Leak, as the new Abzan Company deck has a toolbox full of combos that can almost all end the game for us (we can still Slaver lock beyond infinite life), and I REALLY don't wanna be bouncing Collected Company back to my opponent's hand.
My first competitive league and i go 2-3 against 2 death and taxes, 1 eldrazi and taxes, 1 merfolk and the mirror...
Managed to win vs 1 d/t and vs the eldrazi/t. Leonin Arbiter, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and Flickerwisp resetting my chalice were kinda backbreaking.
Merfolk feels almost unbeatable.
In the mirror the opponent was playing Reality Shift on my Wurmcoil, it seemed pretty effective, but i guess it's only suited against specific decks with low threat density.
How's this deck been working for everyone in the current Modern world? I'm an Elf player and wanted to try something new. Never played control before. Will I like it?
2 Mindslaver and 1 academy ruins are a must. It is how you win games...
Why 2 mindslavers and not just another Treasure Mage or something to fetch for the 1?
Because you can increase odds of finding one to burn before you have the lock. Some of decks are running 2 mages 2 slavers already. Plus having 2 is great in control match up. U can bait some counters on first one and get a scoop with second one.
Edit. Also because shok runs 2 and get 5 and 0 competitives pretty decently. Why do others try to change it.
People change things because they're trying to improve the decklist. Shok didnt run Ugin or Chalice for a long time, even though pretty much everyone else were running them. Shok going 5-0 shouldnt be attributed to his decklist
Hi guys, so a little introduction, a while back I stumbled upon esper gifts and thought that I had finally found a modern deck I would stick to, long story short, esper gifts lead to UW tron which lead to U tron pretty fast. I have 90% of the more budget friendly version (mainly minus chalice) on mtgo built, first mtgo modern deck I've built btw, and have been playing it relentlessly in friendly leagues the past 2 weeks. I am also building the deck on paper and expect my last few cards to arrive tomorrow.
I would like to thank kharniverous for streaming with the deck, I live in a different time zone so I usually catch your videos afterwards but it has helped me learn the deck a lot. I can't always catch the audio since twitch cuts out the sound because of copyright but informative none the less man.
I have a few questions:
1.) Is Oboro, Palace in the CLouds really worth it? I haven't noticed it be useful in any of the matches I've watched, unless I missed it!
2.) The deck has 2 flex spots which I can't seem to decide on, I have tried Talisman's, epiphany, anticipate etc. but I side them out first thing every time. I did however read the discussion above about how to play the 2nd Mindslaver and why it's there so I will probably fill a slot with mindslaver number 2. But I feel like turn one is a dead turn a lot of the time and I considered adding two serum visions or mainboarding 2 spell pierce since they get sided in almost every game!
3.) I am not convinced about Solemn Simulacrum, he feels dead to me the majority of the time, I could see playing 1 copy but what to replace him with? I'd like another solid threat or is a second snapcaster a good idea?
4.) Is Walking Ballista worth a slot?
is Spellskite still needed in the sideboard?
if infect disappears, the only real application, that i can think of would be to steal a Temur Battle Rage?
Spellskite #1 has always been weaker than Chalice #4 for me. If you play 4 Chalice and you think you need more of that... go for it. If you want a decent blocker play Steel Wall / Sidisi's Faithful / Filigree Familiar
So lately have been in a bit of a winstreak slump. To change it up was going to go back to a more "traditional" old build of shok's with a couple of updates. What do you guys think of the competitiveness of something like this?
I have a very budget version of this deck from when I used to play magic. I'm interested in playing again. Since that time the deck has changed a bit. Therefore, I have a couple of questions.
What are the usual searches with decks running gifts?
Of the chalice and engineered explosives ( both expensive) which is more useful purchase?
Is snapcaster worth investing for a budget version as a one of?
Pardon me for asking, but what is the purpose of the higher amount of card draw and filtering in the Under 100 Tix list? Why not run another solemn and mindslaver for example? Some of these choices seem very different from the path to the non-budget version and I am just wondering the reasoning.
Edit: To be more specific I am talking about the anticipate and the epiphany, at least one of which just seems to be replacing a repeal.
I prefer 6 card draw 2 tutors over other alternatives. Anticipate and similiar spells help you hit your land drops, find answers (removal, bounce, counter), assemble tron, find threats etc. Most importantly they are instant speed and can be cast EOT after keeping interaction open. I play 4 THirst 1 Anticipate 1 Epiphany in my nonbudget version as well. https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/481359
I play 4 THirst 1 Anticipate 1 Epiphany in my nonbudget version as well.
Hi Pierakor, why do you run the one of epiphany? I'm trying to understand why it's better than another anticipate (helps early game when epiphany is dead) or maybe a gifts (gets 4 cards of your choice for same amount of mana instead of random topdecks).
Also you are running 24 lands without talismans, I assume you are happy with this configuration but I'm interested to hear your thoughts on not running 25 lands with an extra blue source (10 total)?
Epiphany is better than Anticipate mid and late game especially vs Jund, Grixis, Abzan, Control deck etc. It's a meta call if you want 2 Anticipate or 1/1 split or 2 Epiphany. I like Epiphany more than Gifts because it scales with mana and I can cast it turn 3 when it is better than Gifts (because Gifts is dead) and it still does a decent Anticipate impression or turn 8 when it is better than Gifts because of scaling. Gifts is better turns 4-6 or so.
This pic might help you out understand some of the relations but please note that it is very difficult to evaluate Gifts Ungiven and it might be a little bit to well positioned here:
I was running 24 lands 0 talisman and flooding more often than screwing so I decided to go to 24 lands and it's been fine. I sometimes board into 25/23 lands.
Bant Eldrazi MU: Chalice on 1 is good, Spreading Seas the Caverns or hope they don't have Caverns then Remand/Condescend the big things until you hit O stone/Engine. Angel can be very tough to deal with for them.
I've been wanting another walker lately, was going to try 1/1 Of Karn and Ugin. 7 Mana vindicate + fog is probably more than good enough.
I've been hitting some time issues on making the 8 for Ugin, both with and without talismans in the build, and a few times 7 mana for not-a-creature has been exactly what I would have needed for the game.
Commit is also pretty good. It's exactly what our decks want by letting us untap before having to deal with the troublesome permanent again. Four mana is a bit much though, so I don't know if we can run more than one or two. I've been taking it in against creature decks, as well as being a solution to troublesome permanents. It probably beats out repeal number 3. Also, there's an interesting interaction with Torrential Gearhulk. Gearhulk's trigger can cast both sides of the card. Allowing us cast Gearhulk EOT, and untap with 7 fresh cards. Casting Gifts Ungiven makes this interaction far far more likely to happen.
I want to find space for another Ugin somewhere, but can't quite fit him in. Maybe I should be replacing a surgical in the side, since he does help vs Dredge as well.
2 Chalice of the Void
4 Expedition Map
Small Bodies
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Trophy Mage
2 Treasure Mage
Trophy mage Package
1 Filigree Familiar
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Oblivion Stone
Big Stuff
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Mindslaver
1 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Platinum Angel
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Counterspells
2 Remand
3 Censor
4 Condescend
1 Cyclonic Rift
2 Repeal
2 Spatial Contortion
Draw Spells
1 Gifts Ungiven
4 Thirst for Knowledge
Lands
1 Academy Ruins
1 Polluted Delta
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Gemstone Caverns
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Tower
4 Urza's Power Plant
5 Island
3 Dismember
1 Chalice of the Void
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Negate
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Spatial Contortion
1 Tectonic Edge
2 Squelch
1 Spreading Seas
1 Commit/Memory
Wouldn't the popularity of Death's Shadow necessitate the original three or perhaps even full compliment of Repeal now? I've admittedly been off Mono-U Tron and on Eldrazi Tron for the past month or so, so I haven't had an opportunity to assess its impact, but it seems like an obvious power play against Death's Shadow.
How viable is the 'classical' version of this deck now? So many builds now seem to run the odd one-of or two-of from the new set, or odd numbers of cards we used to see in more fixed numbers. If I just wanna play the old school Mono-U machine stuff lists, does that still work?
I'm also beginning to think that now might be the time for Mana Leak, as the new Abzan Company deck has a toolbox full of combos that can almost all end the game for us (we can still Slaver lock beyond infinite life), and I REALLY don't wanna be bouncing Collected Company back to my opponent's hand.
Managed to win vs 1 d/t and vs the eldrazi/t.
Leonin Arbiter, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and Flickerwisp resetting my chalice were kinda backbreaking.
Merfolk feels almost unbeatable.
In the mirror the opponent was playing Reality Shift on my Wurmcoil, it seemed pretty effective, but i guess it's only suited against specific decks with low threat density.
Why 2 mindslavers and not just another Treasure Mage or something to fetch for the 1?
Because you can increase odds of finding one to burn before you have the lock. Some of decks are running 2 mages 2 slavers already. Plus having 2 is great in control match up. U can bait some counters on first one and get a scoop with second one.
Edit. Also because shok runs 2 and get 5 and 0 competitives pretty decently. Why do others try to change it.
I would like to thank kharniverous for streaming with the deck, I live in a different time zone so I usually catch your videos afterwards but it has helped me learn the deck a lot. I can't always catch the audio since twitch cuts out the sound because of copyright but informative none the less man.
I have a few questions:
1.) Is Oboro, Palace in the CLouds really worth it? I haven't noticed it be useful in any of the matches I've watched, unless I missed it!
2.) The deck has 2 flex spots which I can't seem to decide on, I have tried Talisman's, epiphany, anticipate etc. but I side them out first thing every time. I did however read the discussion above about how to play the 2nd Mindslaver and why it's there so I will probably fill a slot with mindslaver number 2. But I feel like turn one is a dead turn a lot of the time and I considered adding two serum visions or mainboarding 2 spell pierce since they get sided in almost every game!
3.) I am not convinced about Solemn Simulacrum, he feels dead to me the majority of the time, I could see playing 1 copy but what to replace him with? I'd like another solid threat or is a second snapcaster a good idea?
4.) Is Walking Ballista worth a slot?
Below is my current build:
4 Urza's Tower
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Mine
9 Island
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Academy Ruins
1 Ghost Quarter
Creatures (9)
1 Snapcaster Mage
2 Treasure Mage
2 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Platinum Angel
1 Sundering Titan
4 Expedition Map
4 Condescend
3 Repeal
2 Spatial Contortion
2 Mana Leak
2 Remand
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Mindslaver
Planeswalkers (1)
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 flex spots??
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spreading Seas
2 Squelch
2 Dismember
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Tectonic Edge
5 tbd??
if infect disappears, the only real application, that i can think of would be to steal a Temur Battle Rage?
Youtube Channel
My stream:
www.twitch.tv/pierakor
My Disco:
https://discord.gg/gTt6xHd
4 Expedition Map
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Cyclonic Rift
4 Remand
3 Talisman of Dominance
4 Thirst For Knowledge
1 Oblivion Stone
2 Treasure Mage
2 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Mindslaver
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Platinum Angel
1 Sundering Titan
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Repeal
4 Condescend
1 Spell Burst
4 Urza's Tower
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
8 Island
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Academy Ruins
Side
3 Chalice of the void
3 Dismember
3 Spatial Contortion
3 Spreading Seas
2 Summary Dismissal
1 Negate
I realize the meta has shifted a lot since these builds were popular but maybe its time to bring back the talismans and solemns?
I have a very budget version of this deck from when I used to play magic. I'm interested in playing again. Since that time the deck has changed a bit. Therefore, I have a couple of questions.
What are the usual searches with decks running gifts?
Of the chalice and engineered explosives ( both expensive) which is more useful purchase?
Is snapcaster worth investing for a budget version as a one of?
Any other useful tips?
Snapcaster is nice but if you are budget that's like the last card you should buy.
I have some budget lists:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/311232
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/535869
Youtube Channel
My stream:
www.twitch.tv/pierakor
My Disco:
https://discord.gg/gTt6xHd
Edit: To be more specific I am talking about the anticipate and the epiphany, at least one of which just seems to be replacing a repeal.
Youtube Channel
My stream:
www.twitch.tv/pierakor
My Disco:
https://discord.gg/gTt6xHd
Hi Pierakor, why do you run the one of epiphany? I'm trying to understand why it's better than another anticipate (helps early game when epiphany is dead) or maybe a gifts (gets 4 cards of your choice for same amount of mana instead of random topdecks).
Also you are running 24 lands without talismans, I assume you are happy with this configuration but I'm interested to hear your thoughts on not running 25 lands with an extra blue source (10 total)?
This pic might help you out understand some of the relations but please note that it is very difficult to evaluate Gifts Ungiven and it might be a little bit to well positioned here:
I was running 24 lands 0 talisman and flooding more often than screwing so I decided to go to 24 lands and it's been fine. I sometimes board into 25/23 lands.
Bant Eldrazi MU: Chalice on 1 is good, Spreading Seas the Caverns or hope they don't have Caverns then Remand/Condescend the big things until you hit O stone/Engine. Angel can be very tough to deal with for them.
Youtube Channel
My stream:
www.twitch.tv/pierakor
My Disco:
https://discord.gg/gTt6xHd