Warping Wail mode 2 and 3 are pretty bad. Mode 3 isn't a flash dork, it's a Simian Spirit Guide (we have little use for this). Mode 2 doesn't really hit anything relevant except Scapeshift (there are other sorceries but none which are popular/important) and mode 1 while interesting is not enough imo. What I really don't like is mode 1 fizzling vs infect pump and prowess triggers since the condition will no longer be met when the spell resolves.
I admit calling it a flash mana dork was overvaluing mode three on my part, but I think properly evaluating the card is looking at what mode 1 hits primarily with modes 2 and three as options for when we don't need the removal. Being able to play a bomb 1+ turns early, especially when our bombs produce card advantage themselves (Wurmcoil and Sundering Titan come to mind specifically) seem like a perfectly reasonable use of a card since our bombs also go a long way to stabilizing us in the faster matchups. We can also hold up mana turn 2 and make a 1/1 EoT if there is either nothing better to do or we want to simply present more mana turn 3. Being able to Chalice x=1 and hold up Remand or Repeal/Condescend X=1 on turn 3 sounds fairly strong to me. The ability to flash chump block isn't ideal but if it lets us untap and win (like we are willing to do with condescends for less than they can pay for) then it's enough even if it's card disadvantage.
The middle mode is the least useful probably but being able to counter all stone rain and sowing salt effects seems huge to me, especially in my meta with a lot of RG tron. Other reasonable targets imo are Summer Bloom (while the first mode also covers azusa), can hit Painful Truths, Maelstrom Pulse, Seize effects, and other fringe sorceries. It's definitely the weakest mode but there are some good sorceries out there for us to worry about.
That said, mode 1 hits a lot of high value targets on its own, so the flexibility on top of that is just a plus and I think the card might be playable on the back of the first mode alone. I'm definitely looking at testing a split of these, Spatial Contortions and Dismembers in a 75. I'm very optimistic for this card because it can in theory do a whole lot of different things, so i think even if it turns out to not be quite good enough it definitely warrants thorough testing.
RE: Infect - them pumping to dodge it is definitely bad but the fact that we now have this as an option to be used in tandem with Dismember, Skite, Chalice, and Spatial Contortion makes me think it won't be too much of an issue most of the time.
Welcome to the forums and the thread!
This appears to be your first post!
Say, are you a wizards employee hyping a new card for our beloved deck or did you simply fell for the bait right there?
Long time lurker, first time poster.
As for the card, I think of it like Sad Robot had a kid with Goblin Shredder from hearthstone. It has downside and some high upside.
It could flip you simply an island when it dies. It could flip a Tmage and get some pretty awesome value.
I haven't kept up with shoks list recently, but last I recall he was still running 23 land x talisman list with Solemn Simulacrum.
So while "Tapping out turn three for a creature that when it dies replaces himself by drawing, ramping or cheating something into play..." doesn't seem good to you, it's still played, or at least was played.
I'm looking forward to testing out how wide the variance gap is with the card/how to reduce it. I'm not saying it's a gift straight from MaRo, but i think its an exciting card that could potentially have a place in the deck.
The thing is, even though Warping Wail can counter sorceries, well, we already play "real" countermagic. That's why I think this is be better for Gr Tron than for U Tron. It's conditional removal + a bad counter (for a blue deck) + a useless third mode. For Gr Tron it provides something they just don't have access to.
It's really hard to think about some card I would like to remove from this deck to add Warping Wail. All the countermagic is better and even though we don't have access to "real" removal (outside Dismember), 1/x or x/1 creatures are not really the issues this deck has.
I don't know, a hard counter for sorceries sounds quite good to me. The other modes aren't at all bad either. It also answers Twin creatures for colorless mana. I feel less and less like Dismember is necessary now that we are getting two new colorless removal spells.
I don't know, a hard counter for sorceries sounds quite good to me. The other modes aren't at all bad either. It also answers Twin creatures for colorless mana. I feel less and less like Dismember is necessary now that we are getting two new colorless removal spells.
Sure, but my point is: is it MD material for this deck? That's what I'm really iffy about. If it is, what should it replace?
So i finally put together reports from some games i played. If you despise the idea of UW tron, stop reading now. Its still good old blue tron, just not "mono" now, so imo it belongs to this thread.
vs. Jeskai twin - 2-1 win g1 he was on beats with pestermite with last card in hand, so i played coil (had 6 life) and thought i race him... well last card was obv twin - fail,
g2 he didnt get anything throught permission so slaverlock,
g3 same story, casted t4 narset with opened path which was risky, but in the end card advantage won game. aaaand slaverlocked.
vs. Grixis twin - 2-1 win g1 narset proved again to be not so bad card, drawing 4 cards copied path and ate 7dmg before he killed her, he had no real answer to wurmcoil beats in the end;
g2 he comboed on t4 and i had no answer (greedy keep),
g3 normal counter wars and beats with exarchs, snaps, while i was building my mana, in the end ugin and opened mana for o-stone activation on board locked game
vs. 8rack 2-1 - g1 mull to 5, to see slaver and 4 lands, didnt know what i play against, saw condescend with scry so i greedily kept hoping to see some sort of control;
g2 race with icreasing devotion, had 1 life and killed him exactly with 14 points on ground,got to admit i drew g2 natural tron so i could beat his nuts hand)
g3 wurmcoil unbeatable, he doesnt have an answer and coil heals through racks
vs. Value company- 0-2 g1 couldn't keep up, finnaly put coil in, he eot coco, 2 reliquary knights 8/8, gg.
g2 Hallowed burial in hand but couldn't find any 4th land for 3 turns so fail again.
vs. value company(same guy) - 1-2 g1 got again mana screwed,
g2 hallowed burial cleaned the board and sundering titan sealed the deal.
g3 i got just owned (yet again); didnt draw any wrath and he ran over me. I must say i didnt see Ugin for all 5 games which is biggest finisher and almost insta win.
Nevertheles i must point out, that these hatebears / coco value + RG tron are worst match ups ever. (at least for me, burns and zoo's getting owned by sb)
Too fast and playing too much or too big (or both) cards to handle them. It just feels, like you are whole game few turns behind, trying to catch up.
vs. Azorius value - 2-1 - g1 didn't quite get tools to persist his paths and oblivion ring answers to everything,
g2 i just wrecked him with narset rebound Increasing devotion, he waited 1 turn to exile all 10 with sphere, and i had time to untap and counter this last attempt;
g3 simillar story to g2 - t3 narset making look azorius "value" ridiculous with drawing 1.65 cards/turn and casting paths, thirsts, fabricates 2x. His slow value deck got overhelmed.
vs. Naya zoo - 2-0 g1 i somehow stabilized on 6 hp when he ran out of fuel and dropped coil, after first hit and +6 life he concedes.
g2 i sb all burn/zoo hate cards in (e. explosives, 3x timely reinf., 2spellskites) and he stood no chance. Finished the game with 16 life (without coil).
vs. Red deck wins (or how its called) 2-0 - g1 i didnt know what am i playing against, which i recognized by his 1st turn - mountain-spirit guide-ritual-bloodmoon.
Well i saw day earlier this deck in post on mtggoldfish, so i knew his entire decklist. So i didnt panick and started to dig for talismans
and basics to enable spells (i was lucky i had island in hand). After 5 turns he tried koth which got countered. Won with ugin in the end.
g2 he didnt have moon t1 so i just remanded his moon t2 and than celestial purge it t3 when resolved. Nothing from his side other than
some ensnaring bridges and hardcast guide magus-got path and 1-2 walkers - one got countered second needled. Narset locks him and he concedes.
vs. Skred red 2-0 - g1 he starts his slow game with ton of creature removal in hand. He simply didnt have answer for ugin.
g2 simillar, he sb in more threats like batterskul and koths to win, but talisman dodges moon so i have colors to fight with him over these cards. Again Ugin bites to death.
vs. Affinity 0-2 - g1 he has nuts hand and just drop everything, while being on play. No real answer in mb to t1 plating.
g2 i didnt see any sb cards and he got again very fast hand, which with minor problems got me.
This mu isn't normally so bad. He just drew well and i did not.
vs. Naya Burn 2-1 - g1 he steamrolls my face. normal ***** like t1 golbin guide, t2 2nd goblin and lava spike, t3 boros charm and bolt.
g2 i let him taste my sb. One resolved timely reinf. and he can't recover.
g3 t1 path his guide, t2 talisman - spell snare eidolon, t3 narset, t4 rebound timely reinf. - gg
vs. Lantern Control 2-1 - g1 he has whole pack in hand and i have very little interaction. In the end got mindslaver in game and had path+his spellskite to kill him, but he mills me like by 2 cards.
g2 got natural tron in hand, so he trying to dig for needles to answer ugin and o-stone. In the end i won topdeck battle over enginered explosives and he concedes.
g3 i let him establish control, but fight over bridge, which i countered 2x. Got him with increasing veng. beats.
vs. Bx eldrazi- 2-0 - g1 i got nuts hand with ugin + whole tron. draw sundering titan in the process and he concedes t5 to casting titan with ugin on board. super lucky..
g2 normal hand, he cast his stuff and beats me with those 5/8, stopped with wurmcoil. Cleared board with day of judgment and he activates eye searching for Ulamog. Casts him,
exile few lands and gets pathed. Turns out, he plays only one in his deck (or didnt want to search second, wtf) and next is Endless one, which got stopped
by recured coil on ground, while colonnade kills him. Got to admit, that this new deck is not very good MU for blue tron. Counters are bit useless with everything
procing on cast and their lategame is stronger than ours with eye of ugin searching *****s every turn.
Cannot figure out how to post decklist in acceptable form, so for now i won't
Very excited to see U Tron getting a deck tech! Wasn't really expecting that exact list but it actually looks close to what I expect my list to look like soon (just moved from 23 to 25 lands and added ulamog, thinking about adding eye and urborg). Sweet stuff!
Thanks so much for all the support and hopefully I can finish strong and do the deck proud, hopefully I didn't miss too much on the deck the deck tech video and I hope y'all enjoyed it.
Losses so far were to Jund and Zoo, Wins vs merfolk x2, twin, storm, affinity, junk, and one other that I cant remember at the moment.
Pretty scared for the rg tron matchup as I felt it was pointless to try to board for that and will hppe to dodge it all the way to the t8.
Wish me luck!
Ps, Amelia's is a fantasic bakery in charlotte should you ever be in town.
I think the biggest thing we can get out of that interview is what an amazing voice Pendergast has. You need to do a podcast or something with that voice of yours!
I admit calling it a flash mana dork was overvaluing mode three on my part, but I think properly evaluating the card is looking at what mode 1 hits primarily with modes 2 and three as options for when we don't need the removal. Being able to play a bomb 1+ turns early, especially when our bombs produce card advantage themselves (Wurmcoil and Sundering Titan come to mind specifically) seem like a perfectly reasonable use of a card since our bombs also go a long way to stabilizing us in the faster matchups. We can also hold up mana turn 2 and make a 1/1 EoT if there is either nothing better to do or we want to simply present more mana turn 3. Being able to Chalice x=1 and hold up Remand or Repeal/Condescend X=1 on turn 3 sounds fairly strong to me. The ability to flash chump block isn't ideal but if it lets us untap and win (like we are willing to do with condescends for less than they can pay for) then it's enough even if it's card disadvantage.
The middle mode is the least useful probably but being able to counter all stone rain and sowing salt effects seems huge to me, especially in my meta with a lot of RG tron. Other reasonable targets imo are Summer Bloom (while the first mode also covers azusa), can hit Painful Truths, Maelstrom Pulse, Seize effects, and other fringe sorceries. It's definitely the weakest mode but there are some good sorceries out there for us to worry about.
That said, mode 1 hits a lot of high value targets on its own, so the flexibility on top of that is just a plus and I think the card might be playable on the back of the first mode alone. I'm definitely looking at testing a split of these, Spatial Contortions and Dismembers in a 75. I'm very optimistic for this card because it can in theory do a whole lot of different things, so i think even if it turns out to not be quite good enough it definitely warrants thorough testing.
RE: Infect - them pumping to dodge it is definitely bad but the fact that we now have this as an option to be used in tandem with Dismember, Skite, Chalice, and Spatial Contortion makes me think it won't be too much of an issue most of the time.
Long time lurker, first time poster.
As for the card, I think of it like Sad Robot had a kid with Goblin Shredder from hearthstone. It has downside and some high upside.
It could flip you simply an island when it dies. It could flip a Tmage and get some pretty awesome value.
I haven't kept up with shoks list recently, but last I recall he was still running 23 land x talisman list with Solemn Simulacrum.
So while "Tapping out turn three for a creature that when it dies replaces himself by drawing, ramping or cheating something into play..." doesn't seem good to you, it's still played, or at least was played.
I'm looking forward to testing out how wide the variance gap is with the card/how to reduce it. I'm not saying it's a gift straight from MaRo, but i think its an exciting card that could potentially have a place in the deck.
Youtube Channel
My stream:
www.twitch.tv/pierakor
My Disco:
https://discord.gg/gTt6xHd
It's really hard to think about some card I would like to remove from this deck to add Warping Wail. All the countermagic is better and even though we don't have access to "real" removal (outside Dismember), 1/x or x/1 creatures are not really the issues this deck has.
I stream Modern events semi-regularly at http://www.twitch.tv/nezeru
Sure, but my point is: is it MD material for this deck? That's what I'm really iffy about. If it is, what should it replace?
The new 3 drop dude seems better than solemn to me on paper, but I'd have to test it.
I stream Modern events semi-regularly at http://www.twitch.tv/nezeru
Youtube Channel
My stream:
www.twitch.tv/pierakor
My Disco:
https://discord.gg/gTt6xHd
vs. Jeskai twin - 2-1 win g1 he was on beats with pestermite with last card in hand, so i played coil (had 6 life) and thought i race him... well last card was obv twin - fail,
g2 he didnt get anything throught permission so slaverlock,
g3 same story, casted t4 narset with opened path which was risky, but in the end card advantage won game. aaaand slaverlocked.
vs. Grixis twin - 2-1 win g1 narset proved again to be not so bad card, drawing 4 cards copied path and ate 7dmg before he killed her, he had no real answer to wurmcoil beats in the end;
g2 he comboed on t4 and i had no answer (greedy keep),
g3 normal counter wars and beats with exarchs, snaps, while i was building my mana, in the end ugin and opened mana for o-stone activation on board locked game
vs. 8rack 2-1 - g1 mull to 5, to see slaver and 4 lands, didnt know what i play against, saw condescend with scry so i greedily kept hoping to see some sort of control;
g2 race with icreasing devotion, had 1 life and killed him exactly with 14 points on ground,got to admit i drew g2 natural tron so i could beat his nuts hand)
g3 wurmcoil unbeatable, he doesnt have an answer and coil heals through racks
vs. Value company- 0-2 g1 couldn't keep up, finnaly put coil in, he eot coco, 2 reliquary knights 8/8, gg.
g2 Hallowed burial in hand but couldn't find any 4th land for 3 turns so fail again.
vs. value company(same guy) - 1-2 g1 got again mana screwed,
g2 hallowed burial cleaned the board and sundering titan sealed the deal.
g3 i got just owned (yet again); didnt draw any wrath and he ran over me. I must say i didnt see Ugin for all 5 games which is biggest finisher and almost insta win.
Nevertheles i must point out, that these hatebears / coco value + RG tron are worst match ups ever. (at least for me, burns and zoo's getting owned by sb)
Too fast and playing too much or too big (or both) cards to handle them. It just feels, like you are whole game few turns behind, trying to catch up.
vs. Azorius value - 2-1 - g1 didn't quite get tools to persist his paths and oblivion ring answers to everything,
g2 i just wrecked him with narset rebound Increasing devotion, he waited 1 turn to exile all 10 with sphere, and i had time to untap and counter this last attempt;
g3 simillar story to g2 - t3 narset making look azorius "value" ridiculous with drawing 1.65 cards/turn and casting paths, thirsts, fabricates 2x. His slow value deck got overhelmed.
vs. Naya zoo - 2-0 g1 i somehow stabilized on 6 hp when he ran out of fuel and dropped coil, after first hit and +6 life he concedes.
g2 i sb all burn/zoo hate cards in (e. explosives, 3x timely reinf., 2spellskites) and he stood no chance. Finished the game with 16 life (without coil).
vs. Red deck wins (or how its called) 2-0 - g1 i didnt know what am i playing against, which i recognized by his 1st turn - mountain-spirit guide-ritual-bloodmoon.
Well i saw day earlier this deck in post on mtggoldfish, so i knew his entire decklist. So i didnt panick and started to dig for talismans
and basics to enable spells (i was lucky i had island in hand). After 5 turns he tried koth which got countered. Won with ugin in the end.
g2 he didnt have moon t1 so i just remanded his moon t2 and than celestial purge it t3 when resolved. Nothing from his side other than
some ensnaring bridges and hardcast guide magus-got path and 1-2 walkers - one got countered second needled. Narset locks him and he concedes.
vs. Skred red 2-0 - g1 he starts his slow game with ton of creature removal in hand. He simply didnt have answer for ugin.
g2 simillar, he sb in more threats like batterskul and koths to win, but talisman dodges moon so i have colors to fight with him over these cards. Again Ugin bites to death.
vs. Affinity 0-2 - g1 he has nuts hand and just drop everything, while being on play. No real answer in mb to t1 plating.
g2 i didnt see any sb cards and he got again very fast hand, which with minor problems got me.
This mu isn't normally so bad. He just drew well and i did not.
vs. Naya Burn 2-1 - g1 he steamrolls my face. normal ***** like t1 golbin guide, t2 2nd goblin and lava spike, t3 boros charm and bolt.
g2 i let him taste my sb. One resolved timely reinf. and he can't recover.
g3 t1 path his guide, t2 talisman - spell snare eidolon, t3 narset, t4 rebound timely reinf. - gg
vs. Lantern Control 2-1 - g1 he has whole pack in hand and i have very little interaction. In the end got mindslaver in game and had path+his spellskite to kill him, but he mills me like by 2 cards.
g2 got natural tron in hand, so he trying to dig for needles to answer ugin and o-stone. In the end i won topdeck battle over enginered explosives and he concedes.
g3 i let him establish control, but fight over bridge, which i countered 2x. Got him with increasing veng. beats.
vs. Bx eldrazi- 2-0 - g1 i got nuts hand with ugin + whole tron. draw sundering titan in the process and he concedes t5 to casting titan with ugin on board. super lucky..
g2 normal hand, he cast his stuff and beats me with those 5/8, stopped with wurmcoil. Cleared board with day of judgment and he activates eye searching for Ulamog. Casts him,
exile few lands and gets pathed. Turns out, he plays only one in his deck (or didnt want to search second, wtf) and next is Endless one, which got stopped
by recured coil on ground, while colonnade kills him. Got to admit, that this new deck is not very good MU for blue tron. Counters are bit useless with everything
procing on cast and their lategame is stronger than ours with eye of ugin searching *****s every turn.
Cannot figure out how to post decklist in acceptable form, so for now i won't
(added to the Primer - not the most common list, but very useful as explanation of the whole deck concept and wincons)
We'll probably get a good tournament report from him in a couple days.
Losses so far were to Jund and Zoo, Wins vs merfolk x2, twin, storm, affinity, junk, and one other that I cant remember at the moment.
Pretty scared for the rg tron matchup as I felt it was pointless to try to board for that and will hppe to dodge it all the way to the t8.
Wish me luck!
Ps, Amelia's is a fantasic bakery in charlotte should you ever be in town.
Good luck man, Amelie's is amazing (I'm a Charlotte native)
Good luck on the rest of your matches!
GW Death and Taxes WG