I've only ever lost to the Twin combo if I've tapped out like an idiot.
Twin is a lot more frightening as a tempo deck that can burn you out than as a combo deck for Mono-U Tron.
Also, a question. How do people find the Scapeshift matchup? I got wrecked by it tonight.
assembling tron shouldn't be your priority when facing scapeshift..always have 2-3 blue mana up available..be in control of your own end step since they like bouncing a blue source with a cryptic command at the end of your turn so they can win in a counter war to resolve scapeshift on their turn..
sundering titan hurts them..
spell spierce and negate are good here..
i'm sure a lot here can give you more tips on siding against it..i don't think its a very difficult matchup for us..
Like all slow decks, Scapeshift is not a bad matchup, but you have to be able to counter scapeshift and fight a counterwar, which means never tap mana during your turn if your opponent can scapeshift you and be ready to fight counter wars. Also, don't waste your counters and their ramp spells and prepare to fight over scapeshift with lots of mana and a hand full of counters, and you should be good
Staying at 20 life helps a lot since it slows the combo. Jamming random Wurmcoils/Ugin is not a good idea if you don't have enough counter backup, they can just cryptic bounce it. However, resolving mindslaver is game over if they have scapeshift (you play it sac all their lands and pass the turn. I guess you can also kill them with Valakut Triggers if you feel like it).
It is basically the same as against twin except they run more conters but don't threaten the life total as much.
I also want to disagree with some things that have been said with reguards to the twin combo: sure we have lots of counters and resolving the combo is really hard against us. We also have lots of colorless mana, and after playtesting a lot against twin (both the UTron and Twin side) I think it is wrong to board out the combo (board out 2 twins, 2-3 exarcs), since a combo protected by dispel and maybe another counter can be hard to fight from the UTron side if we don't have enough blue sources. If the twin player keeps in bolts and attacks life total in the meantime, the match can be tricky.
I feel the same against UWR control, which is a good matchup but can just burn us out quickly. Against Scapeshift, the fact that he will always have 4+ free mana when trying to go for the kill makes condescend a really expensive counter and plays like EoT Cryptic bounce a land (blue source or single Tron piece to break the tron, forcing us to use a counter or lose a lot of mana) can put us on the back foot to fight the combo.
In these matchups, the level of the pilots and quality of sideboarding play a huge role (twin player siding out to blue moon justs offers us the game. Same thing for UWR if they side out all their burn spells). So you should never underestimate your opponent and ocnsider the matchup a free win (it may be 60-40 but you still have to fight for it), just anticipate what they may do in the following turns and keep up mana/counters accordingly
RE shortcutting: I demonstrate which lands I will be using and the motion is put Mindslaver faceup on the deck, then put it in play, graveyard, back on top (about 1-2 seconds) for my turn (I don't bother untapping the lands unless they insist, in which case putting them in a group together makes this quicker) and for their turn I draw, look for a way to hurt them with their own cards (for a second or two at most), discard if necessary after tapping out, and repeat.
Thanks, CBG, that's exactly what I was looking for. Outside of insisting that one untaps their lands, is there anything the opponent can do to legally slow down that process? My understanding is that in a situation like this the opponent can be called for slow play/stalling if they object to this type of shortcutting.
The only issue I find as a player of Mono U Tron is removal. There are a lot of aggro decks that are in the meta at this moment. Elves and Merfolk are two of the worst matches I find, and most likely Goblins will be next. Unlike UW Gifts Tron, Mono U Tron doesn't have much mass removal. I just wish that blue had more removal. Meanwhile, I think that Mono U Tron must use more Oblivion Stones to compete against these decks. The insurgence of these decks will also bring back control into the spectrum which is great, but I think that I may move into playing UW Gifts Tron just because of the number of mass removal spells.
It looks like a recent shoktroopa U-Tron list won a GPT at GP Singapore. It's the version with 2 Snapcasters, and the 2 Talismans of Progress/1 Talisman of Dominance, but he cut the Leyline from the sideboard so Progress makes no sense.
Got smoked by GR tron in the finals.... got molested by an "uncounterable" "untouchatargetble" emrakul in game 3 so im not really a happy camper atm -____-. need everyones opinion on Avarice Totem ? thinking of abusing it w/ repeal im ditching the single Cyclonic rift for now and rocking w/ 4x repeal.
*MINDSLAVER ACTIVATED* Please Go grab me a glass of water while i check your hand and Sideboards... oh and while your at it please go grab a couple of twinkies on your way back. cheers mate!
Got smoked by GR tron in the finals.... got molested by an "uncounterable" "untouchatargetble" emrakul in game 3 so im not really a happy camper atm -____-. need everyones opinion on Avarice Totem ? thinking of abusing it w/ repeal im ditching the single Cyclonic rift for now and rocking w/ 4x repeal.
Yeah, I find GR Tron to be a brutal match up as well.
cbgirardo has recommended jester's cap...basically the plan is to hit one of their urza lands with a ghost quarter/tectonic edge and then jester the other 3 away.
...totem looks fun, but the problem is they very often have tons of mana by the time you really need to use totem...enough for them to pay the 5 to shift it back to your side of the table and gain back control of whatever it is you need. I get that you're hoping to repeal it before they have access to the mana...but I just don't see it working out as neatly as you'd hope (against GR Tron...not talking about other decks).
And I can't hardly imagine running my deck without a cyclonic. But maybe it's not working out as well for you for some reason as it has for me.
About Elves, Fish and Goblins...
Yeah, will become a Problem in teh future. Fish has been always bad for us, Elves depends on there Build (sometimes countering Collected Company is enough to set them back some Turns) and Goblins plays out like Burn i assume.
Don't we have a hard enough time just hitting UU with this deck, to fuss with anything that requires BB (well...besides phyrexian mana like dismember)? You'd want to hit that BB pretty early to clear the board from a fast aggro start...but then that holds us back on getting enough U sources for our counters/draw/bounce.
It just sounds like a mess to me.
I do understand that we would be playing talismans, shock/fetch lands and Urborg...but is that enough to consistently hit BB early enough, while still having access to enough U while still attempting to assemble tron?
This would also hurt us in other ways, as we'd be adding lands that damage us, shortening our life totals against some of the very decks we struggle with the most...as well as it'd cut some of our basic lands making blood moon hurt us a heck of a lot more than it currently does.
Seems like a lot of work and like a lot of things would have to fall into place for us...though I am interested in having someone test these things out.
Also, why wouldn't we play Damnation over Languish? Is it just because Languish doesn't hit our wurms/batterskulls and sundering titans?
I guess I'm just not quite sold yet on a build that requires tons of B mana. hehe I'm going to sit back and let you guys test it out to help convince me!
Black isn't a color worth splashing for, besides for perhaps dismembers, I say if you want to play tron with more broad wipes, go UW Gifts Tron. It has a lot of removal, more then what black can offer as a color.
What kind of hands do people keep without blue sources? Personally, I'll mulligan basically any 6 or 7 card hand without a blue source unless it has a really clear path to turn 3 tron + a major threat.
Yeah the removal that White provides is much better then what black offers. Say even if you do splash black into the deck, you will have to create another good win condition just like Gifts > Unburial Rites > Iona, unless you can find a better win con in black, UW Gifts Tron is the next best thing, if you want to stay control as Mono U Tron.
Hey, I have been using MonoU Tron for a while and I haven't been doing well. I need some advice on which cards to remove and what cards should replace them. Thanks!
do you think Ugin, the Spirit Dragon will be dropping in Price?
It's quite expensive at 25$+ nowadays.
Green @ it's best
Youtube Channel
My stream:
www.twitch.tv/pierakor
My Disco:
https://discord.gg/gTt6xHd
Twin is a lot more frightening as a tempo deck that can burn you out than as a combo deck for Mono-U Tron.
Also, a question. How do people find the Scapeshift matchup? I got wrecked by it tonight.
assembling tron shouldn't be your priority when facing scapeshift..always have 2-3 blue mana up available..be in control of your own end step since they like bouncing a blue source with a cryptic command at the end of your turn so they can win in a counter war to resolve scapeshift on their turn..
sundering titan hurts them..
spell spierce and negate are good here..
i'm sure a lot here can give you more tips on siding against it..i don't think its a very difficult matchup for us..
—Seal inscription
Staying at 20 life helps a lot since it slows the combo. Jamming random Wurmcoils/Ugin is not a good idea if you don't have enough counter backup, they can just cryptic bounce it. However, resolving mindslaver is game over if they have scapeshift (you play it sac all their lands and pass the turn. I guess you can also kill them with Valakut Triggers if you feel like it).
It is basically the same as against twin except they run more conters but don't threaten the life total as much.
I also want to disagree with some things that have been said with reguards to the twin combo: sure we have lots of counters and resolving the combo is really hard against us. We also have lots of colorless mana, and after playtesting a lot against twin (both the UTron and Twin side) I think it is wrong to board out the combo (board out 2 twins, 2-3 exarcs), since a combo protected by dispel and maybe another counter can be hard to fight from the UTron side if we don't have enough blue sources. If the twin player keeps in bolts and attacks life total in the meantime, the match can be tricky.
I feel the same against UWR control, which is a good matchup but can just burn us out quickly. Against Scapeshift, the fact that he will always have 4+ free mana when trying to go for the kill makes condescend a really expensive counter and plays like EoT Cryptic bounce a land (blue source or single Tron piece to break the tron, forcing us to use a counter or lose a lot of mana) can put us on the back foot to fight the combo.
In these matchups, the level of the pilots and quality of sideboarding play a huge role (twin player siding out to blue moon justs offers us the game. Same thing for UWR if they side out all their burn spells). So you should never underestimate your opponent and ocnsider the matchup a free win (it may be 60-40 but you still have to fight for it), just anticipate what they may do in the following turns and keep up mana/counters accordingly
Currently Playing:
Modern Grixis Shadow, Storm
Legacy: Grixis Delver, Sneak and Show
Duel Commander: Kess High Tide
Vintage Big blue(MTGO)
Yep, T2 Snapcaster Mage is sometimes enough to finish us off.
Also unanswered Vendilion Clique or Bolt-Snap-Bolt are devastating sometimes .
I found myself in a lot of situtations were i was stuck on 2 Lands, had just colorless Bombs in hand or was wrecked by not finding any Counter.
Green @ it's best
Or when you let a Pestermite/Exarch resolve, forgetting that it can tap down your lone blue source. So embarrassing.
Thanks, CBG, that's exactly what I was looking for. Outside of insisting that one untaps their lands, is there anything the opponent can do to legally slow down that process? My understanding is that in a situation like this the opponent can be called for slow play/stalling if they object to this type of shortcutting.
Legacy: BUWRG Manaless Dredge
Modern Decks:
Mono U FookUup Tron
UW BMT (Bauble Mill Trap) http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/615305-bauble-mill-trap
*MINDSLAVER ACTIVATED* Please Go grab me a glass of water while i check your hand and Sideboards... oh and while your at it please go grab a couple of twinkies on your way back. cheers mate!
Yeah, I find GR Tron to be a brutal match up as well.
cbgirardo has recommended jester's cap...basically the plan is to hit one of their urza lands with a ghost quarter/tectonic edge and then jester the other 3 away.
...totem looks fun, but the problem is they very often have tons of mana by the time you really need to use totem...enough for them to pay the 5 to shift it back to your side of the table and gain back control of whatever it is you need. I get that you're hoping to repeal it before they have access to the mana...but I just don't see it working out as neatly as you'd hope (against GR Tron...not talking about other decks).
And I can't hardly imagine running my deck without a cyclonic. But maybe it's not working out as well for you for some reason as it has for me.
Countering Sakura-Tribe Elder, Expedition Map, Sylvan Scrying, Search for Tomorrow puts them back alot.
About Elves, Fish and Goblins...
Yeah, will become a Problem in teh future. Fish has been always bad for us, Elves depends on there Build (sometimes countering Collected Company is enough to set them back some Turns) and Goblins plays out like Burn i assume.
Green @ it's best
It just sounds like a mess to me.
I do understand that we would be playing talismans, shock/fetch lands and Urborg...but is that enough to consistently hit BB early enough, while still having access to enough U while still attempting to assemble tron?
This would also hurt us in other ways, as we'd be adding lands that damage us, shortening our life totals against some of the very decks we struggle with the most...as well as it'd cut some of our basic lands making blood moon hurt us a heck of a lot more than it currently does.
Seems like a lot of work and like a lot of things would have to fall into place for us...though I am interested in having someone test these things out.
Also, why wouldn't we play Damnation over Languish? Is it just because Languish doesn't hit our wurms/batterskulls and sundering titans?
I guess I'm just not quite sold yet on a build that requires tons of B mana. hehe I'm going to sit back and let you guys test it out to help convince me!
Legacy: BUWRG Manaless Dredge
Sorry I'm old and have good stuff.
Also cards like Wrath Of God, Day Of Judgment and Supreme Verdict.
Legacy: BUWRG Manaless Dredge
Here is my deck
3x Treasure Mage
1x Silent Arbiter
4x Expedition Map
8x Island
4x Repeal
4x Urza's Mine
4x Urza's Tower
2x Wurmcoil Engine
4x Urza's Power Plant
4x Thirst for Knowledge
1x Tomb of the Spirit Dragon
2x Dismember
3x Talisman of Dominance
2x Mindslaver
1x Sundering Titan
1x Academy Ruins
1x Solemn Simulacrum
2x Spell Snare
1x Platinum Angel
1x Karn Liberated
2x Condescend
1x Aetherize
1x Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1x Spell Burst
1x Blightsteel Colossus
1x Oblivion Stone
1x Treasure Mage
1x Spellskite
1x All Is Dust
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Wurmcoil Engine
2x Squelch
1x Fabricate
1x Aetherize
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Thassa, God of the Sea
1x Artisan of Kozilek
1x Tectonic Edge
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Cyclonic Rift