I tried out a Fabricate U/B list that played 1x Thopter Foundry and Sword. They are both 2 cmc and don't interact with the normal tutor creatures (Trinket/Treasures mage) we like to play so it was always very sketchy getting the combo online before dying to creature beats or storm or whatever. I feel like Thopter Foundry has its home in an Ensnaring Bridge deck, draw a card, swing out, cast that card, pass to opponent.
was thinking more of gifts than fabricate
ruin back foundry. like if youre not on slaver lock mana yet
should note ive never played utron im just doing research because i like the deck.. having troubles with consistency though.
Just used my Christmas money to pick up a Tron maindeck (ShockTroopa's list in OP). Only have a few sideboard cards (Spellkites, Dismembers, Spell Pierce).
I'm not only new to the deck but also completely new to the format (I've only ever played Legacy) so please excuse me if some of these questions have been answered one too many times by now.
-Right now I have four Treasure Mages in the main, but running two also seems to be popular. Would it be worth sacrificing a bit of consistency to squeeze in a few more tech cards?
-Maindeck Dismembers seem to be popular- is it something that I should try to include?
-How necessary is Snapcaster? I can pick one or two up if need be.
Any other thoughts on how I should edit the maindeck would also be appreciated, I just netdecked OP so I'd at least have a sort of base to build off of.
Also, a bit of a more general question and maybe there's no real answer, but what would be the best things to include in a "generic" sideboard? I'm on break right now and don't know what the local meta in my college town is like (my friends who play Magic there aren't much help since they haven't been going to tourneys the past few weeks).
So a couple of things. First welcome to the best deck in modern if you devote the effort to learning it. The important thing to remember is this thread is old, those original lists are from 2013-2015 and shok created the deck around 2011. Modern was a completely different place and they should be looked at as such. 4 treasure mages hasnt been popular since those times, mainly because the prevalence of jund has slipped, right now two slots are used for your 3 mana 2/2 tutor body. Currently there are two "camps" of blue tron. One (shok, myself, others) is on the trinket mage package where you run 1 treasure mage, 1 trinket mage and your targets are chalice,ee,and walking ballista in the main. The other is more traditional and runs two treasure mages (pie, others).
Some run maindeck dismember as a hedge for eldrazi but it depends on your meta, main deck spatial contortion is also ok if you expect humans, affinity, or fast aggro or neither and just use ballista.
A lot of lists run 1 snap (pie, shok, myself, others) its strong in a lot of matchups but isnt super necessary or a key piece of the deck, that would be slaver.
As for lists, look for recent lists, because the deck is old your going to find stuff that really out of date and for different moderns. Shok and pie stream on twitch pretty regularly, and pie has a youtube where he posts his games (its under pierakorMTGO). Also check mtggoldfish for some of shoks lists in the modern challenge he top 8's fairly regularly or random 5-0s when wizards posts them. The thing about blue tron, and why a lot of people love it, is once you have the core (slaver, wurmcoil, condescend, thirst, remand, repeal) the rest is all flex mostly. Blue tron is one of the most flexible decks in modern which is why you see a lot of one-ofs in lists. As for sideboard its 15 flex cards, everyone has a unique sideboard. Popular options include surgical, h. recall, dismember, spatial contortion, grafdiggers cage, chalice of the void, engineered explosives, ect. It just depends on what is in your meta or what you care about and what your main looks like. For example if I am running trinket mage i might put tormod's crypt or relic in my board.
Lastly, the board is pretty active so ask away and someone will answer.
I'm new to this forum but have been practicing a ton with UTron. in my last 4 leagues combined I am 13-5 and am currently 3-0 in one of them. Here is my list. I am incredibly happy with it.
9 Artifact
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Expedition Map
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Mindslaver
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Academy Ruins
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Island
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 River of Tears
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Tolaria West
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Field of Ruin
1 Planeswalker
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
15 Sideboard
SB: 1 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Nimble Obstructionist
SB: 2 Spreading Seas
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 2 Spatial Contortion
SB: 2 Dismember
SB: 1 Negate
SB: 1 All Is Dust
Not sure why only Shok uses a gifts in the main. Card has been fire. Also the obstructionists have been incredible. Not only do they shut off triggered and activated abilities while cycling, they also provide a flash body in the air, which is great against aggro and has won me multiple games against shadow decks.
All is dust is there as a hedge against things like humans and merfolk, which are horrid matchups.
Otherwise the list is pretty stock but I've really liked the burst and commit, both of which have been awesome. after tons of testing, I am not a fan of 3 repeal and remand and think the list is a lot smoother with 2 of each. Each of them can be pretty bad in certain matchups so 3 is a bit much IMO.
I am super happy with this list and as of right now, probably wouldn't change anything.
Also, there is nothing greater than watching your UW opponent try to field of ruin our lands.
I have no prepared sideboard plan for exact card counts in each matchup, but make them up as I go.
For instance vs the new humans deck I might remove all my countermagic and go:
-1 Chalice of the Void
-3 Remand
-4 Condescend
-1 Spell Burst
+3 Spatial Contortion
+2 Dismember
+1 Ugin, The Spirit Dragon
+2 Nimble Obstructionist
+1 Wurmcoil Engine
Against eldrazi tron I suppose I go something like this:
-2 Chalice of the Void
-1 Ugin, the spirit Dragon
-1 Expedition Map
-2 Treasure Mage
-1 Spell Burst
-1 Telling Time
-1 Sundering Titan
+1 Wurmcoil Engine
+2 Dismember
+2 Nimble Obstructionist
+2 Squelch (depending on if I expect relics)
+2 Spreading Seas
UR Storm:
-1 Platinum Angel
-1 Sundering Titan
-1 Oblivion Stone
-1 Wurmcoil Engine
-1 Search for Azcanta
-1 Remand
-1 Treasure Mage
-1 Crucible of worlds
-1 Solemn Simulacrum
+2 Nimble Obstructionist
+2 Dismember
+2 Chalice of the void
+3 Spatial Contortion
Even without a plan for each matchup I think I side pretty much the same every time for each deck. However since there there is so much variation between decks of the same archetype I never really sat down and wrote a sideboard guide.
Edit: Commit is one of those magical cards that does something in every matchup, and can act as flexible cards when I need to make larger adjustments from the sideboard.
I went 3-1 overall for the evening (6-3 for games).
Match 1 - Goat Tribal (2 - 0)
- Game 1: He got mana screwed, not that it would have mattered much... He sat on 1 mana for about 4 turns, allowing me to get a Mindslaver off T4 without any concern. From there, I landed big creature threats and lit up the board.
- Game 2: He had better luck with his mana, but I ran into a bunch of board removal and counter. The board stayed empty, but for his few enchantments that he couldn't get to run with me not allowing creatures to enter or stay on the field on his side.
There wasn't much takeaway from this Match, as his kitchen table Goat Tribal deck was no match for the machine...
Match 2 - Grixis Drelver (0 - 2)
- Game 1: He seemed to have a perfect hand and draw scheme going, meanwhile I had a few different issues with missing land drops and not finding the cards I wanted for the lands I did have.
- Game 2: He had a fairly slow start, not really starting to ramp until T3. This gave me the time I needed to have my counter engine online and I kept the game tight and flowing in a controlled state. Unfortunately, I made a terribly huge misplay, to cap off a few smaller misplays, and lost the game/match. With lethal on board and the appropriate bounce spells/counters in hand, I sequenced the attack and bounce incorrectly, allowing him to counter swing for lethal. A head shaking/bashing misplay on multiple turns leading up to that loss. I deserved it.
Side In - Dismember (2), Hangarback Walker, Sundering Titan, Tectonic Edge
Side Out - Gifts Ungiven, Platinum Angel, Gemstone Caverns, Spell Burst, Torrential Gearhulk
This match should have gone to Game 3, but I lost Game 2. The match felt fairly even overall, if not slightly in my favor, after sideboarding.
Match 3 - Merfolk (3 - 1)
- Game 1: A very tight game. I was able to survive the initial Merfolk flood, getting Tron online by T4. From there, I overloaded a Rift and kept his side of the board fairly clean, until I ran out of bounce, counter, and didn't hit any of my draw engines. I was just barely able to get in for lethal.
- Game 2: I YOLO'ed an Ugin T4, while he only had 1 mana open, right into a Ceremonious Rejection... From there, I again made a few blunders, akin to the prior Delver match, involving a Gifts Ungiven, Engineered Explosives, and so on. Ultimately, he eked out a victory.
- Game 3: I ran out a Platinum Angel T3, while he was completely tapped out. This was swiftly met with, "Whelp, that's game. I have no way to deal with that." He went on to explain he sided-out his only answer to a resolved Angel, hoping I wouldn't hit it. Quickest game I've ever played on Tron...
Side In - Hangarback Walker, Dismember (2), Tectonic Edge
Side Out - Gifts Ungiven, Spell Burst, Mindslaver, Gemstone Caverns
This was a better matchup than I anticipated. It felt far more even/favorable than I would have imagined.
Match 4 - Merfolk (Homebrew) (2 - 0)
- Game 1: He couldn't generate near enough threats to make me concerned and I just went in with creature beats.
- Game 2: Again, he couldn't generate near enough threats. With 2 Mindslavers in hand and not enough for the lock, I started the chain, hoping to run into a draw that would get me the land I needed. Activated Mindslaver 1, drew into the land I needed, and started the lock with Mindslaver 2. Enter the humorous exchange of, "So, you're just going to continue to control my turn over and over?" "Correct. I'll control you on a loop until you either mill yourself with turns or I find a way to kill you with your own deck..." "Oh...okay..." I waited a second, expecting a scoop, but no dice! As it was getting late and I had creature threats in hand, I locked him out for 2 more turns, until the board and his hand were at a point that I could YOLO beats without concern.
Again, not much takeaway from this matchup, as his homebrew deck wasn't any concern... Not exactly sure how he pulled off 2 wins with this deck in the first place.
Overall takeaways:
1) I had toyed around with Search for Azcanta against my buddy who plays Free Win Red and UW Control/Poly. Against those 2 grindy control decks, the card was amazing. Versus the decks I played at the LGS, I'm glad I removed it from the deck. There was absolutely no need or desire for that card against the creature based decks I faced. This will remain out of the deck and may only enter as a SB addition in the future.
2) Creature removal felt decent, but I wanted more board wipe. In the delver matchup, post side-board, I felt that I had the appropriate amount of bounce, removal, and wipe, for the most part. Another EE would have been good, but that's likely due to me completely dorking up that play sequence in the first place. Against Merfolk though, I would have definitely appreciated another EE. I'm going to throw an EE in the side. My personal feeling is that small creature aggro decks are the most difficult matchups (Affinity, Merfolk, Elves, etc.). I'd rather dump the Hurkyl's Recall for another EE to deal with those matchups.
3) Chalice of the Void...where were you?!?! Do you know how many 1 CMC cards Delver has in the deck? A metric s-ton. Do you know how many 2 drops Merfolk has in the deck? Same answer. I would very much liked to have actually seen a Chalice during either of those games. A single copy wasn't cutting it. Whether to run 2 MB or mix it up, I'm unsure at this point, but I definitely think that at least 2 should be in the deck.
4) Gifts Ungiven was underwhelming. I've played with Epiphany at the Drownyard as well and I'm not a fan of my opponent choosing the cards, but Gifts definitely felt like a crappier choice of those 2 cards. With Epiphany, I at least get to make the piles, but my card choice is potentially limited by not being able to search, but rather flip over cards from the top. Nonetheless, I never found myself hoping for either card to appear or missing that Gifts didn't appear or that Epiphany wasn't in the deck. The number of draw engines and tutors without either Epiphany or Gifts in the deck feels just fine.
5) Spatial Contortion MB was actually a surprising improvement (though maybe not surprising given the matchups). Having the spot removal MB that can also double as a Wurmcoil buff was a welcome addition. Previously I did not play it MB, but kept it in the side with 2 x Dismember, opting for more bounce and counter options in the MB. I think I'll continue with it MB to see how it fares for a greater variety of matchups.
Yea, I 100% agree about 2 chalices mainboard - this card is much stronger main then after sideboarding (I'm plain 2 main and 1 sideboard).
I wonder if any of You hang around with 25 land version? for me 24 is often too low - I found that I'm mulliganing too much beacouse of mana problems.
There is an exotic option to play 61 card deck (for 1 special gemstone caverns) but this equal in losing consistency
I'm also curious about if any of You run fabricate in place of trinket mage? Its oldschool tech but with batterskull (in place of the 2nd wurmcoil) it gives me better times against fast aggro/burn decks - fabricate doesn't gives us a body but it's a lot more versatile then trinket.
(I'm on 25 land version with 2 ballistas and 2 chalices mainboard - rest is stock)
Your thoughts?
fabricate doesnt leave a body and batterskull dies to kcommand, push, and isn't big enough to stop the formats big creatures like tasigur, angler, tks smasher and goyf
Unfortunately my paycheck somehow got lost so now I have to wait a week to get it corrected. I won't be able to play for a week anyways since the local card store is undergoing a pretty major change (the bookstore they shared space with is closing) but I'd still like to have something playable in the meantime. I do intend to pick up Ballista, EE, and some Chalices at some point (probably only one Chalice for the main, sideboard ones will have to wait until the distant future) but for now this is the list I'll try and run in the meantime.
I kept asking around about the local meta and apparently there's a decent bit of variety- apparently I can mostly expect to see merfolk, abzan, lantern, tron, zombies, infect, bw control, and sometimes humans and titanshift. I tried to build my sideboard with that in mind but don't really know enough about any of the matchups to have much confidence in doing so successfully.
You're better off with 2-3 spatials in the main instead of the dismembers. 3 Dismembers seem way too many and painful to cast. You should replace the Tect edge with Field of Ruin, it's pretty much strictly better. If you really want to run that 1 random talisman, you might as well switch it to Talisman of Dominance so it can make Dismembers less painful. Spell Pierces don't seem any good, since most of the time we're choked on blue anyway and U vs 1U isn't much of a difference. Negate is probably better most of the time. Or even Mana Leak if you're expecting to face a lot of aggro/creatures.
Your next most cost($) effective upgrade is probably either Ugin, or a Ballista, and then 2 Chalices. I'm not sure how good EE is for it's $$ to effectiveness ratio.
fabricate doesnt leave a body and batterskull dies to kcommand, push, and isn't big enough to stop the formats big creatures like tasigur, angler, tks smasher and goyf
OkoSheep obvious things are just obvious (do we really need to talk about them?) - the same I can tell about trinket/treasure mages (which can at best stop only fastaggrolike creatures) but I won't tell this, beacuse it's trival thing.
Batterskull equipped to treasure/snapcaster mage (or any other guy from the deck) can take out any big creature to be honest
I don't know How You feel this - but for me the 1 mana difference in batterskull/wurmcoil sometimes is: to live or to die next turn.
You've got the point about fatal push - with all creature threats we just blank this card - that's why I'm on 2 chalices of the void to cut these 1CMC things.
Fabricate is just pure versatility - ofc "the body" thing often means that we can't tappout for fabri and pass, but fetching any artifact from the board everytime is very powerful and this can be thing to discuss.
I see that Admarant like the card too. I 100% agree that's a bit oldschool right now, but every card got thier +'s and -'s.
So PLZ let's talk about cards and reasoning behind them and don't use trivial arguments like "dies to bolt/push" or "can't kill X"
The 2/2 body is farm more versatile than the abilty to get o-stone or batterskull, especially against aggro, like you just said.
Yes the things I said are obvious, but they are reasons. It's like saying if I were to say Lightning Bolt is better than Shock because it does 3 damage instead of 2, and you were to tell me that's not a good argument because it's too obvious. I'm not going to bother arguing with that kind of logic, so you can keep using your "Shock"
If You make a comparsion about trinket mage-fabricate and You say the same about lightning bolt-shock (where bolt is ofc "strictly better" shock) - You miss the whole thing. If You really think that this is that simple so I must say that You are wrong Man (heh Yea, pointing someone mistake on internet is an invitation to bullstorm)
so let's end this pointless talking I will keep using my "shock" :D:D:D
I think the point is, fabricate has been discussed ad naseum on here and the general conclusion is, it's an unnecessary addition because the mages (trinket, treasure, etc) offer the tutor ability you need + a creature body. Thus, in this deck they are better and fulfill the role you're using fabricate for.
For generating card advantage, fabricate is also overshadowed completely by tons of other options.
Therefore, devoting space to fabricate is a suboptimal choice because it is occupying space that is needed by other cards, while fulfilling a role that is accomplished more efficiently by a number of other cards.
- Sundering Titan and Platinum Angel are both fine cards, but i've always struggled with both. Platinum angel would always get Path'ed; Sundering Titan would sometimes do more damage to me than to my opponent. I think bringing them out of the board was the correct choice for me (Landing sundering titan and leaving the 4-colour Scapeshift player with just 2 basic islands was mindblowing
Sundering Titan can be argued, but I think Platinum Angel should definitely be mainboard. It is vulnerable without a chalice to back it up, but a lot of the times where I tutor for it or play it, it's my last resort. It's there to win you games you have no business winning, and there will be some games where the opponent simply can't beat it.
If want to keep playing Crucible, you might consider running a copy of Gifts along with it. There are a lot of trap packages you can create with crucible.
I think the point is, fabricate has been discussed ad naseum on here and the general conclusion is, it's an unnecessary
Pretty much this. The question of "Why don't we play Karn/BigEldrazi/TKS/Tolaria/White/Xcard?" pop up so often that a lot of the older players don't bother answering them anymore.
T Mage vs Fabricate has been a back and forth over the years for me. It just depends on how many good blocks you will get out of the body and how many bullets you have to hit with Fabricate. Before Death's Shadow I was playing Fabricate for some time but I feel like being able to block a Shadow, Tasigur, Angler, Goyf, etc matters too much right now. There is definitely metagames where Fabricate is strictly better!
I've been playing a list close to pierakor's version and have been having great success with it. I spent 91 tickets to build a budget list and won my way to the complete list and 200 extra tickets (got lucky when opening some chests).
I have to say, the best card in the deck is Chalice of the Void. It makes Wurmcoil Engine unbeatable and against some decks it's basically gg.
The one-of-ness of the list is kinda awkward. Most games I'm thinking: "If I draw Ugin/Cyclonic Rift/Oblivion Stone/X I win.". This causes an idea that there's always some tweaking to do. Like, to play a second Ugin or another Oblivion Stone. As result of that, testing changes are that much harder. How many games do you have to play to say that Walking Ballista is good, if you only draw every other game?
I love the deck and I winning a lot with it. But I have literally zero ideas on how to make it better. LOL
As result of that, testing changes are that much harder. How many games do you have to play to say that Walking Ballista is good, if you only draw every other game?
I usually compare it to whatever card I'm replacing. If I draw a ballista, I ask myself if it would be better if it were a Spatial or a Solemn right now. Same goes for Gearhulk=Titan, Remand=Manaleak=SupremeWill, and boardwipes.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
was thinking more of gifts than fabricate
ruin back foundry. like if youre not on slaver lock mana yet
should note ive never played utron im just doing research because i like the deck.. having troubles with consistency though.
I'm not only new to the deck but also completely new to the format (I've only ever played Legacy) so please excuse me if some of these questions have been answered one too many times by now.
-Right now I have four Treasure Mages in the main, but running two also seems to be popular. Would it be worth sacrificing a bit of consistency to squeeze in a few more tech cards?
-Maindeck Dismembers seem to be popular- is it something that I should try to include?
-How necessary is Snapcaster? I can pick one or two up if need be.
Any other thoughts on how I should edit the maindeck would also be appreciated, I just netdecked OP so I'd at least have a sort of base to build off of.
Also, a bit of a more general question and maybe there's no real answer, but what would be the best things to include in a "generic" sideboard? I'm on break right now and don't know what the local meta in my college town is like (my friends who play Magic there aren't much help since they haven't been going to tourneys the past few weeks).
Some run maindeck dismember as a hedge for eldrazi but it depends on your meta, main deck spatial contortion is also ok if you expect humans, affinity, or fast aggro or neither and just use ballista.
A lot of lists run 1 snap (pie, shok, myself, others) its strong in a lot of matchups but isnt super necessary or a key piece of the deck, that would be slaver.
As for lists, look for recent lists, because the deck is old your going to find stuff that really out of date and for different moderns. Shok and pie stream on twitch pretty regularly, and pie has a youtube where he posts his games (its under pierakorMTGO). Also check mtggoldfish for some of shoks lists in the modern challenge he top 8's fairly regularly or random 5-0s when wizards posts them. The thing about blue tron, and why a lot of people love it, is once you have the core (slaver, wurmcoil, condescend, thirst, remand, repeal) the rest is all flex mostly. Blue tron is one of the most flexible decks in modern which is why you see a lot of one-ofs in lists. As for sideboard its 15 flex cards, everyone has a unique sideboard. Popular options include surgical, h. recall, dismember, spatial contortion, grafdiggers cage, chalice of the void, engineered explosives, ect. It just depends on what is in your meta or what you care about and what your main looks like. For example if I am running trinket mage i might put tormod's crypt or relic in my board.
Lastly, the board is pretty active so ask away and someone will answer.
9 Artifact
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Expedition Map
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Mindslaver
1 Talisman of Dominance
8 Creature
1 Walking Ballista
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Treasure Mage
1 Trinket Mage
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Platinum Angel
1 Sundering Titan
18 Instant
4 Condescend
2 Repeal
1 Cyclonic Rift
2 Remand
1 Supreme Will
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Dismember
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Commit
1 Spell Burst
24 Land
1 Academy Ruins
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Island
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 River of Tears
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Tolaria West
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Field of Ruin
1 Planeswalker
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
15 Sideboard
SB: 1 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Nimble Obstructionist
SB: 2 Spreading Seas
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 2 Spatial Contortion
SB: 2 Dismember
SB: 1 Negate
SB: 1 All Is Dust
Not sure why only Shok uses a gifts in the main. Card has been fire. Also the obstructionists have been incredible. Not only do they shut off triggered and activated abilities while cycling, they also provide a flash body in the air, which is great against aggro and has won me multiple games against shadow decks.
All is dust is there as a hedge against things like humans and merfolk, which are horrid matchups.
Otherwise the list is pretty stock but I've really liked the burst and commit, both of which have been awesome. after tons of testing, I am not a fan of 3 repeal and remand and think the list is a lot smoother with 2 of each. Each of them can be pretty bad in certain matchups so 3 is a bit much IMO.
I am super happy with this list and as of right now, probably wouldn't change anything.
Also, there is nothing greater than watching your UW opponent try to field of ruin our lands.
Modern: Mono U Tron, Ajundi, Ad Nauseam, TITI Moon, GR Ponza, 5C Humans
Legacy: Lands, Mono Red Sneak, 4C Loam
4 Condescend
3 Commit//Memory
3 Remand
1 Telling Time
1 Spell Burst
Selection
4 Expedition Map
4 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Treasure Mage
2 Search for Azcanta
Silver-Bullets
2 Oblivion Stone
1 Walking Ballista
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Mindslaver
1 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Platinum Angel
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Sundering Titan
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Crucible of Worlds
Lands
7 Island
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Tower
4 Urza's Power Plant
1 Academy Ruins
1 Field of Ruin
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Buried Ruin
2 Dismember
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Spatial Contortion
2 Spreading Seas
1 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Nimble Obstructionist
2 Squelch
I have no prepared sideboard plan for exact card counts in each matchup, but make them up as I go.
For instance vs the new humans deck I might remove all my countermagic and go:
-1 Chalice of the Void
-3 Remand
-4 Condescend
-1 Spell Burst
+3 Spatial Contortion
+2 Dismember
+1 Ugin, The Spirit Dragon
+2 Nimble Obstructionist
+1 Wurmcoil Engine
Against eldrazi tron I suppose I go something like this:
-2 Chalice of the Void
-1 Ugin, the spirit Dragon
-1 Expedition Map
-2 Treasure Mage
-1 Spell Burst
-1 Telling Time
-1 Sundering Titan
+1 Wurmcoil Engine
+2 Dismember
+2 Nimble Obstructionist
+2 Squelch (depending on if I expect relics)
+2 Spreading Seas
UR Storm:
-1 Platinum Angel
-1 Sundering Titan
-1 Oblivion Stone
-1 Wurmcoil Engine
-1 Search for Azcanta
-1 Remand
-1 Treasure Mage
-1 Crucible of worlds
-1 Solemn Simulacrum
+2 Nimble Obstructionist
+2 Dismember
+2 Chalice of the void
+3 Spatial Contortion
Even without a plan for each matchup I think I side pretty much the same every time for each deck. However since there there is so much variation between decks of the same archetype I never really sat down and wrote a sideboard guide.
Edit: Commit is one of those magical cards that does something in every matchup, and can act as flexible cards when I need to make larger adjustments from the sideboard.
1 Platinum Angel
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Treasure Mage
1 Trinket Mage
1 Walking Ballista
2 Wurmcoil Engine
Instants (18):
4 Condescend
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Gifts Ungiven
2 Remand
2 Repeal
2 Spatial Contortion
1 Spell Burst
1 Supreme Will
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Expedition Map
1 Mindslaver
1 Oblivion Stone
Planeswalkers (1):
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Lands (24):
1 Academy Ruins
1 Field of Ruin
1 Gemstone Caverns
6 Island
1 Oboro, Palace in the Coulds
1 River of Tears
1 Tolaria West
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plan
4 Urza's Tower
1 Hangarback Walker
1 Sundering Titan
2 Dismember
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Negate
1 Spell Snare
1 Squelch
2 Summary Dismissal
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Mindslaver
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Tectonic Edge
I went 3-1 overall for the evening (6-3 for games).
Match 1 - Goat Tribal (2 - 0)
- Game 1: He got mana screwed, not that it would have mattered much... He sat on 1 mana for about 4 turns, allowing me to get a Mindslaver off T4 without any concern. From there, I landed big creature threats and lit up the board.
- Game 2: He had better luck with his mana, but I ran into a bunch of board removal and counter. The board stayed empty, but for his few enchantments that he couldn't get to run with me not allowing creatures to enter or stay on the field on his side.
There wasn't much takeaway from this Match, as his kitchen table Goat Tribal deck was no match for the machine...
Match 2 - Grixis Drelver (0 - 2)
- Game 1: He seemed to have a perfect hand and draw scheme going, meanwhile I had a few different issues with missing land drops and not finding the cards I wanted for the lands I did have.
- Game 2: He had a fairly slow start, not really starting to ramp until T3. This gave me the time I needed to have my counter engine online and I kept the game tight and flowing in a controlled state. Unfortunately, I made a terribly huge misplay, to cap off a few smaller misplays, and lost the game/match. With lethal on board and the appropriate bounce spells/counters in hand, I sequenced the attack and bounce incorrectly, allowing him to counter swing for lethal. A head shaking/bashing misplay on multiple turns leading up to that loss. I deserved it.
Side In - Dismember (2), Hangarback Walker, Sundering Titan, Tectonic Edge
Side Out - Gifts Ungiven, Platinum Angel, Gemstone Caverns, Spell Burst, Torrential Gearhulk
This match should have gone to Game 3, but I lost Game 2. The match felt fairly even overall, if not slightly in my favor, after sideboarding.
Match 3 - Merfolk (3 - 1)
- Game 1: A very tight game. I was able to survive the initial Merfolk flood, getting Tron online by T4. From there, I overloaded a Rift and kept his side of the board fairly clean, until I ran out of bounce, counter, and didn't hit any of my draw engines. I was just barely able to get in for lethal.
- Game 2: I YOLO'ed an Ugin T4, while he only had 1 mana open, right into a Ceremonious Rejection... From there, I again made a few blunders, akin to the prior Delver match, involving a Gifts Ungiven, Engineered Explosives, and so on. Ultimately, he eked out a victory.
- Game 3: I ran out a Platinum Angel T3, while he was completely tapped out. This was swiftly met with, "Whelp, that's game. I have no way to deal with that." He went on to explain he sided-out his only answer to a resolved Angel, hoping I wouldn't hit it. Quickest game I've ever played on Tron...
Side In - Hangarback Walker, Dismember (2), Tectonic Edge
Side Out - Gifts Ungiven, Spell Burst, Mindslaver, Gemstone Caverns
This was a better matchup than I anticipated. It felt far more even/favorable than I would have imagined.
Match 4 - Merfolk (Homebrew) (2 - 0)
- Game 1: He couldn't generate near enough threats to make me concerned and I just went in with creature beats.
- Game 2: Again, he couldn't generate near enough threats. With 2 Mindslavers in hand and not enough for the lock, I started the chain, hoping to run into a draw that would get me the land I needed. Activated Mindslaver 1, drew into the land I needed, and started the lock with Mindslaver 2. Enter the humorous exchange of, "So, you're just going to continue to control my turn over and over?" "Correct. I'll control you on a loop until you either mill yourself with turns or I find a way to kill you with your own deck..." "Oh...okay..." I waited a second, expecting a scoop, but no dice! As it was getting late and I had creature threats in hand, I locked him out for 2 more turns, until the board and his hand were at a point that I could YOLO beats without concern.
Again, not much takeaway from this matchup, as his homebrew deck wasn't any concern... Not exactly sure how he pulled off 2 wins with this deck in the first place.
Overall takeaways:
1) I had toyed around with Search for Azcanta against my buddy who plays Free Win Red and UW Control/Poly. Against those 2 grindy control decks, the card was amazing. Versus the decks I played at the LGS, I'm glad I removed it from the deck. There was absolutely no need or desire for that card against the creature based decks I faced. This will remain out of the deck and may only enter as a SB addition in the future.
2) Creature removal felt decent, but I wanted more board wipe. In the delver matchup, post side-board, I felt that I had the appropriate amount of bounce, removal, and wipe, for the most part. Another EE would have been good, but that's likely due to me completely dorking up that play sequence in the first place. Against Merfolk though, I would have definitely appreciated another EE. I'm going to throw an EE in the side. My personal feeling is that small creature aggro decks are the most difficult matchups (Affinity, Merfolk, Elves, etc.). I'd rather dump the Hurkyl's Recall for another EE to deal with those matchups.
3) Chalice of the Void...where were you?!?! Do you know how many 1 CMC cards Delver has in the deck? A metric s-ton. Do you know how many 2 drops Merfolk has in the deck? Same answer. I would very much liked to have actually seen a Chalice during either of those games. A single copy wasn't cutting it. Whether to run 2 MB or mix it up, I'm unsure at this point, but I definitely think that at least 2 should be in the deck.
4) Gifts Ungiven was underwhelming. I've played with Epiphany at the Drownyard as well and I'm not a fan of my opponent choosing the cards, but Gifts definitely felt like a crappier choice of those 2 cards. With Epiphany, I at least get to make the piles, but my card choice is potentially limited by not being able to search, but rather flip over cards from the top. Nonetheless, I never found myself hoping for either card to appear or missing that Gifts didn't appear or that Epiphany wasn't in the deck. The number of draw engines and tutors without either Epiphany or Gifts in the deck feels just fine.
5) Spatial Contortion MB was actually a surprising improvement (though maybe not surprising given the matchups). Having the spot removal MB that can also double as a Wurmcoil buff was a welcome addition. Previously I did not play it MB, but kept it in the side with 2 x Dismember, opting for more bounce and counter options in the MB. I think I'll continue with it MB to see how it fares for a greater variety of matchups.
I wonder if any of You hang around with 25 land version? for me 24 is often too low - I found that I'm mulliganing too much beacouse of mana problems.
There is an exotic option to play 61 card deck (for 1 special gemstone caverns) but this equal in losing consistency
I'm also curious about if any of You run fabricate in place of trinket mage? Its oldschool tech but with batterskull (in place of the 2nd wurmcoil) it gives me better times against fast aggro/burn decks - fabricate doesn't gives us a body but it's a lot more versatile then trinket.
(I'm on 25 land version with 2 ballistas and 2 chalices mainboard - rest is stock)
Your thoughts?
Unfortunately my paycheck somehow got lost so now I have to wait a week to get it corrected. I won't be able to play for a week anyways since the local card store is undergoing a pretty major change (the bookstore they shared space with is closing) but I'd still like to have something playable in the meantime. I do intend to pick up Ballista, EE, and some Chalices at some point (probably only one Chalice for the main, sideboard ones will have to wait until the distant future) but for now this is the list I'll try and run in the meantime.
2x Wurmcoil Engine
2x Solemn Simulacrum
2x Treasure Mage
1x Sundering Titan
1x Platinum Angel
Spells
4x Thirst for Knowledge
4x Condescend
3x Dismember
3x Remand
3x Repeal
1x Supreme Will
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Spell Burst
4x Expedition Map
2x Mindslaver
1x Oblivion Stone
1x Talisman of Progress
Lands
4x Urza's Mine
4x Urza's Tower
4x Urza's Power Plant
8x Island
1x River of Tears
1x Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1x Academy Ruins
1x Tectonic Edge
3x Spatial Contortion
3x Spell Pierce
2x Aetherspouts
2x Spreading Seas
1x Negate
1x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Spell Snare
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Field of Ruin
I kept asking around about the local meta and apparently there's a decent bit of variety- apparently I can mostly expect to see merfolk, abzan, lantern, tron, zombies, infect, bw control, and sometimes humans and titanshift. I tried to build my sideboard with that in mind but don't really know enough about any of the matchups to have much confidence in doing so successfully.
Your next most cost($) effective upgrade is probably either Ugin, or a Ballista, and then 2 Chalices. I'm not sure how good EE is for it's $$ to effectiveness ratio.
OkoSheep obvious things are just obvious (do we really need to talk about them?) - the same I can tell about trinket/treasure mages (which can at best stop only fastaggrolike creatures) but I won't tell this, beacuse it's trival thing.
Batterskull equipped to treasure/snapcaster mage (or any other guy from the deck) can take out any big creature to be honest
I don't know How You feel this - but for me the 1 mana difference in batterskull/wurmcoil sometimes is: to live or to die next turn.
You've got the point about fatal push - with all creature threats we just blank this card - that's why I'm on 2 chalices of the void to cut these 1CMC things.
Fabricate is just pure versatility - ofc "the body" thing often means that we can't tappout for fabri and pass, but fetching any artifact from the board everytime is very powerful and this can be thing to discuss.
I see that Admarant like the card too. I 100% agree that's a bit oldschool right now, but every card got thier +'s and -'s.
So PLZ let's talk about cards and reasoning behind them and don't use trivial arguments like "dies to bolt/push" or "can't kill X"
Yes the things I said are obvious, but they are reasons. It's like saying if I were to say Lightning Bolt is better than Shock because it does 3 damage instead of 2, and you were to tell me that's not a good argument because it's too obvious. I'm not going to bother arguing with that kind of logic, so you can keep using your "Shock"
so let's end this pointless talking
For generating card advantage, fabricate is also overshadowed completely by tons of other options.
Therefore, devoting space to fabricate is a suboptimal choice because it is occupying space that is needed by other cards, while fulfilling a role that is accomplished more efficiently by a number of other cards.
Sundering Titan can be argued, but I think Platinum Angel should definitely be mainboard. It is vulnerable without a chalice to back it up, but a lot of the times where I tutor for it or play it, it's my last resort. It's there to win you games you have no business winning, and there will be some games where the opponent simply can't beat it.
If want to keep playing Crucible, you might consider running a copy of Gifts along with it. There are a lot of trap packages you can create with crucible.
Pretty much this. The question of "Why don't we play Karn/BigEldrazi/TKS/Tolaria/White/Xcard?" pop up so often that a lot of the older players don't bother answering them anymore.
Youtube Channel
My stream:
www.twitch.tv/pierakor
My Disco:
https://discord.gg/gTt6xHd
I have to say, the best card in the deck is Chalice of the Void. It makes Wurmcoil Engine unbeatable and against some decks it's basically gg.
The one-of-ness of the list is kinda awkward. Most games I'm thinking: "If I draw Ugin/Cyclonic Rift/Oblivion Stone/X I win.". This causes an idea that there's always some tweaking to do. Like, to play a second Ugin or another Oblivion Stone. As result of that, testing changes are that much harder. How many games do you have to play to say that Walking Ballista is good, if you only draw every other game?
I love the deck and I winning a lot with it. But I have literally zero ideas on how to make it better. LOL
I usually compare it to whatever card I'm replacing. If I draw a ballista, I ask myself if it would be better if it were a Spatial or a Solemn right now. Same goes for Gearhulk=Titan, Remand=Manaleak=SupremeWill, and boardwipes.