I run 1 mindslaver for a long time (2nd one sometimes finds a slot in SB). It's bad against most creature aggro decks (against burn it's not that bad) - in game 1 We have to remember that with academy ruins and tron online it's good against anything
Against CoCo it's also a good trick (especially in game 1) I won one game against "infinite" life from finks/vizier combo (I've got 2 chalices online - on 1 and 2) and I just mill my opponent to death (there are more options - they play a lot sacrifice effects to clear their board or You can just combo-of and win with their own ballista :D)
I'm still not sure which if summary is better then nimble (it's at last a decent clock when needed).
That was one of my other thoughts - cutting Mindslaver to 1 MB and a 2nd SB. The creature package definitely seems quicker/more powerful than Slaver, on a sustained basis. However, being able to Slaver the opponent, even if only once or twice, as opposed to the infinite loop, can still have an extremely positive impact on our game.
I agree. I think 1 or 2 slaver is really dealers choice, but when you get a slaver off its almost always back breaking for the other player.
If you had to choose between having spatial or dismember in the board what would it be? Which of the 2 could we not live without? I wanna say dismember but I always feel a little salty whenever I cast it.
@Grim: I would say: dismember - It takes away almost all awful eldrazi / gideons and DS threats. Spatial is first card to cut when we will get some new powerful blue removal spell (ye - ha ha ha )
On another note, am I the only one who feels like Mindslaver is "almost" too slow for the meta? I mean I resolved it (the combo) like 1 time in probably 45 matches. The land hate is really present, meaning after assembling I usually play something big and then "lands die". That and I usually win with [card »
sundering titan[/card] or Ugin before even putting Mindslaver on the table; that or I loose before. I mean, the possibility is there so I'm not going to remove it, but it feels like often Mindslaver is gonna be a simple turn-stealer, and the game will go on.
All that said, I used to play 2 Mindslaver MB, then switched to 1 MB 1 SB and now it's only 1 MB. This card is simply bad against all CoCo and other aggro decks or ones that quickly empty their hand.
Was just wondering what you guys felt about it. I am not thinking about statistical theorical argument here, simply about the feeling you get from the meta.
I can share your experience here regarding the online meta, I am currently playing a 1-main 1-sb splitof Mindslaver and I am currently testing a lot of things online for the next bigger tournament (>500ppl) in January like a second Ugin, Gearhulk and even Karn.
My FNM meta is perfect for slaver, a lot of mid-lategame Decks. I finished 3-1 last Friday and won 3 games with slaver..
@GrimDucky I am currently running 2 Dismember MB (mainly against E-Tron) and 2 Contortion SB.
I've been playing RG Tron for 5-6 years now and i felt like i have to switch decks even tho i love the locomotive known as RG Tron!
So naturally i went mono U tron instead!
This is the list i have so far, don't have much of a sideboard yet but i have stuff like:
Spreading Seas
Pithing Needle
Grafdiggers Cage
Dismember
etc.
I personnaly don't like angel much anymore. I play myr battlesphere instead now in its place. Same cost, faster beats. I would be willing to change it since Im not convinced yet. I don't play the deck enough right now to talk about it more than as an idea to try.
your list looks solid at first sight. Oboro, Palace in the Clouds is kinda "pricy" and is just adding the last percentage of flexibility, so it´s fine for the start I think.
For my personal feeling your counter count is a bit too high and you can probably cut the Spell Snare for another Dismember or Chalice of the void, just move it to SB.
Besides that, all the cards you have mentioned are suitable for a SB if it is right for your meta. My all time fav. for the SB is the good old Squelch.
Yes, i will try and get an Explosives if/when i can.
I figured Chalice is nice for the Trinket Mage package but yeah.
How many counters d you usually run? And i like having for example a spell snare after playing the Talisman. I was first thinking.of playing a Spell Pierce instead/or in addition to Spell Snare.
If i cut Spell Snare and Chalice it'll open up my mainboard a bit.
Maybe a Epiphany at the Drownyard and another Dismember?
Yes, i will try and get an Explosives if/when i can.
I figured Chalice is nice for the Trinket Mage package but yeah.
How many counters d you usually run? And i like having for example a spell snare after playing the Talisman. I was first thinking.of playing a Spell Pierce instead/or in addition to Spell Snare.
If i cut Spell Snare and Chalice it'll open up my mainboard a bit.
Maybe a Epiphany at the Drownyard and another Dismember?
I`m sorry. I did a mistake with the "," - I wanted to say that you could add another(!) chalice instead of Snare. Chalice is currently one of the best cards against certain matchups.
We usually run 7-9 counters Mainboard. Currently, I would add a Dismember as I said.
I´ve just started trying Epiphany online and starting to like it - but I´ve tested too less with it to make recommendations.
I recently switched out my Epiphany for a Supreme Will. I think those two definitely fight for the same spot and that overall Supreme Will is going to give me more flexibility. Having a hard counter is always great, and besides matches where you simply blow the opponent out with a massive Epiphany, you're casting it looking for something specific that your opponent can stop you from having.
Also, Supreme has more synergy with snap / gearhulk
Is Spell Burst worth running? Every list i see posted does not play Spell Burst.
Was thinking of switching it for a Spell Snaresince it works well with Talisman of Dominance
Game 1 - Tron turn 4, without searches. Opponent was tapped out, having played some cantrip spells. I played a Sundering Titan and, realizing he'd lose 3/4 of his land, opponent scooped.
Game 2 - Opponent was able to counter and bounce most of my threats, as I was incapable of getting the draw engine going. He was then able to chip away with a few small creatures. I eventually landed a Platinum Angel and had it protected for a few turns. My downfall was playing Ugin, instead of Sundering Titan, while I was sitting at -2 life. Had I played Titan, opp would not have had sufficient mana to cast a cryptic to bounce the Angel and swap counters with me to make it stick.
Game 3 - Later game Tron, but a lot of counters and bounce to keep the board clear, until I landed a Sundering Titan again and he scooped.
2) Knightfall - first time I've played against this deck
Game 1 - Tron turn 4. From there, I was able to counter and bounce everything without concern, fetch Academy Ruins, and built the Mindslaver lock. Finished the game with 18 life and he only had mana dorks on the board.
Game 2 - He sided in Voice of Resurgence or got lucky and hit them this game, but he was able to get 3 on the board, and I didn't draw into any/enough bounce, counter, or sweepers. GG
Game 3 - I held him at nothing on board for a long time, until he landed his combo, while I ran out of cards. GG
My error here was side board. I side boarded in more proactive aggressive tech, trying to out aggro him. Bad idea...
3) Knightfall
Game 1 - I wasn't able to assemble Tron and didn't draw into any acceleration. Ultimately, he was able to get threats on the board and swing.
Game 2 - I sided out differently than my prior match against the other Knightfall player. Controlled the match completely, staying at 20 the whole time. Assembled Tron and he eventually scooped, unable to do anything against the Wurmcoil I landed.
Game 3 - Again, Turn 4 tron, landed a Sundering Titan to wipe all of his lands in play. GG
4) Affinity
Game 1 - No sweepers drawn and by the time I was able to start turning the table, he Galvanic Blasted for lethal.
Game 2 - Side in all the creature removal tech. I keep the board relatively clear using bounce and destroy. I assemble Tron relatively quickly and get a Wurmcoil on the board and that's that.
Game 3 - He's able to get me down to 10, after a bunch of rounds of bounce, removal and counter. I land an Ugin and start pinging the rest of his stuff and that's game.
Overall, the deck felt quite good and my piloting significantly improved.
- I think cutting Epiphany is the right choice. It was great getting it off a couple of times during my longer matches against Jeskai control, but otherwise, it was too slow. I'd like 3rd Remand more I think.
- I would like another EE or OStone in the 75, as sweepers were definitely an issue during those 3 matches and would have helped make my position more comfortable.
- Sundering Titan did huge work. My local meta has a ton of 3+ color decks and, I think, the meta as a whole has a lot of tri color decks. This guy does huge work against those opponents.
- Gearhulk was great mid to late game tech for either additional counters or for generating card advantage. I definitely like having him in the deck.
I like it a lot, but I could see the argument that by the time its really useful you're already in good shape and don't need it. But in some games its just a lock because of the buyback
Wow, your 60 is, like 99% the same as mine, but I got back to my couple talismans. They've been really good with EE, blows up blood moons & other 3 drops, really good vs that Mono-Red Prison that's been running around.
And 2 of Dismember, Remand, Supreme Will, and Repeal is feeling great also. What's your opinion on this split?
Sounds good, even tho I thought we are not really on the same boat since you "hated" a lot against Gemstone Caverns. :-P
How does your Land/Talisman split looks like then?
I currently really enjoying the split, sometimes I personally think that it may be a bit to slow.. but that is very situational. I think it is at least debateable to do a 3 remand / 1 will split.
Is Spell Burst worth running? Every list i see posted does not play Spell Burst.
Was thinking of switching it for a Spell Snaresince it works well with Talisman of Dominance
Nice, thanks for the answers everyone!
Btw, i tried out the deck against a eternal command deck and even tho i always went second i won all of the matches.
I really like the deck, Condescend is boss. Supreme Will was also really nice.
Walking Ballista could ping Witness and snappy.
Fun deck!
Do You played against this deck?
Maybe You've got some nice card ideas? (I really don't like pithing needle in the sideboard beacuse of all hate cards in game 2/3).
Ugin or bust. The match up is definitely a tough one and I think you really gotta use your life total as a punching bag until you can stabilize the board.
I'd also like to hear more input but personally I bring in removal, GY hate, crucible, and an extra coil / ballista.
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Legacy: GRUB Lands
Modern: U Tron RG Tron RG Ponza
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That was one of my other thoughts - cutting Mindslaver to 1 MB and a 2nd SB. The creature package definitely seems quicker/more powerful than Slaver, on a sustained basis. However, being able to Slaver the opponent, even if only once or twice, as opposed to the infinite loop, can still have an extremely positive impact on our game.
If you had to choose between having spatial or dismember in the board what would it be? Which of the 2 could we not live without? I wanna say dismember but I always feel a little salty whenever I cast it.
I can share your experience here regarding the online meta, I am currently playing a 1-main 1-sb splitof Mindslaver and I am currently testing a lot of things online for the next bigger tournament (>500ppl) in January like a second Ugin, Gearhulk and even Karn.
My FNM meta is perfect for slaver, a lot of mid-lategame Decks. I finished 3-1 last Friday and won 3 games with slaver..
@GrimDucky I am currently running 2 Dismember MB (mainly against E-Tron) and 2 Contortion SB.
Greets
Max
UTron
I've been playing RG Tron for 5-6 years now and i felt like i have to switch decks even tho i love the locomotive known as RG Tron!
So naturally i went mono U tron instead!
This is the list i have so far, don't have much of a sideboard yet but i have stuff like:
Spreading Seas
Pithing Needle
Grafdiggers Cage
Dismember
etc.
1 Tolaria west
1 Field of Ruin
4 urza's tower
4 urza's mine
4 urza's power plant
7 island
1 academy ruins
4 condescend
4 expedition map
4 thirst for knowledge
1 spell burst
3 repeal
3 remand
1 spell snare
1 dismember
1 supreme will
1 Trinket Mage
1 Treasure Mage
1 Walking Ballista
2 Wurmcoil engine
1 Solemn simulacrum
1 sundering titan
1 platinum angel
1 Ugin, the spirit dragon
1 oblivion stone
1 mindslaver
1 cyclonic rift
I would love to get feedback!
EDIT: Sadly i don't have a Oboro, Palace in the Clouds or Engineered Explosives, i've seen them on many lists
Who needs Colours?
My most played EDH deck:
X Kozilek, the Great Distortion
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer
your list looks solid at first sight. Oboro, Palace in the Clouds is kinda "pricy" and is just adding the last percentage of flexibility, so it´s fine for the start I think.
What I would go next is def. Engineered Explosives, you can replace it with Ratchet Bomb on a budget.
For my personal feeling your counter count is a bit too high and you can probably cut the Spell Snare for another Dismember or Chalice of the void, just move it to SB.
Besides that, all the cards you have mentioned are suitable for a SB if it is right for your meta. My all time fav. for the SB is the good old Squelch.
BR
Max
UTron
Yes, i will try and get an Explosives if/when i can.
I figured Chalice is nice for the Trinket Mage package but yeah.
How many counters d you usually run? And i like having for example a spell snare after playing the Talisman. I was first thinking.of playing a Spell Pierce instead/or in addition to Spell Snare.
If i cut Spell Snare and Chalice it'll open up my mainboard a bit.
Maybe a Epiphany at the Drownyard and another Dismember?
Who needs Colours?
My most played EDH deck:
X Kozilek, the Great Distortion
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer
I`m sorry. I did a mistake with the "," - I wanted to say that you could add another(!) chalice instead of Snare. Chalice is currently one of the best cards against certain matchups.
We usually run 7-9 counters Mainboard. Currently, I would add a Dismember as I said.
I´ve just started trying Epiphany online and starting to like it - but I´ve tested too less with it to make recommendations.
Greets
Max
UTron
Also, Supreme has more synergy with snap / gearhulk
Retired
Legacy:
GRUB Lands
Modern:
U Tron
RG Tron
RG Ponza
One will be on Sunday with around 80-100 Modern players and I will go with the following list:
4 Condescend
1 Cyclonic Rift
2 Remand
2 Repeal
4 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Dismember
2 Supreme Will
Walker:
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Creatures:
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Treasure Mage
1 Trinket Mage
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Platinum Angel
1 Sundering Titan
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Walking Ballista
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Expedition Map
1 Mindslaver
1 Oblivion Stone
Lands:
1 Academy Ruins
1 Field of Ruin
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Tolaria West
1 River of Tears
7 Island
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Mindslaver
1 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Squelch
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Dismember
1 Spatial Contortion
2 Summary Dismissal
1 Jester's Cap
1 Gemstone Caverns
Any comments are highly appreciated.
BR
Max
UTron
2 Supreme Will also looks a little slow in theory, but I haven't test it enough to say that definitively.
Retired
Legacy:
GRUB Lands
Modern:
U Tron
RG Tron
RG Ponza
Was thinking of switching it for a Spell Snaresince it works well with Talisman of Dominance
EDIT: Cool, its a hardcounter agains Ancestral Vision
Who needs Colours?
My most played EDH deck:
X Kozilek, the Great Distortion
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer
Went 3-1 last night with the following list:
4 Condescend
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Ephiphany at the Drownyard
2 Remand
2 Repeal
1 Spell Burst
2 Supreme Will
4 Thirst for Knowledge
Walker:
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Creatures:
1 Platinum Angel
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Sundering Titan
1 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Treasure Mage
1 Trinket Mage
1 Walking Ballista
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Expedition Map
1 Mindslaver
1 Oblivion Stone
Lands:
1 Academy Ruins
1 Gemstone Cavern
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 River of Tears
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Tolaria West
6 Island
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
2 Dismember
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Negate
2 Spatial Contortion
1 Spell Snare
1 Squelch
2 Summary Dismissal
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Mindslaver
1 Gemstone Cavern
1 Tectonic Edge
Matches -
1) Jeskai Control - felt favorable
Game 1 - Tron turn 4, without searches. Opponent was tapped out, having played some cantrip spells. I played a Sundering Titan and, realizing he'd lose 3/4 of his land, opponent scooped.
Game 2 - Opponent was able to counter and bounce most of my threats, as I was incapable of getting the draw engine going. He was then able to chip away with a few small creatures. I eventually landed a Platinum Angel and had it protected for a few turns. My downfall was playing Ugin, instead of Sundering Titan, while I was sitting at -2 life. Had I played Titan, opp would not have had sufficient mana to cast a cryptic to bounce the Angel and swap counters with me to make it stick.
Game 3 - Later game Tron, but a lot of counters and bounce to keep the board clear, until I landed a Sundering Titan again and he scooped.
2) Knightfall - first time I've played against this deck
Game 1 - Tron turn 4. From there, I was able to counter and bounce everything without concern, fetch Academy Ruins, and built the Mindslaver lock. Finished the game with 18 life and he only had mana dorks on the board.
Game 2 - He sided in Voice of Resurgence or got lucky and hit them this game, but he was able to get 3 on the board, and I didn't draw into any/enough bounce, counter, or sweepers. GG
Game 3 - I held him at nothing on board for a long time, until he landed his combo, while I ran out of cards. GG
My error here was side board. I side boarded in more proactive aggressive tech, trying to out aggro him. Bad idea...
3) Knightfall
Game 1 - I wasn't able to assemble Tron and didn't draw into any acceleration. Ultimately, he was able to get threats on the board and swing.
Game 2 - I sided out differently than my prior match against the other Knightfall player. Controlled the match completely, staying at 20 the whole time. Assembled Tron and he eventually scooped, unable to do anything against the Wurmcoil I landed.
Game 3 - Again, Turn 4 tron, landed a Sundering Titan to wipe all of his lands in play. GG
4) Affinity
Game 1 - No sweepers drawn and by the time I was able to start turning the table, he Galvanic Blasted for lethal.
Game 2 - Side in all the creature removal tech. I keep the board relatively clear using bounce and destroy. I assemble Tron relatively quickly and get a Wurmcoil on the board and that's that.
Game 3 - He's able to get me down to 10, after a bunch of rounds of bounce, removal and counter. I land an Ugin and start pinging the rest of his stuff and that's game.
Overall, the deck felt quite good and my piloting significantly improved.
- I think cutting Epiphany is the right choice. It was great getting it off a couple of times during my longer matches against Jeskai control, but otherwise, it was too slow. I'd like 3rd Remand more I think.
- I would like another EE or OStone in the 75, as sweepers were definitely an issue during those 3 matches and would have helped make my position more comfortable.
- Sundering Titan did huge work. My local meta has a ton of 3+ color decks and, I think, the meta as a whole has a lot of tri color decks. This guy does huge work against those opponents.
- Gearhulk was great mid to late game tech for either additional counters or for generating card advantage. I definitely like having him in the deck.
Sounds good, even tho I thought we are not really on the same boat since you "hated" a lot against Gemstone Caverns. :-P
How does your Land/Talisman split looks like then?
I currently really enjoying the split, sometimes I personally think that it may be a bit to slow.. but that is very situational. I think it is at least debateable to do a 3 remand / 1 will split.
Spell burst is a really good spell - I normally play it in my 75 all the time, but currently I just don´t feel that I have enough space for it sadly.
BTW.: I just did a 4-1 finish @competitive league with the deck I´ve mentioned above. Matchups were:
vs UR Storm 2-0
vs Nahiri bring to light 0-2
vs Burn 2-0
vs Skek Red 2-0
vs Grixis Ctrl 2-0
Made a good 45€ + on that one
UTron
Btw, i tried out the deck against a eternal command deck and even tho i always went second i won all of the matches.
I really like the deck, Condescend is boss. Supreme Will was also really nice.
Walking Ballista could ping Witness and snappy.
Fun deck!
Who needs Colours?
My most played EDH deck:
X Kozilek, the Great Distortion
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer
I've got hard beating yesterday from ghost quarter / ramunap / knight of reliquary... I side in all removal against them but I didn't make it.
Do You played against this deck?
Maybe You've got some nice card ideas? (I really don't like pithing needle in the sideboard beacuse of all hate cards in game 2/3).
Thx in advance for Your thoughts
I'd also like to hear more input but personally I bring in removal, GY hate, crucible, and an extra coil / ballista.
Retired
Legacy:
GRUB Lands
Modern:
U Tron
RG Tron
RG Ponza