This has worked very well for me so far, I've been considering trying out a Field of Ruin but don't know if it'll be much better then tec-edge.
Anyways back to buried ruin, the card has been fantastic for me as there are so many situations when I just want to get an artifact back to your hand (for me at least).
I think you guys should really give the card a shot, as I've found it to be fantastic.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern:UBRDeath's ShadowUBR, CEldrazi StompyC,WUBRGSliversWUBRG, UBRGTraverse ShadowUBRG,RUGtempo pileRUG Pauper:UdelverU they slaughtered my deck i miss gush and daze..
I've been reading this forum for a couples of-in-and out modern-magic-playing years. This deck is "ma' boat"!
I was wondering what you guys think of Thought-knot seer, MB or SB; is it really worth playing this kind of tempo card with the deck's plan. I recently replaced my 2 Solemn simulacrum with 2 Thought-knot seers. Three MagicNights later: it wasn't a real success; of course I have to get used to exile the right cards with the said Thought-knot seer, but solemn is a real value package with which I have difficulty departing.
Another thing: I noticed that litteraly NO DECK (and by that I mean nothing I have encountered) could deal with any planeswalker that has more than 7 counters, by that I mean that once Ugin, the spirit dragon hits the board it's basically over, wether it is againt aggro or control doesn't matter. Of course u-tron can loose while it's on the board; what I mean is that it's basically "unremovable" since there is no card like Hero's downfall in the current meta (and 3x bolting isn't that much off a plan for any opponent). This led me, while I was recently tinkering, to think about something as extravagant as Jace, architect of thought which again led me to rethink my position about putting back in talisman of dominance, which was out due to lack of usefulness and strong dull-draw. Which made me think of another thing: is it worth playing any talisman for cards like Thought-knot seer? -full circle-
One last thought: saw Nimble Obstructionist in a list linked by @Alur13 (Thanks alot btw for you contribution to this forum vitality), I love this kind of card for it is either tempo beat-down or st rong counterplay against specific decks. Any thoughts? Against Ulamog, the ceaseless hunger, etc?
It's been discussed a few times. With etron and death shadow around TKS is just an expensive exile that gets outclassed by most other tempo oriented creatures. I think it's amazing in the SB but solemn feels better MB because islands are often hard to come by and wurmcoil is the natural follow-up. Solemn works with academy ruins and thirst for knowledge and fills that role of artifacts who are occasionally amazing or can be pitched for card advantage. The meta is shifting slightly so there might be a case, but when gurmags, deaths shadows, tarmogoyf, smasher, and even vengevine/hollow one are heavily played its a tapout risk not worth taking.
guys, i need an advice. haven't any ugin in my list, and only 1 stone + 1 ee main as mass-removal.
does 2-3 of oblivion stones makes sense in maindeck? i usually see 1 maindeck in various lists, but i don't want to play fabricate as it's quite slow, and none of the treasure/trinket mages can hit it. and hoping to naturally draw one-of in the deck doesn't looks like a good plan even with all the cantrips and thirsts.
@Jhernor - play at least 1 Solemn. He function nice in any situation for our gameplan.
Ramp/fixing, chump, carddraw, "lili preasure" and lovley ditch to thirst.
Jace AoT doesnt sound exiting for me. If i tap out to slam something on the board mainphase i want it to have high impact on the game or at least can chump like Solem and Mages.
@ovle - ugin is such a uniq card its rarly to replace without alot dropping other parts. Ugin donst only clear the board but is a bolting machine afterwards and a wincon for sure. O-Ring or all is dust just clean the board once and ur opponent can reassemble after. But since u ant got ugin jet i recommend a fabricate cause it searches more stuff by its flexibility. Wurmcoil sometimes is just enough to stall/win the board.
Ugin can die pretty easily to man lands, bolt + snap + bolt, detention sphere, anguished unmaking, maelstrom pulse, etc. The important thing about Ugin is when he hits the board you will always be able to remove their boardstate and they still need to answer Ugin... So he is usually a X-for-1 even when answered.
yeah. tec edge and field of ruin keep lands even. gq puts us down one, and unless infect is big again, i cant imagine using one.
tec edge is good in control mirror, and valakut decks mainly. tron sometimes but draw dependant. field of ruin is good vs man lands, cavern of souls, and random "Special lands" like nykthos shrine to nyx, academy ruins, etc. (writing this makes me think field is better MB and tec SB) ghost quarter is only better turns 1-2, which only matters vs infect. i would not count ponza, cause you going down a land is basically like being stone rained anyways.
the person who asked about thought knot seer it is a good card to sb into tempo play however not optimal, because the cmc 4 vs 3, and not having flash makes it just good and not great in that position. Gx tron uses it sb sometimes cause they have less imteraction in general. we have blue. i'd pass, but its not wrong to do, i would just recommend SB not MB cause it will just die.
search for azcanta has been nice. but i think im going to the side of "helps in our good matches" ... its kinda slow, although great. gemstone caverns although not consistent, helps in our bad matches. so i cant imagine playing without em.
So I've haven't posted much in a while, even though I've been playing the deck quite a lot lately. I mostly play in the competitive leagues on MTGO, but also in local paper tournaments. Since my decklist has over time deviated significantly from what's currently the 'stock' list I figured I'd give you guys my thoughts on the changes.
Advantages 1) 16 Artifacts. With so many artifacts in the list the power of Thirst for Knowledge goes up a lot. The increase in card selection you get from going from zero to one artifact, and from one to two or more is immense. The stock lists seems to have corrected itself somewhat, but for a long while it was common to run as few as 12-13 artifacts. The artifact count was so low in some of the lists that I kinda believe it warped the conversation regarding specific cards, since it being/replacing an artifact in the list being tested had a far bigger effect on the card's playability than we gave it credit for.
2) More Board-whipes. By replacing Cyclonic Rift with another copy of Oblivion Stone we both increase our artifact count and move from a tempo card, to a card that goes X for 1 without changing the required mana too much. The Cyclonic Rift does have the utility of working as a one-time bounce spell for two mana, but I find the value of that deceptive. Sure, we solve the immediate problem the permanent in question, but we're actually down cards relative to our opponent. Since our game-plan leads to either casting a big threat, or create a low-pressure boardstate, that one card is often the difference between running them out of threats and not. The need to Cyclonic Rift random non-creature permanents is alleviated by point 3.
3)Improved t3-t4 sequencing. Done by committing to moving over to Commit//Memory from Repeal.Repeal is a fine card, and our deck really needs the effect. Some permanents just needs to stay off the table. Repeal is quite an expensive spell though. Before we complete tron we're always going to be tapping more lands than our opponent. Once we've completed tron we can cast it off of fewer lands, but we're working on less information than we'd like. We only know which card we're drawing after we've resolved it. This again leads to being locked into one of two situations. If we cast it main phase, our opponent will just recast it immediately on their turn. If we cast it in our opponent's turn, leftover mana or drawn lands can't be used well. This is especially annoying against cards like Blood Moon, Rest in Peace or Relic of Progenitus. Regardless of the cast timing Repeal leads to our opponent having an increased percentage of available spells in hand than you. This is because we will sometimes draw lands, but they will always get a spell in hand. These situations are less than ideal. what we really want to do is to spend less mana than our opponent, and deal with their card. This is the realm of counterspells, and we have a lot of them. However counterspells all have very strict timing requirements. We need to have the mana ready when they cast the spell. This problem is the whole point of Repeal in the first place. To deal with cards we couldn't stop on the stack. So what we want is a card that costs about the same, and deals with the same permanents Repeal does, but doesn't have the problems related to lacking the information to find the right play. Commit//Memory Fills a lot of these requirements. It bounces the same cards at similar costs, but you get to draw a card at the start of your turn before you have to deal with the bounced card again. You then get the ability to sequence around the problem card when you have the option to cast sorcery speed spells. I've heard people comment that Commit is bad because it improves your opponent's draws, but so does Repeal, but the effect of Commit is only felt one or two turns later.
Seeing as the bounce part of Commit is roughly equal to Repeal we can start looking into the prime advantage of commit. There are very few cards it can't interact with. It's a counterspell in addition to being a bounce spell. Planeswalkers, creatures with ETB triggers, delve mana-cheating, eldrazi-lands, uncounterable spells, none of them get past a Commit. This makes it way safer to spend turn three setting up for other things. Like casting Thirst for Knowledge. It doesn't matter that they resolved a mediocre threat on your turn three if they can never get a second threat on the table before we get to our big stuff.
4) Powerful mid to late-game with Torrential Gearhulk. With the move away from Repeal the issue of not having a bounce/removal spell to target with Torrential Gearhulk goes away, and it becomes a powerful way to set up 2 for 1 situations on most board states. It's tempting to hype the ability to use Torrential Gearhulk to only cast the Memory portion of Commit//Memory, but you'll find yourself wanting Commit more often. However when the situation does come up it's often an instant-win.
5) Land destruction soft-lock with Crucible of Worlds and Field of Ruin + gives space for utility-land. I've found that I can get away with using Field of Ruin as my only land destroying land. Combined with Crucible of Worlds it creates the value engine we've come to love lately, and when topped off with a Sundering Titan there aren't any lands that can't be destroyed using only mainboard cards. Using only a single land destruction land opens up space for an utility land. I'm currently on Buried Ruin, but I've tested with Mirrorpool, Gemstone Caverns or a fetchland as. I'm unsure which utility land offers the most.
---
I have a lot more to say about the deck, but I got to go now. Expect to see one or more followup posts the next days! =)
Please stop talking about Choke as if it's a real concern, Choke hasn't been a thing since Splinter Twin was banned and the same applies to Boil. Having basics for Blood Moon, Ghost Quarter, Field of Ruin, Path, Solemn, ... is a much bigger concern than Choke/Boil. You will have to fetch basics or rely on basics every other game. I haven't seen Choke or Boil in the last 1k matches played.
Have anyone tested Delay? In paper it seems good against aggro (an early threat is not so much of a threat 3 turns later), good against combo, good vs counterspells and good vs spells with X in their mana cost. Obviously it doesn't cantrip as Remand does, but there are situations where Remand is kind of useless, relying only in blind-drawing another solution.
Haven't really tested it, just asking for thoughts in case any of you have tryed it.
So I've haven't posted much in a while, even though I've been playing the deck quite a lot lately. I mostly play in the competitive leagues on MTGO, but also in local paper tournaments. Since my decklist has over time deviated significantly from what's currently the 'stock' list I figured I'd give you guys my thoughts on the changes.
Advantages 1) 16 Artifacts. With so many artifacts in the list the power of Thirst for Knowledge goes up a lot. The increase in card selection you get from going from zero to one artifact, and from one to two or more is immense. The stock lists seems to have corrected itself somewhat, but for a long while it was common to run as few as 12-13 artifacts. The artifact count was so low in some of the lists that I kinda believe it warped the conversation regarding specific cards, since it being/replacing an artifact in the list being tested had a far bigger effect on the card's playability than we gave it credit for.
2) More Board-whipes. By replacing Cyclonic Rift with another copy of Oblivion Stone we both increase our artifact count and move from a tempo card, to a card that goes X for 1 without changing the required mana too much. The Cyclonic Rift does have the utility of working as a one-time bounce spell for two mana, but I find the value of that deceptive. Sure, we solve the immediate problem the permanent in question, but we're actually down cards relative to our opponent. Since our game-plan leads to either casting a big threat, or create a low-pressure boardstate, that one card is often the difference between running them out of threats and not. The need to Cyclonic Rift random non-creature permanents is alleviated by point 3.
3)Improved t3-t4 sequencing. Done by committing to moving over to Commit//Memory from Repeal.Repeal is a fine card, and our deck really needs the effect. Some permanents just needs to stay off the table. Repeal is quite an expensive spell though. Before we complete tron we're always going to be tapping more lands than our opponent. Once we've completed tron we can cast it off of fewer lands, but we're working on less information than we'd like. We only know which card we're drawing after we've resolved it. This again leads to being locked into one of two situations. If we cast it main phase, our opponent will just recast it immediately on their turn. If we cast it in our opponent's turn, leftover mana or drawn lands can't be used well. This is especially annoying against cards like Blood Moon, Rest in Peace or Relic of Progenitus. Regardless of the cast timing Repeal leads to our opponent having an increased percentage of available spells in hand than you. This is because we will sometimes draw lands, but they will always get a spell in hand. These situations are less than ideal. what we really want to do is to spend less mana than our opponent, and deal with their card. This is the realm of counterspells, and we have a lot of them. However counterspells all have very strict timing requirements. We need to have the mana ready when they cast the spell. This problem is the whole point of Repeal in the first place. To deal with cards we couldn't stop on the stack. So what we want is a card that costs about the same, and deals with the same permanents Repeal does, but doesn't have the problems related to lacking the information to find the right play. Commit//Memory Fills a lot of these requirements. It bounces the same cards at similar costs, but you get to draw a card at the start of your turn before you have to deal with the bounced card again. You then get the ability to sequence around the problem card when you have the option to cast sorcery speed spells. I've heard people comment that Commit is bad because it improves your opponent's draws, but so does Repeal, but the effect of Commit is only felt one or two turns later.
Seeing as the bounce part of Commit is roughly equal to Repeal we can start looking into the prime advantage of commit. There are very few cards it can't interact with. It's a counterspell in addition to being a bounce spell. Planeswalkers, creatures with ETB triggers, delve mana-cheating, eldrazi-lands, uncounterable spells, none of them get past a Commit. This makes it way safer to spend turn three setting up for other things. Like casting Thirst for Knowledge. It doesn't matter that they resolved a mediocre threat on your turn three if they can never get a second threat on the table before we get to our big stuff.
4) Powerful mid to late-game with Torrential Gearhulk. With the move away from Repeal the issue of not having a bounce/removal spell to target with Torrential Gearhulk goes away, and it becomes a powerful way to set up 2 for 1 situations on most board states. It's tempting to hype the ability to use Torrential Gearhulk to only cast the Memory portion of Commit//Memory, but you'll find yourself wanting Commit more often. However when the situation does come up it's often an instant-win.
5) Land destruction soft-lock with Crucible of Worlds and Field of Ruin + gives space for utility-land. I've found that I can get away with using Field of Ruin as my only land destroying land. Combined with Crucible of Worlds it creates the value engine we've come to love lately, and when topped off with a Sundering Titan there aren't any lands that can't be destroyed using only mainboard cards. Using only a single land destruction land opens up space for an utility land. I'm currently on Buried Ruin, but I've tested with Mirrorpool, Gemstone Caverns or a fetchland as. I'm unsure which utility land offers the most.
---
I have a lot more to say about the deck, but I got to go now. Expect to see one or more followup posts the next days! =)
Great post. I think it's great more people are starting have different play styles with U-Tron.
With dropping repeal do you find your draw power go down or does supreme will and Gifts make up for it?
With dropping repeal do you find your draw power go down or does supreme will and Gifts make up for it?
It's a bit hard to judge if it has gone down, because so much of the draw power comes on flexible cards now. If I need cards I have the option of just recasting a Thirst for Knowledge with a Torrential Gearhulk. Or maybe just changing the mode on Supreme Will However it definitively feels I have enough with this configuration. I believe there is a sweet-spot for dedicated card drawing spells at around 5 cards (thirsts and gifts) due to the risk of having drawing too many. So any other card draw has to come from flexible spells like Supreme Will.
I'm not entirely convinced of Supreme Will yet. much because of the CMC of 3, the deck already runs a lot of CMC 3 spells so it may be hard to find a good spot to cast it. It's possible the slot should have a Snapcaster Mage in that slot instead.
--
My 5-0 in the competitive leagues from yesterday didn't get posted
Has anyone considered going down 1-2 Tron pieces, adding blue and then having 2-3 Tolaria west's in the deck as tutors (fall back as lands?)
Not as good as having 6-7 Maps, but it seems like it would increase our chances of having a blue source for our spells, lets us grab Walking B, Void, or some of our SB.
Yes, reduces the chance of a natural tron but increases the chances of a early remand (if you ave remand in hand) and more confidence with the late game).
It seems good playing, but I feel like I'm missing a downside.
The downside is playing less tron lands which doesn't just reduce the chance of natural tron but hurts your overall consistency. You will assemble tron later, and when you do you will have less mana on average. I am not having any issues producing blue mana with 9 lands that tap for blue, 1 field of ruin, 1 gemstone caverns and 4 maps of course. How many blue sources are you running?
I even think this manabase supports double blue spells very consistently.
Some run more spicy things that u can search for different piles with like crucible and ghostquarter to lock ur opponent out of the game or just simple get value with getting two strong out of four cards.
The downside is playing less tron lands which doesn't just reduce the chance of natural tron but hurts your overall consistency. You will assemble tron later, and when you do you will have less mana on average. I am not having any issues producing blue mana with 9 lands that tap for blue, 1 field of ruin, 1 gemstone caverns and 4 maps of course. How many blue sources are you running?
I even think this manabase supports double blue spells very consistently.
8 blue lands, Talisman of progress, 1 field of ruin and 3 T. West currently.
I'm going down 1 tron land but up 3 tutors that can fill as land without casting if needed so wouldn't I on average get more mana per game? Just assembled 1 turn later some 5% of the time or something. Plus all 3 tutors can get me Void and Ballista.
What is making me think this is not correct is that since T West has to be cast during main phase, I'm hitting tron in more games BUT usually taking a turn off.
Paying 1UU sorcery speed is really difficult. You will often not have 1UU on turn 3, and even more often you don't want to tap that mana sorcery speed.
Yeah that doesn't sound right, 1 Tolaria should be more than enough. Don't forget after all we don't rely on that immediate tron configuration like the green versions do
Also just wanted to throw my list into the stratosphere, I've been super happy with it lately.
Sideboard is full of silver bullets for Trinket Mage which gives so much more incentive to run him imo
2nd Ugin could easily be a Platinum Angel which I cut recently but I haven't missed her at all
Thinking of replacing Epiphany with Supreme Will for a little more interaction. I know Epiphany can be a win-more card, but it's also dug me out of a hole numerous times in drawn out games when you slam it for like 12-15 and just win out of nowhere
I'd love to fit a couple mana rocks into the list for EE but I have no idea what to cut
4 Urza's power plant
4 Urza's tower
4 Urza's mine
1 Tolaria west
1 River of tears
6 Island
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Tectonic edge
1 Academy ruins
1 Buried ruin
This has worked very well for me so far, I've been considering trying out a Field of Ruin but don't know if it'll be much better then tec-edge.
Anyways back to buried ruin, the card has been fantastic for me as there are so many situations when I just want to get an artifact back to your hand (for me at least).
I think you guys should really give the card a shot, as I've found it to be fantastic.
Pauper: UdelverUthey slaughtered my deckTurn 6 Karn > Turn 2 Phage
I've been reading this forum for a couples of-in-and out modern-magic-playing years. This deck is "ma' boat"!
I was wondering what you guys think of Thought-knot seer, MB or SB; is it really worth playing this kind of tempo card with the deck's plan. I recently replaced my 2 Solemn simulacrum with 2 Thought-knot seers. Three MagicNights later: it wasn't a real success; of course I have to get used to exile the right cards with the said Thought-knot seer, but solemn is a real value package with which I have difficulty departing.
Another thing: I noticed that litteraly NO DECK (and by that I mean nothing I have encountered) could deal with any planeswalker that has more than 7 counters, by that I mean that once Ugin, the spirit dragon hits the board it's basically over, wether it is againt aggro or control doesn't matter. Of course u-tron can loose while it's on the board; what I mean is that it's basically "unremovable" since there is no card like Hero's downfall in the current meta (and 3x bolting isn't that much off a plan for any opponent). This led me, while I was recently tinkering, to think about something as extravagant as Jace, architect of thought which again led me to rethink my position about putting back in talisman of dominance, which was out due to lack of usefulness and strong dull-draw. Which made me think of another thing: is it worth playing any talisman for cards like Thought-knot seer? -full circle-
One last thought: saw Nimble Obstructionist in a list linked by @Alur13 (Thanks alot btw for you contribution to this forum vitality), I love this kind of card for it is either tempo beat-down or st rong counterplay against specific decks. Any thoughts? Against Ulamog, the ceaseless hunger, etc?
Here, a link to my "steady list" since I try alot fo stuff:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/832843#paper
Edit: thanks to all of you guys
does 2-3 of oblivion stones makes sense in maindeck? i usually see 1 maindeck in various lists, but i don't want to play fabricate as it's quite slow, and none of the treasure/trinket mages can hit it. and hoping to naturally draw one-of in the deck doesn't looks like a good plan even with all the cantrips and thirsts.
Ramp/fixing, chump, carddraw, "lili preasure" and lovley ditch to thirst.
Jace AoT doesnt sound exiting for me. If i tap out to slam something on the board mainphase i want it to have high impact on the game or at least can chump like Solem and Mages.
@ovle - ugin is such a uniq card its rarly to replace without alot dropping other parts. Ugin donst only clear the board but is a bolting machine afterwards and a wincon for sure. O-Ring or all is dust just clean the board once and ur opponent can reassemble after. But since u ant got ugin jet i recommend a fabricate cause it searches more stuff by its flexibility. Wurmcoil sometimes is just enough to stall/win the board.
www.magickeller.de
Facebook:
www.facebook.com/magickeller
Youtube:
Magickeller Hannover YOUTUBE Channel
Youtube Channel
My stream:
www.twitch.tv/pierakor
My Disco:
https://discord.gg/gTt6xHd
tec edge is good in control mirror, and valakut decks mainly. tron sometimes but draw dependant.
field of ruin is good vs man lands, cavern of souls, and random "Special lands" like nykthos shrine to nyx, academy ruins, etc. (writing this makes me think field is better MB and tec SB)
ghost quarter is only better turns 1-2, which only matters vs infect. i would not count ponza, cause you going down a land is basically like being stone rained anyways.
the person who asked about thought knot seer it is a good card to sb into tempo play however not optimal, because the cmc 4 vs 3, and not having flash makes it just good and not great in that position. Gx tron uses it sb sometimes cause they have less imteraction in general. we have blue. i'd pass, but its not wrong to do, i would just recommend SB not MB cause it will just die.
search for azcanta has been nice. but i think im going to the side of "helps in our good matches" ... its kinda slow, although great.
gemstone caverns although not consistent, helps in our bad matches. so i cant imagine playing without em.
4 Condescend
3 Commit//Memory
3 Remand
1 Supreme Will
1 Spell Burst
Selection
4 Expedition Map
4 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Treasure Mage
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Search for Azcanta
Silver-Bullets
2 Oblivion Stone
1 Walking Ballista
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Mindslaver
1 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Platinum Angel
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Sundering Titan
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Crucible of Worlds
Lands
7 Island
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Tower
4 Urza's Power Plant
1 Academy Ruins
1 Field of Ruin
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Buried Ruin
2 Dismember
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Spatial Contortion
2 Spreading Seas
1 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Nimble Obstructionist
2 Squelch
Advantages
1) 16 Artifacts. With so many artifacts in the list the power of Thirst for Knowledge goes up a lot. The increase in card selection you get from going from zero to one artifact, and from one to two or more is immense. The stock lists seems to have corrected itself somewhat, but for a long while it was common to run as few as 12-13 artifacts. The artifact count was so low in some of the lists that I kinda believe it warped the conversation regarding specific cards, since it being/replacing an artifact in the list being tested had a far bigger effect on the card's playability than we gave it credit for.
2) More Board-whipes. By replacing Cyclonic Rift with another copy of Oblivion Stone we both increase our artifact count and move from a tempo card, to a card that goes X for 1 without changing the required mana too much. The Cyclonic Rift does have the utility of working as a one-time bounce spell for two mana, but I find the value of that deceptive. Sure, we solve the immediate problem the permanent in question, but we're actually down cards relative to our opponent. Since our game-plan leads to either casting a big threat, or create a low-pressure boardstate, that one card is often the difference between running them out of threats and not. The need to Cyclonic Rift random non-creature permanents is alleviated by point 3.
3)Improved t3-t4 sequencing. Done by committing to moving over to Commit//Memory from Repeal.Repeal is a fine card, and our deck really needs the effect. Some permanents just needs to stay off the table. Repeal is quite an expensive spell though. Before we complete tron we're always going to be tapping more lands than our opponent. Once we've completed tron we can cast it off of fewer lands, but we're working on less information than we'd like. We only know which card we're drawing after we've resolved it. This again leads to being locked into one of two situations. If we cast it main phase, our opponent will just recast it immediately on their turn. If we cast it in our opponent's turn, leftover mana or drawn lands can't be used well. This is especially annoying against cards like Blood Moon, Rest in Peace or Relic of Progenitus. Regardless of the cast timing Repeal leads to our opponent having an increased percentage of available spells in hand than you. This is because we will sometimes draw lands, but they will always get a spell in hand. These situations are less than ideal. what we really want to do is to spend less mana than our opponent, and deal with their card. This is the realm of counterspells, and we have a lot of them. However counterspells all have very strict timing requirements. We need to have the mana ready when they cast the spell. This problem is the whole point of Repeal in the first place. To deal with cards we couldn't stop on the stack. So what we want is a card that costs about the same, and deals with the same permanents Repeal does, but doesn't have the problems related to lacking the information to find the right play.
Commit//Memory Fills a lot of these requirements. It bounces the same cards at similar costs, but you get to draw a card at the start of your turn before you have to deal with the bounced card again. You then get the ability to sequence around the problem card when you have the option to cast sorcery speed spells. I've heard people comment that Commit is bad because it improves your opponent's draws, but so does Repeal, but the effect of Commit is only felt one or two turns later.
Seeing as the bounce part of Commit is roughly equal to Repeal we can start looking into the prime advantage of commit. There are very few cards it can't interact with. It's a counterspell in addition to being a bounce spell. Planeswalkers, creatures with ETB triggers, delve mana-cheating, eldrazi-lands, uncounterable spells, none of them get past a Commit. This makes it way safer to spend turn three setting up for other things. Like casting Thirst for Knowledge. It doesn't matter that they resolved a mediocre threat on your turn three if they can never get a second threat on the table before we get to our big stuff.
4) Powerful mid to late-game with Torrential Gearhulk. With the move away from Repeal the issue of not having a bounce/removal spell to target with Torrential Gearhulk goes away, and it becomes a powerful way to set up 2 for 1 situations on most board states. It's tempting to hype the ability to use Torrential Gearhulk to only cast the Memory portion of Commit//Memory, but you'll find yourself wanting Commit more often. However when the situation does come up it's often an instant-win.
5) Land destruction soft-lock with Crucible of Worlds and Field of Ruin + gives space for utility-land. I've found that I can get away with using Field of Ruin as my only land destroying land. Combined with Crucible of Worlds it creates the value engine we've come to love lately, and when topped off with a Sundering Titan there aren't any lands that can't be destroyed using only mainboard cards. Using only a single land destruction land opens up space for an utility land. I'm currently on Buried Ruin, but I've tested with Mirrorpool, Gemstone Caverns or a fetchland as. I'm unsure which utility land offers the most.
---
I have a lot more to say about the deck, but I got to go now. Expect to see one or more followup posts the next days! =)
Youtube Channel
My stream:
www.twitch.tv/pierakor
My Disco:
https://discord.gg/gTt6xHd
Haven't really tested it, just asking for thoughts in case any of you have tryed it.
Great post. I think it's great more people are starting have different play styles with U-Tron.
With dropping repeal do you find your draw power go down or does supreme will and Gifts make up for it?
It's a bit hard to judge if it has gone down, because so much of the draw power comes on flexible cards now. If I need cards I have the option of just recasting a Thirst for Knowledge with a Torrential Gearhulk. Or maybe just changing the mode on Supreme Will However it definitively feels I have enough with this configuration. I believe there is a sweet-spot for dedicated card drawing spells at around 5 cards (thirsts and gifts) due to the risk of having drawing too many. So any other card draw has to come from flexible spells like Supreme Will.
I'm not entirely convinced of Supreme Will yet. much because of the CMC of 3, the deck already runs a lot of CMC 3 spells so it may be hard to find a good spot to cast it. It's possible the slot should have a Snapcaster Mage in that slot instead.
--
My 5-0 in the competitive leagues from yesterday didn't get posted
Not as good as having 6-7 Maps, but it seems like it would increase our chances of having a blue source for our spells, lets us grab Walking B, Void, or some of our SB.
Yes, reduces the chance of a natural tron but increases the chances of a early remand (if you ave remand in hand) and more confidence with the late game).
It seems good playing, but I feel like I'm missing a downside.
I even think this manabase supports double blue spells very consistently.
Youtube Channel
My stream:
www.twitch.tv/pierakor
My Disco:
https://discord.gg/gTt6xHd
Depends on ur build.
Some run more spicy things that u can search for different piles with like crucible and ghostquarter to lock ur opponent out of the game or just simple get value with getting two strong out of four cards.
Look at Pierakor FAQ for a nice peek:
http://magicgatheringstrat.com/2015/09/mono-u-tron-faq/
www.magickeller.de
Facebook:
www.facebook.com/magickeller
Youtube:
Magickeller Hannover YOUTUBE Channel
8 blue lands, Talisman of progress, 1 field of ruin and 3 T. West currently.
I'm going down 1 tron land but up 3 tutors that can fill as land without casting if needed so wouldn't I on average get more mana per game? Just assembled 1 turn later some 5% of the time or something. Plus all 3 tutors can get me Void and Ballista.
What is making me think this is not correct is that since T West has to be cast during main phase, I'm hitting tron in more games BUT usually taking a turn off.
Youtube Channel
My stream:
www.twitch.tv/pierakor
My Disco:
https://discord.gg/gTt6xHd
Also just wanted to throw my list into the stratosphere, I've been super happy with it lately.
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Sundering Titan
1 Treasure Mage
1 Trinket Mage
1 Walking Ballista
1 Wurmcoil Engine
Insants
4 Condescend
2 Dismember
1 Epiphany at the Drownyard
3 Remand
3 Repeal
4 Thirst for Knowledge
Artifacts
4 Expedition Map
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Oblivion Stone
2 Mindslaver
1 Academy Ruins
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Field of Ruin
6 Island
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
2 River of Tears
1 Tolaria West
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
Planeswalker
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Spreading Seas
2 Dismember
1 Negate
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Tectonic Edge
Couple of notes:
Retired
Legacy:
GRUB Lands
Modern:
U Tron
RG Tron
RG Ponza
When talking about Mindslaver.. I´d just wanted to show you what arrived today from Volkan Baga himself:
UTron