I jumped into the deck this friday after reading here silently for a couple weeks.
Played shoktroopa list yesterday at double fnm for a decent finish and alot of fun with a control!!!! deck in modern.
first FNM
R1 win vs junk
R2 draw vs ur twin
R3 loss vs human
R4 loss vs gds
second FNM
R1 win vs rg ponza
R2 win vs naya burn
R3 win vs ur fiend/ice aggro
R4 win vs elves
After my first 8 Rounds playing and not goldfishing i am asking myself if we have any data flying around for:
1.) Gearhulk vs Sundering - in which MU is who better. who wins more games. Double blue a real problem. Do we need more "hard" spells for Gearhulk. and so on
2.) Gemstone Cavern - i played 2 which sounds correct number if playing any of them. But what is the REAL benefit of having them. Do we realy steal games with it through early countermagic/chalice 1 or whatever? - yesterday i was "lucky" one time with them, but could be any sort of mana efficent with them during the game.
I could see a second tecedge/field and a second River of Tears in this slots. Especiliy River sounds nice so EE on 2 is more likly and Dismember (3total) dosnt hurt that much
3.) more or less updated SB guide beside that smal one in the primer
@Alur13: thanks, it makes sense. I will try to get the chalices, but their price tag is a bit too much for me. Meanwhile, I'll look for alternative lists without them.
@MaxeKu: to be honest I never liked gemstone cavern - It has just too random effect to rely on it. For me double river of tears is very good (I play 2 EE in the board along with dismembers).
@about field of ruins: I play 1 field and 1 quarter (which could be tectonic edge I suppose) but affinity is still a decktobeat and infect is rising in my local meta. Although You don't think that it's nice that we have 3 lands to choose of?
@about chalice of the void: It's a card which won games (especially before sideboarding) I don't think it can be replaced by any other card. I used to run 4-of them in the board, then 3-of, 2-of (this is the best number in Mono-U tron IMO) and now I run it as a 1-of in main (along with trinket mage package) only beacuse of artifact hate after sideboard which is just too strong in my local meta. Anyway mono-U tron without at last 1 chalice loses a lot of playpower.
yeah, i hope everyone has replaced GQ with field of ruin at this point. tec edge is also a must imo. in the 75, choose what you want main/side. doesnt matter too much....
currenty off the opts... it was fun. however, dropped talismans for search for azcanta (!-2) ... although it gets boarded out a lot, (like talisman) ... that card pulls its weight! ... also remember when it flips it can draw noncreature cards... which includes planeswalkers and artifacts obv.! ...
had four comp league 4-1s in a row... with modified shok' list including 1x search for azcanta main. .... 2 dismember main also. and 1 karn. normal stuff otherwise. SB difference is just a relic and tormod's crypt for tolaria and trinket targets. instead of posting a list, ill just try and 5-0
I run almost the same list as You Alur - my exeptions are:
-1 mindslaver (don't like playing with 2) + 1 wurmcoil engine
-1 remand -1 crucible +2 spellskite (I'm testing this idea - before it were 2 talismans)
-1 cyclonic rift / + 1 walking ballista (I love to have 2 mainboard)
I'm also on field of ruin + ghost quarter (I like that I can fech blue source when needed) and 2 river of tears (for easy EE on 2).
For side - maybe ugin could be a karn.
For me it looks cool
It's interesting to see that everyone agrees that Chalice is very strong but most are running a 1-1 split. Seems Pie is the only one left running a 2-2. I run 2-1.
I also run the 2-1 chalice split. It's hard to justify a third main board but I want a high enough variance with it that I can steal game one when it's relevant.
Can't decide where I stand on the GQ/ Tec Edge / Field split. Ideally I'd love to be 1 GQ mainboard and 1 Field sideboard but as it's been pointed out tec edge is significantly more relevant against scapeshift. Any other MUs where tec edge shines?
Haha you'd have to be trying to lose that matchup but I get what you're saying.
edit: ALso doesn't really answer the question since the MU is extremely favorable and not really one where tec edge is more relevant than other LD options
But this brings us to my unanswered question from earlier this week, What are the big benefits of gemstone cavern when we hit them on the draw.
I am new to this deck i havnt any expirience about them.
with 3 or 4 dismember urborg could be an option? maybe?
But this brings us to my unanswered question from earlier this week, What are the big benefits of gemstone cavern when we hit them on the draw.
I am new to this deck i havnt any expirience about them.
with 3 or 4 dismember urborg could be an option? maybe?
Hitting those Gemstones on the draw really helps against aggro, at least in my experience.
But this brings us to my unanswered question from earlier this week, What are the big benefits of gemstone cavern when we hit them on the draw.
I am new to this deck i havnt any expirience about them.
with 3 or 4 dismember urborg could be an option? maybe?
Hitting those Gemstones on the draw really helps against aggro, at least in my experience.
Exactly.
Quick example: Chalice, any Land, Gemstone Cavern against Burn on the draw. T1 Chalice instead of T2 can make a big difference here, kills at least 16 Cards out of a regular RW version and you avoid a potential 9dmg turn2. That is just one of many examples that can be made.
But this brings us to my unanswered question from earlier this week, What are the big benefits of gemstone cavern when we hit them on the draw.
I am new to this deck i havnt any expirience about them.
with 3 or 4 dismember urborg could be an option? maybe?
Hitting those Gemstones on the draw really helps against aggro, at least in my experience.
Exactly.
Quick example: Chalice, any Land, Gemstone Cavern against Burn on the draw. T1 Chalice instead of T2 can make a big difference here, kills at least 16 Cards out of a regular RW version and you avoid a potential 9dmg turn2. That is just one of many examples that can be made.
Max
I've also been running Silent Arbiter MD just for aggro. Sometimes it dies right away and sometimes it lives, but it does buy time.
Torriential Gearhulk is in my Snapcaster slot, you need two blue for Snappy anyway, rather than my sundering titan slot. Its an artifact in an artifact deck.
I am really likeing the move to the trinket mage package. I'll find space.
The main and side arguement of the 2-2 total of Mindslaver and Wurmcoil is interesting it is definately higly meta dependant. Match ups where slaver is good and match ups where wurmcoil is good. Then over lay that with your meta.
I am a little concerned moving to river of tears will leave us vunerable to blood moon. Perhaps I am the last bastion of using tailismins in my deck. Makes it easier for me to get double blue and it allows me to take a turn off to jump up a mana and gets me black. Is it our worse card? probably but its also part of the framework of the deck that allows it to run.
If azcanta was an actual land I'd slam it even for a lot more mana on activation... as an enchantment which not a huge amout of deck synergy, errr I am not super enthusatic.
Quote from from="Narvuntien »"
I am a little concerned moving to [card »
river of tears[/card] will leave us vunerable to blood moon. Perhaps I am the last bastion of using tailismins in my deck. Makes it easier for me to get double blue and it allows me to take a turn off to jump up a mana and gets me black. Is it our worse card? probably but its also part of the framework of the deck that allows it to run.
Whats evrybody minimum of basic Islands?
5-6-7?
If ur predicting a meta with nearly or no bloodmoon. Does this could lower the amount of islands and fit in another River for example?
Reason is, i would like to squeeze in a second Rover for better ee=2 and all the dismembers.
I have been playing on paper with this list, I feel that board presence is really important here, so that’s why I cut the 2nd Mindslaver for Gearhulk. It is arguiable, but Gearhulk has the value you give to it. Surprise element is important, and Gearhulk being a 5/6 flashin’ flashbackin’ is just really nice. brought to you by: Treasure mage. I don’t really like 2 cyclonic rifts, a 2nd Ugin is better, IMO. I like counter wars, quoting pie, blue against blue, like mtg was supposed to be.
Here I face many eldrazis, always a couple of burns, Jeskai, UW control, 8rack, Abzan, Junds, coco, not a lot of combo, etc… I feel it is favorable for MonoU Tron. Last couple of times I went 2-1-1 and 2-1-1. Matches take really long with this deck, my losses were 1-0 and I tied 2 times, time was my worst enemy, and misplay, of course, these hurt so much… gotta be careful when making decisions here.
I don’t own EE, Oboro, etc. It is true that they add value, but other stuff have value too, you can win a GP with any deck that makes sense. There was crazy stuff on top 32 of GP São Paulo this year, top8 was, to say the least, exotic. MTG is definetely not what starcitygames shows to us on mainpage.
I watch many of Pie’s video, and some from Shok. Very good lists, and I always peek some mtgtop8 lists, to have some comparison material. I’m really into Gemstone Caverns, it helps you get there a turn earlier, 1 mana counterspells are really strong, chalice/dismember are MVP and board presence with some huge ass creature/Ugin.
Keep playin people!
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I jumped into the deck this friday after reading here silently for a couple weeks.
Played shoktroopa list yesterday at double fnm for a decent finish and alot of fun with a control!!!! deck in modern.
first FNM
R1 win vs junk
R2 draw vs ur twin
R3 loss vs human
R4 loss vs gds
second FNM
R1 win vs rg ponza
R2 win vs naya burn
R3 win vs ur fiend/ice aggro
R4 win vs elves
After my first 8 Rounds playing and not goldfishing i am asking myself if we have any data flying around for:
1.) Gearhulk vs Sundering - in which MU is who better. who wins more games. Double blue a real problem. Do we need more "hard" spells for Gearhulk. and so on
2.) Gemstone Cavern - i played 2 which sounds correct number if playing any of them. But what is the REAL benefit of having them. Do we realy steal games with it through early countermagic/chalice 1 or whatever? - yesterday i was "lucky" one time with them, but could be any sort of mana efficent with them during the game.
I could see a second tecedge/field and a second River of Tears in this slots. Especiliy River sounds nice so EE on 2 is more likly and Dismember (3total) dosnt hurt that much
3.) more or less updated SB guide beside that smal one in the primer
Cheers.
www.magickeller.de
Facebook:
www.facebook.com/magickeller
Youtube:
Magickeller Hannover YOUTUBE Channel
@about field of ruins: I play 1 field and 1 quarter (which could be tectonic edge I suppose) but affinity is still a decktobeat and infect is rising in my local meta. Although You don't think that it's nice that we have 3 lands to choose of?
@about chalice of the void: It's a card which won games (especially before sideboarding) I don't think it can be replaced by any other card. I used to run 4-of them in the board, then 3-of, 2-of (this is the best number in Mono-U tron IMO) and now I run it as a 1-of in main (along with trinket mage package) only beacuse of artifact hate after sideboard which is just too strong in my local meta. Anyway mono-U tron without at last 1 chalice loses a lot of playpower.
Anyone think Oboro will get reprinted anytime soon? I really want one but I'm not willing to pay$25 for it.
So is 2nd Ugin.
Youtube Channel
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https://discord.gg/gTt6xHd
currenty off the opts... it was fun. however, dropped talismans for search for azcanta (!-2) ... although it gets boarded out a lot, (like talisman) ... that card pulls its weight! ... also remember when it flips it can draw noncreature cards... which includes planeswalkers and artifacts obv.! ...
had four comp league 4-1s in a row... with modified shok' list including 1x search for azcanta main. .... 2 dismember main also. and 1 karn. normal stuff otherwise. SB difference is just a relic and tormod's crypt for tolaria and trinket targets. instead of posting a list, ill just try and 5-0
-1 mindslaver (don't like playing with 2) + 1 wurmcoil engine
-1 remand -1 crucible +2 spellskite (I'm testing this idea - before it were 2 talismans)
-1 cyclonic rift / + 1 walking ballista (I love to have 2 mainboard)
I'm also on field of ruin + ghost quarter (I like that I can fech blue source when needed) and 2 river of tears (for easy EE on 2).
For side - maybe ugin could be a karn.
For me it looks cool
Thanks for the list @Alur13, it looks great.
Can't decide where I stand on the GQ/ Tec Edge / Field split. Ideally I'd love to be 1 GQ mainboard and 1 Field sideboard but as it's been pointed out tec edge is significantly more relevant against scapeshift. Any other MUs where tec edge shines?
Retired
Legacy:
GRUB Lands
Modern:
U Tron
RG Tron
RG Ponza
edit: ALso doesn't really answer the question since the MU is extremely favorable and not really one where tec edge is more relevant than other LD options
Retired
Legacy:
GRUB Lands
Modern:
U Tron
RG Tron
RG Ponza
www.magickeller.de
Facebook:
www.facebook.com/magickeller
Youtube:
Magickeller Hannover YOUTUBE Channel
I am new to this deck i havnt any expirience about them.
with 3 or 4 dismember urborg could be an option? maybe?
www.magickeller.de
Facebook:
www.facebook.com/magickeller
Youtube:
Magickeller Hannover YOUTUBE Channel
Hitting those Gemstones on the draw really helps against aggro, at least in my experience.
Exactly.
Quick example: Chalice, any Land, Gemstone Cavern against Burn on the draw. T1 Chalice instead of T2 can make a big difference here, kills at least 16 Cards out of a regular RW version and you avoid a potential 9dmg turn2. That is just one of many examples that can be made.
Max
UTron
I've also been running Silent Arbiter MD just for aggro. Sometimes it dies right away and sometimes it lives, but it does buy time.
I am really likeing the move to the trinket mage package. I'll find space.
The main and side arguement of the 2-2 total of Mindslaver and Wurmcoil is interesting it is definately higly meta dependant. Match ups where slaver is good and match ups where wurmcoil is good. Then over lay that with your meta.
I am a little concerned moving to river of tears will leave us vunerable to blood moon. Perhaps I am the last bastion of using tailismins in my deck. Makes it easier for me to get double blue and it allows me to take a turn off to jump up a mana and gets me black. Is it our worse card? probably but its also part of the framework of the deck that allows it to run.
If azcanta was an actual land I'd slam it even for a lot more mana on activation... as an enchantment which not a huge amout of deck synergy, errr I am not super enthusatic.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Whats evrybody minimum of basic Islands?
5-6-7?
If ur predicting a meta with nearly or no bloodmoon. Does this could lower the amount of islands and fit in another River for example?
Reason is, i would like to squeeze in a second Rover for better ee=2 and all the dismembers.
www.magickeller.de
Facebook:
www.facebook.com/magickeller
Youtube:
Magickeller Hannover YOUTUBE Channel
1 Trinket Mage
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Treasure Mage
1 Platinum Angel
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Sundering Titan
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Mindslaver
4 Expedition Map
1 Cyclonic Rift
2 Dismember
3 Repeal
3 Remand
4 Condescend
4 Thirst for Knowledge
7 Island
1 Academy Ruins
1 Tolaria West
1 Tectonic Edge
2 Gemstone Caverns
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Tower
4 Urza's Power Plant
Sideboard
1 Negate
2 Spreading Seas
1 Field of Ruin
1 Ghost Quarters
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Spatial Contortion
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Dispel
1 Spell Snare
1 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Filigree Familiar
1 Mindslaver
I have been playing on paper with this list, I feel that board presence is really important here, so that’s why I cut the 2nd Mindslaver for Gearhulk. It is arguiable, but Gearhulk has the value you give to it. Surprise element is important, and Gearhulk being a 5/6 flashin’ flashbackin’ is just really nice. brought to you by: Treasure mage. I don’t really like 2 cyclonic rifts, a 2nd Ugin is better, IMO. I like counter wars, quoting pie, blue against blue, like mtg was supposed to be.
Here I face many eldrazis, always a couple of burns, Jeskai, UW control, 8rack, Abzan, Junds, coco, not a lot of combo, etc… I feel it is favorable for MonoU Tron. Last couple of times I went 2-1-1 and 2-1-1. Matches take really long with this deck, my losses were 1-0 and I tied 2 times, time was my worst enemy, and misplay, of course, these hurt so much… gotta be careful when making decisions here.
I don’t own EE, Oboro, etc. It is true that they add value, but other stuff have value too, you can win a GP with any deck that makes sense. There was crazy stuff on top 32 of GP São Paulo this year, top8 was, to say the least, exotic. MTG is definetely not what starcitygames shows to us on mainpage.
I watch many of Pie’s video, and some from Shok. Very good lists, and I always peek some mtgtop8 lists, to have some comparison material. I’m really into Gemstone Caverns, it helps you get there a turn earlier, 1 mana counterspells are really strong, chalice/dismember are MVP and board presence with some huge ass creature/Ugin.
Keep playin people!