MTG Salvation

Hmmm I need 12 opts now. (Standard deck, 2x modern decks).. I really should of just preordered them or something because I currently own 1 after all the sealed I have beeen doing.

I have been farming store credit trying to get the chalice of the void (normal not masterpiece) sitting in my LGS cabnet, my MM17 Tarmogofy isn't even worth half of it :'( (It would be my second). Also still trying to get that Walking ballista. Perhaps a trinket mage package sideboard with all these 1 of I have.

Seeing as Contortion is out of meta that would be the easy cut for Opt
I like NuBlkAu list.

It is a bit too hard to slow to flip azcanta in my opinion and other than being a go late game card I am not sure it synergises that well. I kind of wish it was a land (even with a more balanced mana cost)

I'm surprised people are so eager to cut chalices. I would give it relevancy in more than 40% of matches as it always feels like it's shutting down something in every deck. The last time I ran Mono U in a tournament people treated it as a card they HAD to answer each time it came out.

Umm, cutting chalice or Spatial are both terrible ideas. If you can't afford to buy Chalices than you can't afford to buy Mono U Tron. I'm sorry, that is harsh but the way it is.

Both people that are really supporting the opt plan have the chalices in the board. We arnt cutting them completely we are moving one from the main to the side. Its not a "i cant afford the cards" thing, its a i've now played three comp leagues with two 4-1 and a 5-0 finish and NuBlkAu has had similar results. Did you read the posts? We have chalices in the side and thats where they are good. If chalice is good against 40% of the field then it shouldnt be a main deck card. I want my main to cover the 60% first and then bring in the hate for that other 40% post board.

Search for azcanta is too slow and this is a deck that really doesnt like to tap out unless it wins the game. Which is why opt is so excellent, you keep up your mana and dig for the combo or whatever.

I think with the opts you dont need the trinket mages to find the sb hate now. I'm liking the 2 treasure mage main which allows you to go pretty hard on slaver g1 when interaction is very minimal, and then opt gets you too the chalice/ee/other hate post board. Currently my list has the same main as NuBlkAu with a trade of snap for his second wurm. My Sb is: 2 chailce, 1 ee, 1 tormod's crypt, 1 trinisphere, 1 aetherize, 3 spatial, 2 dismember, 2 spreading seas, 1 wurmcoil, 1 walking balista. So as you can see the opts weren't "budget concerns" they were just better imo.

He's not saying to play Anticipate, he is saying Anticipate is better than Opt.

Quote from rjawa2 »

Both people that are really supporting the opt plan have the chalices in the board. We arnt cutting them completely we are moving one from the main to the side. Its not a "i cant afford the cards" thing, its a i've now played three comp leagues with two 4-1 and a 5-0 finish and NuBlkAu has had similar results. Did you read the posts? We have chalices in the side and thats where they are good. If chalice is good against 40% of the field then it shouldnt be a main deck card. I want my main to cover the 60% first and then bring in the hate for that other 40% post board.

Search for azcanta is too slow and this is a deck that really doesnt like to tap out unless it wins the game. Which is why opt is so excellent, you keep up your mana and dig for the combo or whatever.

I think with the opts you dont need the trinket mages to find the sb hate now. I'm liking the 2 treasure mage main which allows you to go pretty hard on slaver g1 when interaction is very minimal, and then opt gets you too the chalice/ee/other hate post board. Currently my list has the same main as NuBlkAu with a trade of snap for his second wurm. My Sb is: 2 chailce, 1 ee, 1 tormod's crypt, 1 trinisphere, 1 aetherize, 3 spatial, 2 dismember, 2 spreading seas, 1 wurmcoil, 1 walking balista. So as you can see the opts weren't "budget concerns" they were just better imo.

The person who I was replying to said he couldn't afford Chalice's. I thought that was clear by the fact that I also mentioned Spatial Contortion like he did. And to answer your question, no, when I don't visit this site for weeks I don't read all the posts I miss.

I also only play on paper, so idk what a competitive league is. I can only assume that it is equivalent to an fnm.

competitive leagues are more competitive than fmn. more like an IQ or pptq.

friendly leagues are like fnm i guess...

anyways. yeah, opt just helps smooth things out. even when not turn one theres these situations:

t4 tron+island... opt, then play wurm/angel.
thirst+opt eot turn 4.
t3 2 island 1 tron: opt for remand/condescend/etc

when chalice on one is a plan, i would cut opt before map because map gets pitched to thirst.


another new card note: field of ruin has pretty much replaced ghost quarter for me... seems like a strict upgrade so far.

-gq takes us down a land (which we never want to be) ... FoR is even, as is tec edge.
-FoR mana fixes us while destroying a pesky land . it turns into an island. perfect.
-2 cmc activation is not a big deal, the only match it matters is tron, but i hate ghost quartering a tron land anyways unless i have extraction. use spreading seas for a better effect.

Quote from MonoredBoss »

Why not do the same but getting more info with Peek? Its instant speed, same cost and a card for other card, but better because you can make better choices.

The ability to dig two cards in with Opt's scry makes it leaps and bounds better than Peek. Having information without removing a card like with Thoughtseize doesn't help as much with a deck like this that will end up trying to win several turns later. A peek effect is better when you plan on winning that turn or a turn later a/k/a Infect because very little information changes.

I have to agree with OptGuys, chalice is overrated right now - I use 1 mainboard (+1 from side) and it's cool but against sidehate in game 2/3 it's hard to really count on them.
Still confused about opt I really disllike the mana cost - but TBH this can be Our new key card in the deck.
I'm really curious what about opt think the mono-U-tron masters like pierakor or shoktroopa.

Any thoughts from You Guys?

For Mono U Tron Opt is better than Serum Visions and Peek for sure. I still won't play it because I think it's worse than Anticipate/Supreme Will and blocked by Chalice. What you have to keep in mind is the actual cost of the card is higher in our deck than in many others. Blue mana is a scarce resource to us whereas we have some colorless mana to spare often enough. Therefore, the difference between "U" and "1U" for us is "smaller" than it would be for other decks. I think when you cast Opt you will very often have colorless mana left over anyway, as that is the case even with Anticipate and Thirst! If you have only one Island and two colorless mana would you rather cast Opt or literally any other blue spell we have? It's an easy question to answer. And then there is Chalice of the Void. Opt and Chalice make each other worse and I believe Chalice is very strong, definitely stronger than Opt. It's been strong almost the entire time since Treasure Cruise meta but it is also strong right now. I basically play some number of Chalice in every matchup except Coco decks and E-Tron.

Chalice gives our deck game against decks it doesn't deserve to have game against. Cutting it for a scry 1/draw 1 seems real bad.



I have a month and a half till my RPTQ, and unless the meta shifts in such a way to invalidate aggro, my deck will have 4 chalice's in the 75.

I think Chalice is a meta slot. on MTGO, or with a preponderance of Affinity, burn, or something else where an early chalice is a big deal, Chalice makes perfect sense. My local meta has a ton of three color goodstuff decks like Abzan, UW control and Grixis Delver/Shadow, so I don't see it being as critical. Granted, I've been playing more storm lately, but I'm about to switch back and give Opt a whirl for the sake of playtesting. I'd rather play a dozen matches and find out its bad than risk passing on a good card due to theory.

I think Chalice is a meta slot. on MTGO, or with a preponderance of Affinity, burn, or something else where an early chalice is a big deal, Chalice makes perfect sense. My local meta has a ton of three color goodstuff decks like Abzan, UW control and Grixis Delver/Shadow, so I don't see it being as critical. Granted, I've been playing more storm lately, but I'm about to switch back and give Opt a whirl for the sake of playtesting. I'd rather play a dozen matches and find out its bad than risk passing on a good card due to theory.

tks is nice in SB i think.

yall hating on opt because of theory is funny... i was in the same boat, but i am open minded and will try things. i tried it and feel like it plays out better than it might seem on paper/in theory. just give it a shot! ... we dont rely on chalice, its not a crutch, we can win with 0 chalice! ...

I was playing him for awhile, but I ended up cutting him for Walking Ballista. Just more relevant in more matchups.

Quote from NuBlkAu »

tks is nice in SB i think.

yall hating on opt because of theory is funny... i was in the same boat, but i am open minded and will try things. i tried it and feel like it plays out better than it might seem on paper/in theory. just give it a shot! ... we dont rely on chalice, its not a crutch, we can win with 0 chalice! ...

Of course you can win with 0 Chalice, people win every day despite making bad deckbuilding decisions. Doesn't mean we can't use reason and logic when deckbuilding to get an advantage over those who just play "what feels right"

TKS seems so bad right now, ever since Shadow and Fatal Push became a thing. So often there will be efficient removal or a bigger creature on the board. As I've said many months ago: TKS is good when there is no efficient removal for it (no Push, Terminate,... only Path, Bolt) and TKS can dominate the board (no Goyf, Tasigur, Angler, Shadow, Reality Smasher... only 2/2s, 3/3s and such). We had that time for about a year before Fatal Push iirc but now is literally the opposite...

It's a meta call. For exemple: I run 1 solemn, 1 trinket mage and... 3x walking ballista (I moved mainboard EE to side to make a slot for it). Imo ballista is the card which make this deck viable - not opt and even not chalice of the void. Ballista do wonders in every stage of the game. 3 can be greedy but 2-of them shines

Thx Pierakor for Your "OPT" opinion, It's similiar to mine - The U cost doesn't matter too much for us - this one blue mana is too important to lose it for OPT. Ofc goin with 2 talismans will smooth the things out but cutting chalices isn't really way to go (even If You run 1 or 2 they just win games or stall them long enough).

You don't need to be sarcastic Mtgnorin I just don't like to force "the opened doors" - Asking better players can only guide You to better deckbuilding decisions. I know that brewing with new (or some old but fancy cards) sometimes work. But in game of magic You can win with bag of potatoes when You got "just this day" (no matter what cards You brew).
I tried serum visions and anticipates before and they just wasn't enough. I don't think that Opt really changes anything here.
Anyway, I will look carefully for Your opt lists, keep brewing and exploring new ideas cheers!

About TKS. You only bring it in in control matches or matches with no removal (combo)

Yes:
G or U tron
Titanshift
Burn

Sure:
Ad nauseum
Gifts storm
Misc combo.

I don't play it. But it's acceptable SB. More counters also works in those slots.

I have tested myr battlesphere, its quite good because comes with myrs, does direct damage and its off the range of most removal. But ballista is cheaper and better, wurmcoil is cheaper and better, targeted by the same kind of removal, same for gearhulk. I rather have any of these dudes in my hand other than a battlesphere, but of course, a battlesphere is a bomb, when you are ahead in the game, so it doesnt really matter what bomb you drop at that time.