What are your oppinions on Bomat Courier?
Turn 1 this could be very good but later on it just gets blocked and we could get 1 card for it.
If we can exile like 3 cards with the first one and we cast a second one we can't sac it to get the cards exiled with the first one, am I right? Otherwise this would be very good.
Whenever a card mentions its own name in an effect like this, it refers specifically to ~this~ instance of the object. So if you attack with this three times and then it gets Flickerwisp'd, it forgets about those 3 cards. They're gone forever. So no, a second one won't be able to get those cards either.
If it said "Put all cards exiled by cards named Bomat Courier" then it would work, but I'm not sure that templating has ever been used.
This thread seems pretty dead lately.
Is the deck really that bad right now, or is the community of UWR delver/Tempo that small.
Or did the majority of the UWR control players just switch to Nahiri, because its better or more competitive.
I would love to see this thread alive once again.
I think it's a combination of a lot of things you mentioned,also there is a thread for the prowess version in deck creation, probably could be merged? I imagine it was split for a reason though even though the philosophy is similar.
It probably just isn't piloted that much currently
I will pay the thread you mentioned a visit.
Nevertheless it would be nice if this thread could come back to life somehow.
Currently i am assembling a list without delver, with one-offs of Geist of Saint Traft, Bedlam Reveler, Vendilion Clique in conjunction with a singleton of Eiganjo Castle which i am very impressed with.
Sometimes it creates odd draws but this happens rarely.
Geist is a powerhouse against jund, i think.
It is easily blocked but with a helix or a bolt in hand, or castle on the field it can do some serious work. And the 4/4 angel can bring the opponent down into bolt-snap-bolt range pretty fast.
I will ask the Mods if we can have the Jeskai Prowess and Deskai Delver threads merged as they are very similar decks. The jeskai prowess (aka Jeskai Way) thread in the deck creation section has a somewhat substantial group of regular posters and is fairly active. Many of them, including myself, play a delver variant. You should check that thread out.
I will send an email to the mods to see what I can do to have the threads merged.
I actually think this deck is in a great position right now. The jeskai delver deck has a ton of efficient answers in lightning bolt and Path to Exile to deal with the aggressive decks and has countermagic to help deal with the combo/ramp style decks. In combination with very efficient threats in Delver of Secrets, Geist of Saint Traft, Monastery Swiftspear, and Snapcaster Mage allows for a quick clock as well. I really don't see why more people aren't giving this deck a try.
We do struggle slightly against midrange builds, but Bedlam Reveler has helped those matchups a ton. In addition, Geist of Saint Traft can be a huge help in those matchups as well. In addition, the deck is very malleable and can be tweaked more towards control or aggro given the meta your facing.
Some players prefer the more tempo based Temur builds and the grixis builds (which I think are more on the control end) have gotten most of the publicity. However, I personally like the jeskai variant in the very aggressive modern format right now. I do have to say I am extremely biased towards jeskai so my opinion isn't the most objective opinion in the world .
Thanks for the help and merging the two threads seems perfect!
Right now i am reading through your thread and primer and I am kind off feeling at home.
I will try contributing to is as well if my deck fits the theme.
The one offs look a little bit odd but I am pretty pleased with them.
I would love to hear your oppinion on the list and I am curious if the list fits into the other thread as well.
I don't think it looks odd at all. However, I love decks that have been tuned to the player's preference and I typically have several 1 of's in my decks. It actually fits great into the other thread as well. We are currently disccussing Young Pyromancer in jeskai tempo right now. A lot of the regular posters on the other threat started with a delver/swiftspear list, but many are trying a young pyromancer build now. I don't have a ton of experience with Young Pyromancer so your experience would be very helpful.
The deck looks awesome as is. The only question I do have is how Grim Lavamancer and Bedlam Reveler have played together so far. I have moved my Grim lavamancer out of my board because I wanted to keep the cards in my graveyard for the Revelers and I also didn't want to get to heavy on the graveyard theme. Other than that, the deck looks sweet. I would love to see some play notes/results sometime. Feel free to post on the other thread any time. I know a lot of players would love to see your list. I will also keep working on getting the threads merged at some point.
I'm very interested in building jeskai delver right now. I'm currently on grixis delver but I feel the white cards including path, geist, helix, and all the sideboard cards would make a good deck. I'm just scared because the idea seems good on paper and in my head but it has no results in real life.
Meant to write this earlier, but I've been playing Overturf's Jeskai Delver build the last few weeks. I recently made the switch from Grixis because I love Spell Queller, and Jeskai is my spirit animal. Anyway, here's my list:
I don't have many notes from my last FNM, but I went 4-1 beating Merfolk, Burn, Infect, and Tron. But lost to Jund (the deck's worst matchup. I was testing Secure the Wastes out of the side against BGx decks (still trying to find a way to win that matchup), and it single-handedly won me the only game against them.
Overall, the deck feels great and I'm going to keep tweaking the sideboard. I might want to find a non-boltable creature for the maindeck or SB, but I have yet to find one I like. The fastlands are such an improvement over Sulfur Falls and I'm happy to have them. Would love any recommendations on how to beat the BGx decks of the format.
I have been testing with YP and selfless spirit. So far it's been very good,its kept delver and YP alive more often than not.Myth has been so so,sometimes it's won me the game,can tick up if we don't play counters so our mana isn't wasted but sometimes seems underwhelming in other matches.I started using it after I was constantly being destroyed by anger of the gods.
I have followed the thread constantly but I feel my input is limited since I only have it in paper and live in a small town where only a few others have top decks.
Online seems to be where most play and the wife would kill me if I spent more than a few bucks a month online.
My online WUR is more budget and doesn't perform like my paper version where I have fetches,pains and flagstones making a much better mana base.
Delver flips still scare people,that says something.
I have been testing with YP and selfless spirit. So far it's been very good,its kept delver and YP alive more often than not.Myth has been so so,sometimes it's won me the game,can tick up if we don't play counters so our mana isn't wasted but sometimes seems underwhelming in other matches.I started using it after I was constantly being destroyed by anger of the gods.
I have followed the thread constantly but I feel my input is limited since I only have it in paper and live in a small town where only a few others have top decks.
Online seems to be where most play and the wife would kill me if I spent more than a few bucks a month online.
My online WUR is more budget and doesn't perform like my paper version where I have fetches,pains and flagstones making a much better mana base.
Delver flips still scare people,that says something.
Have you tried Boros Charm? Unlike selfless spirit, it helps flip delver and gives you more tokens with Young Pyromancer. If you run 4 of them, you can be really super aggresive playing almost like a burn deck but having the upside of being able to protect your treats
I used to play a really aggro version of ths, but haven't tried a full set of Boros Charm. Time to brew! The UR burn/delver is pretty good, and all three modes on the charm are good... I'll post full list later but I'm thinking it will have this creature base:
...and should run both Mutagenic Growth and Vapor Snag in the main. All counters in the side, and just pray to be fast enough to beat Scapeshift/Tron game 1.
I liked reflector mage and mockery together,tried it in UW spirits but it's too creature heavy for my tastes so I'm trying it in delver.
So far it's not bad,found that mockery on YP is also good.It doubles the tokens if you play instants, and with jalira it synergizes well allowing you to sac the token if your attacking to possibly hit a more relevant creature like snappy or or a mage.
I find myself digging for the mage and mockery because unless they can drop multiples out that weren't bounced the same turn they can't get ahead.Combined with all the counters and burn they can't get on the board.
Mockery is also good attached to opponents threat since you always get an equivalent token to block with.
Sideboard is a quick throw together so I had something,havent sided out much too often.
Just edited after a few changes.
As a side note I want to mention I've tried without the delvers but they are too strong,my opponents always try removing the mage's and clique,delver always pings away unmolested.
Hello again,love talk more on delver.
The mirror mockery are probably the cards most people don't like in my list but I've had good results with it,its a recurring snapcaster,clique or reflector,can also be an early turn two goyf or other creature as a defender.
I have a playset of ancestral vision I was thinking of adding or replacing the serums.
I'm also feel YP doesn't do it here.Maybe the AV's... faith's reward might be an option too.
So I found reflector mage mirror mockery synergy works really well against dredge,saving counterspells for conflag and other hate.
Still need to adjust mana base,right now I'm back to 17 but I feel like I'm always the one mana short to play as aggressive and interactive as I want.
That's some really cool tech. I have never thought of that.
I am an 18 lands and have been there for a bit. I have found 18 to be the sweet spot, but it really depends on how many cantrips I am running and what top end spells I am running.
Yeah it's sweet synergy,sideboard is mostly test cards for MB options.
I have another one online that's similar.It isn't running delver but it's in color,i removed delver because I don't have selfless spirit online to keep him alive. TiTi fills those slots and condemn replaces some spirits.
Molten rains and relic(with GQ'S MB) are answers to dredge,affinity, valakut,bogles,tron,infect and the like.
condemn works good in this deck,i try and hold it to save a flipped thing and gain the life off it since my opponents usually wait until I attack with him to kill it.Also it's worth noting that it goes to the bottom of the deck so I gain 8 life and keep my creature.
proteus staff I really like if I can get it to stick and stay around for a bit.It puts snappy,thing or reflector on the bottom of MY LIBRARY and gets either snappy,thing or reflector back on the battlefield without paying the mana cost.I also get to stack the cards revealed so I can remove land clumps or creature build ups. One blue,two colorless to activate each turn isn't bad.
venser, the sojourner is handy as it allows me to replay snappy or a mage and he makes Titi unblockable. I've never been able to use his ultimate.Its not as impressive as I thought it would be.
[c]mirror mockery[c] is the ultimate tech for blue.I love this card.Its two mana,can copy opponents creatures so we always have a blocker of equal value,its even better copying a snapcaster they own (time warp decks especially). With reflector and snappy of our own it adds nothing but value.Its worth a single use,getting multiple attacks in makes it well worth the slots.
Without selfless spirit I feel this version of the deck is better without delver.
Although after using condemn again I think I'll try it in my paper deck so I can save delver/spirit by putting it back in my library and gain a life or two.
Played a version, very similar to Overturf's, at a local event this past week. Didn't drop a single game the whole night, and the list felt great. I've been between this deck and Grixis Delver/Control the last month or so, getting prepared for an upcoming IQ. List for reference:
The night was four rounds, with a cut to top 8. In order, I played against Infect, Jund, Kiki-Chord, Affinity, and Burn before splitting the finals.
Infect and Affinity were pretty typical, flip a Delver and Bolt the stuff. I feel like I stole game 2 against Jund because he incorrectly fetched and cut himself short on red Mana. Kiki-Chord was interesting. I basically just kept up Queller/Counter Magic to play around Resto and Chord. Burn was an easy 2-0 between Helix and counters.
Thoughts on the deck, Spell Queller is fantastic and probably the reason I prefer this color combo over Grixis Delver. Clique was the only card I didn't love seeing, but he's never a bad card anyway. I'm still between this and Grixis Control for the IQ, but I'm leaning toward this list as it fits my playstyle a little more.
Just thought I'd share my experience and keep this thread alive.
Played a few rounds lately and I've added 2 hallowed moonlight into my SB for dredge/reanimator,coco,vial and token decks.It also acts as a cantrip so that's a plus.
Also had a mirror match that was actually quite fun,the player was on his game but I topdecked game 3 a boros charm for the damage I needed.
Whenever a card mentions its own name in an effect like this, it refers specifically to ~this~ instance of the object. So if you attack with this three times and then it gets Flickerwisp'd, it forgets about those 3 cards. They're gone forever. So no, a second one won't be able to get those cards either.
If it said "Put all cards exiled by cards named Bomat Courier" then it would work, but I'm not sure that templating has ever been used.
I think it's a combination of a lot of things you mentioned,also there is a thread for the prowess version in deck creation, probably could be merged? I imagine it was split for a reason though even though the philosophy is similar.
It probably just isn't piloted that much currently
I will ask the Mods if we can have the Jeskai Prowess and Deskai Delver threads merged as they are very similar decks. The jeskai prowess (aka Jeskai Way) thread in the deck creation section has a somewhat substantial group of regular posters and is fairly active. Many of them, including myself, play a delver variant. You should check that thread out.
I will send an email to the mods to see what I can do to have the threads merged.
I actually think this deck is in a great position right now. The jeskai delver deck has a ton of efficient answers in lightning bolt and Path to Exile to deal with the aggressive decks and has countermagic to help deal with the combo/ramp style decks. In combination with very efficient threats in Delver of Secrets, Geist of Saint Traft, Monastery Swiftspear, and Snapcaster Mage allows for a quick clock as well. I really don't see why more people aren't giving this deck a try.
We do struggle slightly against midrange builds, but Bedlam Reveler has helped those matchups a ton. In addition, Geist of Saint Traft can be a huge help in those matchups as well. In addition, the deck is very malleable and can be tweaked more towards control or aggro given the meta your facing.
Some players prefer the more tempo based Temur builds and the grixis builds (which I think are more on the control end) have gotten most of the publicity. However, I personally like the jeskai variant in the very aggressive modern format right now. I do have to say I am extremely biased towards jeskai so my opinion isn't the most objective opinion in the world .
What is your current list Mazereon?
I don't think it looks odd at all. However, I love decks that have been tuned to the player's preference and I typically have several 1 of's in my decks. It actually fits great into the other thread as well. We are currently disccussing Young Pyromancer in jeskai tempo right now. A lot of the regular posters on the other threat started with a delver/swiftspear list, but many are trying a young pyromancer build now. I don't have a ton of experience with Young Pyromancer so your experience would be very helpful.
The deck looks awesome as is. The only question I do have is how Grim Lavamancer and Bedlam Reveler have played together so far. I have moved my Grim lavamancer out of my board because I wanted to keep the cards in my graveyard for the Revelers and I also didn't want to get to heavy on the graveyard theme. Other than that, the deck looks sweet. I would love to see some play notes/results sometime. Feel free to post on the other thread any time. I know a lot of players would love to see your list. I will also keep working on getting the threads merged at some point.
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Spell Queller
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
3 Mana Leak
2 Remand
4 Spell Snare
1 Electrolyze
4 Flooded Strand
2 Steam Vents
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Spirebluff Canal
2 Seachrome Coast
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Dispel
3 Negate
2 Spell Pierce
1 Secure the Wastes
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Molten Rain
I don't have many notes from my last FNM, but I went 4-1 beating Merfolk, Burn, Infect, and Tron. But lost to Jund (the deck's worst matchup. I was testing Secure the Wastes out of the side against BGx decks (still trying to find a way to win that matchup), and it single-handedly won me the only game against them.
Overall, the deck feels great and I'm going to keep tweaking the sideboard. I might want to find a non-boltable creature for the maindeck or SB, but I have yet to find one I like. The fastlands are such an improvement over Sulfur Falls and I'm happy to have them. Would love any recommendations on how to beat the BGx decks of the format.
I have followed the thread constantly but I feel my input is limited since I only have it in paper and live in a small town where only a few others have top decks.
Online seems to be where most play and the wife would kill me if I spent more than a few bucks a month online.
My online WUR is more budget and doesn't perform like my paper version where I have fetches,pains and flagstones making a much better mana base.
Delver flips still scare people,that says something.
Flipping Delvers since 2011
MY DECKS
Modern: UR Izzet Delver
Pauper: U Delver Faeries | R Red Burn | GInfect
Commander: WB Athreos, God of Passage | UR Keranos Spellslinger | GWU Derevi, Tempo Tactician | BGU Tasigur, the Golden Fang | RW Feather, the Redeemed
Does a full four work best?
...and should run both Mutagenic Growth and Vapor Snag in the main. All counters in the side, and just pray to be fast enough to beat Scapeshift/Tron game 1.
3 young pyromancer
4 reflector mage
3 selfless spirit
1 snapcaster mage
1 vendilion clique
1 jalira,master polymorphist
4 mirror mockery
4 serum visions
4 lightning helix
4 lightning bolt
4 remand
4 mana leak
1 turn aside
1 cyclonic rift
4 sacred foundry
2 hallowed fountain
3 flooded strand
1 arid mesa
2 island
1 plains
1 Unsummon
1 bloodmoon
3 Cloudshift
2 Cyclonic rift
2 Negate
2 Path to exile
2 Bedlam reveler
2 Apostles blessing
I liked reflector mage and mockery together,tried it in UW spirits but it's too creature heavy for my tastes so I'm trying it in delver.
So far it's not bad,found that mockery on YP is also good.It doubles the tokens if you play instants, and with jalira it synergizes well allowing you to sac the token if your attacking to possibly hit a more relevant creature like snappy or or a mage.
I find myself digging for the mage and mockery because unless they can drop multiples out that weren't bounced the same turn they can't get ahead.Combined with all the counters and burn they can't get on the board.
Mockery is also good attached to opponents threat since you always get an equivalent token to block with.
Sideboard is a quick throw together so I had something,havent sided out much too often.
Just edited after a few changes.
As a side note I want to mention I've tried without the delvers but they are too strong,my opponents always try removing the mage's and clique,delver always pings away unmolested.
The mirror mockery are probably the cards most people don't like in my list but I've had good results with it,its a recurring snapcaster,clique or reflector,can also be an early turn two goyf or other creature as a defender.
I have a playset of ancestral vision I was thinking of adding or replacing the serums.
I'm also feel YP doesn't do it here.Maybe the AV's...
faith's reward might be an option too.
Any thoughts on improvements?
Still need to adjust mana base,right now I'm back to 17 but I feel like I'm always the one mana short to play as aggressive and interactive as I want.
I am an 18 lands and have been there for a bit. I have found 18 to be the sweet spot, but it really depends on how many cantrips I am running and what top end spells I am running.
I have another one online that's similar.It isn't running delver but it's in color,i removed delver because I don't have selfless spirit online to keep him alive. TiTi fills those slots and condemn replaces some spirits.
Molten rains and relic(with GQ'S MB) are answers to dredge,affinity, valakut,bogles,tron,infect and the like.
4 thing in the ice
1 snapcaster mage
4 mirror mockery
4 boros charm
4 lightning helix
4 lightning bolt
4 mana leak
4 remand
4 serum visions
3 path to exile
2 condemn
1 cyclonic rift
2 steam vents
2 hallowed fountain
2 sacred foundry
1 flooded strand
3 ghost quarter
2 island
1 mountain
1 plains
2 cyclonic rift
2 vapor snag
3 molten rain
2 ancient grudge
2 apostle's blessing
2 relic of progenitus
2 proteus staff
1 venser, the sojourner
condemn works good in this deck,i try and hold it to save a flipped thing and gain the life off it since my opponents usually wait until I attack with him to kill it.Also it's worth noting that it goes to the bottom of the deck so I gain 8 life and keep my creature.
proteus staff I really like if I can get it to stick and stay around for a bit.It puts snappy,thing or reflector on the bottom of MY LIBRARY and gets either snappy,thing or reflector back on the battlefield without paying the mana cost.I also get to stack the cards revealed so I can remove land clumps or creature build ups. One blue,two colorless to activate each turn isn't bad.
venser, the sojourner is handy as it allows me to replay snappy or a mage and he makes Titi unblockable. I've never been able to use his ultimate.Its not as impressive as I thought it would be.
[c]mirror mockery[c] is the ultimate tech for blue.I love this card.Its two mana,can copy opponents creatures so we always have a blocker of equal value,its even better copying a snapcaster they own (time warp decks especially). With reflector and snappy of our own it adds nothing but value.Its worth a single use,getting multiple attacks in makes it well worth the slots.
Without selfless spirit I feel this version of the deck is better without delver.
Although after using condemn again I think I'll try it in my paper deck so I can save delver/spirit by putting it back in my library and gain a life or two.
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Spell Queller
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
4 Mana Leak
4 Spell Snare
2 Electrolyze
4 Flooded Strand
2 Steam Vents
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Spirebluff Canal
2 Seachrome Coast
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Dispel
3 Negate
1 Spell Pierce
2 Magma Spray
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Engineered Explosives
The night was four rounds, with a cut to top 8. In order, I played against Infect, Jund, Kiki-Chord, Affinity, and Burn before splitting the finals.
Infect and Affinity were pretty typical, flip a Delver and Bolt the stuff. I feel like I stole game 2 against Jund because he incorrectly fetched and cut himself short on red Mana. Kiki-Chord was interesting. I basically just kept up Queller/Counter Magic to play around Resto and Chord. Burn was an easy 2-0 between Helix and counters.
Thoughts on the deck, Spell Queller is fantastic and probably the reason I prefer this color combo over Grixis Delver. Clique was the only card I didn't love seeing, but he's never a bad card anyway. I'm still between this and Grixis Control for the IQ, but I'm leaning toward this list as it fits my playstyle a little more.
Just thought I'd share my experience and keep this thread alive.
Also had a mirror match that was actually quite fun,the player was on his game but I topdecked game 3 a boros charm for the damage I needed.
Thank you! Going to keep pushing with this list and see how it plays week to week.
Also, what is everyone's sideboard looking like? Still trying to fine tune mine, and still having difficulties against BGx post-board.