Has anyone been running leyline of sanctity in the board? Is it worth it? Aside from burn, what matches would you bring it in against? Ad Nauseam for sure, but is it worth it for GBx? If it's not in your opener, it's more or less worthless, but if it is, it can really help the early game.
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Modern: UWR Breach, UWB Esper control
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
T16 From SCG Columbus. This is surprisingly similar to the T8 list from an IQ posted a few pages back, but the IQ was also in Columbus so the data points are not as independent as you might think. But it's still evidence. Edit: Thought not the same person in the two events - likely a few Columbus locals are testing the deck.
i really like leyline... it's ok against gbx but shines in other matchups.. scapeshift, burn, ad nauseum, grishoalbrand.. it's also ok against grixis control and jund... if you have it in your board you might as well bring it in but there are stronger cards against them....
I think I'm going to experiment with a Gifts package maindeck that I can side out against decks that really love to stomp the yard. I want to have an "I win" combo, but dislike how vulnerable to disruption Kiki is. This list will start with the SCG list that did well recently with the package added and P&K relegated to the board:
These days, some wizards are finding they have a little too much deck left at the end of their $$$.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
I think I'm going to experiment with a Gifts package maindeck that I can side out against decks that really love to stomp the yard. I want to have an "I win" combo, but dislike how vulnerable to disruption Kiki is. This list will start with the SCG list that did well recently with the package added and P&K relegated to the board:
Does any know of any work down to determine the minimum amount of instant/sorcery should be run with 4 Snaps, 3 Snaps, etc. To clarify the number where we see enough graveyard targets to warrant the drawing probability of a Snap when there are 4 in the deck. I am sure the right answer is "the more the better" (I have always felt best with at least 25 targets). But maybe there is a slight diminishing return at a certain level. Maybe this is number can can inform the creature to spell ratio, such that it might allow the remain slots to possibly be creatures to help this deck in closing out the game. I know Collected Company got a whole mathematical breakdown, so I am looking for something like that, i guess. Even personal experience would be great.
Just brainstorming trying to figure out if there are other angles of approach that may provide some insight into this deck.
yesterday I was a bit bored and since you can play everything on xMage what ever you want I played UWR Control and man oh man that was fun. I took the list above cut most of all creatures added some wraths and planswalker.
Comming form a blue tron background its so much fun to play a deck with LB and Helix.
Since I started learning the deck ab bit any tipps? Are there any videos from a current meta which I can watch or even streams? I have been seeing no much people stream the deck.
What is the general opionion on a more burn variant cut the walker win through beats burn with a big Fireball finish? My goal beening here to play as few creatures as possible to make mb wraths better. Probbly not that competive, but I am searching for a draw go stlye of deck.
Thx for all tipps
cheers dF
I'd recommend adding more card draw and looking for inevitability if you want to go that route. Probably something like this:
What I really don't like about these more durdly control versions of UWR is how poorly they leverage what should be the best card in the deck: Snapcaster Mage. This is unquestionably the best Tiago deck in the format, and there's a reason for it - the normal lists can use the Ambush Viper body to great effect. With the high density of burn spells and Colonnade/Angel beats, just one or two chip shots from a Snapcaster on the ground can put the game within closing distance of Bolt-Snap-Bolt. If you tone down the aggressive elements of the deck like this, the body becomes far less relevant and looks something approaching 1U: give target spell flashback until end of turn, Fog target creature.
I love Gifts and the Rites Combo but I think in this list you need to run with 1 Bx Shockland so you can cast Rites if you draw into it.
Good idea. The third Steam Vents will be replaced by a single Watery Grave. I am debating about whether a Terastodon would be a suitable reanimation target. When he enters the battlefield, he destroys target Tron deck. The tokens are then efficiently mopped up by our spells. Of course, that would mean cutting Iona, which I don't really want to do, or a sideboard card, which I also don't really want to do. Crumble may be adequate for Tron.
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These days, some wizards are finding they have a little too much deck left at the end of their $$$.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
I like the list, that said.. i think this is UWR midrange not control
I think everyone needs to realize that there are different ways to play control. It doesn't have to be draw go. Modern is just not a friendly environment to draw go decks. Just because you have a small suite of creatures to help close the game and also help control the board does not mean its not control. I haven't played Geist (though I have the cards), but from what I understand is that yes it is more of a midrange game. You're number 1 priority is to swing with Geist as soon as you can. Sure it has controlling cards in the deck, but you want to be turning creatures sideways quickly and put on pressure. A few Angels that act as ambush blockers and help chip away at life, P&K to clog up a board and also provide additional Shocks, and Clique and Snaps for additional utility does not mean this is not a control deck. Look at Esper Stoneblade in Legacy. It runs 8-10 creatures. Grixis Control also runs 8-10 creatures. So to call a Modern UWR deck that runs 8-10 creatures midrange and not control makes absolutely no sense.
Ajani Vengeant feels really well positioned right now, good against aggro decks, and keeps lands tapped of tron. Has convinced me to drop the kiki combo plan.
T16 From SCG Columbus. This is surprisingly similar to the T8 list from an IQ posted a few pages back, but the IQ was also in Columbus so the data points are not as independent as you might think. But it's still evidence. Edit: Thought not the same person in the two events - likely a few Columbus locals are testing the deck.
Ajani Vengeant feels really well positioned right now, good against aggro decks, and keeps lands tapped of tron. Has convinced me to drop the kiki combo plan.
Let me tell you about Ajani Vengeant. I remember first playing with him when he was the prerelease card at the Shards of Alara prerelease at Adventure Cards & Comics in Buffalo, NY, which is closed now. That was almost eight years ago, damn. They don't make good prerelease cards any more: you used to be able to get Ajanis and Valakuts and Wurmcoil Engines. Anyway, Adventure used to have this registered sex offender who played there. He was a registered sex offender from statutory rape from a teenage boy who I don't think played Magic. This guy would bring candy for everyone at the prerelease, hard candy in little plastic baggies. He said he used to be a part of the rave scene and people would bring candy there to chew on to stop your teeth grinding after taking MDMA, but I always thought it was kind of creepy and never ate any of it. Anyway, back to Ajani. I think the -2 is well-positioned against aggro, and the +1 can hold off Tron for 1-2 turns, but UWR still probably isn't all that favored for game 1.
These days, some wizards are finding they have a little too much deck left at the end of their $$$.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
I love Gifts and the Rites Combo but I think in this list you need to run with 1 Bx Shockland so you can cast Rites if you draw into it.
Good idea. The third Steam Vents will be replaced by a single Watery Grave. I am debating about whether a Terastodon would be a suitable reanimation target. When he enters the battlefield, he destroys target Tron deck. The tokens are then efficiently mopped up by our spells. Of course, that would mean cutting Iona, which I don't really want to do, or a sideboard card, which I also don't really want to do. Crumble may be adequate for Tron.
I know UW Gifts Tron occasionally ran with Terrastodon as a Tron hate reanimation target out of the board, but I agree that I think Crumble is a better place to be for that.
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Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
3 Restoration Angel
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Vendilion Clique
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Ajani Vengeant
Lands (25)
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
3 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Polluted Delta
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Wandering Fumarole
1 Electrolyze
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
4 Mana Leak
4 Path to Exile
2 Remand
1 Spell Pierce
3 Spell Snare
1 Think Twice
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Stony Silence
2 Threads of Disloyalty
1 Celestial Purge
1 Disdainful Stroke
2 Dispel
1 Negate
1 Valorous Stance
1 Wear
3 Crumble to Dust
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Keranos, God of Storms
Lands (25)
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Wandering Fumarole
3 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Steam Vents
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
1 Electrolyze
4 Remand
4 Overwhelming Denial
4 Cryptic Command
2 Sumpreme Verdict
3 Think Twice
2 Dispel
2 Condemn
1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Stony Silence
1 Threads of Disloyalty
1 Counterflux
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Shatterstorm
3 Crumble to Dust
3 Restoration Angel
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Electrolyze
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Mana Leak
1 Unburial Rites
4 Path to Exile
2 Remand
3 Gifts Ungiven
3 Spell Snare
1 Think Twice
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
3 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Polluted Delta
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Wandering Fumarole
2 Stony Silence
2 Threads of Disloyalty
1 Celestial Purge
1 Disdainful Stroke
2 Dispel
1 Negate
1 Wear
3 Crumble to Dust
I'll let you know how it does tonight.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
I love Gifts and the Rites Combo but I think in this list you need to run with 1 Bx Shockland so you can cast Rites if you draw into it.
Just brainstorming trying to figure out if there are other angles of approach that may provide some insight into this deck.
I'd recommend adding more card draw and looking for inevitability if you want to go that route. Probably something like this:
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
2 Spell Snare
1 Lightning Helix
2 Spreading Seas
1 Logic Knot
1 Anticipate
2 Mana Leak
2 Think Twice
2 Electrolyze
2 Cryptic Command
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Sphinx's Revelation
Creatures (9)
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Wall of Omens
2 Restoration Angel
1 Gideon Jura
Lands (25)
4 Celestial Colonnade
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Desolate Lighthouse
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
3 Crumble to Dust
2 Stony Silence
2 Dispel
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Negate
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Flashfreeze
1 Keranos, God of Storms
What I really don't like about these more durdly control versions of UWR is how poorly they leverage what should be the best card in the deck: Snapcaster Mage. This is unquestionably the best Tiago deck in the format, and there's a reason for it - the normal lists can use the Ambush Viper body to great effect. With the high density of burn spells and Colonnade/Angel beats, just one or two chip shots from a Snapcaster on the ground can put the game within closing distance of Bolt-Snap-Bolt. If you tone down the aggressive elements of the deck like this, the body becomes far less relevant and looks something approaching 1U: give target spell flashback until end of turn, Fog target creature.
Good idea. The third Steam Vents will be replaced by a single Watery Grave. I am debating about whether a Terastodon would be a suitable reanimation target. When he enters the battlefield, he destroys target Tron deck. The tokens are then efficiently mopped up by our spells. Of course, that would mean cutting Iona, which I don't really want to do, or a sideboard card, which I also don't really want to do. Crumble may be adequate for Tron.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
Creatures (10)
3 Restoration Angel
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Vendilion Clique
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Ajani Vengeant
I like the list, that said.. i think this is UWR midrange not control
GWBoglesGW///URDelverUR WVial-knightsW
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
Steals problematic creatures like Ooze, Goyf, Bob i guess?
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
I think everyone needs to realize that there are different ways to play control. It doesn't have to be draw go. Modern is just not a friendly environment to draw go decks. Just because you have a small suite of creatures to help close the game and also help control the board does not mean its not control. I haven't played Geist (though I have the cards), but from what I understand is that yes it is more of a midrange game. You're number 1 priority is to swing with Geist as soon as you can. Sure it has controlling cards in the deck, but you want to be turning creatures sideways quickly and put on pressure. A few Angels that act as ambush blockers and help chip away at life, P&K to clog up a board and also provide additional Shocks, and Clique and Snaps for additional utility does not mean this is not a control deck. Look at Esper Stoneblade in Legacy. It runs 8-10 creatures. Grixis Control also runs 8-10 creatures. So to call a Modern UWR deck that runs 8-10 creatures midrange and not control makes absolutely no sense.
That wasn't me.
Let me tell you about Ajani Vengeant. I remember first playing with him when he was the prerelease card at the Shards of Alara prerelease at Adventure Cards & Comics in Buffalo, NY, which is closed now. That was almost eight years ago, damn. They don't make good prerelease cards any more: you used to be able to get Ajanis and Valakuts and Wurmcoil Engines. Anyway, Adventure used to have this registered sex offender who played there. He was a registered sex offender from statutory rape from a teenage boy who I don't think played Magic. This guy would bring candy for everyone at the prerelease, hard candy in little plastic baggies. He said he used to be a part of the rave scene and people would bring candy there to chew on to stop your teeth grinding after taking MDMA, but I always thought it was kind of creepy and never ate any of it. Anyway, back to Ajani. I think the -2 is well-positioned against aggro, and the +1 can hold off Tron for 1-2 turns, but UWR still probably isn't all that favored for game 1.
Infracted for Inappropriate content ~Lantern
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
Interesting article. It appears that there are a lot of other like-minded Jeskai mages out there!
I know UW Gifts Tron occasionally ran with Terrastodon as a Tron hate reanimation target out of the board, but I agree that I think Crumble is a better place to be for that.