4 KCI is an absolute must have. It is very important to minimize the fizzle rate and with only 2 KCI it is very high. If you attempt to combo on turn 4 and have 3 eggs you will have seen 13 cards. You're only 38.9% to see KCI. KCI isn't necessary to combo since you can still cast Open the Vaults on a great draw or Faith's Reward on one that's not so great, but sooner or later you need the mana in order to have sufficient card draw, the sac outlet adds more card draw as well. In two iterations in this scenario you'll probably get 4 more cards on the second iteration (+1 egg, sacrificing the rest). So you're 38.9% to find your KCI on the first iteration, then 16.5% on your second. Combined this is only a 48.98% chance to find a KCI. If you don't have it by the second iteration your fizzle rate is considerably higher
At 4 KCI this scenario plays out as 63.4% on the first iteration and 30.8% on the second iteration for 74.68%. The failure rate is more than cut in half.
For now I still advocate my manabase. The fetchlands are dual purpose serving as additional white sources as well as extra Ghost Quarters. GQ is very important to the deck not just to thin, and provide extra mana but to shuffle. There's a considerable difference between running 4 of this effect and running 6 of it. Pre Sunrise bannings actually ran 8 of the effect (4 GQ 4 fetch) and would have run more if there wasn't an efficiency tradeoff, since each fetch is 1 less card you can thin. Operating in a world where you can make a million mana off of citadel sacrifices or turn on Mox Opal on turn 1 is nice as an ideal but in practice it's less than optimal.
Running 4 Mox Opals would push this further in the Citadel direction but I remain unconvinced (for now) that you want 4 Opals because they're of very limited value mid combo. You get a 1 shot 2C out of one mid combo and that is it. That said, I do believe the correct number is more than one (which is unfortunate for me as I only own one).
On the Terrarion debate, I don't like it. Prophetic Prism fills that slot much better. It costs 1 more mana but it's more useful early. What matters in this deck is the first three iterations of the combo. After every iteration beyond the first it gets easier and easier to generate mana and you draw more and more cards. If you're going to fizzle it almost always happens within those first three. As such a card needs to be evaluated by what it does during those initial iterations. A card like Terrarion doesn't draw cards before you combo, and it doesn't draw cards mid combo until you have KCI (or use a Reshape on it). The competing cards like Prophetic Prism draw you a card to start which is a big deal. A T2 Prism helps find your pieces while setting up. Terrarion doesn't.
Krark-Clan Ironworks is only a necessity for an increase in the amount of mana so that Open the Vaults and other spells are easier to cast as well as getting more out of Mox Opal and Darksteel Citadel. There is nothing more that it does than sac Ichor Wellspring. It is in the deck to get the most out of blind draws from Chromatic Star and Ichor Wellspring. Plus, it makes it easier to increase the amount of eggs that can be played into the battlefield. But I never have any problem with that when I have access to Mox Opal, even if they are a few. They are great accelerations for you deck to get into position and also easier to cast Silence on my opponent's turn.
Can I just ask about the mathematics in your post? They seem rather inconsistent and unneeded. They don't help your point with having a complete set of Krark-Clan Ironworks, besides your idea of "fizzling." Which, I never had the issue of that since I had better chances of drawing into eggs or into a second sunrise-eqsue spell. Which, I would also rather draw into a Reshape or some sort of protection spell.
You might have better chances of playing Krark-Clan. And I agree that having them are completely needed, but they are extremely excessive and lower the rate of drawing into an egg, which is the best possible play that I can normally get out of the deck.
I have been able to pull off more protection for the spell and haven't drawn into too many lands one after the other. The problem was that I never drew into other cards that would net me a card. I haven't had an issue with getting the combo set up, but it was pulling it off. The deck lost so much consistency when Second Sunrise was banned.
4 Mox Opal is incredibly helpful, but I never used anymore than 3 in a single game at my LGS. I really just kept it at four for the same reason you keep Krark-Clan Ironworks at 4, easier manner to draw into it during a game. Going to 3 would probably make a better play on my part.
The landbase is going to be a complete test on my part and I am willing to keep a record of it, though. Which, it really is going to be for the extra white source so that my landbase can support Open the Vaults and I can find it easier for when I need to forcibly cast Silence.
I am not going to go into Terrarion, though, because I have completely disassociated myself with it and I never looked back on it. It was just a lackluster Ichor Wellspring that only worked with Krark-Clan Ironworks and did nothing on its own. I would be willing to play if it didn't come into play tapped, but you can wish for everything.
Krark-Clan Ironworks is only a necessity for an increase in the amount of mana so that Open the Vaults and other spells are easier to cast as well as getting more out of Mox Opal and Darksteel Citadel. There is nothing more that it does than sac Ichor Wellspring. It is in the deck to get the most out of blind draws from Chromatic Star and Ichor Wellspring. Plus, it makes it easier to increase the amount of eggs that can be played into the battlefield. But I never have any problem with that when I have access to Mox Opal, even if they are a few. They are great accelerations for you deck to get into position and also easier to cast Silence on my opponent's turn.
Back when Second Sunrise was a thing you only needed to generate 3.5 mana/iteration to break even. Since you could GQ/Fetch with a Lotus Bloom (the only mana engine in the good versions of those lists) you would pretty much always generate atleast 4 mana, leaving you with the ability to expand on the number of eggs played. Using my list in the OP you need an average of 4.75 mana/iteration, using the lists without Noxious Revival like Sodeks you need 4.86 mana/iteration on average. Of course more is better because average means you'll sometimes go above that. 4.86 is above what you can generate from Lotus Bloom+GQ, for a time you can make up the shortfall with Mox Opal, Mind Stone, lands in play, and so on however it's just as crucial to get your mana per iteration up to a sustainable level as it is to draw into sunrise effects. KCI is a very important part of that (though not the only, reshape into Lotus Bloom is also quite valuable). Add 1 to those mana/iteration numbers if holding up Swan Song or Silence.
Can I just ask about the mathematics in your post?
Sorry, it just happens to be how I think about a lot of decks, particularly a deck like eggs which is based almost entirely on probability once you're able to recognize the proper sequencing. I realize throwing numbers around is more or less meaningless in posts since they get glossed over and often lack a frame of reference, but it's how I think about deck construction so sometimes they find their way in even though I generally try to express things in other terms.
In a deck like this it's more important because testing is very subjective and I'm the type of person that wants to quantify my odds of winning on turns 3, 4, and 5 through fluctuations of any given card in order to have an optimal list. A few (or even 100) test hands to see how something plays does not give that information within an acceptable margin of error.
You might have better chances of playing Krark-Clan. And I agree that having them are completely needed, but they are extremely excessive and lower the rate of drawing into an egg, which is the best possible play that I can normally get out of the deck.
In your list with 2 KCI you have 17 eggs and another 4 draw spells. In my list with 4 KCI there are 16 eggs with 6 additional draw spells. There's slightly more dig power there with 4 KCI than in your list which has additional room. This is because you're not actually cutting KCI for eggs, you're cutting KCI for MB protection in the form of Silence.
The deck lost so much consistency when Second Sunrise was banned.
It lost a little consistency but not much. Pre ban the deck had a turn 4 on the play (the benchmark I use as it's the turn limit for the format, at 1 fewer card) of 8%, my list has a 10% fizzle rate (this means it will properly combo barring interaction from your opponent 90% of the time vs 92% of the time). It will lose a little more consistency by switching out Revival (a move I happen to agree with, I'll update the OP soon... this move also comes with changing the Thought Scour to Serum Visions as there's no longer a real benefit to milling yourself), but it becomes less vulnerable to DRS (something I wasn't overly concerned with at the time) in the process so the tradeoff is a net gain.
Hey guys, can someone tell me how this deck is doing in the current meta? Is it as competitive as the original eggs?
It's not as competitive as the original but that's not really saying much since the original was hands down the best deck in the format. No deck today is as good as preban Eggs was.
If you play it well you can mostly guarantee an FNM win outside of some specific hostile metas. Your biggest issue in larger tournaments is one of mental stamina. The deck has great matchups against other popular decks like Jund, Pod, and so on so you have no problems there, but when you're making 1700 decisions per game, it leads to mental fatigue which gets to be a real issue after 12 hours of playing.
The powerlvl is not as good as eggs before Sunrise ban, but it has still pretty consistent t4 wins. Now we just have higher cmc average and more dead cards to draw during combo, so we will fizzle more often, and playing around hate (countermagic and sometimes bears like Thalia or Arbiter) is harder.
Eggs can easily win smaller tournaments in uprepared meta, but becouse of affinity and Tron too many people play Stony Silence side, so in my opinion this is not the best choice now.
The powerlvl is not as good as eggs before Sunrise ban, but it has still pretty consistent t4 wins. Now we just have higher cmc average and more dead cards to draw during combo, so we will fizzle more often, and playing around hate (countermagic and sometimes bears like Thalia or Arbiter) is harder.
Eggs can easily win smaller tournaments in uprepared meta, but becouse of affinity and Tron too many people play Stony Silence side, so in my opinion this is not the best choice now.
Stony doesn't seem like a big problem to me with Swan Song.
Ive found that the biggest hit the deck took isn't in combo ability, but in how many cards you can sideboard before risking consistency. The old deck could sideboard 4 pretty comfortably, but I haven't found a build yet that can handle more than 2 now. This is because the deck needs more mana generation.
Thalia is a big issue and come BNG release Spirit of the Labyrinth is going to be up there as well.
Stony doesn't seem like a big problem to me with Swan Song.
Ive found that the biggest hit the deck took isn't in combo ability, but in how many cards you can sideboard before risking consistency. The old deck could sideboard 4 pretty comfortably, but I haven't found a build yet that can handle more than 2 now. This is because the deck needs more mana generation.
Thalia is a big issue and come BNG release Spirit of the Labyrinth is going to be up there as well.
I don't think Thalia and Spirit of the Labyrinth are big problems they only see play/will see play in 1-2 decks that aren't all that common.
Hi! Looking on the web I found an interesting list:
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Conjurer's Bauble
4 Edge of Autumn
4 Elsewhere Flask
4 Faith's Reward
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Grapeshot
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Manamorphose
4 Street Wraith
4 Reshape
1 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
4 Ghost Quarter
8 Island
1 Plains
What do you think about it?
It looks like Second Sunrse deck before Faith's Reward print. I like it but in world with Scavenging Ooze it is hard to win with this version - opponent will exile Blomms and we fizzle.
I also don't like idea of playing manamorphose and Street Wraith - it thins deck, I know, but firstly with opening hand with them it is harder to make decicion If I keep it or not. In This slot Serum Visions and some Sleight of Hand should be just better - it costs mana, but before T4 we usually have chance to use them, and looking through more than 1 card digging for Reward is priceless.
In this version I would also play 1-2 Wargate, becouse Reshape effects are good for us.
About Stony Silence in sideboards - of course if opponent have only Stony Silence it is easy to overcome, but if u play against UWR with 3 Stony Silence post side, or Junk with 7 discards. Liliana, and 3 SS it starting to be hard to resolve response to it. Stony Silence is the worst card for us, against Relic, SPellbomb, or even RiP we can sac eggs and dig for response, use Darksteel Citadel and Mox Opal which is importnt for us. After G1 u have to side in 6 cards to have a chance, and as we know siding too many cards is a way to fizzle more often.
Hi! Looking on the web I found an interesting list:
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Conjurer's Bauble
4 Edge of Autumn
4 Elsewhere Flask
4 Faith's Reward
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Grapeshot
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Manamorphose
4 Street Wraith
4 Reshape
1 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
4 Ghost Quarter
8 Island
1 Plains
What do you think about it?
I've bought and built this list and its cool but seems to have some awkward hands. I ended up replacing the forest and an island for 2 mistys, dropped the pool for a fountain, dropped the 4 edge of autumns for 4 sleight of hands and the 4 manamorphose for 4 serum visions. With those changes it feels much better and works as intended. I had also tested peer through the depths since this list relies on hitting 1 of the 4 faith's reward and the 4 reshapes so much but passing over eggs kind of hurt. I think I could probably play 1 or 2 over 1 or 2 street wraiths. The probes and wraiths make it a 52 card deck.
I like this version and want to play a non open the vault/kci version. Anyone working on something like that?
Any comments on my list? on MTGO it seems to never fizzle on turn 5 and i was able to go off on turn 3 once and turn 4 has been about an 80% win rate, 20% fizzle. But these numbers are all arbitrary since its just how it "feels". I like the list quite a lot.
Not a fan of Elsewhere Flask at all these days. The fact that you don't run KCI is a huge issue, and the Faith's Reward/Noxious Revival setup is extremely shaky at best (one of these days I'll update the primer but with Scavenging Ooze being a thing Noxious Revival is not playable). Edge of Autumn isn't very good, even in old eggs it was fringe playable at best, and less so now, and you're running too many card draw spells in place of eggs that you can use over and over. Not running the plains and only 15 lands is also kind of sketchy. I can understand not running the Hallowed Fountain with only 1 fetch however.
I'm having a blast playing this list. It feels like it fizzles only once in every 9 or 10 games and can go off on turn 4 a large % of the time (8/10 games or so).
Preboard is a nightmare vs control/tempo unless they do something stupid like tap out. Preboard vs aggro is fine, usually depends on who is on the play. If they force me to go off on turn 3, I will fizzle quite a lot (I've gone off on turn 3 maybe 3 times after playing 5-10 games on mtgo every day for the past week and a half+). If they let me get to turn 4, I usually win.
Postboard vs control is a cake walk. I just sculpt a perfect hand and go off with 2-3+ counters. Also, cryptic sucks vs swan song and mana leak is bad when we have 5+ lands and a bloom or two in play. Postboard vs aggro depends on if they find hate, who goes first and if I find echoing truth.
I generally just side out 1-6 serum visions and edge of autumn for counter magic, truth, etc.
Pact has been sweet thus far, but I may switch it for something else as 4 swan song is usually enough and in matches where I want counter magic and echoing truth, space gets tight.
I'm having a blast playing this list. It feels like it fizzles only once in every 9 or 10 games and can go off on turn 4 a large % of the time (8/10 games or so).
Preboard is a nightmare vs control/tempo unless they do something stupid like tap out. Preboard vs aggro is fine, usually depends on who is on the play. If they force me to go off on turn 3, I will fizzle quite a lot (I've gone off on turn 3 maybe 3 times after playing 5-10 games on mtgo every day for the past week and a half+). If they let me get to turn 4, I usually win.
Postboard vs control is a cake walk. I just sculpt a perfect hand and go off with 2-3+ counters. Also, cryptic sucks vs swan song and mana leak is bad when we have 5+ lands and a bloom or two in play. Postboard vs aggro depends on if they find hate, who goes first and if I find echoing truth.
I generally just side out 1-6 serum visions and edge of autumn for counter magic, truth, etc.
Pact has been sweet thus far, but I may switch it for something else as 4 swan song is usually enough and in matches where I want counter magic and echoing truth, space gets tight. I also may want a Torpor Orb since Twin seems to be running a muck.
I also kind of want to try out Twincast maybe as a replacement for Edge of Autumn? Seems like it would be good copying Faith's Reward or Reshape. But not having access to Edge of Autumn means I fizzle if I don't go off with at least 1 bloom and 2 GQ (it came up once where I won with 1 bloom, 1 gq and 1 autumn. At the time, I was testing a 1 of silence over the 2nd autumn). But twincast allows you to play around both one time graveyard removal and countermagic easily. I will probably test it in replace of edge.
Seeing this thread has rekindled my passion to once again play this awfully awesome combo deck. I've been working on it a little in my head as I've tried to figure out what to play for combo in modern. The lists look great above but what about Mystical Teachings for consistency? The current permutation of the eggs deck involves lots of mana generation so why not play the card? It acts as if you drew 2 Faith's Reward and in a pinch could tutor for your Silences n such. Mystical Teachings was even run in extended versions of the deck like this one here: http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/events.aspx?x=mtgevent/worlds06/dtegg
Also, what about Pentad Prism? Sure it's terrible mid combo but so isn't KCI 2-4 or Mox Opal. The synergy with reshape is nice and the more initial mana on turn 4 it provides seems ok too.
I tested eggs a lot and didn't make room for it. 1 mana eggs are better, as well as Ichor Wellspring becouse it draws 2 cards, not 1. Mana fixing ability is not as useful as u think, many other cards are making it already.
Mystical Teachings is nice idea, maybe I'll try it as a 1-off.
Noxious Revival is just a rubbish, there are many better cards than it.
After some more playtesting Pentad Prism just doesnt do what i was hoping.
Honestly, I like Noxious Revival as a 1 of. It obviously requires you to have faiths reward in the yard for maximum effectiveness but throwing Serum Visions or Sleight of Hand on top lets you dig a little deeper. Throwing Ichor Wellspring on top with KCI on board is always nice too. I havent tried Darksteel Citadel yet but they seem solid. Mystical Teaching has been awesome for me, i run 2 main deck and its nice knowing you've effectively drawn 2 faith's rewards once you draw one. The mana requirement is steep but i usually have excess mana as is.
On another note is 4 KCI really what this decks wants to run? I've been at 2 copies maindeck (gold fishing) and drawing another after the first is just plain awful. Plus i feel like with any decent hand i dont need KCI right away as im able to generate mana fairly well.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Krark-Clan Ironworks is only a necessity for an increase in the amount of mana so that Open the Vaults and other spells are easier to cast as well as getting more out of Mox Opal and Darksteel Citadel. There is nothing more that it does than sac Ichor Wellspring. It is in the deck to get the most out of blind draws from Chromatic Star and Ichor Wellspring. Plus, it makes it easier to increase the amount of eggs that can be played into the battlefield. But I never have any problem with that when I have access to Mox Opal, even if they are a few. They are great accelerations for you deck to get into position and also easier to cast Silence on my opponent's turn.
Can I just ask about the mathematics in your post? They seem rather inconsistent and unneeded. They don't help your point with having a complete set of Krark-Clan Ironworks, besides your idea of "fizzling." Which, I never had the issue of that since I had better chances of drawing into eggs or into a second sunrise-eqsue spell. Which, I would also rather draw into a Reshape or some sort of protection spell.
You might have better chances of playing Krark-Clan. And I agree that having them are completely needed, but they are extremely excessive and lower the rate of drawing into an egg, which is the best possible play that I can normally get out of the deck.
I have been able to pull off more protection for the spell and haven't drawn into too many lands one after the other. The problem was that I never drew into other cards that would net me a card. I haven't had an issue with getting the combo set up, but it was pulling it off. The deck lost so much consistency when Second Sunrise was banned.
4 Mox Opal is incredibly helpful, but I never used anymore than 3 in a single game at my LGS. I really just kept it at four for the same reason you keep Krark-Clan Ironworks at 4, easier manner to draw into it during a game. Going to 3 would probably make a better play on my part.
The landbase is going to be a complete test on my part and I am willing to keep a record of it, though. Which, it really is going to be for the extra white source so that my landbase can support Open the Vaults and I can find it easier for when I need to forcibly cast Silence.
I am not going to go into Terrarion, though, because I have completely disassociated myself with it and I never looked back on it. It was just a lackluster Ichor Wellspring that only worked with Krark-Clan Ironworks and did nothing on its own. I would be willing to play if it didn't come into play tapped, but you can wish for everything.
Back when Second Sunrise was a thing you only needed to generate 3.5 mana/iteration to break even. Since you could GQ/Fetch with a Lotus Bloom (the only mana engine in the good versions of those lists) you would pretty much always generate atleast 4 mana, leaving you with the ability to expand on the number of eggs played. Using my list in the OP you need an average of 4.75 mana/iteration, using the lists without Noxious Revival like Sodeks you need 4.86 mana/iteration on average. Of course more is better because average means you'll sometimes go above that. 4.86 is above what you can generate from Lotus Bloom+GQ, for a time you can make up the shortfall with Mox Opal, Mind Stone, lands in play, and so on however it's just as crucial to get your mana per iteration up to a sustainable level as it is to draw into sunrise effects. KCI is a very important part of that (though not the only, reshape into Lotus Bloom is also quite valuable). Add 1 to those mana/iteration numbers if holding up Swan Song or Silence.
Sorry, it just happens to be how I think about a lot of decks, particularly a deck like eggs which is based almost entirely on probability once you're able to recognize the proper sequencing. I realize throwing numbers around is more or less meaningless in posts since they get glossed over and often lack a frame of reference, but it's how I think about deck construction so sometimes they find their way in even though I generally try to express things in other terms.
In a deck like this it's more important because testing is very subjective and I'm the type of person that wants to quantify my odds of winning on turns 3, 4, and 5 through fluctuations of any given card in order to have an optimal list. A few (or even 100) test hands to see how something plays does not give that information within an acceptable margin of error.
In your list with 2 KCI you have 17 eggs and another 4 draw spells. In my list with 4 KCI there are 16 eggs with 6 additional draw spells. There's slightly more dig power there with 4 KCI than in your list which has additional room. This is because you're not actually cutting KCI for eggs, you're cutting KCI for MB protection in the form of Silence.
It lost a little consistency but not much. Pre ban the deck had a turn 4 on the play (the benchmark I use as it's the turn limit for the format, at 1 fewer card) of 8%, my list has a 10% fizzle rate (this means it will properly combo barring interaction from your opponent 90% of the time vs 92% of the time). It will lose a little more consistency by switching out Revival (a move I happen to agree with, I'll update the OP soon... this move also comes with changing the Thought Scour to Serum Visions as there's no longer a real benefit to milling yourself), but it becomes less vulnerable to DRS (something I wasn't overly concerned with at the time) in the process so the tradeoff is a net gain.
It's not as competitive as the original but that's not really saying much since the original was hands down the best deck in the format. No deck today is as good as preban Eggs was.
If you play it well you can mostly guarantee an FNM win outside of some specific hostile metas. Your biggest issue in larger tournaments is one of mental stamina. The deck has great matchups against other popular decks like Jund, Pod, and so on so you have no problems there, but when you're making 1700 decisions per game, it leads to mental fatigue which gets to be a real issue after 12 hours of playing.
Eggs can easily win smaller tournaments in uprepared meta, but becouse of affinity and Tron too many people play Stony Silence side, so in my opinion this is not the best choice now.
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Conjurer's Bauble
4 Edge of Autumn
4 Elsewhere Flask
4 Faith's Reward
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Grapeshot
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Manamorphose
4 Street Wraith
4 Reshape
1 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
4 Ghost Quarter
8 Island
1 Plains
What do you think about it?
Stony doesn't seem like a big problem to me with Swan Song.
Ive found that the biggest hit the deck took isn't in combo ability, but in how many cards you can sideboard before risking consistency. The old deck could sideboard 4 pretty comfortably, but I haven't found a build yet that can handle more than 2 now. This is because the deck needs more mana generation.
Thalia is a big issue and come BNG release Spirit of the Labyrinth is going to be up there as well.
I don't think Thalia and Spirit of the Labyrinth are big problems they only see play/will see play in 1-2 decks that aren't all that common.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
It looks like Second Sunrse deck before Faith's Reward print. I like it but in world with Scavenging Ooze it is hard to win with this version - opponent will exile Blomms and we fizzle.
I also don't like idea of playing manamorphose and Street Wraith - it thins deck, I know, but firstly with opening hand with them it is harder to make decicion If I keep it or not. In This slot Serum Visions and some Sleight of Hand should be just better - it costs mana, but before T4 we usually have chance to use them, and looking through more than 1 card digging for Reward is priceless.
In this version I would also play 1-2 Wargate, becouse Reshape effects are good for us.
About Stony Silence in sideboards - of course if opponent have only Stony Silence it is easy to overcome, but if u play against UWR with 3 Stony Silence post side, or Junk with 7 discards. Liliana, and 3 SS it starting to be hard to resolve response to it. Stony Silence is the worst card for us, against Relic, SPellbomb, or even RiP we can sac eggs and dig for response, use Darksteel Citadel and Mox Opal which is importnt for us. After G1 u have to side in 6 cards to have a chance, and as we know siding too many cards is a way to fizzle more often.
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Azusa, Lost but Seeking
Narset, Enlightened Master
Modern
Twin
I've bought and built this list and its cool but seems to have some awkward hands. I ended up replacing the forest and an island for 2 mistys, dropped the pool for a fountain, dropped the 4 edge of autumns for 4 sleight of hands and the 4 manamorphose for 4 serum visions. With those changes it feels much better and works as intended. I had also tested peer through the depths since this list relies on hitting 1 of the 4 faith's reward and the 4 reshapes so much but passing over eggs kind of hurt. I think I could probably play 1 or 2 over 1 or 2 street wraiths. The probes and wraiths make it a 52 card deck.
I like this version and want to play a non open the vault/kci version. Anyone working on something like that?
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Conjurer's Bauble
4 Elsewhere Flask
4 Lotus Bloom
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Reshape
4 Edge of Autumn
Instant (8)
4 Faith's Reward
4 Noxious Revival
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Ghost Quarter
10 Island
For the sideboard I was thinking something like:
3 Swan Song
1 Pact of Negation
3 Echoing Truth
1 Rapid Hybridization
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Laboratory Maniac
Thoughts?
Not a fan of Elsewhere Flask at all these days. The fact that you don't run KCI is a huge issue, and the Faith's Reward/Noxious Revival setup is extremely shaky at best (one of these days I'll update the primer but with Scavenging Ooze being a thing Noxious Revival is not playable). Edge of Autumn isn't very good, even in old eggs it was fringe playable at best, and less so now, and you're running too many card draw spells in place of eggs that you can use over and over. Not running the plains and only 15 lands is also kind of sketchy. I can understand not running the Hallowed Fountain with only 1 fetch however.
The sideboard is more a question of your meta.
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Conjurer's Bauble
4 Elsewhere Flask
4 Lotus Bloom
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Reshape
2 Edge of Autumn
Instant (8)
4 Faith's Reward
4 Noxious Revival
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
9 Island
1 Plains
Sideboard:
4 Swan Song
1 Pact of Negation
4 Echoing Truth
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Laboratory Maniac
I'm having a blast playing this list. It feels like it fizzles only once in every 9 or 10 games and can go off on turn 4 a large % of the time (8/10 games or so).
Preboard is a nightmare vs control/tempo unless they do something stupid like tap out. Preboard vs aggro is fine, usually depends on who is on the play. If they force me to go off on turn 3, I will fizzle quite a lot (I've gone off on turn 3 maybe 3 times after playing 5-10 games on mtgo every day for the past week and a half+). If they let me get to turn 4, I usually win.
Postboard vs control is a cake walk. I just sculpt a perfect hand and go off with 2-3+ counters. Also, cryptic sucks vs swan song and mana leak is bad when we have 5+ lands and a bloom or two in play. Postboard vs aggro depends on if they find hate, who goes first and if I find echoing truth.
I generally just side out 1-6 serum visions and edge of autumn for counter magic, truth, etc.
Pact has been sweet thus far, but I may switch it for something else as 4 swan song is usually enough and in matches where I want counter magic and echoing truth, space gets tight.
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Conjurer's Bauble
4 Elsewhere Flask
4 Lotus Bloom
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Reshape
2 Edge of Autumn
Instant (8)
4 Faith's Reward
4 Noxious Revival
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
9 Island
1 Plains
Sideboard:
4 Swan Song
1 Pact of Negation
4 Echoing Truth
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Laboratory Maniac
I'm having a blast playing this list. It feels like it fizzles only once in every 9 or 10 games and can go off on turn 4 a large % of the time (8/10 games or so).
Preboard is a nightmare vs control/tempo unless they do something stupid like tap out. Preboard vs aggro is fine, usually depends on who is on the play. If they force me to go off on turn 3, I will fizzle quite a lot (I've gone off on turn 3 maybe 3 times after playing 5-10 games on mtgo every day for the past week and a half+). If they let me get to turn 4, I usually win.
Postboard vs control is a cake walk. I just sculpt a perfect hand and go off with 2-3+ counters. Also, cryptic sucks vs swan song and mana leak is bad when we have 5+ lands and a bloom or two in play. Postboard vs aggro depends on if they find hate, who goes first and if I find echoing truth.
I generally just side out 1-6 serum visions and edge of autumn for counter magic, truth, etc.
Pact has been sweet thus far, but I may switch it for something else as 4 swan song is usually enough and in matches where I want counter magic and echoing truth, space gets tight. I also may want a Torpor Orb since Twin seems to be running a muck.
I also kind of want to try out Twincast maybe as a replacement for Edge of Autumn? Seems like it would be good copying Faith's Reward or Reshape. But not having access to Edge of Autumn means I fizzle if I don't go off with at least 1 bloom and 2 GQ (it came up once where I won with 1 bloom, 1 gq and 1 autumn. At the time, I was testing a 1 of silence over the 2nd autumn). But twincast allows you to play around both one time graveyard removal and countermagic easily. I will probably test it in replace of edge.
I have another Modern tournament today.
Also, what about Pentad Prism? Sure it's terrible mid combo but so isn't KCI 2-4 or Mox Opal. The synergy with reshape is nice and the more initial mana on turn 4 it provides seems ok too.
Mystical Teachings is nice idea, maybe I'll try it as a 1-off.
Noxious Revival is just a rubbish, there are many better cards than it.
Honestly, I like Noxious Revival as a 1 of. It obviously requires you to have faiths reward in the yard for maximum effectiveness but throwing Serum Visions or Sleight of Hand on top lets you dig a little deeper. Throwing Ichor Wellspring on top with KCI on board is always nice too. I havent tried Darksteel Citadel yet but they seem solid. Mystical Teaching has been awesome for me, i run 2 main deck and its nice knowing you've effectively drawn 2 faith's rewards once you draw one. The mana requirement is steep but i usually have excess mana as is.
On another note is 4 KCI really what this decks wants to run? I've been at 2 copies maindeck (gold fishing) and drawing another after the first is just plain awful. Plus i feel like with any decent hand i dont need KCI right away as im able to generate mana fairly well.