MTG Salvation

Well, someone has to start this trainwreck of a deck's primer. I'll do it, I guess.

Gravekin refers to the ridiculous elemental deck that basically got its latest, BUILD ME NOW card from M20. Long story short, we're taking the upgraded Ball lightning from MH1, Lightning Skelemental (I still cannot believe they missed a chance for "Ball Blightning"), adding it to it's predecessor, and bringing these back from the grave repeatedly with the newly "modern"-ized MH1 enabler, Unearth.

Thunderkin Awakener joins the line-up as a ridiculously overpowered and self-repeating, hasty unearther. And just in case you're worried this isn't enough redundancy, MH1 also provided us with Vesperlark, which brings back dead thunderkin and... can be brought back with thunderkin - DOES NOBODY ELSE SEE HOW STUPID THIS DECK IS?! IT BUILT ITSELF!

Also, I forgot to mention this deck can run Vampiric Tutor, except that instead of being an instant and costing you 2 life, it's a 1/1 creature: Flamekin Harbinger. And.... do I need to say it again? Flamekin can be brought back with both Vesperlark and Thunderkin.

We need more redundancy, don't we? Of course we do. Enter Flickerwisp. Let's see, tutorable with Flamekin. Blinks Flamekin for an additional tutor, or a land that could let u hold up a path, push or bolt despite committing all your mana to attack. Comes back with unearth. Comes back with Thunderkin. Removes a blocker so your thunderkin doesn't get killed. Unlike the balls, sticks around to deal 3 every turn without further assistance. Has evasion. Yea okay.

So there you go, a circlejerk of circlejerking elementals.

Now just add the most efficient cards in the format to the deck:
Faithless Looting - needs no explanation. The nut draw for this deck ISN'T looting into thunderkin for skelemental. Its looting into double unearth TWO skelementals, dealing 12 and making the opponent discard 4, possibly when all they've done is lay 1 land. Do you need a plastic bag? You look nauseous.
Burning Inquiry - 4 lootings aren't enough, and this deck has enough redundancy that it doesn't really mind accidentally dropping a thunderkin, since you have vesperlarks and unearths to undo these "mistakes".
Lightning Bolt - it's not until you bolt your own vesperlark (which was brought back with thunderkin) after an opponent fatal pushes your thunderkin to basically return thunderkin before combat that vesperlark's ridiculousness comes to light. Plus, you know, maybe the opponent might try something like "stabilize" against your ridiculous redundancy, so having some reach is cool.
Collective Brutality There are some decks that try to go faster than us, typically with devoted druid and vizier. Others may wise up and hold up removal for thunderkin. But it's cool, you can maindeck this card which, while dropping balls into the GY, will also kill off opposing combo pieces, dorks, or strip away precious removals.

And then some utility cards
Boros Charm - sometimes people think they can destroy your kin, which is so wrong. But if they're not doing naughty stuff like removing your thunderkin, then you have 4 points of reach. Or, you know, you can give skelemental double strike because why not? It's just 12 damage and discard 4... stop crying, here's some tissue.

For the sideboard we have basically, hmmm. Enchantment removal in Wispmare which you can tutor with harbinger and unearth and also return with vesperlark... okay. We have artifact removal in Ingot Chewer, which doesn't come back but can be tutored all the same. Then you have Fulminator Mage, which you can also tutor. And unearth. I mean we're already strong against Tron but sometimes watching these Tron pilots roll around crying in a pool of their own vomit can be refreshing. Depriving Jund of their mana besides making their removal look inadequate is also an option.

So finally, I'd like to present this abomination of a deck, which admittedly is affected by GY hate. But hey, that didn't stop Hogaak.



The boros charms, collective brutality numbers are pretty loose - you can tweak them to your heart's delight. I think the core is pretty much in-the-face obvious (hint: the elementals, unearth and looting spells), but you can do other stuff like Cathartic Reunion or Lightning Axe, too.

Have fun with the deck! I'll be testing and tweaking as I go along, too, especially for that sideboard. I'm playing some cards that help with grindier games, since the maindeck is pretty all-in. The downside is that they too are GY dependant, and you can bet your last dollar those rest-in-peaces and leylines are coming in to blank the graveyard. All I can say is: keep your wispmares close, and your flamekin closer.

See:https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/811776-vesper-lark-and-thunderkin-awakener-elementals].
I posted my list with lot of hours of work on it!!

Brighthearth Banneret probly belongs to this deck.
it's a self discarding lord, can be brought back by Vesperlark and Thunderkin Awakener, and enables Thunderkin Awakener to bring back good stuff like Fulminator Mage

After playing around with the deck, I was impressed with its grindiness but think that it has issues in achieving both speed and consistency at the same time (effectively it cannot deal a lot of damage before turn 3, unless it somehow manages to bin Lightning Skelemental, which means that it would win on turn 5 if the opponent did not interact at all).

With this consideration, I think that the deck can be classified more as a midrange one and I tried to build a version in tune with the following ideas:
a) more easily assemble a full graveyard (with the amount of built-in recursion, elementals in the graveyard are very easy to bring to play)
b) offer disruption to fight in the middle game against combo and removal-heavy decks
c) utilize Vesperlark so that it can provide value

My first take (for the record, I'm torn between the versatility of brutalities and Golgari Thugs).


What I'm really proud of in this deck is the inclusion of removal lightning rod. (My favorite sequence is evoking Vesper->Awakener->Vesper->Freebooter). Perhaps the Blade Splicers in place of Flickerwisps are too cute, since wisps can help push some damage through but I think that awakener->vesper->get back killed awakener is a consistent enough source of damage.

Furthermore, the fact that we can dredge towards Skelemental means that we can avoid running Ball Lightning, which is a very mediocre card on its own.

I think the Insolent Neonate are a cool idea! I included them into my list and will test how they will do.
The focus on dreding and all in into the combo, as well as the freeboters and the bladesplicers do not look that promising to me. I also try to minimize the amount of non-creatures and the amount of non-creature non-red spells, in order to make vial and the elemental-based lands work.

I have been playing around with this type of deck a lot lately, so here is the list I currently want to try:



I tried to combine the grindy elemental synergies with the explosiveness of Thunderkin Awakener into lightning skelemental starts. Faithless Looting, Insolent Neonates and Flamekin Harbinger give this a lot of consistency.

Risen reef is insane value and can draw 5+ cards until turn 4 if you get some thunderkin or vesperlark tirggers.

Spitebellows and flickerwisp are tutorable with harbinger and can help to remove problematic stuff and are also recurable.

Mirror Entity and Omnath, Locus of the Roil are 1 of alternate Wincons you can tutor up.

Aether vial and Smokebraider help casting creatures when stuck with the wrong colours of the 5c manabase, and also help to power out a mass of creatures early.

I choose the draw lands instead of fetches, to be able to draw cards tutored to the top of your deck instantly, and also to get some additional draws from the extra lands from risen reef.

Im not sure yet about the Voice of Resurgence, but it can be a good tutor target against grindy decks.

Changes I could see for this deck are either dropping or increasing the number of Voice of Resurgence and/or smokebraider, and including the last copy of the Insolent Neonate, maybe an Unsettled Mariner or an additonal Flickerwisp, or a mainboard Fulminator Mage.
Some amount of Lightning Bolt is also something I have to test.

Also: I think we can merge this thread and https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/811776-vesper-lark-and-thunderkin-awakener-elementals because they basicly discuss the same deck idea.

With the looting ban, we're now forced to run Neonate either way.

In general, I'm more interested in low-to the ground decks that can also be proactive in their gameplan in addition to grinding. Specifically, I'd like to not auto-lose to all three of Tron, Burn and Control if possible, and I think that with this archetype we can bring in disruptive elements that make it possible.

Unfortunately, for me, goldfish's type of builds don't do this very well; they run a bunch of high mana creatures with the plan of vialing them into play, which I believe is too slow for modern (good luck getting your vial up to 3 on turn 4). The only pieces that help in some of those aspects are, in my opinion, Awakener, Vesperlark and Risen Reef.

Concerning the viability of the dredge strategy, I think it's the best route to try and find multiple synergistic elements without losing an additional turn topdecking them and mana to get them to play. Skelemental on turn 3 after losing the first 2 turns doing nothing is "meh" but on turn 2 or turn 3 after some disruption (including the time to bolt turn 1) is very powerful. Even reanimating some disruption and Skelemental on turn 3 is a very powerful line purely thanks to its mana efficiency in being able to get the respective effects for 1 and 2 mana. In this vein, I think Smokebraider is the correct direction, but I'd rather not run the type of build were a bolt can set me back several turns.

An updated build in this direction:

My last version:

@Ass of Ugin
Charm and simians is interesting, to say the least.
Especially Simians, which I think fix an inherent curve problem by enabling Harbringer into turn 2 skelemental (although this could be too much card disadvantage for an 1-time effect).
Has charm performed well?
Also, just something to keep in mind: perhaps you're playing 1 land too many given the 4 simians, but I get manascrewed a lot on 19 lands without Simians, so who am I to judge?


@Everyone
After a lot of testing, Vesperlark should probably be a 3-of, since it doesn't have a lot of impactful targets (but we do want to see one each game, so I wouldn't cut it further).

Minor notes on Spitebellows:
a) It's an amazing Awakener target with Golgari Thug in play, since it at least guarantees we get Awakener todecked should it die in combat.
b) Curving just a naked Awakener into an evoked Spitebellow is very good against creature-heavy decks.

Charm is a nice looting replace: sometimes help us find and discard the right card and is good as counter.
I felt the deck is 1-turn late so I tested Simian and seems very flexible: enables T1 Charm or T2 Skelemental

Totally agree about Vesperlark: I will cut to 3. Still some doubt about Golgari Thug: maybe I will cut them and 1 Vesperlark to put 3x Burning Inquiry

If you're on the 4x Flamekin Harbinger plan I agree that perhaps dredgers are not needed.

That said, after trying it both ways, I think that dredgers are definitely superior compared to at least the 3rd and 4th harbringers, on account that harbringers don't work well with the reanimation package - i.e. they often leave Vesperlark and Unearth be dead cards in hand.

I tested in the beginning with Inquiry before settling on Rix Maadi Reveler for myself and my opinion is that we can't keep up with the card disadvantage Inquiry creates. If you're on a creature-heavy meta (especially one with Stoneforges) I think Lightning Axe is a good inclusiong. But by all means test it and tell how it goes. Random thought since you're on blue, perhaps Thought Scour could use a try too.


Edit to avoid double posting
After many repetitions in seeking a good trade-off between explosiveness, grindiness and the ability to answer scooze my mainboard has become like this:



Some comments:
- Shriekhorn can get some cards in the graveyard fast to start the engine. I like thinking it as a dredger that "discards itself", which means that it doesn't even need another discard outlet to help find useful things. At this point, I'm pretty convinced that getting cards into play through the graveyard is the only way this deck can become explosive enough to seriously contest the rest of modern's metagame.
- 2x Golgari Thug have proven very solid overall as a supplement to Shriekhorn, but I'm currently on Darkblasts in their place because it's an answer to turn 1 dorks to get back tempo.
- In this type of build that runs Shriekhorns and doesn't reanimate particularly large elementals, I've found that dredgers should be equal in number to Versperlarks to get a gameplay where reanimators don'r remain sitting in hand.

I don't totally agree with dredge plan, seems that the deck become too weak to gv-hate. I only play Stinkweed Imp as glass cannon.
After days of testing, I guess I reach my definitive version. Still not sure of something, but I think is the best mardu options.



Some consideration:
Flamekin Harbinger in my opinion is still the best option, help us to easily find Awakener/Skelemental and let us play as toolbox post-side
Light Up the Stage is totally insane: most of time is 2 card draw for 1 red
Still not sure about SSG and Imp: they are not synergic with Light Up the Stage

So, execution aside, can you comment on the issue I'm identifying @Ass of Ugin: that turn 3 skelemental is too slow to be the primary gameplan?

If you agree, how do you think this can be solved? If you disagree, do you believe that e.g. with the amount of removal you're running you can slow down the game by a turn to execute the same gameplan regardless?

Mind you, I'm not even that reliant on the graveyard - my SB against fair decks usually includes 2x Harbringers + 2x Wear//Tear + 2x Deputy of Detention and I've been reasonably pleased with this configuration.

In my opinion 6 dmg and 2 discard, on turn 3 is not too slow and it worth the effort. Especially if you have recursion in next turns.
Most of time the first two turns are used to set up the plan (tutoring with harbinger, put stuff in gv with RMR, exile cards with Light Up the Stage) and yes, burn stuff could be useful as removal in firs turns.

Dredge plan is interesting, but in my opinion is too fortuitous: when you dredge you only do it for skelemental in gv, the other cards are better in hand.

I'm not saying that the deck si perfect this way, but I think is the best option we have now.

I can't really get behind that statement. However, I'm thinking of exactly Tron and UW stoneblade as the decks we should be able beat to have game against without losing % points in other matchups, which may be mistake.

So, how about running just the Shriekhorns (e.g. in place of SSGs - perhaps also removing the imp) by thinking them as discard outlets for the things Harbringer tutors that also fill the graveyard? I think such a build drastically improves the chances of turn 2 Skelemental overall, without sacrificing much else.

The cool thing with Shriekhorn is that it's a supplement to discard outlets and a turn 1 one to boot! So, you lose only one card (the same as SSG or neonate) to get you ahead of tempo. Generally, I think that a deck running at least 10 reanimation spells + 4 ways to tutor for them would be happy to put more cards in the graveyard.

P.S. Is there any merit at all for Helix instead of Brutality main?
P.P.S. I was toying with Seasoned Pyromancer vs Reveler. I think Reveler curves better overall, but Pyromancer is a better Unearth target.

Cutting ogg SSG and Imp for Shriekhorns could me interesting. I'll give it a test.
About Helix, i like the burn side of the deck and it can deals with many things. but yea, probably brutality is more into out gameplan.
About Seasoned Pyromancer in my opinion is totally out of curves in first turns. maybe we could try 3 revler and 1 pyromancer

Small update: I'm currently 100% degenerate by cutting the Revelers. It could be mistake, but I find disruption generally superior to card advantage, since Skelemental gives us all the advantage we need; getting even in cards is a good trade if we also deal 6 in the process.



Things I tried in the meanwhile:
- 3x Helix: does nothing vs DS, whereas Brutality strips a removal away
- 2x and 3x Seasoned Pyromancer: won or died with it stuck in hand. It was particularly horrendous with SSG.

For the flex slot:
I really don't know what to play there. Anything goes as long as it's either useful in the lategame or supplements existing effects. Currently, I'm on Deputy of Detention to catch bridge and things that slipped past, but it's easy to run an extra (horizon) land, Lightning Axe (it's also a discard outlet to supplement Neonate, but we already get enough card disadvantage), Path/Push/Thoughtseize (I'd like to run two of these though if the first copy is included), Darkblast (this card is amazing in slowing down value-town style and infect - not to mention that it has dredge if needed - but I wouldn't play it solely for this reason anymore) or simply mainboarding an Ingot Chewer (stupid Butterskull).

Those are interesting

Merchant is definitely superior to Reveler thanks to the reduced cost, probably not to Neonate (Neonate can be deployed a turn early to gain more information about the gameplan) and I think perhaps it can substitute an unknown number of Shriekhorns (probably one + another copy in the flex slot). The main constraint is still the amount of mana on the first two turns (ideally, we'd want to first play harbringer to fetch Awakener and on the second turn discard-draw and play Awakener).

I don't see how we can consistently go up to 3-4 attackers for the equipment. Sometimes it happens, but when it does we're usually winning big time already. Additional problem: if we manage to enable it, we'd need two of them + a Flickerwisp = a total of 3 slots that may be hard to free.

Keep building this deck. After all this time, I have a very interesting version that can compete with modern tiers.
I went into grixis color, to add more hand control and gv-fill stuff.

Hi all after a lot of time!
Very intriguing @Ass of Ugin. I did play around with grixis splashing for 2 Vesperlarks for a little bit too.

However, I lately realized that a) Mind Rake exists and is an enabler, disruption and mid-game CA and b) running a playset of Risen Reef allows Harbinger to get immediately its tutor targets in the lategame (hence avoiding the density issue that tended to plague the card). Hence, I went full degenerate (manabase budgetish):


I still haven't found a good way to jam SSGs in there.

hello, im curious why this deck doesnt have results showing its degeneracy? after goldfishing it a bit, i really want to buy into this deck in paper. there is one thing i noticed though... this deck's pilots are kind of scarce and not everything is covered here. for example, on mtg goldfish i found a list piloted by 1 player several times, but their decklist differs quite a bit from the one in this forum. they dont run any unearth, or non-creatures for that matter, safe for aether vial (4x).

i wonder now if these decklists are interchangable? do they have the same strengths/weaknesses? i really like the idea of a maindeck brutality so if there isnt much of a difference i want to build the unearth version. also, how "necessary" are the caverns? does this deck really struggle vs counterspells? my reason tells me the redundancy allows me to easily play around counters, but maybe im missing something? the primer mentions gy hate is tough, is it "gy hate vs dredge" tough or "gy hate vs storm" tough? basically, does gy hate completely shutdown this deck or does it simply slow it down? one last thing, how does this deck fare against: abzan good stuff (or similar), gifts storm (or similar) and humans (or similar)?

im really hyped since my all time favourite deck is a horde of notions tribal commander deck and seeing elementals are viable in modern is like a dream come true!

In my opinion decklists are not interchangeable at all: turn 2 Lightning Skelemental vs turn 2 setup cards and Risen Reef vs Discard are the main consideration and in my experience they have very different strong and weak points.

Regardless of how you build, graveyard hate besides surgical (which is completely random on how good it is depending on the texture of the matchup and the specific cards in play) is "GY vs storm" tough, as Unearth cycles, only the first reanimation effect is that important, Awakener can be setup before you draw counter-hate and there are tutors for counter-hate.

Concerning matchups, I have no experience vs humans (if they're playing Thalia I expect it to be very unfavorable) but the versions with Risen Reef thrive against removal-based decks, control in general and big mana strategies. Against Storm or other combo, it depends on whether the specific flavor manages to discard a critical mass or simply useful things and/or interact with creatures to slow them down for a turn or two.

In my opinion, you can definitely build towards hitting the decks you want to hit by just changing 2-3 slots, although the cards that help do this are not that obvious from a first glance (e.g. run Shriekmaw to help in the human and mono-R prowess matchups so as to curve Harbinger-Shriekmaw-Skelemental when explosiveness isn't there and have a harbinger into Shriekmaw accessible with Reef in the middle game).

Small note that Flamekin Harbinger is really annoying to play with if you don't run Risen Reef versions, so I recommend testing whether you're ok with that; otherwise you need to run the more expensive 5-color manabase to support Reef.

Lastly, I can't say for other pilots but I don't play on MTGO, even if I test a lot in other places.

P.S. My latest mainboard (changes: SSGs and a better manabase after some insightful considerations from reddit). Maindeck 2x Collective Brutality are my flex slots, competing with 2x Golden Goose, 2x Mind Rake or Shriekmaw+Rage Forger (forger invalidates slow graveyard hate).

thanks for the insight! this deck doesnt seem as complex or deep at first glance. i thought its a generic aggro deck that just dumps its creatures and hopes for the win but apparently i will have to think more about the cards im using. that made this deck even cooler than before.

that being said, i am very new to modern and have no clue how to build this deck correctly. is the decklist in the primer still relevant in todays meta? also, what would be general pros and cons for using the risen rift build vs unearth (aside from price)?

I played the vials/risen reef list and managed to get a couple of 5-0s on MTGO and really liked it. This is the version I am currently running:

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/2174686#paper


Pro Reef:
- Strong matchup against grindy decks
- Strong plays involving phantasmal image and vials are possible, like attacking with 2 skelementals on turn 3.
harbinger gives more consistency and can fetch removal, card draw, action or unconditonal removal (for one turn - flickerwisp) and also silver bullets from the sideboard for land/artifact destruction or lifegain
- Not 100% relying on skelemental to win
- Draw from Reef can make up for the Card disadvantage of neonate and simian spirit guide

Cons:
- Less discard, makes combo decks harder, especially spell based ones
- Not as many turn 2 skelementals
- Less removal, harder to stop creature combos


I tried to neglect the cons in my list a bit my adding some lightning bolts, spirit guides and neonates in order to have a little more interaction with my opponents creatures or annoying planeswalkers (W6) and also increase the number of turn 2 skelemental attacks, while also keeping all of the pros. It's only 4,5$ to rent per week on cardhoarder for MTGO. I use their service to be able to play with a deck for a week or two whenever I want, and then cancel the subscription again.

Fully agree on the reef analysis save that it doesn't really compete with turn 2 skelemental but supplements it.

I'm currently thinking that perhaps 3 Reefs are the correct amount,

What does Vial and Phantasmal Image bring to the deck that SSGs/neonate and Unearth didn't already solve more consistently?