the idea of the deck is somehow similar to jund: discard / removal / value creatures / powerful planeswalkers.
the idea started from the newly released rotting regisaur which acts as our version of tarmogoyf which has a very good synergy with asylum visitor for it's madness cost and act as our version of dark confidant.
i made a few playtest and here's my current observation:
- too few creature for unearth / lili last hope to target (-2)
- i sometimes mana flood, not sure if 22 is the correct land count.
what other creatures do you think i can add here or worth consideration? and what to remove from the list to accomodate this. fulminator mage / plague engineer are sure inclusion in the sideboard.
*sideboard is still under construction.
Jund is a color combination, not a strategy. What you're looking for is mono-black midrange.
My first thought is that you run way too much discard in this deck. It looks like an 8-rack deck without any of the cards that really let you capitalize on suppressing your opponent's hand size. Unlike actual midrange decks, your means of dealing with your opponent's present board state are extremely limited, consisting of a handful of edicts and a few pieces of targeted removal. Ultimately, this means that all of your discard doesn't mean much if your opponent resolves a few threats and beats you down.
Asylum Visitor is an extremely cool card, as well as one of my favorite SOI block madness cards. It's actually an interesting budget Bob alternative if you're discarding a lot of cards. Gifted Aetherborn sucks in modern, plain and simple. It doesn't present a serious threat or form of disruption against most decks, even burn, and its body dies to every piece of relevant removal in the format. It's also a low value play with Unearth.
Rotting Regisaur is untested in modern. It resists all of the format's toughness-based removal, and it presents a fast clock unblocked. On the other hand, it has neither trample, evasion, nor immediate impact. If the decline of Tarmogoy is any indication, just being a big ground threat might not be enough anymore.
My first recommendation for this deck is Collective Brutality, which has a lot of functions this deck values. The Aetherborn can go out for Bloodghast. Also, step up your removal game. Dismember is great, but you really need something for big targets, which is surprisingly a blind spot for mono-black in modern. If you want more creatures, start with Geralf's Messenger.
Why is Raven's Crime here ?
This card isn't playable outside of "8-Rack" and "Loam" strategies, even something like Davriel seem like a better alternative.
I agree about Collective Brutality being much better here.
Another card to consider here can be Bitterblossom as a decent attrition card that can help you with blockers and evasion.
A decent threat can be Spawn of Mayhem but triggering its cost reduction can be difficult in a low-threat deck like this.
There is also the newer card Embodiment of Agonies which I haven't tried yet but seems promising.
Not sure how reliable this deck can cast it but Gurmag Angler is a decent threat as well. Knight of the Ebon Legion seems decent for a midrange deck when you get to use its activated ability.
Dead of Winter would be a good sweeper for this deck, especailly to clear the way for Regisaur to get through.
thanks for all the response! yes i agree with you all about raven's crime, as you can see half of this list resemble something about 8rack because i'm indeed an 8rack player and trying to do something midrange.
yes! i missed out on brutality and definitely be included in the list. another card i consider is plaguecrafter another creature that can be targetted by unearth/lili hope as a reusable removal.
the addition of that dinosaur is interesting. I would play a playset of funeral charm with it!
Very versatile. you can get the damamge in with swampwalk, kill target or instant discard. Would replace ravens crime with that.
Gifted aetherborn is the least best card in the deck. you could add one tombstalker in here. Maybe smallpox is great, too. You want to force hellbending in this deck as reliable as possible. maybe +1LotV -1 LtLH
thanks! i'll take funeral charm as a consideration, instant discard, x/1 removal or swampwalk is sweet.
re: gifted aetherborn, my thought is to curve, have intimidating board presence because of deathtouch somehow helps prolong game because of lifelink.
not a fan of smallpox here, we got creatures and more 3 drops, it would be hard to break the symmetry there and we want to have that 3rd land fast.
with decks with this much discard you also need some value plays to offset the value loss.
the 2 big things i would add is bloodghast, and lingering souls, souls might requires a very small splash to white but with the sear amout of discard is should be a very very rare hand cast.
i would also consider gurmag angler. the reason normal jund doesn't run it is dark confidant makes you loos life equal to its mana cost. using visitor allows you to go a slightly different direction (you don't want to many as its not an unearth target, may 2 mb in the deck)
i also agree that bitterblossom is immensely in this style of deck, as the constant value engin should mean your able to outvalue control and always have a blocker against aggro.
I respectfully disagree on bloodghast. It is a good card, but I do feel that gravecrawler is the superior card here. You have 3 mutavaults and 4 rotting regisaurs, all of which are zombies. It should be a straight replacement for gifted aetherborn unless your meta is heavy on burn.
I second/third bitterblossom as a really solid add here. I might consider using it in place of liliana of the last hope
Agree on Aetherborn. From my experience the only times it should be played are 1) In Mono Black Devotion. 2) In a vampire tribal deck. 3) Meta is heavy on red decks or stompy decks. If one of those is not true then it is SB at best.
If you are wanting to be like Jund, but stay to the black colors then you can possibly go
The way this resembles one if the typical Jund Stregities is Shadow is just 1 form of Jund, so I put it in here. But it's a big bruiser that can put opponent into chump mode quickly.
Seize is here because jund plays it and so does shadow.
IoK is backup discard
Push is because you need efficient creature destruction.
Visitor is your Bobby.
CB is just plain good. Takes care of lots of opponents plans.
Triumph is a hold over from your list. Not really Jund like but if you have a Liliana in play it's the closest you will get to a K. Command.
BitterBlossom is a self damaging card that is good with shadow bit also puts pressure on an opponent.
Reggie is your goyf of choice.
Messenger is your Bloodbraid. You always get a shock, unfortunately. But it comes down a turn earlier so it is usually attacking turn 4 as a 3/2. Its a pretty close comparison. Trade haste for resilience.
Both play Liliana of the Vail.
Death's Shadow seems rather odd in Mono Black, I wonder how early you can cast it here on average.
Also, why no Unearth as a reanimation spell (or a cantrip) here ?
I'm not really a fan of Geralf's Messenger here, it is clunky to cast with all the utility lands (without Urborg) and isn't a particularly fast clock anyway.
I'd probably prefer something like Spawn of Mayhem (for the evasion) as the additional threat or maybe Angler or Embodiment of Agonies
(a black flying Tarmogoyf with deathtouch ?).
I wonder if something like Arguel's Blood Fast might be better here than Asylum Visitor, it is a way to turn on DS and later in the game can stabilize the lifetotal if flipped.
I'd also consider Sign in Blood as a more staightforward draw/life-loss spell.
The deck seems a bit lite on removal (to clear the way for the big attackers), so having Dead of Winter seems like a good option here especially with the bigger threats than can survive it like DS and Dino.
A couple of Victim of Night (better than Cast Down) could do a decent Terminate impression here and I'd probably prefer them to Liliana's Triumph. Defile is a pretty good 1-mana removal option here (like a black version of Skred).
If you're mono black, it might behoove you to check out Legacy's "The Gate" thread. Modern doesn't have access to hymn to tourach, of course, but there are tons of value cards you can run that would stick to the theme. The theme here is basically the same.
If you're mono black, it might behoove you to check out Legacy's "The Gate" thread.
wow! didn't know it exist, the principle are the same. thanks that's what i'm really looking for.
sadly the legacy thread is too old (2011) but i'm able to find a modern thread about "the gate" which has a recent activity.
really appreciate this, thank you!
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*list updated:
2 Field of Ruin
3 Mutavault
1 Blast Zone
1 Nurturing Peatland
1 Silent Clearing
11 Swamp
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Fatal Push
2 Liliana's Triumph
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Collective Brutality
4 Thoughtseize
4 Unearth
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Liliana, the Last Hope
Creatures (13)
3 Asylum Visitor
4 Gifted Aetherborn
4 Rotting Regisaur
2 Plaguecrafter
the idea of the deck is somehow similar to jund: discard / removal / value creatures / powerful planeswalkers.
the idea started from the newly released rotting regisaur which acts as our version of tarmogoyf which has a very good synergy with asylum visitor for it's madness cost and act as our version of dark confidant.
i made a few playtest and here's my current observation:
- too few creature for unearth / lili last hope to target (-2)
- i sometimes mana flood, not sure if 22 is the correct land count.
what other creatures do you think i can add here or worth consideration? and what to remove from the list to accomodate this.
fulminator mage / plague engineer are sure inclusion in the sideboard.
*sideboard is still under construction.
My first thought is that you run way too much discard in this deck. It looks like an 8-rack deck without any of the cards that really let you capitalize on suppressing your opponent's hand size. Unlike actual midrange decks, your means of dealing with your opponent's present board state are extremely limited, consisting of a handful of edicts and a few pieces of targeted removal. Ultimately, this means that all of your discard doesn't mean much if your opponent resolves a few threats and beats you down.
Asylum Visitor is an extremely cool card, as well as one of my favorite SOI block madness cards. It's actually an interesting budget Bob alternative if you're discarding a lot of cards. Gifted Aetherborn sucks in modern, plain and simple. It doesn't present a serious threat or form of disruption against most decks, even burn, and its body dies to every piece of relevant removal in the format. It's also a low value play with Unearth.
Rotting Regisaur is untested in modern. It resists all of the format's toughness-based removal, and it presents a fast clock unblocked. On the other hand, it has neither trample, evasion, nor immediate impact. If the decline of Tarmogoy is any indication, just being a big ground threat might not be enough anymore.
My first recommendation for this deck is Collective Brutality, which has a lot of functions this deck values. The Aetherborn can go out for Bloodghast. Also, step up your removal game. Dismember is great, but you really need something for big targets, which is surprisingly a blind spot for mono-black in modern. If you want more creatures, start with Geralf's Messenger.
This card isn't playable outside of "8-Rack" and "Loam" strategies, even something like Davriel seem like a better alternative.
I agree about Collective Brutality being much better here.
Another card to consider here can be Bitterblossom as a decent attrition card that can help you with blockers and evasion.
A decent threat can be Spawn of Mayhem but triggering its cost reduction can be difficult in a low-threat deck like this.
There is also the newer card Embodiment of Agonies which I haven't tried yet but seems promising.
Not sure how reliable this deck can cast it but Gurmag Angler is a decent threat as well.
Knight of the Ebon Legion seems decent for a midrange deck when you get to use its activated ability.
Dead of Winter would be a good sweeper for this deck, especailly to clear the way for Regisaur to get through.
yes! i missed out on brutality and definitely be included in the list. another card i consider is plaguecrafter another creature that can be targetted by unearth/lili hope as a reusable removal.
the addition of that dinosaur is interesting. I would play a playset of funeral charm with it!
Very versatile. you can get the damamge in with swampwalk, kill target or instant discard. Would replace ravens crime with that.
Gifted aetherborn is the least best card in the deck. you could add one tombstalker in here. Maybe smallpox is great, too. You want to force hellbending in this deck as reliable as possible. maybe +1LotV -1 LtLH
re: gifted aetherborn, my thought is to curve, have intimidating board presence because of deathtouch somehow helps prolong game because of lifelink.
not a fan of smallpox here, we got creatures and more 3 drops, it would be hard to break the symmetry there and we want to have that 3rd land fast.
*updated the list
the 2 big things i would add is bloodghast, and lingering souls, souls might requires a very small splash to white but with the sear amout of discard is should be a very very rare hand cast.
i would also consider gurmag angler. the reason normal jund doesn't run it is dark confidant makes you loos life equal to its mana cost. using visitor allows you to go a slightly different direction (you don't want to many as its not an unearth target, may 2 mb in the deck)
i also agree that bitterblossom is immensely in this style of deck, as the constant value engin should mean your able to outvalue control and always have a blocker against aggro.
Competitive Decks
Devotion to the Lash B ----
Monkey Conservation WUGR ---- Dragon WorshipR
I second/third bitterblossom as a really solid add here. I might consider using it in place of liliana of the last hope
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
If you are wanting to be like Jund, but stay to the black colors then you can possibly go
4 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Fatal Push
3 Asylum Visitor
3 Collective Brutality
2 Liliana's Triumph
2 Bitterblossom
3 Geralf's Messenger
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Street Wraith
2 Field of Ruin
3 Mutavault
1 Nurturing Peatland
8 Fetchlands
2 Shock lands
3 Swamp
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
The way this resembles one if the typical Jund Stregities is Shadow is just 1 form of Jund, so I put it in here. But it's a big bruiser that can put opponent into chump mode quickly.
Seize is here because jund plays it and so does shadow.
IoK is backup discard
Push is because you need efficient creature destruction.
Visitor is your Bobby.
CB is just plain good. Takes care of lots of opponents plans.
Triumph is a hold over from your list. Not really Jund like but if you have a Liliana in play it's the closest you will get to a K. Command.
BitterBlossom is a self damaging card that is good with shadow bit also puts pressure on an opponent.
Reggie is your goyf of choice.
Messenger is your Bloodbraid. You always get a shock, unfortunately. But it comes down a turn earlier so it is usually attacking turn 4 as a 3/2. Its a pretty close comparison. Trade haste for resilience.
Both play Liliana of the Vail.
Also, why no Unearth as a reanimation spell (or a cantrip) here ?
I'm not really a fan of Geralf's Messenger here, it is clunky to cast with all the utility lands (without Urborg) and isn't a particularly fast clock anyway.
I'd probably prefer something like Spawn of Mayhem (for the evasion) as the additional threat or maybe Angler or Embodiment of Agonies
(a black flying Tarmogoyf with deathtouch ?).
I wonder if something like Arguel's Blood Fast might be better here than Asylum Visitor, it is a way to turn on DS and later in the game can stabilize the lifetotal if flipped.
I'd also consider Sign in Blood as a more staightforward draw/life-loss spell.
The deck seems a bit lite on removal (to clear the way for the big attackers), so having Dead of Winter seems like a good option here especially with the bigger threats than can survive it like DS and Dino.
A couple of Victim of Night (better than Cast Down) could do a decent Terminate impression here and I'd probably prefer them to Liliana's Triumph.
Defile is a pretty good 1-mana removal option here (like a black version of Skred).
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
wow! didn't know it exist, the principle are the same. thanks that's what i'm really looking for.
sadly the legacy thread is too old (2011) but i'm able to find a modern thread about "the gate" which has a recent activity.
really appreciate this, thank you!