2. Those cards (Snapback, Shoal, Commandeer) are just very situational cards and not worth building around and playing bad card to like Borderpost (and mediocre bouncespells) to fuel them imho.
Black gets tou much better options like real removal: Fatal Push, Cast Down (Go For the Throat/Murderous Cut) and Collective Brutality as hand disruption (and additional effects).
Bouncespells alone (and Shoal) aren't good enough for efficiently interacting and not playing any "real" removal or discard spells (or more countermagic) isn't a great idea imho.
I think this point is moot, considering the pitch functionality of the deck. You literally just toss the useless spells to cast free cards that are relevant and then you refill your hand. You are not wrong in saying that they are situational, but your evaluation of how impactful they are is quite skewed.
Borderpost is rather insane in this deck.
In addition to pitching bad cards, we can always loot them away; the deck doesn't care about having situational cards because if you have other uses for said cards you don't care when they are bad nearly as much.
(As an aside, playing UW Control for the longest and watching Sultai Reclamation not only go under everything I was doing but also out-value me in the process... it felt so, so sweet playing Pitch Blue and flipping the script on them lol)
(As an aside, playing UW Control for the longest and watching Sultai Reclamation not only go under everything I was doing but also out-value me in the process... it felt so, so sweet playing Pitch Blue and flipping the script on them lol)
I don't like the line of play after 1:15 where OP plays the 2nd remand targeting Narset. By Commandeering targeting 1 remand and then aiming that remand at spell snare, and then tapping out to recast spell snare, yet you get both remands out of the OP's hand and also get your Narset in play, but you just tapped out, with no free interaction in hand to protect Narset, and you know the OP has a mystical teachings in hand from when you remanded it earlier, meaning there is no way your Narset survives unless you find a pitch spell off of the -2. If you don't Commandeer at least you get to keep your Narset & spell snare in hand while also holding up both Commandeer & spell snare for the OP's turn. If you do Commandeer a remand, aim it at the other remand so that you resolve the Narset and hold one mana up, meaning you have another hit with the -2 to potentially have some interaction to keep her alive, (obviously OP went for ubrubt decay instead of trophy, however, meaning that the first option of not Commandeering is best).
Also revealing that you have a Notion Thief by casting it when Teachings is on the stack seems questionable. There's no way the OP doesn't search for something to kill your Thief. Wait for them to hopefully get greedy, or pick the wrong bit of interaction with Teachings and then try and play it after they already chose what card they want. Basically, I think you could have baited the opponent into doing what they did at 3:20ish a lot earlier, (tapping out on their turn so that you can Thief into Day's which probably wins you the game.)
(As an aside, playing UW Control for the longest and watching Sultai Reclamation not only go under everything I was doing but also out-value me in the process... it felt so, so sweet playing Pitch Blue and flipping the script on them lol)
I don't like the line of play after 1:15 where OP plays the 2nd remand targeting Narset. By Commandeering targeting 1 remand and then aiming that remand at spell snare, and then tapping out to recast spell snare, yet you get both remands out of the OP's hand and also get your Narset in play, but you just tapped out, with no free interaction in hand to protect Narset, and you know the OP has a mystical teachings in hand from when you remanded it earlier, meaning there is no way your Narset survives unless you find a pitch spell off of the -2. If you don't Commandeer at least you get to keep your Narset & spell snare in hand while also holding up both Commandeer & spell snare for the OP's turn. If you do Commandeer a remand, aim it at the other remand so that you resolve the Narset and hold one mana up, meaning you have another hit with the -2 to potentially have some interaction to keep her alive, (obviously OP went for ubrubt decay instead of trophy, however, meaning that the first option of not Commandeering is best).
Also revealing that you have a Notion Thief by casting it when Teachings is on the stack seems questionable. There's no way the OP doesn't search for something to kill your Thief. Wait for them to hopefully get greedy, or pick the wrong bit of interaction with Teachings and then try and play it after they already chose what card they want. Basically, I think you could have baited the opponent into doing what they did at 3:20ish a lot earlier, (tapping out on their turn so that you can Thief into Day's which probably wins you the game.)
Yeah see the game was spiraling into a situation where I could either throttle my opponent to sticking a timely topdeck and forcing them to have their impact play, or where I could let them mulch through their draws while having interaction. It might have seemed like an all-or-nothing kind of bet but I was really not trying to have them get an extra couple of draws to find a way to break out of their slump. I put them on a lot of ineffective reactionary spells and not a lot of progressive cards like Growth Spiral and whatnot.
The concession was for both of us to end up winded on options and for me to hope that the Remand and Narset activation found me one of the other three Narsets or the other Commandeer. I already knew Abrupt Decay was going to be the kill spell of choice, and wanted to eliminate that from being a problem the rest of the way for Narset no.2 if she were to stick.
I can see where you're coming from and I think it opens a can of worms to try to manipulate a game that now has too many variables to account for when you give yourself an extra card by letting yourself Narset with counter/Consign backup versus just putting your opponent on 'must answer' mode and stressing their responses (like the moment where they needed exactly Fatal Push to not get cards eked out of their grip and that's exactly what they had.) I saw a lot of inherent value in disrupting their cantrips and ability to play on my turn that game and I might probably need to reevaluate the matchup with more data to find out which lines have better %
I wonder why this UB deck doesn't play any Thoughtseize-effects? It helps a lot with stripping cards off of the opponent which speeds up the Lorebroker lock
I wonder why this UB deck doesn't play any Thoughtseize-effects? It helps a lot with stripping cards off of the opponent which speeds up the Lorebroker lock
Because we need our spells to be blue, and as far as I know the only blue card that might be worth playing is Thought Erasure, and even then it seems like it might be a bit of a stretch.
I wonder why this UB deck doesn't play any Thoughtseize-effects? It helps a lot with stripping cards off of the opponent which speeds up the Lorebroker lock
Because we need our spells to be blue, and as far as I know the only blue card that might be worth playing is Thought Erasure, and even then it seems like it might be a bit of a stretch.
There's probably some happy medium of nonblue cards this deck can support, as Disrupting Shoal versions of Modern RUG Delver play mono-red (Bolt) and mono-green (Goyf/Hooting Mandrills) cards. Granted, Commandeer probably ups the blue count further, but in testing, I've cast Snapback for 2 mana at least half the time, so I ditched one for Tyrant's Scorn.
I'm reading some tournament reports on MTGS that mention this deck or something close to it. I'm really wondering what those lists are like, as I haven't seen this deck get any tournament Top 8s or MTGO finishes.
I wonder why this UB deck doesn't play any Thoughtseize-effects? It helps a lot with stripping cards off of the opponent which speeds up the Lorebroker lock
Because we need our spells to be blue, and as far as I know the only blue card that might be worth playing is Thought Erasure, and even then it seems like it might be a bit of a stretch.
There's probably some happy medium of nonblue cards this deck can support, as Disrupting Shoal versions of Modern RUG Delver play mono-red (Bolt) and mono-green (Goyf/Hooting Mandrills) cards. Granted, Commandeer probably ups the blue count further, but in testing, I've cast Snapback for 2 mana at least half the time, so I ditched one for Tyrant's Scorn.
I'm reading some tournament reports on MTGS that mention this deck or something close to it. I'm really wondering what those lists are like, as I haven't seen this deck get any tournament Top 8s or MTGO finishes.
I'll admit, I've been keeping an eye on the Snapback and seeing how often its actually cast for its alternate cost. It's low enough to get me thinking about changing, so good choice there. There are probably scenario's where it is actually really good but for now I agree that it's better to replace some with Tyrant's Scorn.
Speaking of Scorn, I was wondering on people opinions on something; which is better: Tyrant's Scorn or Dimir Charm? Returning a creature allows for the Scorn to always be useful against creatures, however the Charm is able to interact in ways that are not only focused on creatures. Not sure which is better, let me know what you guys think.
Another consideration I had was Mission Briefing, specifically since you're able to pay for Alternate costs.The more I think about it though the worse it seems, since it's basically dead once you cast Day's Undoing and in scenarios where you do have this in hand and it's useful, the card that you replaced with this might have worked anyways. Just an idea, but again, let me know what you guys think!
I didn't see it mentioned anywhere in here but I'm going to be testing the deck with Bontu's Last Reckoning in the side instead of a Damnation. Coming down a turn earlier is great and it disrupting our mana isn't as big of a deal as it is to other decks. It also doesn't affect Mistvein Borderpost so that's also a bonus.
I hope Propaganda is in Modern Horizons. It would help us deal with creature decks that go wide and provide another blue card to pitch if it is not needed.
Tried the deck in the OP against Jund a bunch of times in pre-board games. Narset Pitch Blue lost most of them because Jund is quite good at shredding hands, it doesn't tend to draw additional cards for its CA (see their Dark Confidant, Bloodbraid Elf, Liliana, the Last Hope), it often has a fairly quick clock that can be hard to Engulf the Shore profitably (e.g. Goyf, Scavenging Ooze, BBE), and it dumps its hand fairly quickly and can take advantage of emergency naked Day's Undoing. What can this deck do to combat it and other BGx Midrange decks? How much does post-board removal help?
Ran into a GB player in my league play here - LINK
Most of what was mentioned in my other response came to fruition pretty reasonably. I stopped articulating sometime into this footage as it was pretty late lol. I think Jund is probably the toughest GBx opponent now that I've played all of them, the hasty BBE is a tough call to answer in time.
I am currently building two additionnal versions of the narset lock combo: esper Spirit of the Labyrinth prison/miracles, and bant (maybe splash black for thief) turbofog. I will report when both have reached a level worthy of publication. I also think locking the deck in mono blue just for the pitching isn't very rewarding, and Teferi's puzzle box seems to be actually quite insane with Narset/thief: even with an unrefined version of the deck, it kills the opponent very easily.
I am currently building two additionnal versions of the narset lock combo: esper Spirit of the Labyrinth prison/miracles, and bant (maybe splash black for thief) turbofog. I will report when both have reached a level worthy of publication. I also think locking the deck in mono blue just for the pitching isn't very rewarding, and Teferi's puzzle box seems to be actually quite insane with Narset/thief: even with an unrefined version of the deck, it kills the opponent very easily.
I still think Teferi's puzzle box is bad, but I haven't tested it at all. Pros: it locks the opponent out completely with just 1 card in addition to Narset or Thief. Cons: it does basically nothing when you don't have Narset/Thief in play. Day's, Lore Broker and Geier Reach/Mikokoro all do at least a little something when you don't have a Narset/Thief, and they all help you draw into Thief where Puzzle box doesn't if you don't have much in hand, being 4 mana and sorcery speed also sucks.
That being said, if it is tested and is found to be a viable replacement to Day's/Thief it could save us some slots, (from 11 down to 4+ however many of the old combo pieces we may want to keep for consistency), and cutting cards out of the combo slots will help our interaction suite a ton; so even if it's a slightly worse card when we aren't comboing it, maybe that's ok because the rest of the deck is more efficient anyways with the saved slots.
On the topic of trying different colors: I am currently attempting to brew an esper list myself, (though not for playing Spirit of the Labyrinth). I'm interested in getting to play Supreme Verdict, Dovin's Veto, Path to Exile and my personal favorite, Teferi, Time Raveler. Other than path, they are all still blue cards so they don't interfere with our pitch plan, (a huge plus for Verdict over Damnation, where Engulf just doesn't feel like enough a lot of the time), and Teferi, Time Raveler is a) another answer to both creatures, which the deck struggles with, and b) can also hit resolved artifacts and enchantments which helps a ton because we don't have a lot that can interact with those if they hit the board, being able to hit Aethervial is great, and also making Void Snare instant speed is sweet. Being able to play Day's at instant speed is great too. Teferi's passive also hurts some opponent's naturally and also makes our lock with Thief instant-proof. The awkward part is the mana base. We need lots of blue sources and still have to splash black for Thief, so playing lots of basics is harder when we need 3 colors, (notably WW to cast verdict), but not playing as many basics hurts our borderposts a ton. So do we cut border posts or just play a few basics and then a ton of fetches to make sure we can always find a basic if we need to play a post. Let me know what you guys think here.
I am currently building two additionnal versions of the narset lock combo: esper Spirit of the Labyrinth prison/miracles, and bant (maybe splash black for thief) turbofog. I will report when both have reached a level worthy of publication. I also think locking the deck in mono blue just for the pitching isn't very rewarding, and Teferi's puzzle box seems to be actually quite insane with Narset/thief: even with an unrefined version of the deck, it kills the opponent very easily.
I still think Teferi's puzzle box is bad, but I haven't tested it at all. Pros: it locks the opponent out completely with just 1 card in addition to Narset or Thief. Cons: it does basically nothing when you don't have Narset/Thief in play. Day's, Lore Broker and Geier Reach/Mikokoro all do at least a little something when you don't have a Narset/Thief, and they all help you draw into Thief where Puzzle box doesn't if you don't have much in hand, being 4 mana and sorcery speed also sucks.
That being said, if it is tested and is found to be a viable replacement to Day's/Thief it could save us some slots, (from 11 down to 4+ however many of the old combo pieces we may want to keep for consistency), and cutting cards out of the combo slots will help our interaction suite a ton; so even if it's a slightly worse card when we aren't comboing it, maybe that's ok because the rest of the deck is more efficient anyways with the saved slots.
On the topic of trying different colors: I am currently attempting to brew an esper list myself, (though not for playing Spirit of the Labyrinth). I'm interested in getting to play Supreme Verdict, Dovin's Veto, Path to Exile and my personal favorite, Teferi, Time Raveler. Other than path, they are all still blue cards so they don't interfere with our pitch plan, (a huge plus for Verdict over Damnation, where Engulf just doesn't feel like enough a lot of the time), and Teferi, Time Raveler is a) another answer to both creatures, which the deck struggles with, and b) can also hit resolved artifacts and enchantments which helps a ton because we don't have a lot that can interact with those if they hit the board, being able to hit Aethervial is great, and also making Void Snare instant speed is sweet. Being able to play Day's at instant speed is great too. Teferi's passive also hurts some opponent's naturally and also makes our lock with Thief instant-proof. The awkward part is the mana base. We need lots of blue sources and still have to splash black for Thief, so playing lots of basics is harder when we need 3 colors, (notably WW to cast verdict), but not playing as many basics hurts our borderposts a ton. So do we cut border posts or just play a few basics and then a ton of fetches to make sure we can always find a basic if we need to play a post. Let me know what you guys think here.
I disagree on the "do nothing" part of puzzle box: it's an incredibly effective digging engine that will make you go through so many cards you'd be highly unlucky not to hit Narset or Thief or any card you're actually looking for while already disturbing your opponent's gameplan. I wasn't on the box team, but trying it out just for a few games sold it to me!
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern Death and Taxes (not Eldrazi&Taxes)
Modern Storm
Modern Taking Turns
EDH Jhoira of the Ghitu
I think that the howling mines are good because they give us way more cards, while our pitch cards make sure they can't deploy their powered-up hand without hindrance. Cutting Lore Broker and Notion Thief felt justified to me because so much of the time they turned on otherwise dead creature removal, and they're usually only good when we already are quite far ahead. Meanwhile, Geier Reach Sanitarium does essentially the same thing, locking up the game after an undoing while not taking up any maindeck slots. 4 Snapback has also felt great with the extra cards, and they are fantastic for keeping us safe after we tap out for draw spells. Boomerang is another way to get rid of problem permanents, and is a known good follow-up to howling mine effects. Let me know what yall think!
I am currently building two additionnal versions of the narset lock combo: esper Spirit of the Labyrinth prison/miracles, and bant (maybe splash black for thief) turbofog. I will report when both have reached a level worthy of publication. I also think locking the deck in mono blue just for the pitching isn't very rewarding, and Teferi's puzzle box seems to be actually quite insane with Narset/thief: even with an unrefined version of the deck, it kills the opponent very easily.
I still think Teferi's puzzle box is bad, but I haven't tested it at all. Pros: it locks the opponent out completely with just 1 card in addition to Narset or Thief. Cons: it does basically nothing when you don't have Narset/Thief in play. Day's, Lore Broker and Geier Reach/Mikokoro all do at least a little something when you don't have a Narset/Thief, and they all help you draw into Thief where Puzzle box doesn't if you don't have much in hand, being 4 mana and sorcery speed also sucks.
That being said, if it is tested and is found to be a viable replacement to Day's/Thief it could save us some slots, (from 11 down to 4+ however many of the old combo pieces we may want to keep for consistency), and cutting cards out of the combo slots will help our interaction suite a ton; so even if it's a slightly worse card when we aren't comboing it, maybe that's ok because the rest of the deck is more efficient anyways with the saved slots.
On the topic of trying different colors: I am currently attempting to brew an esper list myself, (though not for playing Spirit of the Labyrinth). I'm interested in getting to play Supreme Verdict, Dovin's Veto, Path to Exile and my personal favorite, Teferi, Time Raveler. Other than path, they are all still blue cards so they don't interfere with our pitch plan, (a huge plus for Verdict over Damnation, where Engulf just doesn't feel like enough a lot of the time), and Teferi, Time Raveler is a) another answer to both creatures, which the deck struggles with, and b) can also hit resolved artifacts and enchantments which helps a ton because we don't have a lot that can interact with those if they hit the board, being able to hit Aethervial is great, and also making Void Snare instant speed is sweet. Being able to play Day's at instant speed is great too. Teferi's passive also hurts some opponent's naturally and also makes our lock with Thief instant-proof. The awkward part is the mana base. We need lots of blue sources and still have to splash black for Thief, so playing lots of basics is harder when we need 3 colors, (notably WW to cast verdict), but not playing as many basics hurts our borderposts a ton. So do we cut border posts or just play a few basics and then a ton of fetches to make sure we can always find a basic if we need to play a post. Let me know what you guys think here.
I disagree on the "do nothing" part of puzzle box: it's an incredibly effective digging engine that will make you go through so many cards you'd be highly unlucky not to hit Narset or Thief or any card you're actually looking for while already disturbing your opponent's gameplan. I wasn't on the box team, but trying it out just for a few games sold it to me!
Puzzle box only filters cards if you already had cards in hand when you cast it whereas Day's can be topdecked and still give you 7 cards no matter what. Enough people are saying it has tested well though so I may give it a shot.
I think that the howling mines are good because they give us way more cards, while our pitch cards make sure they can't deploy their powered-up hand without hindrance. Cutting Lore Broker and Notion Thief felt justified to me because so much of the time they turned on otherwise dead creature removal, and they're usually only good when we already are quite far ahead. Meanwhile, Geier Reach Sanitarium does essentially the same thing, locking up the game after an undoing while not taking up any maindeck slots. 4 Snapback has also felt great with the extra cards, and they are fantastic for keeping us safe after we tap out for draw spells. Boomerang is another way to get rid of problem permanents, and is a known good follow-up to howling mine effects. Let me know what yall think!
I kind of agree with your thoughts on Geier Reach Sanitarium, and reduced my number of Lore Brokers down to 2. Keeping some in just in case the opponent runs Ghost Quarter. Also, the Broker allows us to spend mana whereas the Sanitarium requires us to have 3 mana that we can’t use, and we can only ever have one Sanitarium on the battlefield, whereas we can have multiple Brokers.
I’ve got some cards that I was wondering what people thought of as well: Consign // Oblivion, Cardful Considerations and Chalice of the Void. The first card allows us to bounce a card if it’s a particular annoyance, and then potentiallly cast Oblivion to get the opponent to a low enough hand size without us even needing to cast Day’s Undoing, and lock from there.
Careful Considerations could be a smaller version of Day’s Undoing, especially since it’s an Instant. Also playing as a dig spell for ourselves, I reckon this could be a very good spell. I haven’t tried it out yet, but I have high hopes for it. Chalice of the Void is the one I’m a bit more sceptical on. While it is Colourless and does prevent some of our 1-cmc spells, it does outright prevent our opponents stuff as well.
I have a proposition that might be met with outrage, but I’ll try it anyways: completely cut Disrupting Shoal and go all in on Commandeer and Snapback. This might be a crap idea, but I’m thinking that the way Shoal appears to be skewering our CMC might be a bit too much damage to us. Snapback allows us to answer creature threats temporarily and Commandeer does its usual thing lol. I’ll test out these cards and ideas, and let you guys know how it goes : )
I am currently building two additionnal versions of the narset lock combo: esper Spirit of the Labyrinth prison/miracles, and bant (maybe splash black for thief) turbofog. I will report when both have reached a level worthy of publication. I also think locking the deck in mono blue just for the pitching isn't very rewarding, and Teferi's puzzle box seems to be actually quite insane with Narset/thief: even with an unrefined version of the deck, it kills the opponent very easily.
I still think Teferi's puzzle box is bad, but I haven't tested it at all. Pros: it locks the opponent out completely with just 1 card in addition to Narset or Thief. Cons: it does basically nothing when you don't have Narset/Thief in play. Day's, Lore Broker and Geier Reach/Mikokoro all do at least a little something when you don't have a Narset/Thief, and they all help you draw into Thief where Puzzle box doesn't if you don't have much in hand, being 4 mana and sorcery speed also sucks.
That being said, if it is tested and is found to be a viable replacement to Day's/Thief it could save us some slots, (from 11 down to 4+ however many of the old combo pieces we may want to keep for consistency), and cutting cards out of the combo slots will help our interaction suite a ton; so even if it's a slightly worse card when we aren't comboing it, maybe that's ok because the rest of the deck is more efficient anyways with the saved slots.
On the topic of trying different colors: I am currently attempting to brew an esper list myself, (though not for playing Spirit of the Labyrinth). I'm interested in getting to play Supreme Verdict, Dovin's Veto, Path to Exile and my personal favorite, Teferi, Time Raveler. Other than path, they are all still blue cards so they don't interfere with our pitch plan, (a huge plus for Verdict over Damnation, where Engulf just doesn't feel like enough a lot of the time), and Teferi, Time Raveler is a) another answer to both creatures, which the deck struggles with, and b) can also hit resolved artifacts and enchantments which helps a ton because we don't have a lot that can interact with those if they hit the board, being able to hit Aethervial is great, and also making Void Snare instant speed is sweet. Being able to play Day's at instant speed is great too. Teferi's passive also hurts some opponent's naturally and also makes our lock with Thief instant-proof. The awkward part is the mana base. We need lots of blue sources and still have to splash black for Thief, so playing lots of basics is harder when we need 3 colors, (notably WW to cast verdict), but not playing as many basics hurts our borderposts a ton. So do we cut border posts or just play a few basics and then a ton of fetches to make sure we can always find a basic if we need to play a post. Let me know what you guys think here.
I disagree on the "do nothing" part of puzzle box: it's an incredibly effective digging engine that will make you go through so many cards you'd be highly unlucky not to hit Narset or Thief or any card you're actually looking for while already disturbing your opponent's gameplan. I wasn't on the box team, but trying it out just for a few games sold it to me!
Puzzle box only filters cards if you already had cards in hand when you cast it whereas Day's can be topdecked and still give you 7 cards no matter what. Enough people are saying it has tested well though so I may give it a shot.
If you go Hellbent casting Teferi's Puzzle Box, just keep stuff in hand that you want to filter away afterwards.
I ditched 2 Day's Undoing for 2 Puzzle Boxes. I don't want to switch back. I didn't pitch Day's Undoing that often, I generally found that drawing 6-7 cards with an emergency Day's Undoing was not worth it when my opponent filtered their hand, drew 3-4, and killed my stuff after they drew cards, and Day's Undoing with a draw denier only knocks their hand down (often to 1 card with Narset P) and still gives them the chance to come back. Puzzle Box with a draw denier often completely shuts them out of casting spells (long enough for you to kill them, anyway), and at least emergency Puzzle Box doesn't let your opponent increase their hand size while still letting you filter cards. Even better, Puzzle Box doesn't let them discard flashback cards or Arclight Phoenix, unlike forcing them to loot after getting them Hellbent. I've been winning more often with Puzzle Box than with Day's Undoing.
I’ve got some cards that I was wondering what people thought of as well: Consign // Oblivion, Cardful Considerations and Chalice of the Void. The first card allows us to bounce a card if it’s a particular annoyance, and then potentiallly cast Oblivion to get the opponent to a low enough hand size without us even needing to cast Day’s Undoing, and lock from there.
Careful Considerations could be a smaller version of Day’s Undoing, especially since it’s an Instant. Also playing as a dig spell for ourselves, I reckon this could be a very good spell. I haven’t tried it out yet, but I have high hopes for it. Chalice of the Void is the one I’m a bit more sceptical on. While it is Colourless and does prevent some of our 1-cmc spells, it does outright prevent our opponents stuff as well.
I have a proposition that might be met with outrage, but I’ll try it anyways: completely cut Disrupting Shoal and go all in on Commandeer and Snapback. This might be a crap idea, but I’m thinking that the way Shoal appears to be skewering our CMC might be a bit too much damage to us. Snapback allows us to answer creature threats temporarily and Commandeer does its usual thing lol. I’ll test out these cards and ideas, and let you guys know how it goes : )
I do not support ditching Disrupting Shoal, especially for Snapback. Shoal (and Commandeer) permanently deal with cards, while Snapback does not (unless you knock their hand size down immediately afterward). Additionally, I've cast Snapback for its full mana cost at least half the time. I'd rather ditch Snapback completely--it doesn't save me well enough.
Careful Consideration looks spicy, though. For me, it's a serious contender for ditching a Day's Undoing with. It either draws 2 cards at sorcery speed when you don't have a draw denier, or it makes them discard 3 cards at instant speed with a draw denier (and you get to draw 4 with Notion Thief instead of Narset P!).
In order to lock the opponent out of drawing cards with lore broker and Notion Thief's ability, you must activate the looting effect in response to them drawing a card on their draw step, so they immediately loot, not drawing the card for the loot, and discarding the card they just drew, with you also drawing an extra card due to Notion Thief's ability.
I would rephrase that a little bit because it might be a bit confusing for newer players. The way its phrased here would suggest that you want to activate the looting before they draw their card for the turn. Obviously, you can't respond to the normal card drawn in the draw step, as drawing your normal card is not a trigger and the draw step starts with players drawing a card without anyone getting priority.
I know what you mean and the combo is correct to work here, but I would just say: Activate the loot effect in your opponents draw step.
In order to lock the opponent out of drawing cards with lore broker and Notion Thief's ability, you must activate the looting effect in response to them drawing a card on their draw step, so they immediately loot, not drawing the card for the loot, and discarding the card they just drew, with you also drawing an extra card due to Notion Thief's ability.
I would rephrase that a little bit because it might be a bit confusing for newer players. The way its phrased here would suggest that you want to activate the looting before they draw their card for the turn. Obviously, you can't respond to the normal card drawn in the draw step, as drawing your normal card is not a trigger and the draw step starts with players drawing a card without anyone getting priority.
I know what you mean and the combo is correct to work here, but I would just say: Activate the loot effect in your opponents draw step.
Thanks for that; you're absolutely right it could be misleading the way I worded it.
So far Teferi, Time Raveler has felt good against both creature decks and combo/control decks. Ticking down to deal with permanents and get an extra draw is awesome, but my favorite part about him is getting to Wrath/Day's at instant speed. So far the mana hasn't been too much of a problem running 3 colors, I went up 1 more land to have room for a few more fetches while still keeping the basic count high. I also cut one Geier Reach for a plains which has been nice against field of ruin/path, though I do miss the extra combo piece. Verdict being blue, (and also being 4 cmc) has been great in place of damnation, and obviously it deals with creatures better than Engulf. Haven't tested Dovin's Veto yet, mostly because I'm not sure where I can fit it in.
So far Teferi, Time Raveler has felt good against both creature decks and combo/control decks. Ticking down to deal with permanents and get an extra draw is awesome, but my favorite part about him is getting to Wrath/Day's at instant speed. So far the mana hasn't been too much of a problem running 3 colors, I went up 1 more land to have room for a few more fetches while still keeping the basic count high. I also cut one Geier Reach for a plains which has been nice against field of ruin/path, though I do miss the extra combo piece. Verdict being blue, (and also being 4 cmc) has been great in place of damnation, and obviously it deals with creatures better than Engulf. Haven't tested Dovin's Veto yet, mostly because I'm not sure where I can fit it in.
If you're going the Teferi way, I think it could be interesting to bring in some black mana and get IoK/Thoughtseize instead of the pitching package. Tef's making these cards useful in the late game too. That'd give you the opportunity to run two snapcasters or Quellers to have a real clock too, allowing you to win with a single day's undoing "discard" without Brokers
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Modern Death and Taxes (not Eldrazi&Taxes)
Modern Storm
Modern Taking Turns
EDH Jhoira of the Ghitu
With this deck, I often want my opponent to lose their hand as soon as possible. This deck has trouble ramping, so Karn GC will almost always delay casting Teferi's Puzzle Box by one turn. I find that this deck has trouble controlling the board, so a one-turn delay may very well end up being crucial.
Karn GC is a pretty powerful card overall, though, and this deck lures attacks away from him with Narset P.
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In addition to pitching bad cards, we can always loot them away; the deck doesn't care about having situational cards because if you have other uses for said cards you don't care when they are bad nearly as much.
In this game one, what would you have done differently, if anything?
Pitch Blue vs Sultai Reclamation (5/7/2019) LINK
(As an aside, playing UW Control for the longest and watching Sultai Reclamation not only go under everything I was doing but also out-value me in the process... it felt so, so sweet playing Pitch Blue and flipping the script on them lol)
I don't like the line of play after 1:15 where OP plays the 2nd remand targeting Narset. By Commandeering targeting 1 remand and then aiming that remand at spell snare, and then tapping out to recast spell snare, yet you get both remands out of the OP's hand and also get your Narset in play, but you just tapped out, with no free interaction in hand to protect Narset, and you know the OP has a mystical teachings in hand from when you remanded it earlier, meaning there is no way your Narset survives unless you find a pitch spell off of the -2. If you don't Commandeer at least you get to keep your Narset & spell snare in hand while also holding up both Commandeer & spell snare for the OP's turn. If you do Commandeer a remand, aim it at the other remand so that you resolve the Narset and hold one mana up, meaning you have another hit with the -2 to potentially have some interaction to keep her alive, (obviously OP went for ubrubt decay instead of trophy, however, meaning that the first option of not Commandeering is best).
Also revealing that you have a Notion Thief by casting it when Teachings is on the stack seems questionable. There's no way the OP doesn't search for something to kill your Thief. Wait for them to hopefully get greedy, or pick the wrong bit of interaction with Teachings and then try and play it after they already chose what card they want. Basically, I think you could have baited the opponent into doing what they did at 3:20ish a lot earlier, (tapping out on their turn so that you can Thief into Day's which probably wins you the game.)
Yeah see the game was spiraling into a situation where I could either throttle my opponent to sticking a timely topdeck and forcing them to have their impact play, or where I could let them mulch through their draws while having interaction. It might have seemed like an all-or-nothing kind of bet but I was really not trying to have them get an extra couple of draws to find a way to break out of their slump. I put them on a lot of ineffective reactionary spells and not a lot of progressive cards like Growth Spiral and whatnot.
The concession was for both of us to end up winded on options and for me to hope that the Remand and Narset activation found me one of the other three Narsets or the other Commandeer. I already knew Abrupt Decay was going to be the kill spell of choice, and wanted to eliminate that from being a problem the rest of the way for Narset no.2 if she were to stick.
I can see where you're coming from and I think it opens a can of worms to try to manipulate a game that now has too many variables to account for when you give yourself an extra card by letting yourself Narset with counter/Consign backup versus just putting your opponent on 'must answer' mode and stressing their responses (like the moment where they needed exactly Fatal Push to not get cards eked out of their grip and that's exactly what they had.) I saw a lot of inherent value in disrupting their cantrips and ability to play on my turn that game and I might probably need to reevaluate the matchup with more data to find out which lines have better %
Because we need our spells to be blue, and as far as I know the only blue card that might be worth playing is Thought Erasure, and even then it seems like it might be a bit of a stretch.
There's probably some happy medium of nonblue cards this deck can support, as Disrupting Shoal versions of Modern RUG Delver play mono-red (Bolt) and mono-green (Goyf/Hooting Mandrills) cards. Granted, Commandeer probably ups the blue count further, but in testing, I've cast Snapback for 2 mana at least half the time, so I ditched one for Tyrant's Scorn.
I'm reading some tournament reports on MTGS that mention this deck or something close to it. I'm really wondering what those lists are like, as I haven't seen this deck get any tournament Top 8s or MTGO finishes.
I'll admit, I've been keeping an eye on the Snapback and seeing how often its actually cast for its alternate cost. It's low enough to get me thinking about changing, so good choice there. There are probably scenario's where it is actually really good but for now I agree that it's better to replace some with Tyrant's Scorn.
Speaking of Scorn, I was wondering on people opinions on something; which is better: Tyrant's Scorn or Dimir Charm? Returning a creature allows for the Scorn to always be useful against creatures, however the Charm is able to interact in ways that are not only focused on creatures. Not sure which is better, let me know what you guys think.
Another consideration I had was Mission Briefing, specifically since you're able to pay for Alternate costs.The more I think about it though the worse it seems, since it's basically dead once you cast Day's Undoing and in scenarios where you do have this in hand and it's useful, the card that you replaced with this might have worked anyways. Just an idea, but again, let me know what you guys think!
Ran into a GB player in my league play here - LINK
Most of what was mentioned in my other response came to fruition pretty reasonably. I stopped articulating sometime into this footage as it was pretty late lol. I think Jund is probably the toughest GBx opponent now that I've played all of them, the hasty BBE is a tough call to answer in time.
I'm also wondering about Engulf the shore's maindeckability.
Modern Storm
Modern Taking Turns
EDH Jhoira of the Ghitu
I still think Teferi's puzzle box is bad, but I haven't tested it at all. Pros: it locks the opponent out completely with just 1 card in addition to Narset or Thief. Cons: it does basically nothing when you don't have Narset/Thief in play. Day's, Lore Broker and Geier Reach/Mikokoro all do at least a little something when you don't have a Narset/Thief, and they all help you draw into Thief where Puzzle box doesn't if you don't have much in hand, being 4 mana and sorcery speed also sucks.
That being said, if it is tested and is found to be a viable replacement to Day's/Thief it could save us some slots, (from 11 down to 4+ however many of the old combo pieces we may want to keep for consistency), and cutting cards out of the combo slots will help our interaction suite a ton; so even if it's a slightly worse card when we aren't comboing it, maybe that's ok because the rest of the deck is more efficient anyways with the saved slots.
On the topic of trying different colors: I am currently attempting to brew an esper list myself, (though not for playing Spirit of the Labyrinth). I'm interested in getting to play Supreme Verdict, Dovin's Veto, Path to Exile and my personal favorite, Teferi, Time Raveler. Other than path, they are all still blue cards so they don't interfere with our pitch plan, (a huge plus for Verdict over Damnation, where Engulf just doesn't feel like enough a lot of the time), and Teferi, Time Raveler is a) another answer to both creatures, which the deck struggles with, and b) can also hit resolved artifacts and enchantments which helps a ton because we don't have a lot that can interact with those if they hit the board, being able to hit Aethervial is great, and also making Void Snare instant speed is sweet. Being able to play Day's at instant speed is great too. Teferi's passive also hurts some opponent's naturally and also makes our lock with Thief instant-proof. The awkward part is the mana base. We need lots of blue sources and still have to splash black for Thief, so playing lots of basics is harder when we need 3 colors, (notably WW to cast verdict), but not playing as many basics hurts our borderposts a ton. So do we cut border posts or just play a few basics and then a ton of fetches to make sure we can always find a basic if we need to play a post. Let me know what you guys think here.
I disagree on the "do nothing" part of puzzle box: it's an incredibly effective digging engine that will make you go through so many cards you'd be highly unlucky not to hit Narset or Thief or any card you're actually looking for while already disturbing your opponent's gameplan. I wasn't on the box team, but trying it out just for a few games sold it to me!
Modern Storm
Modern Taking Turns
EDH Jhoira of the Ghitu
2 Blast Zone
14 Island
1 Faerie Conclave
2 Geier Reach Sanitarium
2 Gemstone Caverns
2 Howling Mine
3 Dictate of Kruphix
3 Boomerang
4 Narset, Parter of Veils
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Commandeer
4 Day's Undoing
4 Disrupting Shoal
1 Serum Visions
2 Engulf the Shore
2 Void Snare
2 Remand
4 Snapback
1 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
2 Blast Zone
2 Commandeer
1 Dispel
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Engulf the Shore
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Spell Snare
2 Threads of Disloyalty
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Void Snare
I think that the howling mines are good because they give us way more cards, while our pitch cards make sure they can't deploy their powered-up hand without hindrance. Cutting Lore Broker and Notion Thief felt justified to me because so much of the time they turned on otherwise dead creature removal, and they're usually only good when we already are quite far ahead. Meanwhile, Geier Reach Sanitarium does essentially the same thing, locking up the game after an undoing while not taking up any maindeck slots. 4 Snapback has also felt great with the extra cards, and they are fantastic for keeping us safe after we tap out for draw spells. Boomerang is another way to get rid of problem permanents, and is a known good follow-up to howling mine effects. Let me know what yall think!
Puzzle box only filters cards if you already had cards in hand when you cast it whereas Day's can be topdecked and still give you 7 cards no matter what. Enough people are saying it has tested well though so I may give it a shot.
I kind of agree with your thoughts on Geier Reach Sanitarium, and reduced my number of Lore Brokers down to 2. Keeping some in just in case the opponent runs Ghost Quarter. Also, the Broker allows us to spend mana whereas the Sanitarium requires us to have 3 mana that we can’t use, and we can only ever have one Sanitarium on the battlefield, whereas we can have multiple Brokers.
Careful Considerations could be a smaller version of Day’s Undoing, especially since it’s an Instant. Also playing as a dig spell for ourselves, I reckon this could be a very good spell. I haven’t tried it out yet, but I have high hopes for it. Chalice of the Void is the one I’m a bit more sceptical on. While it is Colourless and does prevent some of our 1-cmc spells, it does outright prevent our opponents stuff as well.
I have a proposition that might be met with outrage, but I’ll try it anyways: completely cut Disrupting Shoal and go all in on Commandeer and Snapback. This might be a crap idea, but I’m thinking that the way Shoal appears to be skewering our CMC might be a bit too much damage to us. Snapback allows us to answer creature threats temporarily and Commandeer does its usual thing lol. I’ll test out these cards and ideas, and let you guys know how it goes : )
If you go Hellbent casting Teferi's Puzzle Box, just keep stuff in hand that you want to filter away afterwards.
I ditched 2 Day's Undoing for 2 Puzzle Boxes. I don't want to switch back. I didn't pitch Day's Undoing that often, I generally found that drawing 6-7 cards with an emergency Day's Undoing was not worth it when my opponent filtered their hand, drew 3-4, and killed my stuff after they drew cards, and Day's Undoing with a draw denier only knocks their hand down (often to 1 card with Narset P) and still gives them the chance to come back. Puzzle Box with a draw denier often completely shuts them out of casting spells (long enough for you to kill them, anyway), and at least emergency Puzzle Box doesn't let your opponent increase their hand size while still letting you filter cards. Even better, Puzzle Box doesn't let them discard flashback cards or Arclight Phoenix, unlike forcing them to loot after getting them Hellbent. I've been winning more often with Puzzle Box than with Day's Undoing.
I do not support ditching Disrupting Shoal, especially for Snapback. Shoal (and Commandeer) permanently deal with cards, while Snapback does not (unless you knock their hand size down immediately afterward). Additionally, I've cast Snapback for its full mana cost at least half the time. I'd rather ditch Snapback completely--it doesn't save me well enough.
Careful Consideration looks spicy, though. For me, it's a serious contender for ditching a Day's Undoing with. It either draws 2 cards at sorcery speed when you don't have a draw denier, or it makes them discard 3 cards at instant speed with a draw denier (and you get to draw 4 with Notion Thief instead of Narset P!).
I would rephrase that a little bit because it might be a bit confusing for newer players. The way its phrased here would suggest that you want to activate the looting before they draw their card for the turn. Obviously, you can't respond to the normal card drawn in the draw step, as drawing your normal card is not a trigger and the draw step starts with players drawing a card without anyone getting priority.
I know what you mean and the combo is correct to work here, but I would just say: Activate the loot effect in your opponents draw step.
Thanks for that; you're absolutely right it could be misleading the way I worded it.
4x Narset, Parter of Veils
3x Teferi, Time Raveler
Creatures-7
4x Lore Broker
3x Notion Thief
Instants-17
2x Commandeer
4x Disrupting Shoal
2x Remand
2x Snapback
3x Spell Pierce
2x Spell Snare
2x Unsubstantiate
3x Fieldmist Borderpost
1x Mistvein Borderpost
Sorceries-6
4x Day's Undoing
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Void Snare
Lands- 19
4x Flooded Strand
1x Geier Reach Sanitarium
2x Hallowed Fountain
6x Island
1x Plains
4x Polluted Delta
1x Watery Grave
2x Ashiok, Dream Render
2x Blast Zone
2x Commandeer
2x Path to Exile
2x Relic of Progenitus
3x Supreme Verdict
2x Unmoored Ego
So far Teferi, Time Raveler has felt good against both creature decks and combo/control decks. Ticking down to deal with permanents and get an extra draw is awesome, but my favorite part about him is getting to Wrath/Day's at instant speed. So far the mana hasn't been too much of a problem running 3 colors, I went up 1 more land to have room for a few more fetches while still keeping the basic count high. I also cut one Geier Reach for a plains which has been nice against field of ruin/path, though I do miss the extra combo piece. Verdict being blue, (and also being 4 cmc) has been great in place of damnation, and obviously it deals with creatures better than Engulf. Haven't tested Dovin's Veto yet, mostly because I'm not sure where I can fit it in.
If you're going the Teferi way, I think it could be interesting to bring in some black mana and get IoK/Thoughtseize instead of the pitching package. Tef's making these cards useful in the late game too. That'd give you the opportunity to run two snapcasters or Quellers to have a real clock too, allowing you to win with a single day's undoing "discard" without Brokers
Modern Storm
Modern Taking Turns
EDH Jhoira of the Ghitu
With this deck, I often want my opponent to lose their hand as soon as possible. This deck has trouble ramping, so Karn GC will almost always delay casting Teferi's Puzzle Box by one turn. I find that this deck has trouble controlling the board, so a one-turn delay may very well end up being crucial.
Karn GC is a pretty powerful card overall, though, and this deck lures attacks away from him with Narset P.