So shes hype right? I've seen people talking about "Simic Growth Chamber, Twiddle, ? Profit!", maybe I figured it out or found something to laugh at. I have 4 copies of Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner from the prerelease weekend and wanted to try to break it with like Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx but found out that the cards needed to survive the current meta are mostly 1 green and I haven't seen a green stompy deck place in a while but I could use an elf build approach. I'm tired of playing elves.
After browsing Legacy decks for a day or two I found a U/G Post deck and it was doing Eldrazi wincons. "Ok", Nykthos and I believe World Breaker(I'm calling him WB from here on) does effect Devotion, not enough but I like what he does. I also found older Turbo Muclh decks and thought that would be a great way to fill my hand/thin my deck. This also gets to abouse WB's ability "Seems great."
Now I have this problem where I can't use Candelabra of Tawnos or Cloudpost, fml. I ask myself what lands that are legal actually produce more than 1 and ofc Tron and Simic growth Chamber(SGC).
Simic Growth Chamber comes into play tapped and it also bounces a land. Inorder to over come that you can flash them in with Growth Spirial as early as T2.
On T3 you can now untap with 4 mana up but only 3 lands. Kiora, untap SGC, Land for turn and you now have got 3 mana open still. At this point I had a few choices and I really liked the Turbo Mulch Idea so I went with it and seen an interaction with Thought Scour because of the blessing loop but also Hooting Mandrills triggers the Kiora and can be cast for 1 mana. I used 1 on scour and 1 on Mandrill so I still have one up, bluff Dispel or is it Dismember?
Anyway I ghost a few times with some of the cards that resemble the post build like Pithing Needle and Engineered Explosives because I've seen these cards do work in all formats and they are very Flexable in this deck. My buddy comes over 1 night to help me with the build and the only things we had to test against are Burn by Brandon Dempsey (4th SCGC 2/3/19) and an esper control he had that involved Kaya and Teferi with Esper Charm. We break the deck down to after to see what makes it tick. He tells me it mocks Amulet Titan and I should use Amulet of Vigor so I get instant mana. With only a few CIPT perms I kinda disagree but I liked that Azusa, Lost but Seeking fills that 3 cost hole instead of a bunch of cantrips and get some benefit from Mulch. I also like Primeval Titan(pt) and he triggers Kiora too so lets keep trying this.
I end up with a bunch of mana search but nothing to dump into or huge to cast unless I keep the Eldrazi approach. Devotion isn't working and I have a lot of mana anyway. I don't even need PT at this point because I'm getting like 7-9 mana by turn 4-5 without him. I'm just short to cast the big big Eldrazi but WB still fits and once you see the filler atm along with my mana base Sundering Titan sounds good too.
tbh im looking for something to kill them with. the design is to fight mana resources early with the spreading seas and possible WB on T4 to set them back 1/2 their lands. once you get there what does it do? I'm also thinking of Platinum Angel in the 75 because it triggers Kiora, fits the T4 7mana.
I've also seen that Esper control is trying to make a rise in the meta using Thoughtseize and Esper Charm, would Obstinate Baloth be worth?
Its really tap out play and that itself is a problem because if some of the "combo" gets countered/destroyed it will fail. seeing as though i'm trying to capitalize on that setup I only need 1 of each piece so mayb Disrupting Shoal and Pact of Negation would help.
also @megatog201, if you have some favorite creatures that would help draw or abuse the abundance of mana I would like to see. tyvm for showing intrest.
Would definately take out the mulch and blessings for cards that more powerfully affect the board.
Edit: Also Orobo is legendary. Quicksilver Fountain probably makes up close to .0015-.0016 of the meta. So unless your lgs has the single player playing it I would knock them down to 1 at most and run other lands. Anything duel related would do the trick.
I’ve gone down to just 2 copies of each, although they let me see a lot of cards quickly like you said, they don’t have any impact and I cut quicksilver almost instantly. I had the oboro/fountain combo from a U/B control with bloodghast but I had finished it while jund midrange was still in the top meta %
Now that I have more copies of Azusa, getting to 9 mana T4 is pretty consistent although I do miss 3/10 ghost and have 7 mana.
The leylines was to help vs discard and burn so I tried the Baloths with good success with an additional threat that triggers the draw.
I’ll post a newer version once I get home today.
Azusa, Lost but Seeking x4
Hooting mandrills x4
World breaker x2
Sundering Titan x2
Tarmogyf x4
Sanctum of Ugin x1
Radiant fountain x3
Ghost Quarter x1
Field of ruin x3
Simic growth chamber x4
Forest x3
Misty rainforest x2
Island x1
Botanical sanctum x3
Bojuka bog x1
Breeding pool x1
Oboro, palace in the clouds x2
Since I only need 1 Kiora, Spiral, and Azusa to get to 9 mana on T4 all the other copies are just draw consistancy to make it go boom. Its defiantly tapout play until that happens so being able to stop a big lot of the counter/removal/discard for 0 mana is nice! I decided to keep shoal at 3 with a ceremonious rejection to fight trons T3 bomb and it stops some other stuff as well.
I went with the sylvan scrying to tutor Sanctum of Ugin to just end the game after the 1st WB or ST but i haven't got a chance to play test it since I've made the change.
I know the mana base needs to be reworked because with Azusa i can end T3 with ghostquarter and that works very well with the limited amount of basics people run now or to even stop Ink/Blink nexus
this weekend I will be testing vs burn, fish, sultai control with thopter combo, blue tron, and green tron.
Idk. If you can consistently get to 9 mana rather early in a green deck then maybe play the 9/9 elephant that can blow up 3 lands? Nice sb card if nothing else.
Terastodon? man, that's a card I haven't used in a while but he did wonders back in the day! I don't own him anymore but hes cheap, and I like big mana so iI'll pick some up. 9 Mana is also the Entwine on Tooth and Nail so it could combo like crazy or get into a few 4/x creatures at once.
With her being G/U naturally I chose those colors but she could be just green and I'm not looking at her full potential. this could be a way to abuse Imaginary Pet as well.
If you play tooth and nail you can just go the instant win combination of haste god and spaghetti monster. That's more of a win con and not so much the synergy of the planeswalker. Then again doing an alternative win con doesn't ever hurt if you have slots.... which is probably better than just playing some big dumb elephant.... unless you have the slots. Lol
I guess the way to combine the 2 is something. Using 4/x creatures to stabilize and then a big boom.
She fits in a lot of things but maybe heartless summoning with sky swallowers, wurmcoils, carnage tyrants and what not to trigger her draw because the older list would loop myr retrievers.
Sounds fun.
are creatures you wanna use.
trying to support delirium and delve forces you to run street wraith and mishra's bauble type cards for getting the yard full.
I came to the realization thought that I'm playing back Sultai or Rock strategies with her.
The real abuse of her trigger ability seems to be in Green devotion. There you get use out of that untap ability to further abuse your ramp spells. the abuse comes from either gaea's anthem + garruk wildspeaker or rampaging baloths I found that baloths is best. Every land drop is a card draw.
Just thought about this. Would you consider running Utopia Sprawl? This helps ramp her out then you have access to 2 mana after you untap. That can lead to a pretty explosive start.
Is this deck not between a rock and a hard place? Either it is a bad version of amulet titan, GBX Rock, or BXX Deathshadow. Can you not just play one of those three decks?
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I have dyslexia, no I am not going to spell check for you, yes you have to live with the horrors of it.
Is this deck not between a rock and a hard place? Either it is a bad version of amulet titan, GBX Rock, or BXX Deathshadow. Can you not just play one of those three decks?
And not innovate? Nearly every possibility should be looked into. Or else the format becomes solved and it either gets a tier 0 deck or becomes a rock, paper, scissors matchup.
@metatog201 Last night at FNM one of my MTG career friends told me this really wants Hydroid Krasis because it comes in with the counters already on and it reminded me of the Standard in which esper was strong because Supreme Verdict and Sphinx's Revelation had just came out. what it did was play pillow fort until you slowly taxed your opponent with Tamiyo, the Moon Sage, Elixir of Immortality, and a counter that exiled; all that and a Thragtusk or 2.
When you cast an (X) spell you declare the value then pay for it and cost reduction can see that much like Logic Knot and Delve. Heartless summoning and Krasis for 2 would be a Baleful Strix with Trample instead of Deathtouch. yes I know its not the same unfortunately.
If we're ramping to make Tammy's high cost viable, this could be a strat. really my biggest concern with the delve mechanic is how do you fuel your yard fast enough? Life from the Loam and Gifts Ungiven normally do the trick in U/G/x and I feel this gets away from abusing the draw triggers.
Do we need to abuse the draw so much as her untap? Untapping tron lands sounds reeaaallllyyyyy good too. I like the way BUG sounds though, shoot you could turn the ramp into a big Death Cloud and even though Tasigur, the Golden Fang and Hooting Mandrill with Heartless Summoning falls short Gurmag Angler does not. Really any of the old BUG list built like that do not and that was pre Carnage Tyrant.
I had said that I was going to Play test some of the Azusa build this weekend but I forgot it was Mother's Day so every one is busy. Oh the person that said Hydroid Krasis also said Vexing Devil that has me thinking of Huntmaster of the Fells.
@VidarThor I could I just try to build stuff while I keep my tiered decks together to go to FNMs with. This is some of my extra stuff I'm trying to build into a good jank for lulz when I go. Sometimes they end up a pretty good conversation piece and inspire the newer players if I do well because its not proven. Sure I already have a players set of fetch/shocks to help the consistency but I don't tell them that.
If I talk about this stuff on salvation the whole net can see it and it may become a developing thread for a lot of people to play or even better.
alright so we're still making a combination of whats proven, i get it. big cheap dudes dot deck. death's shadow does it with street wraith and Death's Shadow, Delves the wraith with Germag Angler, tada. what about taking that and adding goyf and that dino...Ghalta, Primal Hunger?
I've been playing 4 kiora in a BUG list with 2 vraska the unseen, and 2 vraska golgari queen.
Kiora's card draw lets me lower my density of removal as her ramp works towards playing these more costly, but multi-use walkers. Currently down to just a single assassin's trophy main.
Having a high density of threats that all draw cards is pretty fun.
Kiora untapping a blue source for stubborn denial post-hooting mandrills resolution is also extremely satisfying.
Happy brewing!
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After browsing Legacy decks for a day or two I found a U/G Post deck and it was doing Eldrazi wincons. "Ok", Nykthos and I believe World Breaker(I'm calling him WB from here on) does effect Devotion, not enough but I like what he does. I also found older Turbo Muclh decks and thought that would be a great way to fill my hand/thin my deck. This also gets to abouse WB's ability "Seems great."
Now I have this problem where I can't use Candelabra of Tawnos or Cloudpost, fml. I ask myself what lands that are legal actually produce more than 1 and ofc Tron and Simic growth Chamber(SGC).
Simic Growth Chamber comes into play tapped and it also bounces a land. Inorder to over come that you can flash them in with Growth Spirial as early as T2.
On T3 you can now untap with 4 mana up but only 3 lands. Kiora, untap SGC, Land for turn and you now have got 3 mana open still. At this point I had a few choices and I really liked the Turbo Mulch Idea so I went with it and seen an interaction with Thought Scour because of the blessing loop but also Hooting Mandrills triggers the Kiora and can be cast for 1 mana. I used 1 on scour and 1 on Mandrill so I still have one up, bluff Dispel or is it Dismember?
Anyway I ghost a few times with some of the cards that resemble the post build like Pithing Needle and Engineered Explosives because I've seen these cards do work in all formats and they are very Flexable in this deck. My buddy comes over 1 night to help me with the build and the only things we had to test against are Burn by Brandon Dempsey (4th SCGC 2/3/19) and an esper control he had that involved Kaya and Teferi with Esper Charm. We break the deck down to after to see what makes it tick. He tells me it mocks Amulet Titan and I should use Amulet of Vigor so I get instant mana. With only a few CIPT perms I kinda disagree but I liked that Azusa, Lost but Seeking fills that 3 cost hole instead of a bunch of cantrips and get some benefit from Mulch. I also like Primeval Titan(pt) and he triggers Kiora too so lets keep trying this.
I end up with a bunch of mana search but nothing to dump into or huge to cast unless I keep the Eldrazi approach. Devotion isn't working and I have a lot of mana anyway. I don't even need PT at this point because I'm getting like 7-9 mana by turn 4-5 without him. I'm just short to cast the big big Eldrazi but WB still fits and once you see the filler atm along with my mana base Sundering Titan sounds good too.
Simic worldbreaker deck 1.3
Repeal x3
Thought scour x4
Mulch x4
Spreading seas x4
Gaea's blessing x3
Growth spiral x4
Azusa, Lost but Seeking x3
Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner x3
Hooting mandrills x4
World breaker x3
Radiant fountain x3
Ghost Quarter x1
Field of ruin x3
Simic growth chamber x4
Forest x4
Misty rainforest x2
Island x1
Botanical sanctum x2
Bojuka bog x1
Breeding pool x1
Oboro, palace in the clouds x3
SB:
Choke x1
Tormod's Crypt x2
Dismember x2
Leyline of Sanctity x3
Ceremonious Rejection x1
Dispel x1
Chameleon Colossus x1
Pithing Needle x1
Engineered Explosives x2
Negate x1
I was just playing around with Quicksilver Fountain is the reason for Oboro, Palace in the Clouds before I realized that the T3 Azusa trick followed by Spreading Seas is the set up for T4 WB. Lower duels and Islands also helps Choke. This is my reasoning for Sundering Titan that you can pick their Island over your own.
I've also seen that Esper control is trying to make a rise in the meta using Thoughtseize and Esper Charm, would Obstinate Baloth be worth?
Its really tap out play and that itself is a problem because if some of the "combo" gets countered/destroyed it will fail. seeing as though i'm trying to capitalize on that setup I only need 1 of each piece so mayb Disrupting Shoal and Pact of Negation would help.
Edit: Also Orobo is legendary. Quicksilver Fountain probably makes up close to .0015-.0016 of the meta. So unless your lgs has the single player playing it I would knock them down to 1 at most and run other lands. Anything duel related would do the trick.
Now that I have more copies of Azusa, getting to 9 mana T4 is pretty consistent although I do miss 3/10 ghost and have 7 mana.
The leylines was to help vs discard and burn so I tried the Baloths with good success with an additional threat that triggers the draw.
I’ll post a newer version once I get home today.
Repeal x2
Thought scour x4
Sylvan Scrying x1
Growth spiral x4
Spreading seas x4
Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner x4
Azusa, Lost but Seeking x4
Hooting mandrills x4
World breaker x2
Sundering Titan x2
Tarmogyf x4
Sanctum of Ugin x1
Radiant fountain x3
Ghost Quarter x1
Field of ruin x3
Simic growth chamber x4
Forest x3
Misty rainforest x2
Island x1
Botanical sanctum x3
Bojuka bog x1
Breeding pool x1
Oboro, palace in the clouds x2
SB:
Choke x1
Tormod's Crypt x2
Dismember x2
Obstinate Baloth x3
Ceremonious Rejection x1
Chameleon Colossus x1
Pithing Needle x1
Engineered Explosives x1
Disrupting Shoal x3
Since I only need 1 Kiora, Spiral, and Azusa to get to 9 mana on T4 all the other copies are just draw consistancy to make it go boom. Its defiantly tapout play until that happens so being able to stop a big lot of the counter/removal/discard for 0 mana is nice! I decided to keep shoal at 3 with a ceremonious rejection to fight trons T3 bomb and it stops some other stuff as well.
I went with the sylvan scrying to tutor Sanctum of Ugin to just end the game after the 1st WB or ST but i haven't got a chance to play test it since I've made the change.
I know the mana base needs to be reworked because with Azusa i can end T3 with ghostquarter and that works very well with the limited amount of basics people run now or to even stop Ink/Blink nexus
this weekend I will be testing vs burn, fish, sultai control with thopter combo, blue tron, and green tron.
With her being G/U naturally I chose those colors but she could be just green and I'm not looking at her full potential. this could be a way to abuse Imaginary Pet as well.
She fits in a lot of things but maybe heartless summoning with sky swallowers, wurmcoils, carnage tyrants and what not to trigger her draw because the older list would loop myr retrievers.
Sounds fun.
I found that
tarmogoyf
grim flayer
steelleaf paladin
tasigur, the golden fang
are creatures you wanna use.
trying to support delirium and delve forces you to run street wraith and mishra's bauble type cards for getting the yard full.
I came to the realization thought that I'm playing back Sultai or Rock strategies with her.
The real abuse of her trigger ability seems to be in Green devotion. There you get use out of that untap ability to further abuse your ramp spells. the abuse comes from either gaea's anthem + garruk wildspeaker or rampaging baloths I found that baloths is best. Every land drop is a card draw.
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Thought Seize
2 Inquisition of Kozleck
3 Fatal Push
2 Assassin's Trophy
3 Street Wraith
2 Tasigur, The Golden Fang
3 Grim Flayer
4 Death's Shadow
2 Gurmag Angler
19 lands heavy on the fetch
Maybe something like this? I realize it isnt exactly what OP intended, but looks pretty powerful.
When you cast an (X) spell you declare the value then pay for it and cost reduction can see that much like Logic Knot and Delve. Heartless summoning and Krasis for 2 would be a Baleful Strix with Trample instead of Deathtouch. yes I know its not the same unfortunately.
If we're ramping to make Tammy's high cost viable, this could be a strat. really my biggest concern with the delve mechanic is how do you fuel your yard fast enough? Life from the Loam and Gifts Ungiven normally do the trick in U/G/x and I feel this gets away from abusing the draw triggers.
Do we need to abuse the draw so much as her untap? Untapping tron lands sounds reeaaallllyyyyy good too. I like the way BUG sounds though, shoot you could turn the ramp into a big Death Cloud and even though Tasigur, the Golden Fang and Hooting Mandrill with Heartless Summoning falls short Gurmag Angler does not. Really any of the old BUG list built like that do not and that was pre Carnage Tyrant.
I had said that I was going to Play test some of the Azusa build this weekend but I forgot it was Mother's Day so every one is busy. Oh the person that said Hydroid Krasis also said Vexing Devil that has me thinking of Huntmaster of the Fells.
@VidarThor I could I just try to build stuff while I keep my tiered decks together to go to FNMs with. This is some of my extra stuff I'm trying to build into a good jank for lulz when I go. Sometimes they end up a pretty good conversation piece and inspire the newer players if I do well because its not proven. Sure I already have a players set of fetch/shocks to help the consistency but I don't tell them that.
If I talk about this stuff on salvation the whole net can see it and it may become a developing thread for a lot of people to play or even better.
Kiora's card draw lets me lower my density of removal as her ramp works towards playing these more costly, but multi-use walkers. Currently down to just a single assassin's trophy main.
Having a high density of threats that all draw cards is pretty fun.
Kiora untapping a blue source for stubborn denial post-hooting mandrills resolution is also extremely satisfying.
Happy brewing!