Obviously, there are several places where this build can be optimized. Note how much these two lists disagree and where they believe the flex slots are.
And I found that this deck can outrace Affinity. Affinity.
Even given my neophyte piloting skills, this deck is capable of some viciously fast starts (although it may be less consistent than BridgeVine).
Runaway Steam-Kin is the guy you want to untap with on Turn 3, the mana generator and beatstick you close to always want to see. It's the biggest removal magnet in the deck--Hardened Scales Robots won significantly more often whenever it Walking Ballista'd the Steam-Kin ASAP--but thanks to the mana it makes, you can string together 10 or more spells in a single turn by Turn 5.
Arclight Phoenix is part of your most busted starts and your semi-resilient late-game--a good opener often involves Turn 1 Faithless Looting into dumping an Arclight. Against decks without fliers, it also turns Risk Factor into a Draw 3 at fairly high life totals (7 life for 1 Arclight, 10 life for 2 Arclights, etc.). And in a deck that can string together 10 spells in a turn on Turns 4-5, of course you can pull these guys out of the graveyard on Turns 2-3.
Cards like Bedlam Reveler end up being the gas that keeps the red instants and sorceries flowing. Risk Factor doesn't end up being gas that often if your opponent knows what's up, especially since this deck can be slow at actually dealing damage in the first 2 turns.
I don't know whether the best strategy is to aim burn at their face or their best creatures. This deck can effectively combo off mid-game, though, which makes me think that killing powerful creatures might be the better way to go.
I suspect the version with fewer rituals is the better one, but which build do you think is best, and how much of the Modern metagame do you think this deck can rip up? Keep in mind that this deck is vulnerable to Damping Sphere, Eidolon of Rhetoric....
This deck is legit. There is a lot of excitement behind it. H0lydiva has regularly streamed the deck on twitch, and the deck has made some paper appearances with strong finishes. I know of 2 that made top 8 in an SCG IQ. Check out diva's twitch and Twitter where she updates the deck regularly!
Yeah it's really impressive how consistent and resilient the deck is for a modern deck. I'm really really impressed with it so far and I think it'll have a pretty good future in modern as a solid budget deck that is powerful enough to steal some wins consistently.
Any chance to use it as a transformer deck? It has just enough in common with Free Win Red that it seems like you could side from hyper aggro to control and so blank their removal.
Any chance to use it as a transformer deck? It has just enough in common with Free Win Red that it seems like you could side from hyper aggro to control and so blank their removal.
That seems reasonable. The deck already has a reasonable post board plan in Shrine of Burning Rage to deal with post graveyard hate since the deck uses it so well. Insult//Injury + Shrine is a really really potent combination also. I advise checking out h0lydiva's videos on Twitch to see it in action. Also, test if a prison strategy post board would be good enough! It could work!
Without Steam-Kin, it's really hard to go off though. I'm playing Humans (the deck I usually play myself) against it right now, and between Thalia, FreeB, Med Mage, Ref Mage and an overall more consistent clock, the red deck has a pretty poor G1 MU.
Some cards have to be too cute (or too mana-intensive) in those lists. Weirdly enough, I think I'd like to try 4x Crash Through, probably cut the split card and Tormenting Voices, then bet on the fact I can discard the Phoenix with Looting, Reveler and Risk Factor.
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Without Steam-Kin, it's really hard to go off though. I'm playing Humans (the deck I usually play myself) against it right now, and between Thalia, FreeB, Med Mage, Ref Mage and an overall more consistent clock, the red deck has a pretty poor G1 MU.
Some cards have to be too cute (or too mana-intensive) in those lists. Weirdly enough, I think I'd like to try 4x Crash Through, probably cut the split card and Tormenting Voices, then bet on the fact I can discard the Phoenix with Looting, Reveler and Risk Factor.
Bizarrely, I tested against BR Hollow One last night and I won a bunch of times withoutRunaway Steam-Kin. Just reanimating Arclight Phoenixes, jamming the board with Bedlam Revelers, and killing their early drops. I should test against Humans and Spirits, though.
Insult // Injury has indeed been the worst card in the deck from my experience, but Tormenting Voice has been fine as an Arclight and Fiery Temper discard outlet. I tried Dangerous Wager and ditched a fairly full hand too often with it. I've been desperate enough to use Risk Factor to discard Arclight, but that process still feels too slow because that's happening on Turn 3 at earliest. Also, I think I've hardcast Arclight more often than I've ditched it with Reveler.
Given my mulligan habits, Crash Through has been great glue, though. I often cast it on Turn 1, especially if I kept a 1-land hand. The trample-granting is occasionally helpful.
Would Needle Drop be an option? Or possibly Gut Shot? One thing I'm curious about trying is The Flame of Keld instead of Risk Factor as a finisher. It seems a bit of a liability but really strong when it gets to the third chapter, especially with a board full of creatures.
Would Needle Drop be an option? Or possibly Gut Shot? One thing I'm curious about trying is The Flame of Keld instead of Risk Factor as a finisher. It seems a bit of a liability but really strong when it gets to the third chapter, especially with a board full of creatures.
Needle Drop is terrible at fixing your hand on Turn 1 (or any turn where you have no creatures and play no burn spells), so I still recommend Crash Through instead.
Gut Shot is in one of the MTGO Modern League decks' sideboards, so it's an option.
The Flame of Keld has a nasty tendency to end your spell chain by making you discard your hand without letting you draw cards immediately, unlike Bedlam Reveler or Risk Factor. Because of that, I don't like it in this deck. Also, from my testing, I've found that Risk Factor is less reliable gas, not a finisher. Finishers in this deck tend to range from creature beats to burn spells not named Risk Factor being aimed at the opposing dome.
I'd like to share one more variation of this archetype. My take is definitely less combo'y, but it's very lean and equipped in my opinion with a more consistent back-up plan (i.e. bad burn deck), at least when compared to the earliest builds with eight ritual effects.
I've found Monastery Swiftspear to be excellent in the deck. While not a spell for Phoenix, Runaway Steam-Kin enjoys the addition of a red 1cc spell. The consistent pressure and 'burn plan' also makes Risk Factor even better than it already was in this archetype. Playset of Ramunap Ruins feels pretty much a free-roll in the deck.
Ritual(s) do have better synergy with the deck overall, but Simian Spirit Guide powers out Steam-Kin on turn one. I must test a lot more to determine which I like more. This current build is optimised for speed during the first couple turns of the game, thus four Gut Shots and the SSG's.
I've been thinking of exactly one Flame Jab to help recur Phoenixes, but it would replace either third Risk Factor or 13th Mountain.
Ritual(s) do have better synergy with the deck overall, but Simian Spirit Guide powers out Steam-Kin on turn one. I must test a lot more to determine which I like more. This current build is optimised for speed during the first couple turns of the game, thus four Gut Shots and the SSG's.
Isn't Young Pyromancer a good card then ? It's another body to ramp on turn 1 and it triggers with Gut Shot for free. I'm not sure Bedlam Reveler is the right card for the archetype (Risk Factor has the same effect sort of), and it's pretty hard to cast with fewer cards we want in the graveyard in comparison to Mardu. Just tossing rough thoughts.
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Young Pyromancer fits nicely in a slower deck, but in this archetype Runaway Steam-Kin is so much better that it's not even funny. Risk Factors by themselves are are not enough to keep the cards flowing, so Bedlam's are irreplaceable in my opinion. I've tried The Flame of Kelds earlier, but came to the same conclusion as Lectrys that it's a problem that you don't get the cards right away, especially if you've chained some spells beforehand and wanted to recur Phoenixes.
I can't say that Bedlam's are always easy to cast 'on time' with only 23 spells in the deck, but Steam-Kin does wonders also on that front.
I'm glad I bought my Arclights just in time. They've already gone up a dollar and are out of stock at SCG. I'm a little skeptical of the card just because I feel like if you're gonna be a graveyard deck, why not dredge but I love the idea.
Steam Kins and Revelers are virtually always at 4 - even the Arclights can hit 4 with maximize velocity - so I like the inclusion of Flamewake Phoenixes. I like the Loam plan, which allows the deck to run magmatic insights for more velocity. The Loams can also result in some pretty sick phoenix plays. Originally I tried to toy with Edge of Autumn over the rituals with the inclusion of loam, but I'm not too sure.
I'd like to ask all those lists's owners how they win their G1s overall.
SB games can offer dedicated spells that obviously steal wins, but G1 it's a mystery to me (besides the fact opponents may play and draw poorly, and have bad MUs VS such a strat). More specifically, I see cheap creatures were added and I still doubt the effectiveness or either Phoenix or Reveler as a 4-of (Courier draws cards as Reveler does after all).
If it's about goldfishing, I'm afraid consistency won't be high enough, and I understand even more the early pressure the deck needs via Swiftspear or Courier.
The other question is obviously the power of Rituals. Since the archetype appears to 5-0 without them, it's legit to doubt their necessity, even their effectiveness outside of a goldfish turn.
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Do we finally have a deck that could actually comfortably play Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh as a spicy fun-of? What do you guys think? Could be either sideboard or maindeck.
I think Monastery Swiftspear over Bomat Courier is way better. The other main switch is with Burst Lightning over Lava Spike. Lava Spike has felt awful, and kicking Burst Lightning has come up quite a lot. After seeing the UR list, I'm not sure I agree with a lot of the choices ( I think Reveler is necessary to power through the later turns of the game), but Chart a Course looks so much better than Tormenting Voice it's not even funny. I want to see if a blue splash is worth it for Chart a Course over Tormenting Voice and SB counterspells.
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19 Mountain
Creatures
4 Arclight Phoenix
4 Bedlam Reveler
4 Runaway Steam-Kin
Spells
4 Faithless Looting
2 Insult // Injury
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Fiery Temper
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Manamorphose
4 Pyretic Ritual
3 Risk Factor
1 Risk Factor
2 Abrade
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Blood Moon
3 Shrine of Burning Rage
3 Surgical Extraction
19 Mountain
Creatures
4 Arclight Phoenix
4 Bedlam Reveler
4 Runaway Steam-Kin
Spells
4 Faithless Looting
1 Insult // Injury
2 Lava Spike
3 Tormenting Voice
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Fiery Temper
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Manamorphose
3 Risk Factor
1 Risk Factor
2 Abrade
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Blood Moon
1 Gut Shot
2 Shrine of Burning Rage
3 Surgical Extraction
Obviously, there are several places where this build can be optimized. Note how much these two lists disagree and where they believe the flex slots are.
So I tried building a version on Cockatrice:
2 Ramunap Ruins
17 Mountain
Creatures
4 Arclight Phoenix
4 Bedlam Reveler
4 Runaway Steam-Kin
Spells
4 Faithless Looting
1 Insult // Injury
2 Tormenting Voice
2 Crash Through
1 Burst Lightning
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Fiery Temper
4 Manamorphose
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Risk Factor
1 Shrine of Burning Rage
3 Blood Moon
2 Abrade
1 Risk Factor
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Anger of the Gods
1 Blazing Volley
1 Grapeshot
And I found that this deck can outrace Affinity. Affinity.
Even given my neophyte piloting skills, this deck is capable of some viciously fast starts (although it may be less consistent than BridgeVine).
Runaway Steam-Kin is the guy you want to untap with on Turn 3, the mana generator and beatstick you close to always want to see. It's the biggest removal magnet in the deck--Hardened Scales Robots won significantly more often whenever it Walking Ballista'd the Steam-Kin ASAP--but thanks to the mana it makes, you can string together 10 or more spells in a single turn by Turn 5.
Arclight Phoenix is part of your most busted starts and your semi-resilient late-game--a good opener often involves Turn 1 Faithless Looting into dumping an Arclight. Against decks without fliers, it also turns Risk Factor into a Draw 3 at fairly high life totals (7 life for 1 Arclight, 10 life for 2 Arclights, etc.). And in a deck that can string together 10 spells in a turn on Turns 4-5, of course you can pull these guys out of the graveyard on Turns 2-3.
Cards like Bedlam Reveler end up being the gas that keeps the red instants and sorceries flowing. Risk Factor doesn't end up being gas that often if your opponent knows what's up, especially since this deck can be slow at actually dealing damage in the first 2 turns.
I don't know whether the best strategy is to aim burn at their face or their best creatures. This deck can effectively combo off mid-game, though, which makes me think that killing powerful creatures might be the better way to go.
I suspect the version with fewer rituals is the better one, but which build do you think is best, and how much of the Modern metagame do you think this deck can rip up? Keep in mind that this deck is vulnerable to Damping Sphere, Eidolon of Rhetoric....
And since it's new, people aren't very preapred for it yet.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Spirits
I'll do some testing and get back to the thread
Edit: found her. Excited to watch the deck in action!
Some cards have to be too cute (or too mana-intensive) in those lists. Weirdly enough, I think I'd like to try 4x Crash Through, probably cut the split card and Tormenting Voices, then bet on the fact I can discard the Phoenix with Looting, Reveler and Risk Factor.
Bizarrely, I tested against BR Hollow One last night and I won a bunch of times without Runaway Steam-Kin. Just reanimating Arclight Phoenixes, jamming the board with Bedlam Revelers, and killing their early drops. I should test against Humans and Spirits, though.
Insult // Injury has indeed been the worst card in the deck from my experience, but Tormenting Voice has been fine as an Arclight and Fiery Temper discard outlet. I tried Dangerous Wager and ditched a fairly full hand too often with it. I've been desperate enough to use Risk Factor to discard Arclight, but that process still feels too slow because that's happening on Turn 3 at earliest. Also, I think I've hardcast Arclight more often than I've ditched it with Reveler.
Given my mulligan habits, Crash Through has been great glue, though. I often cast it on Turn 1, especially if I kept a 1-land hand. The trample-granting is occasionally helpful.
Needle Drop is terrible at fixing your hand on Turn 1 (or any turn where you have no creatures and play no burn spells), so I still recommend Crash Through instead.
Gut Shot is in one of the MTGO Modern League decks' sideboards, so it's an option.
The Flame of Keld has a nasty tendency to end your spell chain by making you discard your hand without letting you draw cards immediately, unlike Bedlam Reveler or Risk Factor. Because of that, I don't like it in this deck. Also, from my testing, I've found that Risk Factor is less reliable gas, not a finisher. Finishers in this deck tend to range from creature beats to burn spells not named Risk Factor being aimed at the opposing dome.
I'd like to share one more variation of this archetype. My take is definitely less combo'y, but it's very lean and equipped in my opinion with a more consistent back-up plan (i.e. bad burn deck), at least when compared to the earliest builds with eight ritual effects.
4 Runaway Steam-Kin
4 Arclight Phoenix
4 Bedlam Reveler
4 Gut Shot
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Manamorphose
3 Risk Factor
4 Ramunap Ruins
4 Simian Spirit Guide
I've found Monastery Swiftspear to be excellent in the deck. While not a spell for Phoenix, Runaway Steam-Kin enjoys the addition of a red 1cc spell. The consistent pressure and 'burn plan' also makes Risk Factor even better than it already was in this archetype. Playset of Ramunap Ruins feels pretty much a free-roll in the deck.
Ritual(s) do have better synergy with the deck overall, but Simian Spirit Guide powers out Steam-Kin on turn one. I must test a lot more to determine which I like more. This current build is optimised for speed during the first couple turns of the game, thus four Gut Shots and the SSG's.
I've been thinking of exactly one Flame Jab to help recur Phoenixes, but it would replace either third Risk Factor or 13th Mountain.
Let me know what you think.
Isn't Young Pyromancer a good card then ? It's another body to ramp on turn 1 and it triggers with Gut Shot for free. I'm not sure Bedlam Reveler is the right card for the archetype (Risk Factor has the same effect sort of), and it's pretty hard to cast with fewer cards we want in the graveyard in comparison to Mardu. Just tossing rough thoughts.
I can't say that Bedlam's are always easy to cast 'on time' with only 23 spells in the deck, but Steam-Kin does wonders also on that front.
18 Mountain
Creatures
4 Arclight Phoenix
4 Bedlam Reveler
4 Bomat Courier
4 Runaway Steam-Kin
Spells
4 Faithless Looting
3 Tormenting Voice
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Fiery Temper
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Manamorphose
3 Pyretic Ritual
2 Abrade
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Blood Moon
2 Dragon's Claw
2 Shrine of Burning Rage
3 Surgical Extraction
4 Spirebluff Canal
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Island
4 Mountain
Creatures
4 Arclight Phoenix
4 Goblin Electromancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Runaway Steam-Kin
4 Chart a Course
4 Faithless Looting
4 Fiery Temper
1 Gut Shot
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Manamorphose
4 Risk Factor
3 Ancient Grudge
2 Grim Lavamancer
3 Spell Pierce
1 Surgical Extraction
4 The Flame of Keld
2 Tormod's Crypt
Such wide disagreement...I'm definitely tinkering with my list tonight.
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Wooded Foothills
3x Copperline Gorge
2x Steam Vents
2x Stomping Ground
3x Mountain
1x Forest
2x Dakmor Salvage
Creature
4x Runaway Steam-Kin
3x Flamewake Phoenix
4x Arclight Phoenix
4x Bedlam Reveler
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Desperate Ritual
Sorcery
2x Maximize Velocity
1x Flame Jab
4x Faithless Looting
4x Magmatic Insight
4x Life from the Loam
3x Risk Factor
3x Nature's Claim
2x Ravenous Trap
1x Gut Shot
1x Negate
1x Spell Pierce
1x Apostle's Blessing
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Young Pyromancer
1x Dragon's Claw
1x Driven // Despair
Steam Kins and Revelers are virtually always at 4 - even the Arclights can hit 4 with maximize velocity - so I like the inclusion of Flamewake Phoenixes. I like the Loam plan, which allows the deck to run magmatic insights for more velocity. The Loams can also result in some pretty sick phoenix plays. Originally I tried to toy with Edge of Autumn over the rituals with the inclusion of loam, but I'm not too sure.
SB games can offer dedicated spells that obviously steal wins, but G1 it's a mystery to me (besides the fact opponents may play and draw poorly, and have bad MUs VS such a strat). More specifically, I see cheap creatures were added and I still doubt the effectiveness or either Phoenix or Reveler as a 4-of (Courier draws cards as Reveler does after all).
If it's about goldfishing, I'm afraid consistency won't be high enough, and I understand even more the early pressure the deck needs via Swiftspear or Courier.
The other question is obviously the power of Rituals. Since the archetype appears to 5-0 without them, it's legit to doubt their necessity, even their effectiveness outside of a goldfish turn.
Instant (19)
2x Burst Lightning
4x Desperate Ritual
3x Fiery Temper
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Manamorphose
2x Risk Factor
Land (18)
18x Mountain
Creature (16)
4x Arclight Phoenix
4x Bedlam Reveler
4x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Runaway Steam-Kin
Sorcery (7)
4x Faithless Looting
3x Tormenting Voice
Sideboard (15)
2x Abrade
3x Anger of the Gods
3x Blood Moon
2x Dragon's Claw
1x Gut Shot
2x Shrine of Burning Rage
2x Surgical Extraction
I think Monastery Swiftspear over Bomat Courier is way better. The other main switch is with Burst Lightning over Lava Spike. Lava Spike has felt awful, and kicking Burst Lightning has come up quite a lot. After seeing the UR list, I'm not sure I agree with a lot of the choices ( I think Reveler is necessary to power through the later turns of the game), but Chart a Course looks so much better than Tormenting Voice it's not even funny. I want to see if a blue splash is worth it for Chart a Course over Tormenting Voice and SB counterspells.