So this is a deck that I've been working on a lot lately that I am calling Argent Moon, and I wanted to get your guys' input.
One of my favorite cards in Magic is Liquimetal Coating, and I've always wanted to build a deck around it. I went through a bunch of iterations (mono-green/Gruul/Temur/Bant), before I settled on Izzet. After a bunch of clunkiness where I either got what I needed out early and won the war of attrition, and the next I lost very quickly having not had time to assemble the pieces, I realized I needed to go for a lot more control.
Adding Thing in the Ice/Awoken Horror gave me a great wincon, but I needed to actually make it to the point where I could use it as one. I liked the strength of Blue Moon, so I added that land package and Blood Moon, and the deck really turned a corner and started to perform much better
I feel like I'm on the right track here, as a kind of mix of Ponza and Blue Moon, but I don't have much experience with control at all, and have only been playing Modern for about 9 months, so my inexperience is really showing when it comes to some card choices. Let me know what you think, and if you have any ideas!
The goal for the MB is to put down some early threats in Delver and Titi to wear down their life totals and protect me, or force answers, while I build up a boardstate that allows me to start taking out their lands for "free", one or two a turn or more.
I feel like I've refined the Liquimetal package down as far as it can go. Things like Splinter and Mycosynth Lattice, while very fun, aren't feasible in Modern. I think a 1/2-of of Surgical Extraction does the job of Splinter, but better. Cards like Abrade and Smash to Smithereens offer more impact and flexibility than a lot of the mono-green options. I do, however, miss having Green for Ancient Grudge, as that was a fantastic card, but I couldn't justify the splash for just a flashback cost.
March of the Machines adds a bit of inevitability to the combo, where tapping Liquimetal Coating each turn can effectively stall their boardstate and start to send it backwards. This combo also allows you to turn your own stuff into attackers, like Saheeli or the March itself. I like the idea of Myr Landshaper to pile on the removal, but it never felt that great in practice.
Blood Moon adds that last bit of control the deck needed that is hard for many opponent's deck to work their way out from under by itself, much less with land destruction thrown in too. Considering finding a spot for some Spreading Seas as well.
Sideboard has the two Saheeli infinite combos. This is a potential T3 win, and along with the rest of the deck is fairly resilient. Definitely a lot of room for improvement in the SB.
Let me know if you have any suggestions or criticisms! This is my first control deck so I have a lot to learn, and there is a ton of playtesting left, but I really feel like there is something here.
I think you're absolutely right.Even though I still like Mission Briefing, I am starting to understand what makes Snappy better. Also, I have really missed Ancient Grudge ever since I took it out when it was gruul.
I am giving the Temur version another try, with a Delver shell because I still think that is super solid. I'll update this post when that has taken shape.
Well I spent a few weeks trying different variations, and came back to Izzet because of the strength of the simplified landbase, which really lets me trim down the number of lands pretty significantly and add more spells.
A recurring problem I was having was not having the spell density to consistently remove artifacts or creatures, or counter spells. Snapcaster Mage helped a little, but didn't seem that impactful (at least the way this deck was set up). Mission Briefing was a bit better (my only real draw sculpting), but then I lost board presence. If I boosted the number of raw spells I had, I made the creature base weaker, and had to cut into the Coating package. I didn't want to do any of those things.
In my frustration I added Isochron Scepters on a whim, and converted the spellbase to all instants under 2 cmc. What started as almost a joke turned into one of the strongest versions of this deck yet.
I carried over the Thing in the Ice from the old deck, as well as added Young Pyromancer which is an idea I got from some Blue Moon decks running around. Both proc often because the spells imprinted on the scepter are cast each time.
So not only is the deck stronger, it is also stupidly fun, which is about all I could ask for.
I removed the sideboard infinite combo because at ~8 cards it meant I was weakening the MB and SB just to include it.
I'm still working on the balance a bit, but I've already got a few playtests in and it is a pretty significant improvement over all the past versions of the deck. The spells are great on their own, but getting them on a scepter is even better. Not relying on the scepter means it isn't that big of a deal if it gets destroyed, but if I can protect it it just generates a ton of value.
Burn is still a problem, but it seems like that is true for a lot of Blue Moon style decks. I had a ton of really close games against Spirits, and one game I won very handily, and this is a deck I've never beaten in Modern, not even a single game. A number of close games were decided by misplays on my part, mostly due to spell sequencing. Those will be a lot less frequent once I get more used to playing the deck, and control in general.
I am gonna experiment with 1-2x Snapcaster Mage in place of the same number of Mission Briefing, but so far in this setup Briefing has been great.
Playtested a few games with a Search for Azcanta, and another game with 2x, and I just wasn't feeling it. Am I being crazy thinking it is too slow? I see a lot of people that consider it a staple, but then a lot of those same people are running 1 MB. The way they praise it and the number they run just never seems to match up, but maybe that's the point? Somebody teach me!
I would really like to add one more way to close out the game, even a 1x of a planeswalker would help I think. I tried Saheeli Rai again and it was okay but more often than not I wished it was something else. Ral Zarek was funny, but not potent enough to justify the include. Maybe a Chandra, Torch of Defiance? I tried Crackling Drake, and although it was always huge, it always felt a turn too slow, or would get chumped like crazy. That may be pretty skewed by the prevalence of flying with who I regularly playtest against (Humans, Soul Sisters, Spirits, U/R Faeries). The drake may be worth a revisit, as it counts cards exiled under scepter whether it is destroyed or not. Stormchaser Mage also felt like it fit a similar role.
TiTi and Young Pyro do a good job, but if I'm up against a lot of removal those are really just going to slow the game down and not finish it. March of the Machines can make some strong attackers with the help of Coating, but I either have to figure out a way to make that interaction better so I can use it to remove lands more often, or cut it.
If you are on saheeli and liquimetal coating already, altar of the brood creates an infinite mill combo.
whir of invention can help you tutor a 1-2 of. You can actually leave mana up to cast/bluff cryptic command and then just whir for the win at opponents eot if they tap out as 5 mana will let you play saheeli/coating in one turn to start the combo.
The package is very small for how much work you get out of it.
@mapccu : I liked the transformative sideboard with the Saheeli combo in it, with a Reckless Fireweaver as a backup for the Altar, but to get to it consistently it ended up taking up about 8 slots total. The recent playtests I've been doing I dropped the combo and used the SB for control options to strengthen the MB, but getting the infinite combo back in is definitely not out of the question if I can get the balance right.
I like Whir of Invention much better as the tutor for that package, since I was trying to do the same thing with Muddle the Mixture and it was a dead card in my hand pretty often since it could only tutor the Fireweaver and not the Altar, which meant I was running a ton of Altars to make up for it. I'll have to pay attention how often I get to UUU every game, since I need to know in case I can add Cryptic also.
The sideboard is still very much on the drawing board, so if I can solidify the mainboard some more so I don't need a full sideboard for counterspell/removal options I can go back to the infinite combo, which is really surprising if they board in removal for TiTi/YP after Game 1.
Never considered fireweaver as an altar replacement. Very glad I came here to check out your brew now ;).
I've toyed with an all in artifact heavy jeskai list with felidar guardian. What's good about fireweaver is a felidar guardian and phyrexian metamorph go infinite with the fireweaver or altar. Two felidar a go infinite with the altar only.
I've been very pleased with spellskite as a 2 of in the deck and karn, scion of urza is a monster with mox opal decks.
I'll have to try a more controlling shell because my list got freaking lit up at modern night running into hardened scales affinity and elves - which more control would have helped me a ton on.
Well I've been working on the deck a lot the last two months, and I made a lot of changes. I've brought it to FNM twice now, and the latest version did very well. I've tweaked it again since then, and I am very happy with where it is sitting.
Switching to be more proactive and dropping all the mainboard counterspells had a huge impact on the speed, resiliency, and fun of the deck. It is running pretty smoothly now, and I'm down to tweaking just 2-4 cards in the MB and SB to find what I like the most.
So this is a deck that I've been working on a lot lately that I am calling Argent Moon, and I wanted to get your guys' input.
One of my favorite cards in Magic is Liquimetal Coating, and I've always wanted to build a deck around it. I went through a bunch of iterations (mono-green/Gruul/Temur/Bant), before I settled on Izzet. After a bunch of clunkiness where I either got what I needed out early and won the war of attrition, and the next I lost very quickly having not had time to assemble the pieces, I realized I needed to go for a lot more control.
Adding Thing in the Ice/Awoken Horror gave me a great wincon, but I needed to actually make it to the point where I could use it as one. I liked the strength of Blue Moon, so I added that land package and Blood Moon, and the deck really turned a corner and started to perform much better
I feel like I'm on the right track here, as a kind of mix of Ponza and Blue Moon, but I don't have much experience with control at all, and have only been playing Modern for about 9 months, so my inexperience is really showing when it comes to some card choices. Let me know what you think, and if you have any ideas!
Here it is!
4 Delver of Secrets
1 Izzet Staticaster
3 Thing in the Ice
Instants (20)
4 Abrade
1 Izzet Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Logic Knot
4 Mission Briefing
4 Remand
2 Smash to Smithereens
1 Surgical Extraction
4 Serum Visions
Artifacts (4)
4 Liquimetal Coating
Enchantments (3)
2 Blood Moon
1 March of the Machines
Planeswalker (2)
2 Saheeli Rai
Lands (19)
1 Ghost Quarter
6 Island
1 Mountain
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
3 Altar of the Brood
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Blood Moon
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Reckless Fireweaver
1 Saheeli Rai
2 Shrapnel Blast
1 Vendilion Clique
The goal for the MB is to put down some early threats in Delver and Titi to wear down their life totals and protect me, or force answers, while I build up a boardstate that allows me to start taking out their lands for "free", one or two a turn or more.
I feel like I've refined the Liquimetal package down as far as it can go. Things like Splinter and Mycosynth Lattice, while very fun, aren't feasible in Modern. I think a 1/2-of of Surgical Extraction does the job of Splinter, but better. Cards like Abrade and Smash to Smithereens offer more impact and flexibility than a lot of the mono-green options. I do, however, miss having Green for Ancient Grudge, as that was a fantastic card, but I couldn't justify the splash for just a flashback cost.
March of the Machines adds a bit of inevitability to the combo, where tapping Liquimetal Coating each turn can effectively stall their boardstate and start to send it backwards. This combo also allows you to turn your own stuff into attackers, like Saheeli or the March itself. I like the idea of Myr Landshaper to pile on the removal, but it never felt that great in practice.
Blood Moon adds that last bit of control the deck needed that is hard for many opponent's deck to work their way out from under by itself, much less with land destruction thrown in too. Considering finding a spot for some Spreading Seas as well.
Sideboard has the two Saheeli infinite combos. This is a potential T3 win, and along with the rest of the deck is fairly resilient. Definitely a lot of room for improvement in the SB.
Let me know if you have any suggestions or criticisms! This is my first control deck so I have a lot to learn, and there is a ton of playtesting left, but I really feel like there is something here.
I am giving the Temur version another try, with a Delver shell because I still think that is super solid. I'll update this post when that has taken shape.
A recurring problem I was having was not having the spell density to consistently remove artifacts or creatures, or counter spells. Snapcaster Mage helped a little, but didn't seem that impactful (at least the way this deck was set up). Mission Briefing was a bit better (my only real draw sculpting), but then I lost board presence. If I boosted the number of raw spells I had, I made the creature base weaker, and had to cut into the Coating package. I didn't want to do any of those things.
In my frustration I added Isochron Scepters on a whim, and converted the spellbase to all instants under 2 cmc. What started as almost a joke turned into one of the strongest versions of this deck yet.
I carried over the Thing in the Ice from the old deck, as well as added Young Pyromancer which is an idea I got from some Blue Moon decks running around. Both proc often because the spells imprinted on the scepter are cast each time.
So not only is the deck stronger, it is also stupidly fun, which is about all I could ask for.
I removed the sideboard infinite combo because at ~8 cards it meant I was weakening the MB and SB just to include it.
I'm still working on the balance a bit, but I've already got a few playtests in and it is a pretty significant improvement over all the past versions of the deck. The spells are great on their own, but getting them on a scepter is even better. Not relying on the scepter means it isn't that big of a deal if it gets destroyed, but if I can protect it it just generates a ton of value.
Here's the newest revision!
3 Thing in the Ice
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Young Pyromancer
Instants (25)
4 Abrade
1 Argent Mutation
2 Boomerang
1 Izzet Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Mana Leak
4 Mission Briefing
3 Remand
1 Shrapnel Blast
2 Spell Snare
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Isochron Scepter
4 Liquimetal Coating
Enchantments (3)
2 Blood Moon
1 March of the Machines
Lands (18)
5 Island
1 Mountain
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
Here's some cards I think are sideboard worthy:
1 Blood Moon
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Cryptic Command
1 Delay
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Logic Knot
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Shattering Spree
1 Smash to Smithereens
1 Spellskite
1 Sun Droplet
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Vapor Snag
Burn is still a problem, but it seems like that is true for a lot of Blue Moon style decks. I had a ton of really close games against Spirits, and one game I won very handily, and this is a deck I've never beaten in Modern, not even a single game. A number of close games were decided by misplays on my part, mostly due to spell sequencing. Those will be a lot less frequent once I get more used to playing the deck, and control in general.
I am gonna experiment with 1-2x Snapcaster Mage in place of the same number of Mission Briefing, but so far in this setup Briefing has been great.
Playtested a few games with a Search for Azcanta, and another game with 2x, and I just wasn't feeling it. Am I being crazy thinking it is too slow? I see a lot of people that consider it a staple, but then a lot of those same people are running 1 MB. The way they praise it and the number they run just never seems to match up, but maybe that's the point? Somebody teach me!
I would really like to add one more way to close out the game, even a 1x of a planeswalker would help I think. I tried Saheeli Rai again and it was okay but more often than not I wished it was something else. Ral Zarek was funny, but not potent enough to justify the include. Maybe a Chandra, Torch of Defiance? I tried Crackling Drake, and although it was always huge, it always felt a turn too slow, or would get chumped like crazy. That may be pretty skewed by the prevalence of flying with who I regularly playtest against (Humans, Soul Sisters, Spirits, U/R Faeries). The drake may be worth a revisit, as it counts cards exiled under scepter whether it is destroyed or not. Stormchaser Mage also felt like it fit a similar role.
TiTi and Young Pyro do a good job, but if I'm up against a lot of removal those are really just going to slow the game down and not finish it. March of the Machines can make some strong attackers with the help of Coating, but I either have to figure out a way to make that interaction better so I can use it to remove lands more often, or cut it.
Let me know what you think!
whir of invention can help you tutor a 1-2 of. You can actually leave mana up to cast/bluff cryptic command and then just whir for the win at opponents eot if they tap out as 5 mana will let you play saheeli/coating in one turn to start the combo.
The package is very small for how much work you get out of it.
I like Whir of Invention much better as the tutor for that package, since I was trying to do the same thing with Muddle the Mixture and it was a dead card in my hand pretty often since it could only tutor the Fireweaver and not the Altar, which meant I was running a ton of Altars to make up for it. I'll have to pay attention how often I get to UUU every game, since I need to know in case I can add Cryptic also.
The sideboard is still very much on the drawing board, so if I can solidify the mainboard some more so I don't need a full sideboard for counterspell/removal options I can go back to the infinite combo, which is really surprising if they board in removal for TiTi/YP after Game 1.
I've toyed with an all in artifact heavy jeskai list with felidar guardian. What's good about fireweaver is a felidar guardian and phyrexian metamorph go infinite with the fireweaver or altar. Two felidar a go infinite with the altar only.
I've been very pleased with spellskite as a 2 of in the deck and karn, scion of urza is a monster with mox opal decks.
I'll have to try a more controlling shell because my list got freaking lit up at modern night running into hardened scales affinity and elves - which more control would have helped me a ton on.
2 Crackling Drake
4 Thing in the Ice
Planeswalker (1)
1 Ral, Izzet Viceroy
Instants (20)
4 Abrade
2 Burst Lightning
2 Echoing Truth
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Manamorphose
1 Mission Briefing
1 Shrapnel Blast
1 Smash to Smithereens
1 Surgical Extraction
4 Serum Visions
Artifacts (7)
3 Isochron Scepter
4 Liquimetal Coating
Enchantments (2)
2 Blood Moon
Lands (20)
7 Island
1 Mountain
3 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Apostle's Blessing
1 Blood Moon
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Shattering Spree
2 Spellskite
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Sweltering Suns
1 Vendilion Clique
Switching to be more proactive and dropping all the mainboard counterspells had a huge impact on the speed, resiliency, and fun of the deck. It is running pretty smoothly now, and I'm down to tweaking just 2-4 cards in the MB and SB to find what I like the most.
Let me know what you think!