My version is more WW, sorry if I am out of place but since the decklist is very similar and this is one of the most active topics around WW in the forum I still think it is the best place to discuss about it.
So, I agree the 2 CMC drop is one of the hardest spots, Thalia and Thalia lieutenants are the best, recently dropped Paladin en-vec from the main list to bring Auriok Champion, smoothing the mana curve and making the match vs grixis, jund and burn more favorable. (these are the most popular decks in my LGS FNM).
The main thing I have been trying to concentrate is playing creatures with protection, normally this kind of deck hits the opponent hard for the first 3 turns but then blockers and removal allow them to stabilize, protection allow for the last damage to come through, either mirran cursader, auriok champion or Brave the Elements which is one hell of a finisher most of the time.
Another card that I have liked a lot is Smuggler's copter, allows for some land filtering and the evasion is nice.
1Magic geek, from your list I took the idea of including Benalish marshal and so far it has been excelent.
My last FNM 3-1
2-1 vs Grixis
1st game 0-1, he opens with thoughtsize, then another one and death shadow next turn, the board gets kind of stale with some bloackers on my side but he ultimately counters my Elspeth and a mirran crusader and gives trample to his Death shadow.
2nd Game, 1-1, Auriok Champion comes in to play earlier and makes the game very hard for him, he scoops.
3rd Game, he opens up with grim lavamancer, since it can kill all my early threats I had to Path it, later another auriok champion closes the game
2-0 vs some green/white combo deck, I don't know the name of this deck but it makes some combo around sun titan creating lots of tokens.
In both games my deck is much faster and I drew mirran crusader to finish it.
0-2 vs Mono white death and taxes
In both games the combination of Eldrazi displacer and big thalia is just too much, I made some errors not taking his eldrazi temple sooner with my ghost quarter and in the 2nd game I brought Auriok champion to exploit displacer effect, it was working well but I missed around 5 triggers and lost the race, lessons learned about paying more attention to Auriok champion triggers.
2-0 vs Jund Soldier of the pantheon shines in this matchup since a few of their spells are multicolored, along mirran crusader he couldn't contest the board in both games.
Since tribal decks are popular on my meta (not only eldrazi but also humans, spirits and even vampires) I am including riders of gavony to close out games with stale board states, hope to be able to test them this FNM.
Also considering bringing wither WLL or hero of bladehold for Elspeth as the finisher.
Also considering going green for Gaddock since Tron has been my worst matchup, or maybe blue for meddling mage and the new BW legend.
Finally, what do you think of aether vial for this deck?
Hey Login, No problem, and welcome.
I like your deck.
It has a whole lot of strong cards that I have played, a couple I have thought pretty hard about, and a couple of wacky ones.
It seems a lot more focused on humans, and for me, that means I would go all in.
When I was playing Mono white humans, I think I was playing 37 humans, not 23.
All the other stuff is completely reasonable other stuff to be playing. Except reciprocate.
@Magic geek, thanks for the analysis and suggestions.
I for sure try dropping honor of the pure and bringing Benalish marshal.
Reciprocate is there because I don't have the 4th path currently, might even cut it now and add another creature.
Definitely looking into tweaking the one drops, more Kytheons does seem the way to go.
Other cards I just started testing yesterday: Hero of bladehold, but I just don't like that as a 4 drop doesn't have an instant impact on the board, unlike Elspeth, Knight-errant which gives evasion and buffs to a creature, continues to apply pressure and create a new thing to respond to. But after some testing Hero of bladehold is very impressive if I get to attack with it.
Also, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, seems quite versatile to create more board presence or just getting an anthem right away for lethal.
Anyway, control isn't very popular in my meta and I normally beat UW control even after a terminus (i am careful not to overcommit), the more common board wipe is engineered explosives in the MU vs tron, I already sideboard damping matrix or suppression field vs them but it is still my worst MU, because of how fast explosives is Proclamation of rebirth looks like a very good card to play immediately after EE.
Game 1 was close, he had Myr Superion with equipped Basilisk Collar smashing me every turn being double Exalted with 2 Hierarchs. Fortunately until then I've made quite strong force. 2 Marshals, 2 WLL and Dryad went bonkers. After some time I drew Selfless Spirit and Spectral Procession afterwards and finished him off from air.
Game 2 wasn't even close. Little Thalia + Stony Silence and he was pretty much done as he was on 4 mana and couldn't cast CoCo while I was amassing my force.
Match 2 vs Jeskai Control - won 2:0
Game 1 went smooth. Pushed on turn 5 with 4 dudes and when he wanted to Bolt my Marshal I flipped WLL with Windbrisk and won. 2 Selfless Spirits were on board too prefenting him from wiping me with Supreme Verdict.
Game 2 I went turn 1 Dryad, turn 2 little Thalia, slowed him down a lot. Electrolyze on my little Thalia just to be prevented by Eiganjo was pure gold. He drew a lot of removal too though and after 5 turns we went on topdeck war again. Big Thalia was topdecked and defended with everything I got, she dealt like 15 dmg. Again Lightning Bolted her just to be prevented by Eiganjo. I guess 1st time wasn't enough to learn.
After that we played 2 more casual games, all stomped easly. Stuff like Pathing my own SotP so Cryptic Commandwouldn't resolve were fun.
Match 3 vs Storm, lost 1:2
Game 1 he went all defence killing my Dryad with turn 2 Grapeshot and making 6 goblins with Empty the Warrens early on. I just couldn't break through and in ~5-6 turn he combo'ed off.
Game 2 was a stomp from my side, little Thalia was on board and he couldn't get rid of her successfully preventing him to go off.
Game 3 he killed me on turn 3. Bonkers. I kept hand with no Dryads and little Thalias but with 2 SotP, I hoped their lifegained from Manamorphose should be enough, and they actually got me 8 life. Wasn't enough though. Need to mulligan vs this deck more agressivelly. Lesson learned.
This deck is so fun! The more I play it the more I realise you are right about it. Most of the time at least.
I still think Wilt-Leaf Liege isn't good enough to be in this deck. The only way I'm guaranteed to discard her is very unusual and while being 4 mana 4/4 anthem is strong it never felt gamebreaking. Leonin-Relic Warders were subbed in G2 and G3 and in G1 one of them just ate a single Myr Superion. Not that gamebreaking, didn't fight against any sort of prison deck. By himself he really didn't do any relevant beating. I really believe that artifact/enchantment removal is needed in this deck but this guy isn't what's needed here. Probably I'll swap him.
Problem is I still don't see any good stuff to swap them for right now. Hero of Bladehold was suggested by the Jeskai player but he doesn't impact the board immediatly and that sucks. Ranger of Eos is my idea but there aren't any crucial 1 drops to make it relevant. Thought about going Gideon package as Kytheon is already in the deck and they are decent beaters that have some nice utility and relevant abilities, mostly about Gideon of the Trials - he's strong against combo decks and shuts down a relevant beater. Gideon, Ally of Zendikar is very flexible being either an anthem or token maker but he's more questionable.
I'll try 1 Gideon of the Trials in spot of 1 WLL next friday. Leonin Relic-Warder has to stay for now.
OK so all my posts are deleted because I live in retarded region. Whatever.
Problem is I still don't see any good stuff to swap them for right now. Hero of Bladehold was suggested by the Jeskai player but he doesn't impact the board immediatly and that sucks. Ranger of Eos is my idea but there aren't any crucial 1 drops to make it relevant. Thought about going Gideon package as Kytheon is already in the deck and they are decent beaters that have some nice utility and relevant abilities, mostly about Gideon of the Trials - he's strong against combo decks and shuts down a relevant beater. Gideon, Ally of Zendikar is very flexible being either an anthem or token maker but he's more questionable.
I'll try 1 Gideon of the Trials in spot of 1 WLL next friday. Leonin Relic-Warder has to stay for now.
In case you didn't know you have to make a post with your name in a dedicated topic about account migration.
As for the 4 drop on the deck, I also tested Hero of bladehold and while it is very powerful if you get to untap and by that point of the game it is hard for them to get rid of (bolt doesn't kill it and they probably already used some removal) it is still a whole turn to come "online".
The options I am testing and playing in that slot are: Elspeth, Knight-errant and Gideon, Ally of zendikar, and I am liking elspeth more, both can impact the board immediately, both pumping your creatures or creating a creature, but if I want to get through with the last points of damage Elspeth is better because of the evasion and it tick up, gideon dies in that moment if you ulti,
MU 1 vs GDS 0-2, I play this guy for the last 3 weeks and for the frist time I lost, I kept a hand with one land and 4 1 drops, but well I must learn not to try it ever again.
Second game I lost to the spell that gives DS trample.
MU 2 vs The rock (GB control) 2-0, both games I drew Mirran crusader and it was fast.
Mu 3 vs Grixis )without DS) 2-0, a more traditional U control deck, lots of counters and damnation, but I eventually played elspeth in game 1 after his lotV made me sacrifice an Auriok Champion and the token soldiers just were too many for him to respond.
Game 2 went quite fast, with a very agroo hand with me.
MU 4 vs Reanimator 2-0 (goryos vengance, emrakul, griselband) both games little thalia anooyed him a lot, in the frist game he killed one and I frew a second one, and in the second game it was protected twice with brave the elements.
So, while my meta is heavy on black decks and II ran Auriok champion Main it didn't had a great impact, I think it is best when it comes out of the sideboard since it just slows me in game one, I am going to replace it for the time being with Gather the townsfolk. BUt I will also try getting one kytheon and one student of warfare.
Mutavault underperformed also, and a couple of games it got in the way of white mana for benalish marshal, I am removing it.
Benalish marshal is great, and while testing I was using 3 and 1 honor of the pure I soon realized that sometime I need HotP because of the cost, so it is now 3-2 split.
I tried militia bugler, not bad, but it is one more than Smuggler copter and I feel creatures costing 3 have to have a big impact on the board, maybe I am biased bow but the copter is an annoying creature that is not that easy to interact with.
I want to try Legion's landing here, the lack of synergy is a concern but getting it to flip becoming the 4th mana would make the deck so consistent (like the mono W decks I am playing in Arena). Love the card and is one very cheap way to get a token producing land without almost any drawback.
Given how heavy my meta is on black I am even considering including Nephalia Academy instead of ghost quarter, would really mess with the LotV and the rest of the discard spells. But maybe I am just desperate for a Land that brings some value instead of just being a land, shame that Westvale Abbey is so expensive to activate, the human tokens could come handy.
1st match vs Izzet Phoenix, lost 0:2
Both games he had perfect hand. In 1st he had flipped Thing and 2 phoenixes in turn 4. My turn 1 Dryad didn't help much.
Game 2 he pulled 2x Anger of the Gods. That sucked so hard. His 2 Crackling Drakes eventually wrecked me. 2 Dryads didn't help here neither as Drakes get power from exiled spells too... So fair.
Overall I think this deck is way too busted and even though I have maindeck Thalia and Dryad it wasn't enough to stop him - it simply does too much and does it at least good. I think it's time to play 2 maindeck Ethersworn Canonists.
2nd match vs Storm, won 2:1
The same guy as before, this time I ended up victorious.
Game 1 Dryad + little Thalia was enough for him to anything.
Game 2 I got 2 Martyrs and both gained me 15 life each. Still wasn't enough as opponent got 2 Goblin Electromancers and comboed for over 60 dmg. Nice!
Game 3 I don't remember, I just won. Nothing spectacular here.
3rd match vs BR Reanimator, lost 1:2. This is the deck. Literally the same list. And it would've been easly won if not for the bad luck...
Game 1 he got his Emrakul from Goryo's Vengeance on turn 3, burned me down to 1 life and with literally no board and him with no cards in hand we started topdeck wars. Eventually I got 2 lands and started to drop stuff. It worked. I won.
Game 2 same stuff, Emrakul turn 3 and beats with Bloodghast. Not much to do from my side.
Game 3 was cancer. First 26 cards I got 18 lands! I even GQ'd my own Plains to thin my deck and yet it wasn't enough, 6-7 lands from top and just single little Thalia doing beats. I had this luck that my opponent had mana screw and couldn't do much for ~3-4 turns. If only I could draw a single threat I would've been victorious. Magic of Magic. That game gave me cancer.
4th match vs mono U Tron, won 2:0
Both games went smooth, this deck was too fast for him to handle. Not much to talk about here.
OK so a lot of changes and things to try compared to the version before. Honor of the Pure sucks. A whole turn to do nothing was terrible. If it was played it either didn't matter or was a win-more. Another 2 drop would be much better. Out. Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit didn't see play even once. Sucks that tokens don't activate her. She'll sit in the deck untill she sees play. Gideon of the Trials was played in game 2 vs Phoenix and forced opponent to burn 2 spells, nothing else. He as well didn't have his time to shine but I want to give him more tries. Leonin Relic-Warder had no targets in any match. Nothing spectacular. I'm afraid to fully remove him from the deck though.
Rest of the cards did the job well. Not gonna change much. Maybe except White Shield Crusader. Still I don't have 3rd Selfless Spirit though. Totally needed.
@mgic geek, have you tried Brimaz, King of oreskos? the body is quite big for 3 mana, but wonder if the abilities are good enough to closeout the game.
I already suspect that anafenza and mikaeus are too slow for the modern format, nevertheless I am going to try collective effort, the versatility might come handy.
"Only Selfless Spirit is a top tier, premium card. Selfless protects the entire team, and has an evasion ability that can be used immediately. That is what I mean.
All the other cards above are individuals that might have a group effect on some later turn."
I'd say all the other cards are interchangable depending on metagame. Ethersworn Canonist, Leonin Relic-Warder, White Shield Crusader etc. should be put into the deck depending on what's being played.
That's also why I believe Tithe Taker would be decent. He hurts reactive decks and he's resilient. Not many hatebears leave a flying body after they die. I really like him.
"Ethersworn Canonist can be a completely unreasonable card, against the right decks.
Same with WS Crusader, (Think Death Shadow), but the difference is that the pump knight can be an evasive killer. Unfortunately, I just don't need his ability enough at the moment. Maybe I am just not playing against control enough."
I think that Canonist is actually very reasonable choice with Izzet Phoenix being hot deck right now. White Shield Crusader can be maindeckable if Death's Shadow or Rock emerges big. Phyrexian Revoker can screw up f.e. Abzan Company, any Aether Vial deck, all parts of Lantern Control, etc. But maybe Pithing Needle or Sorcerous Spyglass may prove better.
Maybe I could even consider playing Remorseful Cleric if some GY decks would be prevalent. If he doesn't have use he's still 2/1 flyer for 2. Better than 2/2 without flying I think.
Other than that Knight of the Holy Nimbus was something I considered to test.
Those cards could be sideboarded for other specific hate cards. That's what White based aggro decks do best - put pressure having some innate hate that can be easly adapted depending on what opponent is playing. I think that, other than putting some hard and consistent beats, this attribute of White should be abused used when building this deck.
"Since you guys are only playing White, have you thought about Leonin Arbiter?
LeoA interferes pretty regularly with all sorts of decks.
Path to Exile becomes better too."
Yeah, I thought about him.
He isn't that impressive if just hardcasted. Very easy to play around if just sitting like duck and not GQ'ing their lands.
His power comes from Vialing it making enemy lose 1 life and sac his own land.
He can annoy CoCo decks, Tron and... What else cares about searching it's own library that doesn't have a removal nowadays?
Putting him in deck turns off Flagstones. This in turn makes WWW cards harder to cast with 4 GQ's in deck. And playing Leo without GQ is heresy.
So it makes deck better vs Tron but worse vs rest if you play with GQ because it taxes on deck's flexibility. And without GQ it's really not that much better vs Tron than the current version.
All's theory because I didn't try him in this deck. But thought about it and I don't like him. I prefer Flagstones + GQ package and some other threat instead of him.
Tithe Taker doeesn't seems as goodd as Grand Abolisher, and that one ddoesn't see much play but might be worth trying
Unlike Abolisher, Taker leaves a flying body which makes him better against removal. This is big advantage making him better all around card and maindeckable material while Abolisher is just heavy taxer that doesn't fit vs all decks. I'd rather say that he's weaker Voice of Resurgence and would make comparisons to this card. And we all know how strong Voice is.
BTW I had some testing vs Grixis Death's Shadow and had 3 WLL's. That was magnificent
---
Next week I'm going for a bigger Modern tournament and I want to pilot this deck:
I think this deck is settled for me already. Only thing to test is Tithe Takers, but I'm confident about this guy, and the amount of Leonin Relic-Warders.
After some thinking I decided to drop Gideon of the Trials. +1 never proved relevant, his 4/4 body was used maybe once to push enemy, and his emblem was irrelevant in games I played. Sure, it wins against some decks, that are niche at this moment, but most of the time it just stops other decks for 1 turn and nothing else. I thought it could be great vs combo decks, especially when I have Kytheon, but he isn't flipping that often unfortunately.
Only thing I consider is playing with Ethersworn Canonists - 2 in main in the spot of 1 Tithe Taker and 1 Leonin Relic-Warder and 2 in side instead of Mirran Crusaders.
Also SB is something to think about yet. Martyr of Sands was more playable than Kor Firewalker in more matchups and it fills the same role. I want to find something better than Mirran Crusader as his prot G was never that useful - maybe Canonists, maybe Wrath of God, maybe Paladin en-Vec/Fiendslayer Paladin (prolly 1st is better) or maybe something else. Any ideas?
This is the version I am running:
1 Kytheon, Hero of Akros
1 Student of Warfare
4 Champion of the Parish
3 Thraben Inspector
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Auriok Champion
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Benalish Marshal
2 Honor of the Pure
Artifact
2 Smuggler's Copter
Instant
1 Reciprocate
3 Path to Exile
4 Brave the Elements
Land
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Shefet Dunes
1 Mutavault
15 Plains
Planeswalker
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Auriok Champion
1 Stillmoon Cavalier
3 Riders of Gavony
2 Rest in Peace
1 Damping Matrix
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Damping Sphere
So, I agree the 2 CMC drop is one of the hardest spots, Thalia and Thalia lieutenants are the best, recently dropped Paladin en-vec from the main list to bring Auriok Champion, smoothing the mana curve and making the match vs grixis, jund and burn more favorable. (these are the most popular decks in my LGS FNM).
The main thing I have been trying to concentrate is playing creatures with protection, normally this kind of deck hits the opponent hard for the first 3 turns but then blockers and removal allow them to stabilize, protection allow for the last damage to come through, either mirran cursader, auriok champion or Brave the Elements which is one hell of a finisher most of the time.
Another card that I have liked a lot is Smuggler's copter, allows for some land filtering and the evasion is nice.
1Magic geek, from your list I took the idea of including Benalish marshal and so far it has been excelent.
My last FNM 3-1
2-1 vs Grixis
1st game 0-1, he opens with thoughtsize, then another one and death shadow next turn, the board gets kind of stale with some bloackers on my side but he ultimately counters my Elspeth and a mirran crusader and gives trample to his Death shadow.
2nd Game, 1-1, Auriok Champion comes in to play earlier and makes the game very hard for him, he scoops.
3rd Game, he opens up with grim lavamancer, since it can kill all my early threats I had to Path it, later another auriok champion closes the game
2-0 vs some green/white combo deck, I don't know the name of this deck but it makes some combo around sun titan creating lots of tokens.
In both games my deck is much faster and I drew mirran crusader to finish it.
0-2 vs Mono white death and taxes
In both games the combination of Eldrazi displacer and big thalia is just too much, I made some errors not taking his eldrazi temple sooner with my ghost quarter and in the 2nd game I brought Auriok champion to exploit displacer effect, it was working well but I missed around 5 triggers and lost the race, lessons learned about paying more attention to Auriok champion triggers.
2-0 vs Jund
Soldier of the pantheon shines in this matchup since a few of their spells are multicolored, along mirran crusader he couldn't contest the board in both games.
Since tribal decks are popular on my meta (not only eldrazi but also humans, spirits and even vampires) I am including riders of gavony to close out games with stale board states, hope to be able to test them this FNM.
Also considering bringing wither WLL or hero of bladehold for Elspeth as the finisher.
Also considering going green for Gaddock since Tron has been my worst matchup, or maybe blue for meddling mage and the new BW legend.
Finally, what do you think of aether vial for this deck?
I like your deck.
It has a whole lot of strong cards that I have played, a couple I have thought pretty hard about, and a couple of wacky ones.
It seems a lot more focused on humans, and for me, that means I would go all in.
When I was playing Mono white humans, I think I was playing 37 humans, not 23.
All the other stuff is completely reasonable other stuff to be playing. Except reciprocate.
I for sure try dropping honor of the pure and bringing Benalish marshal.
Reciprocate is there because I don't have the 4th path currently, might even cut it now and add another creature.
Definitely looking into tweaking the one drops, more Kytheons does seem the way to go.
Other cards I just started testing yesterday: Hero of bladehold, but I just don't like that as a 4 drop doesn't have an instant impact on the board, unlike Elspeth, Knight-errant which gives evasion and buffs to a creature, continues to apply pressure and create a new thing to respond to. But after some testing Hero of bladehold is very impressive if I get to attack with it.
Also, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, seems quite versatile to create more board presence or just getting an anthem right away for lethal.
yes I have been considering some tech vs board wipes, eerie interlude(I already have it) because it is effective vs terminus and settle the wreckage, or immortal servitude. Hadn't had the chance to test them.
Anyway, control isn't very popular in my meta and I normally beat UW control even after a terminus (i am careful not to overcommit), the more common board wipe is engineered explosives in the MU vs tron, I already sideboard damping matrix or suppression field vs them but it is still my worst MU, because of how fast explosives is Proclamation of rebirth looks like a very good card to play immediately after EE.
I never have the mana.
Selfless Spirit is better, and cheaper.
Except, maybe, against terminus.
Another FNM, another games, this time went 2/1 with this variation:
1x Isamaru, Hound of Konda
3x Kytheon, Hero of Akros
1x Legion's Landing
4x Soldier of the Pantheon
3x Leonin Relic-Warder
2x Selfless Spirit
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3x White Shield Crusader
2x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4x Wilt-Leaf Liege
4x Spectral Procession
1x Eiganjo Castle
4x Flagstones of Trokair
4x Ghost Quarter
8x Plains
2x Shefet Dunes
3x Windbrisk Heights
2x Kataki, War's Wage
2x Kor Firewalker
4x Path to Exile
2x Rest in Peace
2x Stillmoon Cavalier
2x Stony Silence
Match 1 vs some wacky Bant Toolbox - won 2:0
This guy always plays this deck, it's some weird homebrew Collected Company toolbox with Birds of Paradise, Noble Hierarchs, Spell Quellers, Myr Superions, Knight of Autumns, Chord of Callings, Whir of Inventions and Trinket Mages that looks for stuff like Engineered Explosives, Walking Ballista and Basilisk Collar. Also has Pili-Pala and Grand Architect as one of the win cons. Just because.
Game 1 was close, he had Myr Superion with equipped Basilisk Collar smashing me every turn being double Exalted with 2 Hierarchs. Fortunately until then I've made quite strong force. 2 Marshals, 2 WLL and Dryad went bonkers. After some time I drew Selfless Spirit and Spectral Procession afterwards and finished him off from air.
Game 2 wasn't even close. Little Thalia + Stony Silence and he was pretty much done as he was on 4 mana and couldn't cast CoCo while I was amassing my force.
Match 2 vs Jeskai Control - won 2:0
Game 1 went smooth. Pushed on turn 5 with 4 dudes and when he wanted to Bolt my Marshal I flipped WLL with Windbrisk and won. 2 Selfless Spirits were on board too prefenting him from wiping me with Supreme Verdict.
Game 2 I went turn 1 Dryad, turn 2 little Thalia, slowed him down a lot. Electrolyze on my little Thalia just to be prevented by Eiganjo was pure gold. He drew a lot of removal too though and after 5 turns we went on topdeck war again. Big Thalia was topdecked and defended with everything I got, she dealt like 15 dmg. Again Lightning Bolted her just to be prevented by Eiganjo. I guess 1st time wasn't enough to learn.
After that we played 2 more casual games, all stomped easly. Stuff like Pathing my own SotP so Cryptic Commandwouldn't resolve were fun.
Match 3 vs Storm, lost 1:2
Game 1 he went all defence killing my Dryad with turn 2 Grapeshot and making 6 goblins with Empty the Warrens early on. I just couldn't break through and in ~5-6 turn he combo'ed off.
Game 2 was a stomp from my side, little Thalia was on board and he couldn't get rid of her successfully preventing him to go off.
Game 3 he killed me on turn 3. Bonkers. I kept hand with no Dryads and little Thalias but with 2 SotP, I hoped their lifegained from Manamorphose should be enough, and they actually got me 8 life. Wasn't enough though. Need to mulligan vs this deck more agressivelly. Lesson learned.
This deck is so fun! The more I play it the more I realise you are right about it. Most of the time at least.
I still think Wilt-Leaf Liege isn't good enough to be in this deck. The only way I'm guaranteed to discard her is very unusual and while being 4 mana 4/4 anthem is strong it never felt gamebreaking.
Leonin-Relic Warders were subbed in G2 and G3 and in G1 one of them just ate a single Myr Superion. Not that gamebreaking, didn't fight against any sort of prison deck. By himself he really didn't do any relevant beating. I really believe that artifact/enchantment removal is needed in this deck but this guy isn't what's needed here. Probably I'll swap him.
Problem is I still don't see any good stuff to swap them for right now. Hero of Bladehold was suggested by the Jeskai player but he doesn't impact the board immediatly and that sucks. Ranger of Eos is my idea but there aren't any crucial 1 drops to make it relevant. Thought about going Gideon package as Kytheon is already in the deck and they are decent beaters that have some nice utility and relevant abilities, mostly about Gideon of the Trials - he's strong against combo decks and shuts down a relevant beater. Gideon, Ally of Zendikar is very flexible being either an anthem or token maker but he's more questionable.
I'll try 1 Gideon of the Trials in spot of 1 WLL next friday.
Leonin Relic-Warder has to stay for now.
In case you didn't know you have to make a post with your name in a dedicated topic about account migration.
As for the 4 drop on the deck, I also tested Hero of bladehold and while it is very powerful if you get to untap and by that point of the game it is hard for them to get rid of (bolt doesn't kill it and they probably already used some removal) it is still a whole turn to come "online".
The options I am testing and playing in that slot are: Elspeth, Knight-errant and Gideon, Ally of zendikar, and I am liking elspeth more, both can impact the board immediately, both pumping your creatures or creating a creature, but if I want to get through with the last points of damage Elspeth is better because of the evasion and it tick up, gideon dies in that moment if you ulti,
As for my FNM, I played this deck:
1 Kytheon, Hero of Akros
1 Student of Warfare
4 Champion of the Parish
3 Thraben Inspector
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
2 Auriok Champion
2 Mirran Crusader
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
3 Benalish Marshal
1 Militia Bugler
2 Honor of the Pure
Artifact
1 Smuggler's Copter
Instant
3 Path to Exile
4 Brave the Elements
Planeswalker
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Land
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Shefet Dunes
1 Mutavault
15 Plains
2 Auriok Champion
1 Stillmoon Cavalier
3 Riders of Gavony
2 Rest in Peace
1 Damping Matrix
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Damping Sphere
I went 3-1.
MU 1 vs GDS 0-2, I play this guy for the last 3 weeks and for the frist time I lost, I kept a hand with one land and 4 1 drops, but well I must learn not to try it ever again.
Second game I lost to the spell that gives DS trample.
MU 2 vs The rock (GB control) 2-0, both games I drew Mirran crusader and it was fast.
Mu 3 vs Grixis )without DS) 2-0, a more traditional U control deck, lots of counters and damnation, but I eventually played elspeth in game 1 after his lotV made me sacrifice an Auriok Champion and the token soldiers just were too many for him to respond.
Game 2 went quite fast, with a very agroo hand with me.
MU 4 vs Reanimator 2-0 (goryos vengance, emrakul, griselband) both games little thalia anooyed him a lot, in the frist game he killed one and I frew a second one, and in the second game it was protected twice with brave the elements.
So, while my meta is heavy on black decks and II ran Auriok champion Main it didn't had a great impact, I think it is best when it comes out of the sideboard since it just slows me in game one, I am going to replace it for the time being with Gather the townsfolk. BUt I will also try getting one kytheon and one student of warfare.
Mutavault underperformed also, and a couple of games it got in the way of white mana for benalish marshal, I am removing it.
Benalish marshal is great, and while testing I was using 3 and 1 honor of the pure I soon realized that sometime I need HotP because of the cost, so it is now 3-2 split.
I tried militia bugler, not bad, but it is one more than Smuggler copter and I feel creatures costing 3 have to have a big impact on the board, maybe I am biased bow but the copter is an annoying creature that is not that easy to interact with.
I want to try Legion's landing here, the lack of synergy is a concern but getting it to flip becoming the 4th mana would make the deck so consistent (like the mono W decks I am playing in Arena). Love the card and is one very cheap way to get a token producing land without almost any drawback.
Given how heavy my meta is on black I am even considering including Nephalia Academy instead of ghost quarter, would really mess with the LotV and the rest of the discard spells. But maybe I am just desperate for a Land that brings some value instead of just being a land, shame that Westvale Abbey is so expensive to activate, the human tokens could come handy.
I have already said all my perspectives....
1x Isamaru, Hound of Konda
3x Kytheon, Hero of Akros
1x Legion's Landing
4x Soldier of the Pantheon
1x Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
2x Leonin Relic-Warder
2x Selfless Spirit
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x White Shield Crusader
1x Gideon of the Trials
2x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
3x Wilt-Leaf Liege
2x Honor of the Pure
4x Spectral Procession
1x Eiganjo Castle
4x Flagstones of Trokair
4x Ghost Quarter
8x Plains
2x Shefet Dunes
3x Windbrisk Heights
1x Kataki, War's Wage
2x Martyr of Sands
2x Mirran Crusader
4x Path to Exile
2x Rest in Peace
1x Stillmoon Cavalier
1x Stony Silence
1x Thalia, Heretic Cathat
1st match vs Izzet Phoenix, lost 0:2
Both games he had perfect hand. In 1st he had flipped Thing and 2 phoenixes in turn 4. My turn 1 Dryad didn't help much.
Game 2 he pulled 2x Anger of the Gods. That sucked so hard. His 2 Crackling Drakes eventually wrecked me. 2 Dryads didn't help here neither as Drakes get power from exiled spells too... So fair.
Overall I think this deck is way too busted and even though I have maindeck Thalia and Dryad it wasn't enough to stop him - it simply does too much and does it at least good. I think it's time to play 2 maindeck Ethersworn Canonists.
2nd match vs Storm, won 2:1
The same guy as before, this time I ended up victorious.
Game 1 Dryad + little Thalia was enough for him to anything.
Game 2 I got 2 Martyrs and both gained me 15 life each. Still wasn't enough as opponent got 2 Goblin Electromancers and comboed for over 60 dmg. Nice!
Game 3 I don't remember, I just won. Nothing spectacular here.
3rd match vs BR Reanimator, lost 1:2.
This is the deck. Literally the same list. And it would've been easly won if not for the bad luck...
Game 1 he got his Emrakul from Goryo's Vengeance on turn 3, burned me down to 1 life and with literally no board and him with no cards in hand we started topdeck wars. Eventually I got 2 lands and started to drop stuff. It worked. I won.
Game 2 same stuff, Emrakul turn 3 and beats with Bloodghast. Not much to do from my side.
Game 3 was cancer. First 26 cards I got 18 lands! I even GQ'd my own Plains to thin my deck and yet it wasn't enough, 6-7 lands from top and just single little Thalia doing beats. I had this luck that my opponent had mana screw and couldn't do much for ~3-4 turns. If only I could draw a single threat I would've been victorious. Magic of Magic. That game gave me cancer.
4th match vs mono U Tron, won 2:0
Both games went smooth, this deck was too fast for him to handle. Not much to talk about here.
OK so a lot of changes and things to try compared to the version before.
Honor of the Pure sucks. A whole turn to do nothing was terrible. If it was played it either didn't matter or was a win-more. Another 2 drop would be much better. Out.
Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit didn't see play even once. Sucks that tokens don't activate her. She'll sit in the deck untill she sees play.
Gideon of the Trials was played in game 2 vs Phoenix and forced opponent to burn 2 spells, nothing else. He as well didn't have his time to shine but I want to give him more tries.
Leonin Relic-Warder had no targets in any match. Nothing spectacular. I'm afraid to fully remove him from the deck though.
Rest of the cards did the job well. Not gonna change much. Maybe except White Shield Crusader. Still I don't have 3rd Selfless Spirit though. Totally needed.
Next time I will try -2 Honor of the Pure, -1 White Shield Crusader, +2 Ethersworn Canonist, +1 Selfless Spirit
Probably will swap Martyr of Sands for Kor Firewalker.
Yeah. That seems good.
I already suspect that anafenza and mikaeus are too slow for the modern format, nevertheless I am going to try collective effort, the versatility might come handy.
All the other cards above are individuals that might have a group effect on some later turn."
I'd say all the other cards are interchangable depending on metagame. Ethersworn Canonist, Leonin Relic-Warder, White Shield Crusader etc. should be put into the deck depending on what's being played.
That's also why I believe Tithe Taker would be decent. He hurts reactive decks and he's resilient. Not many hatebears leave a flying body after they die. I really like him.
"Ethersworn Canonist can be a completely unreasonable card, against the right decks.
Same with WS Crusader, (Think Death Shadow), but the difference is that the pump knight can be an evasive killer. Unfortunately, I just don't need his ability enough at the moment. Maybe I am just not playing against control enough."
I think that Canonist is actually very reasonable choice with Izzet Phoenix being hot deck right now.
White Shield Crusader can be maindeckable if Death's Shadow or Rock emerges big.
Phyrexian Revoker can screw up f.e. Abzan Company, any Aether Vial deck, all parts of Lantern Control, etc. But maybe Pithing Needle or Sorcerous Spyglass may prove better.
Maybe I could even consider playing Remorseful Cleric if some GY decks would be prevalent. If he doesn't have use he's still 2/1 flyer for 2. Better than 2/2 without flying I think.
Other than that Knight of the Holy Nimbus was something I considered to test.
Those cards could be sideboarded for other specific hate cards. That's what White based aggro decks do best - put pressure having some innate hate that can be easly adapted depending on what opponent is playing. I think that, other than putting some hard and consistent beats, this attribute of White should be abused used when building this deck.
"Since you guys are only playing White, have you thought about Leonin Arbiter?
LeoA interferes pretty regularly with all sorts of decks.
Path to Exile becomes better too."
Yeah, I thought about him.
He isn't that impressive if just hardcasted. Very easy to play around if just sitting like duck and not GQ'ing their lands.
His power comes from Vialing it making enemy lose 1 life and sac his own land.
He can annoy CoCo decks, Tron and... What else cares about searching it's own library that doesn't have a removal nowadays?
Putting him in deck turns off Flagstones. This in turn makes WWW cards harder to cast with 4 GQ's in deck. And playing Leo without GQ is heresy.
So it makes deck better vs Tron but worse vs rest if you play with GQ because it taxes on deck's flexibility. And without GQ it's really not that much better vs Tron than the current version.
All's theory because I didn't try him in this deck. But thought about it and I don't like him. I prefer Flagstones + GQ package and some other threat instead of him.
Unlike Abolisher, Taker leaves a flying body which makes him better against removal. This is big advantage making him better all around card and maindeckable material while Abolisher is just heavy taxer that doesn't fit vs all decks. I'd rather say that he's weaker Voice of Resurgence and would make comparisons to this card. And we all know how strong Voice is.
BTW I had some testing vs Grixis Death's Shadow and had 3 WLL's. That was magnificent
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Next week I'm going for a bigger Modern tournament and I want to pilot this deck:
1x Eiganjo Castle
4x Flagstones of Trokair
4x Ghost Quarter
8x Plains
2x Shefet Dunes
3x Windbrisk Heights
1-drops (13)
4x Dryad Militant
1x Isamaru, Hound of Konda
3x Kytheon, Hero of Akros
1x Legion's Landing
4x Soldier of the Pantheon
3x Leonin Relic-Warder
3x Selfless Spirit
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3x Tithe Taker
3-drops (6)
4x Benalish Marshal
2x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4-drops (3)
3x Wilt-Leaf Liege
6-drop (4)
4x Spectral Procession
2x Martyr of Sands
2x Mirran Crusader
4x Path to Exile
2x Rest in Peace
2x Stillmoon Cavalier
2x Stony Silence
1x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
I think this deck is settled for me already. Only thing to test is Tithe Takers, but I'm confident about this guy, and the amount of Leonin Relic-Warders.
After some thinking I decided to drop Gideon of the Trials. +1 never proved relevant, his 4/4 body was used maybe once to push enemy, and his emblem was irrelevant in games I played. Sure, it wins against some decks, that are niche at this moment, but most of the time it just stops other decks for 1 turn and nothing else. I thought it could be great vs combo decks, especially when I have Kytheon, but he isn't flipping that often unfortunately.
Only thing I consider is playing with Ethersworn Canonists - 2 in main in the spot of 1 Tithe Taker and 1 Leonin Relic-Warder and 2 in side instead of Mirran Crusaders.
Also SB is something to think about yet. Martyr of Sands was more playable than Kor Firewalker in more matchups and it fills the same role. I want to find something better than Mirran Crusader as his prot G was never that useful - maybe Canonists, maybe Wrath of God, maybe Paladin en-Vec/Fiendslayer Paladin (prolly 1st is better) or maybe something else. Any ideas?