Actually, if we're upping the land count, we might as well jam two Nissa, Voice of Zendikar in the board. She works wonders in the grindy matchups, both providing fodder for Pongify effects and antheming the squad to help punch through blockers.
Ceremonious is also for the Tron and Affinity matchups - not sure I like Natural State in a list that splashes Red. What enchantments are you scared of besides Blood Moon? In a pure U/G list I'd run 3-4. Perhaps you do need some GY hate - if so Relic is definetly a good option.
It's not useless, on the contrary - fixing or improving 2-3 common matchups is a perfectly viable strategy, whereas you would need 8-10 cards to be able to beat Bogles reliably post-board for instance.
Natural State is a very strong card, but crucially cannot deal with a resolved Chalice :-(
That being said, the sideboard is still a work in progress.
BI + TBR risk getting blown out, which I don't like. The Swan Song however, could actually do some work, hmm...
Chart a Course is probably not what the deck wants - thinking of going back to Atarka's.
The creatures in the deck tend to get removed and stonewalled (at least in my experience) so having the option to go over the top of blockers or get surprising amounts of burst damage is valuable.
Imagine the line of: end of turn fetching Dryad Arbor on an empty board (after you got board-wiped) and next turn untapping into Become Immense + Temur Battle Rage to deal 14 damage with the 1/1 land.
This is some serious reach for the deck.
BtW, Destructive Revelry is a much better SB card than Natural State by I don't know how important having answers to enchantments really is at the moment.
And ghostly prison. Natural State is a perfect card for generally any enchantment that is modern playable while also being a decent 2 cards against tron, affinity, etc.
Hey folks! Checking in having first seen the deck piloted by Sam Pardee over on CFB. As a long-time supporter of Mono-G Stompy as an effective budget strategy, this deck appealed to me immediately. I've sleeved it up and intend to jam some games with it soon - probably more as a fun deck than anything else, but that's what this deck delivers in spades!
Would Skyrider Elf be any good here? It has counters on an evasive body, and we'd have the option to make him bigger (in RUG, at least...). The evasion also makes pongifying their threats a more relevant play. Maybe as a 2-of? We have such explosive starts that a little extra reach seems good.
Another card I'm curious about here is Bone Picker. It's probably still too conditional, but it seems like this would be the deck for it if there is one.
i got some ideas that really catches me and i'm firmly believing, that these changes to the deck will bost it's power level.
First, let me introduce myself. I'm a Modern-Player for 4 1/2 years now. I've started with Modern goblins, followed the agressive path and came to Gruul Zoo, Naya 1-Drop Zoo to Burn. Then i've switched to Living End Combo and finally BW Eldrazi Processors. For now i'm grinding Bant Knightfall.
I've attended a lot of PPTQ's, PTQ's, local store tournaments, FNM's and recently won a 90 player modern tournament. I'm biased toward interactive Aggro / Tempo / Midrange strategies with heavy hitters. Currently Spell Queller, Collected Company and Knight of the Reliquary are my go-to threats and Bant is super-exciting, fun to play Wedge. RG SuperVengevine is another pet-deck of mine, which is super explosive and not-so-hard to pilote.
Here are my initial thoughts to the deck:
Before attending modern i've played Simic Blitz in RtR Standard with Cloudfin Raptor (there you got it). With my background in mind, i believe that the current iteration loads up on interaction wayyyyy too much.
A strong core consists of 28-30 Creatures (think of Merfolk, another Tempo-Shell) and between 8 to 12 interactive Spells (bear in mind: this is modern, not legacy!) To become a truly great deck Temur Zoo needs some more Creatures - and i got one for you that's fitting the bill
At first glance, it's not super-exciting. A 2/2 for GG that gets GG. Ok, the basic idea is to flood the board and present a reliable Turn 3 Kill. this is not so uncommon. I'll give you some scenarios where a T3 kill will be possible:
Scenario A:
Turn 1 - Raptor. Turn 2, fetch, Herbalists, 2x Narnam Renegade = 9 Power on board, swing for 2 = 18 life.
Turn 3 - Atarka's Command = Bolt (15 life) and pump, swing for 13 = 2 life.
Assuming your opponent has shocked once, he is dead.
Scenario B:
Turn 1 - Raptor. Turn 2, fetch, Herbalists, Strangleroot Geist, swing for 4 damage = 16 life.
Turn 3 - Atarka's Command, Bolt + pump. Swing for 9 + 3 damage = 4 life.
This isn't dead, but results in a T4 kill.
Scenario C:
Turn 1 - Experiment One. Turn 2 - fetch, Herbalists, E1 + Renegade = 9 power, swing for 3.
Turn 3- Command, Bolt and pump. Swing for 13 (!) damage, 16 damage total. Opponent is at 1 life now (if he didn't fetch).
The key card in all these scenarios is
The plan is to flood the board, evolve your creatures and pump for lethal (almost, back it up with Lightning Bolt).
For a more in-detail-sight, here are my oppinions about the maindeck:
Cut Pongify, Chart and Pierce. I know, they look terrific, but they don't advance your gameplan, neither your boardstate.
Add Atarka's Command - this one gives all the power to the explosive starts.
Added up, there shouldn't be more than 12 Instant / Sorceries that dilute your otherwise good gameplan. The synergy between Pong + Undying Creature X is sweet, but 8 is the perfect sweet spot (4 Lightning Bolt + Rapid Hybridization). When it doesn't come together, it's bad. Also leaving up U all the time to do some cute shenanigans lets you play completely off-curve - that is a weakness opponents tend to abuse.
Another upside of this change is the mana-requirements. Now we got only 8 U-Spells, which doesn't dilute our Landbase / let us pay too much life to get all teh colors we need.
The creature-suite looks good so far. Add Hidden Herbalists results in having 28 Creatures. I believe we got 1-2 Flex-Slots. I firmly believe Cards like Hooting Mandrills, Grim Lavamancer or teh good ol' Ghor-Clan Rampager as singleton gives us some kind of reach. Lavamancer can even ping Young Wolf, Mandrills trample over chump-blockers, Rampager too (and in addition is an ok midgame-hardcast Beater that evolves other creatures).
With these changes, teh manabase is easier and smoother. We have 8 U Spells, 8 R Spells and around 32 G Spells.
Start with 19 lands (no Dryad Arbor though) and fix slightly. The 3rd landdrop will be necessary sometimes, so maybe 20 is even better.
If you add 2 Rampager 20 Lands will be correct to be able to hardcast em.
Bonus Points
Now we have fixed the manabase and streamlined the deck, there's an opening that was a flaw beforehand: This deck could reliably board in Blood Moon. In grindy games you want to cut blue cards Cloudfin Raptor is super-bad against sth. like Abzan Midrange). As i'd tend to do so, Moon becomes a possible sideboard-plan.
Even Grixis (Control, Shadow, Delver) cannot overcome a once resolved Blood Moon. Because the Blue cards line up poorly against grind-stuff, they'll be boarded out. I'd like to play 2 Basic Forest to support this plan. If worse comes to worse, Lightning Bolt Geist to get a Revolt-trigger for Hidden Herbalists providing GG.
Midrange is propably the worst matchup for this deck (they got Discard, plenty of removal, Liliana, Lingering Souls) etc.). The plan is to further overload there removal. Kitchen Finks is the best card against removal. Also cards like Domri Rade or Nissa, steward of elements are ok'ish here.
Tormod's Crypt adds up to the synergy with Narnam Renegade and Herbalists for providing a Revolt-Trigger. I've played it very successful in Rg SuperVengevine against Storm-Combo. The other sideboard-cards could be Grudge, some counters (Pierce, Stubborn, Unified will, whatever) against Combo and maybe control.
I just picked this deck up on MTGO because I'm a sucker for Simic colors and and aggro + disruption game plan. Taking the initial 75 that beast_with_2_backs 5-0'd with (with some changes to the sideboard) through a Friendly league to get a feel for the play lines before I make any changes and take it into a Competitive league.
Would be interested to know if anyone has done any recent testing.
I started playing with the budget simic version earlier this year, and have slowly upgraded to a list similar to the initial 60 that beast_with_2_back posted. The most notable changes to my 60 are:
-2 Chart a Course
-1 Narnam Renegade
-1 Wooded Foothills
+2 Spell Pierce
+1 Vapor Snag
+1 Flame Slash
These changes lean the deck more towards an aggro/control strategy. I tried playing Chart a Course as well as Atarka's Command, and have found that the additional counterspells and creature answers are better in the matchups I've been in. Tapping out to Chart a Course late game was usually enough for the opponent to win, and instead having immediate answers to their plays has paid off for me in several games. Atarka's Command was also good at times, and I may go back to Atarka's being a one-of. Additionally, I've found that having 3-4 copies each of more targeted answers in the sideboard is better than having a bunch of 1- or 2-ofs.
I've had mixed success in my recent testing, mostly finishing 3-2 and occasionally 4-1 or 2-3. In any case, the deck is a blast to play and I'll be sticking to this archetype for a while.
narnam renegade is too good to give up in my opinion. It doesn't have the highest attack, but the deathtouch means it is almost always getting damage through or holding off larger creatures on the opponents side. Plus it gets your E1 to a 3/3
I've been playing a list that runs all 12 evolve creatures and it seems like pelt collector and experiment one are pretty much equal with the exception of a few specific situations. A 3/3 E1 can stand up to a bolt or assassin's trophy or a supreme verdict while pelt collector can not. However, Pelt collector is more likely to become a 4/4 with trample, but even with avatar of the resolute,vexing devil, and rhonas, the indomitable in the main, getting pelt collector to a 4/4 body has been pretty tough in my experience.
This is my current list, which I am experiencing mild success with:
The deck has become a bit more polarized with this current build. More super nutted openings of 8 power on turn 2, or a 4/4 pelt collector on turn 2 with your opponent at 16 or less, but also more mediocre or bad openings of 3 evolve creatures and no way to pump them.
Also the mana can be a bit wonky at times. Having a blue heavy hand and then drawing vexing devil feels kinda bad. As does needing all 3 colors when playing against burn or another zoo deck.
Still not sure if the red splash is optimal, 12 evolve creatures is probably too many, and bolt really needs to be in a list playing r/u/g. I'll probably shave some weaker creatures for more interaction since that is something the deck really needs.
Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated
narnam renegade is too good to give up in my opinion. It doesn't have the highest attack, but the deathtouch means it is almost always getting damage through or holding off larger creatures on the opponents side. Plus it gets your E1 to a 3/3
I've been playing a list that runs all 12 evolve creatures and it seems like pelt collector and experiment one are pretty much equal with the exception of a few specific situations. A 3/3 E1 can stand up to a bolt or assassin's trophy or a supreme verdict while pelt collector can not. However, Pelt collector is more likely to become a 4/4 with trample, but even with avatar of the resolute,vexing devil, and rhonas, the indomitable in the main, getting pelt collector to a 4/4 body has been pretty tough in my experience.
This is my current list, which I am experiencing mild success with:
Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated
Are you finding the lack of spells to be an issue? I feel like my version of the deck looks creature light by comparison. Also how does Rhonas feel for you so far? he seems like a pretty good way to push through the last bit of damage.
I've been running the Simic version of this deck because I don't have the budget for the RUG land base yet. And and after 3 outings with it, all of them have come back with prizing, and beating some notable, higher tier decks. I'd like to add the red splash in at some point when I can afford it, but I am not actually convinced it is better than staying Simic and running some remands/counters and some bounce or draw spells.
I'm also not very big on running 12 evolve creatures. In my test draws, I would constantly be stuck with a lot of 1/1's and no one to pump them. I honestly can't decide on Pelt Collector or Experiment One. Pelt Collector is obviously better if you run vexing devil, but otherwise, I feel like the two creatures are interchangeable, and Experiment One might actually be the overall stronger card without Devil in the deck. The regeneration seems much more likely to be used over the trample vs a lot of removal heavy decks. So far, I've only used Pelt Collector in tournament, but I think I might swap him out next time to see what I like better.
I also just now decided to run Narnam Renegade and bought 3 for the main deck, I'll see how they fair next week. I went much more permission heavy in my list since I was still just in Simic. And so far I've decided to go down 2 mana leak, and one vapor snag to fit the renegades in.
I real stupid part of me wants to include Psionic Blast in the main board as a 2 or 3 of. Where I normally think the card is not worth playing, there were many games where it would have won me the game outright if I had it over an extra mana leak. But I think the same could be said if I had a Vines of Vastwood or another pump spell instead.
I'm also not sure what form of card draw is best for this deck. So far, I am liking Serum Visions over Chart a Course, but I only run 4 fetches for now. The more fetches I run the more likely I'll shuffle the scry options away and the better Chart seems. I'm still pretty new to modern, I am not sure what other options are worth considering, but I do feel like I'd like to include some form of card draw to prevent gassing out.
Here was the List I ran the other day, and as mentioned I've already changed it for next week.
My sideboard is mostly just things like Damping sphere, Tormod's crypt and ceremonious rejection. I've been tinkering with Sundering Growth as well, but it might not be worth it compared to some other naturalize card, but the populate effect with pongify has made me curious to see if it is good enough to use. So far, I've never been able to populate when I had to use it, so I am still not sure how much helps over other cards.
A few oddball choices I've tried that went over better than I thought: Admiral's Order and briarhorn. Admiral's Order is a pretty unplayable card in most decks, formats, and circumstances, but given the aggressive nature of this deck, a one U hard counter during or after a combat phase has shown itself to be handy in a few games. I've removed it for mana leak for now, but I will likely still mess with it. Briarhorn worked pretty well, but felt a bit clunky too. I used it as a janky vexing devil at times, or just a body at other times. Overall, a medium level of effectiveness, and a good choice for people making budget versions of this deck.
Guess the interest in this deck isn't there right now for discussion. oh well. I am really enjoying the deck Simic version of the deck, but I have decided to drop the extra cash on the mana base to splash red. It seems pretty much strictly superior to running a simic variant on a budget. Too many times where bolt would have won me matches either with reach or by taking out a young pyromancer.
As much as I wanted psionic blast to work, the deck runs too close to the ground to make use of a 3 mana burn spell. I did take a few opponents by surprise with it though, which was pretty fun. But Char isn't really a viable card, even with the surprise factor of it being blue.
I tried a few card draw options, like serum visions and chart a course, but so far Smuggler's copter seems the most useful for trying to keep gas in the tank. It makes it easy to pitch lands, makes top decking 1/1's not so bad, and sometimes you can just use it to draw out enemy removal. Also, fetching a dryad arbor to pilot it is fun. I felt like generally, needing to use mana to fix my hand with serum vision or chart a course meant I was already losing and should have just mulled. While I like Serum over chart most of the time, the amount of fetches this deck runs ruins the setup of the scry too often. So I'd still go with chart over visions for this deck, but I'd go copter over both of them in the future, and would consider upping the count to 3, but making room for it is really tough, so I am going to likely keep it at 2 copies for now.
I am going to try running a few copies of Nissa, Voice of Zendikar and Inspiring Call in the sideboard vs UW control, as I got shut out pretty hard by a supreme verdict at FNM last night. And I foolishly took out my copies of Life Goes On because I assumed no one in my local area was playing burn, as I hadn't seen anyone run it all month. Sure enough I ran into two burn decks. That card seems pretty critical for the match up, as its a tight race without it.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to testing what the red splash can do for the board.
Hi! Don't know if anyone is playing this still but i think it's great fun. Hopefully (though probably not) wizards will spoil something good for simic in Ravnica, but in the meantime i thought i'd test perilous research, shapers' sanctuary, warriors' lesson and anything else i came across that will draw cards cheaper than chart a course or as an instant. For me it's been hardest to lose steam in turns 3 or 4, and smuggler's copter seems too much of an investment. My current test build:
Now i've tried some variations and to me pelt collector didn't really work. I never got it past 3/3 and missed the regeneration ability of experiment one (that was the closest and so the only one that i swapped, all other creatures seem to add versatility more, though admittedly i'm a very mediocre player and didn't try vexing devil. All tested card draws were disappointing until smuggler's copter. Perhaps i'm slow, but the copter was great at braking stalls and the draw/discard while blocking was great.
Seems to me that the deck would really need new strong 4-of to be consistently competitive, but nevermind that as long as games are rewarding.
I'm totally with you on Pelt collector. I've tried a lot of variations of the deck using him and he is just not good enough. You rarely get to 3 counters on him for the trample to be relevant. So the regeneration on Experiment One makes the deck much more resilient.
I've tried using both Collector and experiment in the same deck, and too often you will not be able to evolve either as you are stuck with too many 1/1 creatures in hand. I did, however, find Vexing Devil to be good, even without pelt collector. I am not entirely sold on Devil having a spot in the deck, but there were times, just doing 4 damage and evolving some creatures once was able to win some games at FNM.
I think there might be room for Incubation//Incongruity when the new set drops, but I am not entirely sure with will be worth it. It gives dig and an exiling pongify effect, so it definitely has the potential to fit in the deck.
I've also found faithless looting to be good for trying to avoid stalling out. Even though we don't get the benefits of playing things from the graveyard, it still does a great job of fixing your hand, and you can pitch lands to it later with flashback.
I am also currently experimenting with Izzet Charm, as this deck gets great use out of all of its abilities. But the casting cost feels a bit difficult at times. I've also had good results with Smuggler's copter as well. But sometimes it feels hard to get the value out of it compared to just a direct card draw.
So, i tried vexing devil and it wasn't so good, mainly as it gave the opponent a choice. At the moment i'm using 3 bolts mainboard with 1x legion loyalist to try and boost the endings. Also i added 2x relic of progenitus to the side and they have served me well.
How have u mulled? I've tried both keeping one landers when my hand has looked promising (several one drops like young wolf and pongify with dual land) and mulled to get the second hand, and seems i've been mostly punished by the latter decision. Is there a consensus about this?
So, i tried vexing devil and it wasn't so good, mainly as it gave the opponent a choice. At the moment i'm using 3 bolts mainboard with 1x legion loyalist to try and boost the endings. Also i added 2x relic of progenitus to the side and they have served me well.
How have u mulled? I've tried both keeping one landers when my hand has looked promising (several one drops like young wolf and pongify with dual land) and mulled to get the second hand, and seems i've been mostly punished by the latter decision. Is there a consensus about this?
Vexing devil is definitely questionable. Sometimes it feels amazing, and a lot of times I wish it was something else. I think it can work in the deck, but I do feel like I would probably rather find something better at this point.
I tend to mull only if I am lacking some interaction in the hand. I frequently haven't had a lot of trouble with one land hands, but certainly having two fetches feels a lot more comfortable.
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Natural State is a very strong card, but crucially cannot deal with a resolved Chalice :-(
That being said, the sideboard is still a work in progress.
The creatures in the deck tend to get removed and stonewalled (at least in my experience) so having the option to go over the top of blockers or get surprising amounts of burst damage is valuable.
Imagine the line of: end of turn fetching Dryad Arbor on an empty board (after you got board-wiped) and next turn untapping into Become Immense + Temur Battle Rage to deal 14 damage with the 1/1 land.
This is some serious reach for the deck.
BtW, Destructive Revelry is a much better SB card than Natural State by I don't know how important having answers to enchantments really is at the moment.
I used to run Destructive Revelry, until at some point I noticed that there were no enchantments worth destroying apart from Blood Moon...
Another card I'm curious about here is Bone Picker. It's probably still too conditional, but it seems like this would be the deck for it if there is one.
i got some ideas that really catches me and i'm firmly believing, that these changes to the deck will bost it's power level.
First, let me introduce myself. I'm a Modern-Player for 4 1/2 years now. I've started with Modern goblins, followed the agressive path and came to Gruul Zoo, Naya 1-Drop Zoo to Burn. Then i've switched to Living End Combo and finally BW Eldrazi Processors. For now i'm grinding Bant Knightfall.
I've attended a lot of PPTQ's, PTQ's, local store tournaments, FNM's and recently won a 90 player modern tournament. I'm biased toward interactive Aggro / Tempo / Midrange strategies with heavy hitters. Currently Spell Queller, Collected Company and Knight of the Reliquary are my go-to threats and Bant is super-exciting, fun to play Wedge. RG SuperVengevine is another pet-deck of mine, which is super explosive and not-so-hard to pilote.
Here are my initial thoughts to the deck:
Before attending modern i've played Simic Blitz in RtR Standard with Cloudfin Raptor (there you got it). With my background in mind, i believe that the current iteration loads up on interaction wayyyyy too much.
A strong core consists of 28-30 Creatures (think of Merfolk, another Tempo-Shell) and between 8 to 12 interactive Spells (bear in mind: this is modern, not legacy!) To become a truly great deck Temur Zoo needs some more Creatures - and i got one for you that's fitting the bill
At first glance, it's not super-exciting. A 2/2 for GG that gets GG. Ok, the basic idea is to flood the board and present a reliable Turn 3 Kill. this is not so uncommon. I'll give you some scenarios where a T3 kill will be possible:
Scenario A:
Turn 1 - Raptor. Turn 2, fetch, Herbalists, 2x Narnam Renegade = 9 Power on board, swing for 2 = 18 life.
Turn 3 - Atarka's Command = Bolt (15 life) and pump, swing for 13 = 2 life.
Assuming your opponent has shocked once, he is dead.
Scenario B:
Turn 1 - Raptor. Turn 2, fetch, Herbalists, Strangleroot Geist, swing for 4 damage = 16 life.
Turn 3 - Atarka's Command, Bolt + pump. Swing for 9 + 3 damage = 4 life.
This isn't dead, but results in a T4 kill.
Scenario C:
Turn 1 - Experiment One. Turn 2 - fetch, Herbalists, E1 + Renegade = 9 power, swing for 3.
Turn 3- Command, Bolt and pump. Swing for 13 (!) damage, 16 damage total. Opponent is at 1 life now (if he didn't fetch).
The key card in all these scenarios is
The plan is to flood the board, evolve your creatures and pump for lethal (almost, back it up with Lightning Bolt).
For a more in-detail-sight, here are my oppinions about the maindeck:
Cut Pongify, Chart and Pierce. I know, they look terrific, but they don't advance your gameplan, neither your boardstate.
Add Atarka's Command - this one gives all the power to the explosive starts.
Added up, there shouldn't be more than 12 Instant / Sorceries that dilute your otherwise good gameplan. The synergy between Pong + Undying Creature X is sweet, but 8 is the perfect sweet spot (4 Lightning Bolt + Rapid Hybridization). When it doesn't come together, it's bad. Also leaving up U all the time to do some cute shenanigans lets you play completely off-curve - that is a weakness opponents tend to abuse.
Another upside of this change is the mana-requirements. Now we got only 8 U-Spells, which doesn't dilute our Landbase / let us pay too much life to get all teh colors we need.
The creature-suite looks good so far. Add Hidden Herbalists results in having 28 Creatures. I believe we got 1-2 Flex-Slots. I firmly believe Cards like Hooting Mandrills, Grim Lavamancer or teh good ol' Ghor-Clan Rampager as singleton gives us some kind of reach. Lavamancer can even ping Young Wolf, Mandrills trample over chump-blockers, Rampager too (and in addition is an ok midgame-hardcast Beater that evolves other creatures).
With these changes, teh manabase is easier and smoother. We have 8 U Spells, 8 R Spells and around 32 G Spells.
Start with 19 lands (no Dryad Arbor though) and fix slightly. The 3rd landdrop will be necessary sometimes, so maybe 20 is even better.
If you add 2 Rampager 20 Lands will be correct to be able to hardcast em.
Bonus Points
Now we have fixed the manabase and streamlined the deck, there's an opening that was a flaw beforehand: This deck could reliably board in Blood Moon. In grindy games you want to cut blue cards Cloudfin Raptor is super-bad against sth. like Abzan Midrange). As i'd tend to do so, Moon becomes a possible sideboard-plan.
Even Grixis (Control, Shadow, Delver) cannot overcome a once resolved Blood Moon. Because the Blue cards line up poorly against grind-stuff, they'll be boarded out. I'd like to play 2 Basic Forest to support this plan. If worse comes to worse, Lightning Bolt Geist to get a Revolt-trigger for Hidden Herbalists providing GG.
Midrange is propably the worst matchup for this deck (they got Discard, plenty of removal, Liliana, Lingering Souls) etc.). The plan is to further overload there removal. Kitchen Finks is the best card against removal. Also cards like Domri Rade or Nissa, steward of elements are ok'ish here.
Tormod's Crypt adds up to the synergy with Narnam Renegade and Herbalists for providing a Revolt-Trigger. I've played it very successful in Rg SuperVengevine against Storm-Combo. The other sideboard-cards could be Grudge, some counters (Pierce, Stubborn, Unified will, whatever) against Combo and maybe control.
the deck
This is my initial idea:
4 Misty RAinforest
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
2 Botanical Sanctum
2 Stomping Ground
1 Copperline Gorge
2 Forest
1 Breeding Pool
4 Experiment One
4 Cloudfin Raptor
4 Young Wolf
4 Hidden Herbalists
4 Strangleroot Geist
3 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Narnam Renegade
1 Ghor-Clan Rampager
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Rapid Hybridization
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Atarka's Command
Rampager and Lavamancer are Flex-Slots, there could also be other stuff here (Flinthoof Boar, Mandrills, Fanatic of Xenagos etc.)
Green @ it's best
What do you cast with R?
Green @ it's best
Temur Zoo adds Evasion (Cloudfin Raptor) and resilience (Undying Creatures + removal).
Green @ it's best
Would be interested to know if anyone has done any recent testing.
-2 Chart a Course
-1 Narnam Renegade
-1 Wooded Foothills
+2 Spell Pierce
+1 Vapor Snag
+1 Flame Slash
These changes lean the deck more towards an aggro/control strategy. I tried playing Chart a Course as well as Atarka's Command, and have found that the additional counterspells and creature answers are better in the matchups I've been in. Tapping out to Chart a Course late game was usually enough for the opponent to win, and instead having immediate answers to their plays has paid off for me in several games. Atarka's Command was also good at times, and I may go back to Atarka's being a one-of. Additionally, I've found that having 3-4 copies each of more targeted answers in the sideboard is better than having a bunch of 1- or 2-ofs.
I've had mixed success in my recent testing, mostly finishing 3-2 and occasionally 4-1 or 2-3. In any case, the deck is a blast to play and I'll be sticking to this archetype for a while.
I've been playing a list that runs all 12 evolve creatures and it seems like pelt collector and experiment one are pretty much equal with the exception of a few specific situations. A 3/3 E1 can stand up to a bolt or assassin's trophy or a supreme verdict while pelt collector can not. However, Pelt collector is more likely to become a 4/4 with trample, but even with avatar of the resolute,vexing devil, and rhonas, the indomitable in the main, getting pelt collector to a 4/4 body has been pretty tough in my experience.
This is my current list, which I am experiencing mild success with:
4 Experiment one
4 Cloudfin raptor
4 Pelt collector
4 Narnam renegade
4 Young wolf
4 Vexing devil
4 Strangleroot geist
4 Avatar of the resolute
1 Rhonas, the indomitable
4 Pongify
4 Rapid hybridization
Lands: 19
4 Botanical sanctum
10 fetches
2 Breeding pool
1 Stomping ground
1 Forest
1 dryad arbor
4 Spell pierce
4 Damping sphere
4 Shapers' sanctuary
1 Life goes on
2 Coordinated assault
The deck has become a bit more polarized with this current build. More super nutted openings of 8 power on turn 2, or a 4/4 pelt collector on turn 2 with your opponent at 16 or less, but also more mediocre or bad openings of 3 evolve creatures and no way to pump them.
Also the mana can be a bit wonky at times. Having a blue heavy hand and then drawing vexing devil feels kinda bad. As does needing all 3 colors when playing against burn or another zoo deck.
Still not sure if the red splash is optimal, 12 evolve creatures is probably too many, and bolt really needs to be in a list playing r/u/g. I'll probably shave some weaker creatures for more interaction since that is something the deck really needs.
Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated
Are you finding the lack of spells to be an issue? I feel like my version of the deck looks creature light by comparison. Also how does Rhonas feel for you so far? he seems like a pretty good way to push through the last bit of damage.
I've been running the Simic version of this deck because I don't have the budget for the RUG land base yet. And and after 3 outings with it, all of them have come back with prizing, and beating some notable, higher tier decks. I'd like to add the red splash in at some point when I can afford it, but I am not actually convinced it is better than staying Simic and running some remands/counters and some bounce or draw spells.
I'm also not very big on running 12 evolve creatures. In my test draws, I would constantly be stuck with a lot of 1/1's and no one to pump them. I honestly can't decide on Pelt Collector or Experiment One. Pelt Collector is obviously better if you run vexing devil, but otherwise, I feel like the two creatures are interchangeable, and Experiment One might actually be the overall stronger card without Devil in the deck. The regeneration seems much more likely to be used over the trample vs a lot of removal heavy decks. So far, I've only used Pelt Collector in tournament, but I think I might swap him out next time to see what I like better.
I also just now decided to run Narnam Renegade and bought 3 for the main deck, I'll see how they fair next week. I went much more permission heavy in my list since I was still just in Simic. And so far I've decided to go down 2 mana leak, and one vapor snag to fit the renegades in.
I real stupid part of me wants to include Psionic Blast in the main board as a 2 or 3 of. Where I normally think the card is not worth playing, there were many games where it would have won me the game outright if I had it over an extra mana leak. But I think the same could be said if I had a Vines of Vastwood or another pump spell instead.
I'm also not sure what form of card draw is best for this deck. So far, I am liking Serum Visions over Chart a Course, but I only run 4 fetches for now. The more fetches I run the more likely I'll shuffle the scry options away and the better Chart seems. I'm still pretty new to modern, I am not sure what other options are worth considering, but I do feel like I'd like to include some form of card draw to prevent gassing out.
Here was the List I ran the other day, and as mentioned I've already changed it for next week.
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/simic-pongify-evolve/?cb=1541318187
My sideboard is mostly just things like Damping sphere, Tormod's crypt and ceremonious rejection. I've been tinkering with Sundering Growth as well, but it might not be worth it compared to some other naturalize card, but the populate effect with pongify has made me curious to see if it is good enough to use. So far, I've never been able to populate when I had to use it, so I am still not sure how much helps over other cards.
A few oddball choices I've tried that went over better than I thought: Admiral's Order and briarhorn. Admiral's Order is a pretty unplayable card in most decks, formats, and circumstances, but given the aggressive nature of this deck, a one U hard counter during or after a combat phase has shown itself to be handy in a few games. I've removed it for mana leak for now, but I will likely still mess with it. Briarhorn worked pretty well, but felt a bit clunky too. I used it as a janky vexing devil at times, or just a body at other times. Overall, a medium level of effectiveness, and a good choice for people making budget versions of this deck.
As much as I wanted psionic blast to work, the deck runs too close to the ground to make use of a 3 mana burn spell. I did take a few opponents by surprise with it though, which was pretty fun. But Char isn't really a viable card, even with the surprise factor of it being blue.
I tried a few card draw options, like serum visions and chart a course, but so far Smuggler's copter seems the most useful for trying to keep gas in the tank. It makes it easy to pitch lands, makes top decking 1/1's not so bad, and sometimes you can just use it to draw out enemy removal. Also, fetching a dryad arbor to pilot it is fun. I felt like generally, needing to use mana to fix my hand with serum vision or chart a course meant I was already losing and should have just mulled. While I like Serum over chart most of the time, the amount of fetches this deck runs ruins the setup of the scry too often. So I'd still go with chart over visions for this deck, but I'd go copter over both of them in the future, and would consider upping the count to 3, but making room for it is really tough, so I am going to likely keep it at 2 copies for now.
I am going to try running a few copies of Nissa, Voice of Zendikar and Inspiring Call in the sideboard vs UW control, as I got shut out pretty hard by a supreme verdict at FNM last night. And I foolishly took out my copies of Life Goes On because I assumed no one in my local area was playing burn, as I hadn't seen anyone run it all month. Sure enough I ran into two burn decks. That card seems pretty critical for the match up, as its a tight race without it.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to testing what the red splash can do for the board.
4x experiment one
4x narnam renegade
4x young wolf
4x strangleroot geist
3x avatar of the resolute
4x rapid hybridization
3x pongify
4x lightning bolt
2x spell pierce
2x vapor snag
1x echoing truth
2x telling time
1x dryad arbor
3x ceremonious rejection
3x ancient grudge
3x life goes on
1x beast within
1x echoing truth
2x unified will
2x dispel
Seems to me that the deck would really need new strong 4-of to be consistently competitive, but nevermind that as long as games are rewarding.
I've tried using both Collector and experiment in the same deck, and too often you will not be able to evolve either as you are stuck with too many 1/1 creatures in hand. I did, however, find Vexing Devil to be good, even without pelt collector. I am not entirely sold on Devil having a spot in the deck, but there were times, just doing 4 damage and evolving some creatures once was able to win some games at FNM.
I think there might be room for Incubation//Incongruity when the new set drops, but I am not entirely sure with will be worth it. It gives dig and an exiling pongify effect, so it definitely has the potential to fit in the deck.
I've also found faithless looting to be good for trying to avoid stalling out. Even though we don't get the benefits of playing things from the graveyard, it still does a great job of fixing your hand, and you can pitch lands to it later with flashback.
I am also currently experimenting with Izzet Charm, as this deck gets great use out of all of its abilities. But the casting cost feels a bit difficult at times. I've also had good results with Smuggler's copter as well. But sometimes it feels hard to get the value out of it compared to just a direct card draw.
Perilous Research and Warriors' Lesson both seems like pretty good options that I have not considered.
How have u mulled? I've tried both keeping one landers when my hand has looked promising (several one drops like young wolf and pongify with dual land) and mulled to get the second hand, and seems i've been mostly punished by the latter decision. Is there a consensus about this?
Vexing devil is definitely questionable. Sometimes it feels amazing, and a lot of times I wish it was something else. I think it can work in the deck, but I do feel like I would probably rather find something better at this point.
I tend to mull only if I am lacking some interaction in the hand. I frequently haven't had a lot of trouble with one land hands, but certainly having two fetches feels a lot more comfortable.