I have been trying this deck online since Dev's decktech. Love that guy!
It's a blast to navigate and have proxied it up for some paper games tomorrow. It actually has game against most who don't expect it,
I'm very much in favor of adding Bojuka Bog. It's a turn3 emergency brake with Tolaria West against dredge and the like. Also because it doesn't use the stack after transmote has resolved, a well timed bog can hose any snapcaster control shananigans.
Isn't it a triggered ability?
Yeah and if you are doing it t3 you have fast mana because transmute cost 3. They’ll figure this out when they play some actual games.
Looking for peoples thoughts on Curse of the Swineas a removal in this deck?
Wouldn't those U instant removal spells be better (the ones that give the controller of the creature a 3/3 ape)? I mean how often are you casing this for more than 3 mana? It's suuuuuper slow. Hell even the 2 mana one that gives them a morph creature seems better than this if you wanna play blue removal. Or maybe even psyonic blast?
i was thinking because the exile effect. U do not want to be destroying stuff or counter. I found many of my loses came from having to deal with the creatures that are coming back or dealing with things left behind like wurmcoil and voice etc
A card I though about using in the Mono Blue version of the deck is Spontaneous Mutation as a SB card against fast aggro decks (instead of Dismember).
The deck fills the GY pretty quickly which makes this pretty much a 1-mana instant speed pseudo-Pacifism which sounds good and it doesn't put creatures in the GY that can come back after Living End is cast.
I’m now 5 matches in running 2 jvp and I’ve been very pleased with him. I’ve cut counters and gone to 4 serum vision too. Deck seems to find it’s parts much faster now.
I’m now 5 matches in running 2 jvp and I’ve been very pleased with him. I’ve cut counters and gone to 4 serum vision too. Deck seems to find it’s parts much faster now.
I believe this to be wrong. The strength of the deck is that it is actually a draw-go permission deck. Diminishing that makes the deck weaker, especially for a combo that isn't actually all that potent, or sometimes irrelevant. If you want turbo Living Ends, I'd play the cascade version. My testing with Visions lead me to dissatisfaction with the card. I would rather hold up mana for a card that matters and then cycle to draw if I want, than not be holding up mana because I drew a Serum Visions.
Also, Archfiend of Ifnir is exceptionally poor. The problem with Archfiend is threefold. 1) You'd have to tutor black sources to to cast him, in which case Tolaria West has better uses or retool the mana into fetch/shocks, which isn't free, and makes some of the bad matchups worse. 2) Casting him with As Foretold is likely way too slow for his ability to be relevant. 3) You put him into play with Living End, which means his ability is also irrelevant.
On the note of retooling the mana, I strongly recommend not using River of Tears. I had it in my initial build for a long time, but not making blue on the first turn to suspend Ancestral was too much.
As the last card I can think of to talk about, Leyline of the Void is exceptionally poor, and having to use 3-4 sideboard slots for such an hit or miss effect is not very promising. There is nothing it does that Faerie Macabre can't do better.
I played against Skred (2-1) Ponza (2-0) Jund (2-0) and RG Tron (2-0). Tolaria West was the best card in the deck all night.
Going forward, I dropping the 4th Mana Leak for the 4th Cryptic, and potentially making the 3-3 split between Street Wraith and Architects to a 4-2 split. However, the life loss is not irrelevant. In the sideboard, I am considering removing Dispel, and going to 3 Faeries. I don't know for what though. I would like to have Chalice back in my build because -
As far as matchups go, Infect is completely unwinnable. Affinity and Burn are also challenging. Lantern is a joke though
THIS 100X!!! If you don't agree with this then there is no amount of logic that will ever convince you that good, non-oppressive, combos should be allowed. If you don't agree with it then just don't play this game, and you certainly shouldn't feel entitled to make any comment on ban lists ever.
I used to think it was a draw go permission deck too but it’s a combo deck and if you don’t get to as fortold soon enough even a small clock can be too much. Thursday I lost to not being able to deal with a t1 delver and just took 3 every turn. Serum visions is hardly an issue and visions t1 is by far the best play you can start with seeing the next three cards. No fetches helps ensure the cards you bottom stay out of the way too. I’m now only on 4 remand 4 cryptic 1 disallow. Jvp has absolutely won me games these last two days.
There are tons of card options for this build and the tweaks will be personal preference/meta. I find affinity to not be bad at all. Humans imo is 100% the worst matchup though.
So today instead of streaming I decided to gather some stats from MTGO. I went through all my replay since I started playing the current version of the deck (basically all the results after I cut the 4x Spreading Seas in the original build).All the results are from Modern Competitive Leagues and 7 results from a Modern Challenge. These results are only from the Mono U version.
Thanks Hazzzard for collecting the data. Very interesting to see the Jeskai matchup is so strong. At this point do you think the optimum build is a Mono U one?
I used to think it was a draw go permission deck too but it’s a combo deck and if you don’t get to as fortold soon enough even a small clock can be too much. Thursday I lost to not being able to deal with a t1 delver and just took 3 every turn. Serum visions is hardly an issue and visions t1 is by far the best play you can start with seeing the next three cards. No fetches helps ensure the cards you bottom stay out of the way too. I’m now only on 4 remand 4 cryptic 1 disallow. Jvp has absolutely won me games these last two days.
There are tons of card options for this build and the tweaks will be personal preference/meta. I find affinity to not be bad at all. Humans imo is 100% the worst matchup though.
If it is not a draw go deck, then all of us are violating the first rule of deckbuilding - don't build a worse version of something else. The cascade version is much better a assembling living end.
THIS 100X!!! If you don't agree with this then there is no amount of logic that will ever convince you that good, non-oppressive, combos should be allowed. If you don't agree with it then just don't play this game, and you certainly shouldn't feel entitled to make any comment on ban lists ever.
I have been trying this deck online since Dev's decktech. Love that guy!
It's a blast to navigate and have proxied it up for some paper games tomorrow. It actually has game against most who don't expect it,
I'm very much in favor of adding Bojuka Bog. It's a turn3 emergency brake with Tolaria West against dredge and the like. Also because it doesn't use the stack after transmote has resolved, a well timed bog can hose any snapcaster control shananigans.
Isn't it a triggered ability?
Yes it is. my mistake.
Still, forcing them to use a chained spell with Snapcaster Mage before going off is great, taking the mage in the process.
It's a fun build for sure. Easilly hated, but fun nonetheless.
I used to think it was a draw go permission deck too but it’s a combo deck and if you don’t get to as fortold soon enough even a small clock can be too much. Thursday I lost to not being able to deal with a t1 delver and just took 3 every turn. Serum visions is hardly an issue and visions t1 is by far the best play you can start with seeing the next three cards. No fetches helps ensure the cards you bottom stay out of the way too. I’m now only on 4 remand 4 cryptic 1 disallow. Jvp has absolutely won me games these last two days.
There are tons of card options for this build and the tweaks will be personal preference/meta. I find affinity to not be bad at all. Humans imo is 100% the worst matchup though.
If it is not a draw go deck, then all of us are violating the first rule of deckbuilding - don't build a worse version of something else. The cascade version is much better a assembling living end.
Because it’s not worse. This version has cryptic command, ancestral recall, remand, and a tutor for 0’s. I’m not playing no permission but serum visions t1 is way more powerful than just cycling a creature imo. Also the other version plays 8 just lame cascade spells and gets wrecked by cards like remand and any clock.
I would like to have Chalice back in my build because -
As far as matchups go, Infect is completely unwinnable. Affinity and Burn are also challenging. Lantern is a joke though
Eldrazi Tron player here. I can say that Chalice is really good vs many decks but it is not that good vs affinity. Damping Matrix is tech against them though. So many affinity in my area I have been using Damping Matrix in my original Jund living end build.
I love chalices and I use them in my build but I side them out vs affinity. I will always use chalices whenever I can just because I have them
Hey guys. Been experimenting with this and not only do I think this has potential it's a blast to play. have some thoughts to share as I keep tinkering..
1) Has anyone tried chalices with a few gemstone caverns? The 1 cmc spot is pretty light for us (pierce, snare) and chalice would help greatly against some tough matchups (Grixis Shadows, Infect).
2)Same question with Archfiend of Ifnir. fast creature aggros I think are one of our tough matchups, and I've tested a few leagues with it and when it was good it was great. Ultimately it feels like it's too clunky and too slow in the matchups that you want it in.
3) what are some of the matchups that people have found to be bad? So far Gx Tron has surprisingly been OK due to the tutors for GQ and field of ruins. Valakut has felt bad, as has humans and Shadows for me so far. I can imagine Burn being awful too.
I've played dredge a lot and have won some trashy games by looping Cryptic Commands and Bojuka Bogs, but I can see this matchup being bad. A related conclusion was that Macabre just didn't do it for me in the matchups that I wanted GY hate, so I'm back on the Leyline train.
I would like to have Chalice back in my build because -
As far as matchups go, Infect is completely unwinnable. Affinity and Burn are also challenging. Lantern is a joke though
Eldrazi Tron player here. I can say that Chalice is really good vs many decks but it is not that good vs affinity. Damping Matrix is tech against them though. So many affinity in my area I have been using Damping Matrix in my original Jund living end build.
I love chalices and I use them in my build but I side them out vs affinity. I will always use chalices whenever I can just because I have them
THIS 100X!!! If you don't agree with this then there is no amount of logic that will ever convince you that good, non-oppressive, combos should be allowed. If you don't agree with it then just don't play this game, and you certainly shouldn't feel entitled to make any comment on ban lists ever.
Gabriel Nassif thought that Serum was too powerful a card not to play. But it's better to cycle creatures until you find one piece of the puzzle and then use Serum to dig faster towards the second piece.
I can see where he's coming from with that line of play, and it's certainly something that's worth testing.
He's also testing the white splash on stream but I have yet to watch those leagues.
Nassif has great insight but as I said earlier you can’t take much away from watching him play because he misplays a ton on stream.
You can learn as much from his misplays than his great ones because he usually points it out when he misplays.
If you only want to watch people that play the deck perfectly you'll never be exposed to the misplays you could also make.
That’s not true. His misplays completely change the way the game plays out. It’s why he loses most games.
You can learn as much from his misplays than his great ones because he usually points it out when he misplays.
If you only want to watch people that play the deck perfectly you'll never be exposed to the misplays you could also make.
That’s not true. His misplays completely change the way the game plays out. It’s why he loses most games.
The misplays also do not inspire at all. Compare to SaffronOlive who makes you wanna pick up the deck, Gabriel’s awful plays made me doubt the deck a little before I realized he was being awful at playin it.
I would like to have Chalice back in my build because -
As far as matchups go, Infect is completely unwinnable. Affinity and Burn are also challenging. Lantern is a joke though
Eldrazi Tron player here. I can say that Chalice is really good vs many decks but it is not that good vs affinity. Damping Matrix is tech against them though. So many affinity in my area I have been using Damping Matrix in my original Jund living end build.
I love chalices and I use them in my build but I side them out vs affinity. I will always use chalices whenever I can just because I have them
Not to critisize your choises in the jund list, but Damping Matrix shuts down our own strategy and could therefore never be considered viable SB tech.
Not to critisize your choises in the jund list, but Damping Matrix shuts down our own strategy and could therefore never be considered viable SB tech.
From the Oracle card rulings:
3/14/2017 Damping Matrix’s ability affects only artifacts and creatures on the battlefield. Activated abilities that work in other zones (such as bloodrush or unearth) can still be activated. Triggered abilities (starting with “when,” “whenever,” or “at”) are unaffected.
Therefore, Damping Matrix affects nothing we would typically play besides Jace, Vryn's Prodigy for those who have chosen to sport them. All of the cycling abilities, as well as abilities of cards like Faerie Macabre, would still work just fine.
As an aside, the black splash is probably a good idea; just like with Gx Tron, the power of cards like Collective Brutality as well as possibly Fatal Push and Thoughtseize really help shore up this deck's weaknesses.
Not to critisize your choises in the jund list, but Damping Matrix shuts down our own strategy and could therefore never be considered viable SB tech.
From the Oracle card rulings:
3/14/2017 Damping Matrix’s ability affects only artifacts and creatures on the battlefield. Activated abilities that work in other zones (such as bloodrush or unearth) can still be activated. Triggered abilities (starting with “when,” “whenever,” or “at”) are unaffected.
Therefore, Damping Matrix affects nothing we would typically play besides Jace, Vryn's Prodigy for those who have chosen to sport them. All of the cycling abilities, as well as abilities of cards like Faerie Macabre, would still work just fine.
As an aside, the black splash is probably a good idea; just like with Gx Tron, the power of cards like Collective Brutality as well as possibly Fatal Push and Thoughtseize really help shore up this deck's weaknesses.
Wow, you are right. Thanks for setting that straight.
Had to look up Stony Sipence to be sure though.
It's wierd because a card like Harsch Mentor specifically states "on the battlefield" in the textbox and Pithing Needle affects cards regardless of the zone they are in.
The rule for similar cards seems somewhat inconsistent.
Seems like search for azcanta and serum visions came here to stay. Maybe its time to try them out. Are you testing that guys?
I have tested search and visions, I've found both lean into the ability for the deck to go long but in a race they can sometimes be a liability, especially search, however the filtering is really nice so I'm not sold yet on weather or not to include them.
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Yeah and if you are doing it t3 you have fast mana because transmute cost 3. They’ll figure this out when they play some actual games.
Wouldn't those U instant removal spells be better (the ones that give the controller of the creature a 3/3 ape)? I mean how often are you casing this for more than 3 mana? It's suuuuuper slow. Hell even the 2 mana one that gives them a morph creature seems better than this if you wanna play blue removal. Or maybe even psyonic blast?
For dealing with multiple creatures there are Engulf the Shore and Aetherize (or Whelming Wave/Evacuation/Aetherspouts).
I'd also suggest Spontaneous Mutation:
I believe this to be wrong. The strength of the deck is that it is actually a draw-go permission deck. Diminishing that makes the deck weaker, especially for a combo that isn't actually all that potent, or sometimes irrelevant. If you want turbo Living Ends, I'd play the cascade version. My testing with Visions lead me to dissatisfaction with the card. I would rather hold up mana for a card that matters and then cycle to draw if I want, than not be holding up mana because I drew a Serum Visions.
Also, Archfiend of Ifnir is exceptionally poor. The problem with Archfiend is threefold. 1) You'd have to tutor black sources to to cast him, in which case Tolaria West has better uses or retool the mana into fetch/shocks, which isn't free, and makes some of the bad matchups worse. 2) Casting him with As Foretold is likely way too slow for his ability to be relevant. 3) You put him into play with Living End, which means his ability is also irrelevant.
On the note of retooling the mana, I strongly recommend not using River of Tears. I had it in my initial build for a long time, but not making blue on the first turn to suspend Ancestral was too much.
As the last card I can think of to talk about, Leyline of the Void is exceptionally poor, and having to use 3-4 sideboard slots for such an hit or miss effect is not very promising. There is nothing it does that Faerie Macabre can't do better.
I 4-0'd the last Modern event with this list:
3 Architects of Will
4 Curator of Mysteries
4 Striped Riverwinder
2 Nimble Obstructionist
3 Cryptic Command
4 Mana Leak
4 Remand
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Living End
4 Field of Ruin
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Tolaria West
10 Island
4 Faerie Macabre
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Echoing Truth
1 Drake Haven
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Dispel
I played against Skred (2-1) Ponza (2-0) Jund (2-0) and RG Tron (2-0). Tolaria West was the best card in the deck all night.
Going forward, I dropping the 4th Mana Leak for the 4th Cryptic, and potentially making the 3-3 split between Street Wraith and Architects to a 4-2 split. However, the life loss is not irrelevant. In the sideboard, I am considering removing Dispel, and going to 3 Faeries. I don't know for what though. I would like to have Chalice back in my build because -
As far as matchups go, Infect is completely unwinnable. Affinity and Burn are also challenging. Lantern is a joke though
There are tons of card options for this build and the tweaks will be personal preference/meta. I find affinity to not be bad at all. Humans imo is 100% the worst matchup though.
Thanks Hazzzard for collecting the data. Very interesting to see the Jeskai matchup is so strong. At this point do you think the optimum build is a Mono U one?
If it is not a draw go deck, then all of us are violating the first rule of deckbuilding - don't build a worse version of something else. The cascade version is much better a assembling living end.
Yes it is. my mistake.
Still, forcing them to use a chained spell with Snapcaster Mage before going off is great, taking the mage in the process.
It's a fun build for sure. Easilly hated, but fun nonetheless.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
Because it’s not worse. This version has cryptic command, ancestral recall, remand, and a tutor for 0’s. I’m not playing no permission but serum visions t1 is way more powerful than just cycling a creature imo. Also the other version plays 8 just lame cascade spells and gets wrecked by cards like remand and any clock.
Eldrazi Tron player here. I can say that Chalice is really good vs many decks but it is not that good vs affinity. Damping Matrix is tech against them though. So many affinity in my area I have been using Damping Matrix in my original Jund living end build.
I love chalices and I use them in my build but I side them out vs affinity. I will always use chalices whenever I can just because I have them
1) Has anyone tried chalices with a few gemstone caverns? The 1 cmc spot is pretty light for us (pierce, snare) and chalice would help greatly against some tough matchups (Grixis Shadows, Infect).
2)Same question with Archfiend of Ifnir. fast creature aggros I think are one of our tough matchups, and I've tested a few leagues with it and when it was good it was great. Ultimately it feels like it's too clunky and too slow in the matchups that you want it in.
3) what are some of the matchups that people have found to be bad? So far Gx Tron has surprisingly been OK due to the tutors for GQ and field of ruins. Valakut has felt bad, as has humans and Shadows for me so far. I can imagine Burn being awful too.
I've played dredge a lot and have won some trashy games by looping Cryptic Commands and Bojuka Bogs, but I can see this matchup being bad. A related conclusion was that Macabre just didn't do it for me in the matchups that I wanted GY hate, so I'm back on the Leyline train.
I think I'd like them for Infect mostly.
Nassif has great insight but as I said earlier you can’t take much away from watching him play because he misplays a ton on stream.
That’s not true. His misplays completely change the way the game plays out. It’s why he loses most games.
The misplays also do not inspire at all. Compare to SaffronOlive who makes you wanna pick up the deck, Gabriel’s awful plays made me doubt the deck a little before I realized he was being awful at playin it.
Not to critisize your choises in the jund list, but Damping Matrix shuts down our own strategy and could therefore never be considered viable SB tech.
Nimble Obstructionist however....
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
From the Oracle card rulings:
3/14/2017 Damping Matrix’s ability affects only artifacts and creatures on the battlefield. Activated abilities that work in other zones (such as bloodrush or unearth) can still be activated. Triggered abilities (starting with “when,” “whenever,” or “at”) are unaffected.
Therefore, Damping Matrix affects nothing we would typically play besides Jace, Vryn's Prodigy for those who have chosen to sport them. All of the cycling abilities, as well as abilities of cards like Faerie Macabre, would still work just fine.
As an aside, the black splash is probably a good idea; just like with Gx Tron, the power of cards like Collective Brutality as well as possibly Fatal Push and Thoughtseize really help shore up this deck's weaknesses.
Wow, you are right. Thanks for setting that straight.
Had to look up Stony Sipence to be sure though.
It's wierd because a card like Harsch Mentor specifically states "on the battlefield" in the textbox and Pithing Needle affects cards regardless of the zone they are in.
The rule for similar cards seems somewhat inconsistent.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
Recent (6-1) 10th place list from Kombo11408 for Modern Challenge #11063097 - 23rd Dec 2017:
2 Architects of Will
4 Curator of Mysteries
4 Street Wraith
4 Striped Riverwinder
Spells
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Living End
2 Serum Visions
4 Cryptic Command
4 Remand
2 Supreme Will
4 As Foretold
2 Search for Azcanta
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Field of Ruin
1 Ghost Quarter
9 Island
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Sunken Ruins
4 Tolaria West
3 Dismember
2 Dispel
2 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Nimble Obstructionist
1 Tormod's Crypt
I have tested search and visions, I've found both lean into the ability for the deck to go long but in a race they can sometimes be a liability, especially search, however the filtering is really nice so I'm not sold yet on weather or not to include them.