I'm not seeing fetch lands. Does a playset help thin the deck vs. life total.
Fetchlands aren't worth the negligable thinning effect if that's all you're using them for. There's been a bunch of fairly competent maths done on this very topic. I believe Frank Karsten is one of the more prominent pro players who writes about this kind of stuff.
For colour fixing though, Fetchlands are a superior option to almost anything else (I say almost because there's context-driven examples of stuff like Glacial Fortress being occasionally technically better in certain circumstances but it doesn't happen often).
If you're running white or black, some number of fetches seems appropriate.
Finally, I can't see the red splash legitimately adding as much utility as a black or white splash in this deck. Is it really worth pursuing?
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Switched from River of Tears to Sunken Ruins, and added one Engineered Explosives, since Chalice on 0 was being super annoying. One nice tip is you can cast the Explosives for 1 colorless mana and it won't be countered by Chalice on 0, but it will blow it up.
I'm considering some bounce on the sideboard as well, I want more options when facing leyline of the void, rest in peace or chalice on 0. Cryptic is already needed for so many things, and Echoing truth is a pet card of mine, so I might give 2 slots in the sideboard to it.
Obstructionist has been great against Oblivion Stone, Relic of Progenitus and those sorts of effects, and the evasion has been relevant a couple of times. I still have him in the sideboard, but I might give it a try maindeck sometime.
Supreme will I'm still not decided on, it is pretty expensive and that hurts sometimes, but then it is a hard counter most times, and the dig 4 can be a life saver.
Another important tip I found is to use your life total more and trust the deck. I was being too anxious with the counter magic, most creatures are ok to let resolve since you'll deal with them with living end, I've since gotten more comfortable taking hits and saving permission until I draw the As Foretold or Living End, and it makes a difference.
Finally, I can't see the red splash legitimately adding as much utility as a black or white splash in this deck. Is it really worth pursuing?
I think it's kind of meta dependent. I previously really liked the red splash because blood moon was effective against traditional tron (which was seeing an uptick several weeks ago). That said, I think the mono-U version is the most consistent and I'm intending to revert back to it when I get my third Nimble Obstructionist in the mail.
Obstructionist has been great against Oblivion Stone, Relic of Progenitus and those sorts of effects, and the evasion has been relevant a couple of times. I still have him in the sideboard, but I might give it a try maindeck sometime.
I've found it to be very effective in ways you wouln't expect, like countering a planeswalker activation/ultimate, Annihilator triggers, COUNTERING STORM TRIGGERS, etc, and since people do maindeck relics, I've been wondering about maindecking Nimble Obstructionist as well. What are other peoples thoughts on bringing it into the starting 60?
also, what do you all think of the new rivals artifact that protects cards in graveyards?
Nimble Obstructionist is also a decent hard cast too. Flash allows you to hold up for counter magic and then drop a threat end of opponents turn. We can really only hard cast Curators so having a 2nd hard cast creature is great. Can be fetched with Drift.
I've noticed Silent Gravestone, if the exile effect was one sided it would've been better.
Grafdigger's cage seems better so far, unless you're very worried about Surgical Extraction.
I still think Faerie Macabre is the best for that sort of job (though Grafdigger is very good against Storm/Snapcaster/CoCo decks).
Nimble Obstructionist can also be used to counter the chalice countering trigger also. It looks pretty good in this deck since it covers so many issues the deck Could face.
Countering a fetch, planeswalker activation, chalice, mirror match, relic activation, grapeshot trigger, etc.
I've been testing this deck for the past couple of weeks with improving success. I've logged around 50 matches with various iterations of mono-blue (to very light black splash) so I have gotten a pretty good understanding of it's strengths and weaknesses and how to play it. First of all I find it far more difficult to play than I expected. There are a surprisingly amount of weird interactions and non-obvious plays that if you don't nail every time you will lose. When I first start playing I punted something like 5 possible match wins over the first 20.
After the initial breaking in period I've won 72% of my matches with 2 5-0 leagues so far. I still haven't played enough matches against all the top tier decks to fully understand the matchup percentages but burn is 66% (out of 6 matches), affinity 60% (out of 5), GDS seems bad and I've only won once (out of 3). Humans seems like a nightmare and I haven't even come close to winning any of the 2 I've played.
Anyhow, observations...
Leyline of the Void/Rest in Peace/Relic/etc. are really not that bad for you. In fact I very often win games where people waste cards or turns getting these into play. I get Leylined/Rest in Peace all the time after sideboard, often times people go down to 5 just to find one thinking it will win the game when in reality having a graveyard is not really all that important. Against creature heavy decks they typically use Rest in Peace which just ensures your Living End's will just be Wraths (which is often good enough). My game plan typically when I see one of these problem enchantments is to just beat opponents with overwhelming card advantage through As Foretold/Ancestral Visions. Then I'll just cast the creatures w/ As Foretold and win that way or wait to have complete control of the game to remove the enchantment. No need to exhaust all your resources in removing the graveyard hate.
Countering your own Living End actually comes up. Against Arcbound Ravager or other sac outlets Living End can be pretty bad. A play that has won me a few games is to cast it then once the opponent sacs all or most of his creatures you just counter it thus basically just turning it into a Wrath of God. This play is probably hard to pull off in paper magic without giving away your plan due to how priority works.
Due to the number of cyclers you play knowing when to mulligan is hard and a bit more random than most decks. That's just a fact of life and there's no getting around it. Typically I try to go a little aggressive and if my hand is great but light on lands I hope for the best with my cycles.
Corollary: Ancestral Visions is a amazing card to draw when mulliganing. So I also mulligan fairly aggressively too if my hand isn't showing cards that are needed to win.
Just suspending Visions on turn 1 is often the right play even if you have As Foretold. It's almost always the right play against slower decks and control. Even later in the game I'm not afraid to suspend if I don't have As Foretold and I think there's even a passable chance of staying alive 4 turns.
Game 1 do not cycle Street Wraith until you know what they are playing (doing so against a very aggressive strategy can be wrong).
If you have an As Foretold in hand and another on 3+. Play the As Foretold in hand (for free) then use the newly played one to cast your 0cmc spell (although beware of Detention Sphere and Maelstrom Pulse)
Nimble Obstructionist is great. I currently have 1 in the main deck and 1 sideboard could see adding 1 more md against the right meta-game (tron heavy, chalice heavy decks). There are so many interactions with it and it is often game-winning. Many opponents just do not consider it as a possibility. It's also amazing to just play at end of turn or to block affinity creatures.
Things that I've countered with Nimble Obstructionist:
Oblivion Stone
Chalice of the Void
Spell Queller trigger
Snapcaster Mage trigger
Rest in Peace (CIP trigger) - will allow you to keep what's in your gy there
Sac Lands
TKS
Grapeshot Storm Trigger
Relic Activated Ability
Aether Vial
Liliana Ultimate (or any Planeswalker ability)
Primeval Titan
Valakut (to stay alive and attack for win next turn)
Eidolon of the Great Revel
Arcbound Ravager
My current list...
10 Island
2 River of Tears
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Field of Ruin
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Tolaria West
4 Ancestral Visions
4 Living End
4 Remand
2 Spell Pierce
1 Search for Azcarta
4 As Foretold
1 Nimble Obstructionist
4 Cryptic Command
4 Curator of Mysteries
4 Striped Riverwinder
3 Architects of Will
3 Street Wraith
SB:
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Dismember
2 Collective Brutality
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Dispel
1 Nimble Obstructionist
1 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Engineered Explosives
Sideboard cards I've tested:
Chalice of the Void
Vapor Snag
More Leyline of Sanctities
Tormod's Crypt
Nice to hear your experience, I completely agree on all your points.
Couple questions:
How has Search for Azcanta worked for you? I'm dying to put that card everywhere, but haven't tried it here yet, haha.
Are you ok with the permission you're running? Do you find yourself wishing you had more?
I see you tried Chalice, didn't it work for you? I tried it in place of the Leylines of Sanctity, but ended up going back to the leylines, I don't like leylines overall, but they're just too good against discard/burn.
Same with Tormod's crypt, what didn't you like? I prefer it over leylines of the void, since I refuse to spend 8 sideboard slots in leylines.
Since I see Vapor Snag there, have you considered Echoing truth? I like the flexibility it has, and some more bounce for things that got through the countermagic has been very helpful.
Search has worked alright. It's kind of a flex spot where I've tried additional permission in place of it. Almost any time I draw it it's the spell I want to play, and it's obviously the best card in the deck against control decks so it's probably earned it's spot. It doesn't really do anything to extend the game against the fast creature decks which is where the bad matchups are so if I could find a card that helps there I could consider replacing it.
Permission seems about right. 1 mana counters are very important in allowing you a) to live long enough to win the game by either living end or just getting tons of card and b) allows us to force a turn 4 As Foretold w/ counter backup against decks that run counters. Unless there additional 1 mana permission spells I'm missing that helps against creatures... (maybe I should try spell snare again).
Chalice just never really got used. The decks it is best against you're either so far ahead it's unnecessary (i.e. Lantern, 8-rack) or so far behind (burn) that playing it on turn 4 (realistically after searching with Tolaria West just wouldn't help.
Tormod's crypt was decent but running it with 4 leylines of the void seemed too much. Against decks where you really need the effect immediately (i.e dredge, goryo's vengeance, etc.) leyline is just far superior.
I've been pretty happy w/ mixing up the mana base to allow for some collective brutalities sideboard. This really helped the burn matchup and thus allowed me to go down to 1 leyline of the sanctity sideboard. I found that when I ran 4 of the sanctities it was hard to put them all in without diluting your deck too much. Burn is actually a 50/50 to positive matchup now w/ the sideboard I'm running.
I haven't tried echoing truth. Vapor snag was weak and I tried it to improve the matchups against fast decks with creatures (namely humans, burn, affinity, infect, hollow-one.dec). It wasn't very good at this purpose and I doubt echoing truth would be much better. I'm not really interested or needing the added flexibility of bouncing other permanents (although chalice can be a real pain but you already have recall, nimble obstructionist, explosives, cryptic which all can help with that) although the copy effect seems pretty useful vs. storm, especially if you opt to run more Leyline of the Sanctity to shutdown grapeshot.
Have you tried Spontaneous Mutation as a SB option against fast aggro decks ?
I did try Spontaneous Mutation. That was what led me to Vapor Snag. I found the mutation to be not impactful enough in the matchups where you really need fast creature disruption. It doesn't do anything to some of the most troublesome creatures (i.e. Thalia, Meddling Mage, and Kitesail Freebooter) and you rarely have enough cards in your graveyard to prevent Goblin Guide from getting in a 4 points of damage or so. Honestly, a card that I haven't tested yet that may work well out of the board is Gigadrowse. It does just about everything that Spontaneous Mutation does while also being very useful later in the game to give you additional turns. It also happens to be just about the best card against pure control decks.
I'm considering one copy of Drift of Phantasms (maybe another one in the sideboard?) as another way to get to As Foretold, but also to potentially fetch a copy of Crucible of Worlds post sideboard, since the Ghost Quarter/Field of Ruin - Crucible of Worlds combo is just game winning sometimes.
Has anybody given that a try?
Also, I'm liking the idea of 1 Tormod's Crypt more and more, Bojuka's inability to trigger at instant speed has been a problem a couple of times.
Faerie Macabre has been great, not as much for clearing creatures or Snap targets in their yard as planned but for saving my Living End or Visions from Surgical Extraction, haha.
I'm surprised every day by the number of lines available in the deck, I keep coming up with potential plays and discovering punts in my play (or at least sub optimal plays).
I'm considering one copy of Drift of Phantasms (maybe another one in the sideboard?) as another way to get to As Foretold, but also to potentially fetch a copy of Crucible of Worlds post sideboard, since the Ghost Quarter/Field of Ruin - Crucible of Worlds combo is just game winning sometimes.
Has anybody given that a try?
Also, I'm liking the idea of 1 Tormod's Crypt more and more, Bojuka's inability to trigger at instant speed has been a problem a couple of times.
Faerie Macabre has been great, not as much for clearing creatures or Snap targets in their yard as planned but for saving my Living End or Visions from Surgical Extraction, haha.
I'm surprised every day by the number of lines available in the deck, I keep coming up with potential plays and discovering punts in my play (or at least sub optimal plays).
Drift of Phantasms is great. Even if you already have an As Foretold, you can use it to grab Supreme Will or Disallow if you're running them. And the Crucible from the sideboard is also not a bad option either.
I definitely like Tormod's Crypt as graveyard hate for this deck. It costing 0 lets you tutor it up with a Tolaria West, and having it just sit there until your opponent makes you use it can cause your opponent to make mistakes.
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Modern Decks: UBG Lantern Control GBU BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Long time lurker here, first time poster. I have been playing the following deck for a while now and have been having great results.
Not really bringing anything new to the table that was said here but the deck has gone through a number of iterations and this is the one I have been sticking with for a while now. Let me know what you think!
1 notable thing I don't think I have seen before is that I tried Perplex. Unfortunately giving the opponent the ability to dump their hand in the yard wasn't what I wanted It was interesting to transmute for As Foretold and came in handy when playing vs control (as they didn't want to dumpt their hand)
I like that UW list a lot. Path seems great in this deck.
Pact of negation seems like decent tech (I've been itching for a free spell in this deck!) although maybe disrupting shoal/Commandeer might have a little traction as well.
Can we talk sideboards and general deck construction? I feel like we're nowhere near reaching an "optimal" or even commonly accepted stock version of the deck. Sideboards particularly are all over the place!
I feel like leyline of the void is almost essential at this point? I've been bringing it in against decks which out-synergy or out-gun my board even after a resolved living end, and it's seemed decent so far. How do we beat decks like merfolk and midrange heavy-hitters who are able to hold creatures back while still putting pressure on our life total, so that a resolved living end has less impact.
Also I'm seeing a lot of variance in the number of cyclers people are running. Even with 14 I'm finding that occasionally I just don't draw enough (one or two usually isn't enough to close out a game)
I put the deck together because there's some seriously powerful interactions at work here, but this is such a diamond in the rough right now, no finesse or proper detail yet. We need to focus on refinement and nailing down things like the correct sideboard strategies. At the moment I just see people jamming random powerful hate-cards in there and sure sometimes it'll work but there's more to sideboarding in modern than just jamming stony silence and stuff (good as they are).
Personally I feel like hurkyll's recall needs to be a consideration for sideboard. Engineered explosives. Stony silence, path/push, ghostly prison, erm. Collective brutality, liliana? Some kind of persistent cheap advantage engine like new or old liliana could genuinely be an option out of the sideboard. Gideon of the trials! I don't know guys i'm spitballing.
I come from Taking Turns, that's my jam. I know the deck inside out; hell I did the primer. I wonder if there's anything 'portable' from there into this strategy. Gigadrowse I've heard mentioned and it's a powerful card in the right circumstances. Exhaustion is another, although less of a neat fit maybe? Hard to say really.
Lol guys help me out this deck has all the hallmarks of a real powerful contender in modern but for real it needs refining. 0_0
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I feel like the sideboard will always be the toughest thing to standarize since Modern has so many different decks and strategies.
Leylines will have their detractors and supporters, I particularly don't like them much since they take too much space or are very unreliable otherwise.
Engineered Explosives, Tormod's Crypt have been great for me. I like Torpor Orb a lot, specially against humans where it's amazing, but also Jeskai for spell quellers/snaps, and other creatures like rec sage, TKS, etc...
Nimble Obstructionist is another pretty standard sideboard card, I've yet to try Archfiend of Ifnir, I think most people who did have given up on him though.
I love Faerie Macabre, it enables a ton of tricks and it is another flying body we can get back.
Collective Brutality is just awesome against burn, I think it deserves some spots but haven't tried it yet.
Here is my current decklist and the huge "Maybeboard" of cards that could be interesting to try, in case it's useful. I'm on Ub, haven't considered UW really.
Maindeck wise, I think we have consensus (or close to) on:
4 As Foretold
4 Living End
4 Ancestral Visions
4 Cryptic Command
4 Remand
4 Curator of Mysteries
4 Striped Riverwinder
Almost always:
3 Street Wraith (4 or 2 in some lists, 3 is the most common I saw)
4 Tolaria West (3 for sure, most lists play 4)
1 Bojuka Bog
21-22 Lands, with around 4 Field of Ruin/Ghost Quarter total
Architects of Will and Nimble Obstrucionist are usually there as well rounding up the number of cyclers to around 14. I agree that going lower is risky, I've also suffered finding them several times.
On the flex spots (around 5/6) extra permission is one alternative, some removal another one, Search for Azcanta seems interesting, some more cyclers can work, and other more original alternatives.
I feel we're not that bad on the maindeck, the sideboard is where most work is needed and it can be tough since the deck has so many potential plays that the interactions with sideboard cards open up a ton of possibilities.
Can someone help me understand the splash of black mana sources? Is it to hard cast living end?
The idea is to cast living end off the as foretold ability. Suspending LE is not even remotely a plan for this deck. The black splash would be for potential removal and casting Architects of Will.
Have you tried Spontaneous Mutation as a SB option against fast aggro decks ?
I did try Spontaneous Mutation. That was what led me to Vapor Snag. I found the mutation to be not impactful enough in the matchups where you really need fast creature disruption. It doesn't do anything to some of the most troublesome creatures (i.e. Thalia, Meddling Mage, and Kitesail Freebooter) and you rarely have enough cards in your graveyard to prevent Goblin Guide from getting in a 4 points of damage or so. Honestly, a card that I haven't tested yet that may work well out of the board is Gigadrowse. It does just about everything that Spontaneous Mutation does while also being very useful later in the game to give you additional turns. It also happens to be just about the best card against pure control decks.
Sidisi's Faithful is an option. Buys time versus small creature decks, and can bounce Gurmag Angler while avoiding Stubborn Denial. Then it comes back post-Living End to bounce any opposing creatures that also came back.
Considering that Burn and GDS are both bad matchups, it may be worth trying, even if it appears to be a weak card. Wall of Omens saw play in UW Control for quite a while, so the 0/4 body may be more useful than it seems at first.
Can someone help me understand the splash of black mana sources? Is it to hard cast living end?
The idea is to cast living end off the as foretold ability. Suspending LE is not even remotely a plan for this deck. The black splash would be for potential removal and casting Architects of Will.
I am aware that you cast Living End off As Foretold...its the whole point of the thread... but Quartz is running black mana sources and no black sideboard cards. So if it is just to hard cast Architects then it seems less important to run black sources.
Fetchlands aren't worth the negligable thinning effect if that's all you're using them for. There's been a bunch of fairly competent maths done on this very topic. I believe Frank Karsten is one of the more prominent pro players who writes about this kind of stuff.
For colour fixing though, Fetchlands are a superior option to almost anything else (I say almost because there's context-driven examples of stuff like Glacial Fortress being occasionally technically better in certain circumstances but it doesn't happen often).
If you're running white or black, some number of fetches seems appropriate.
Finally, I can't see the red splash legitimately adding as much utility as a black or white splash in this deck. Is it really worth pursuing?
Switched from River of Tears to Sunken Ruins, and added one Engineered Explosives, since Chalice on 0 was being super annoying. One nice tip is you can cast the Explosives for 1 colorless mana and it won't be countered by Chalice on 0, but it will blow it up.
I'm considering some bounce on the sideboard as well, I want more options when facing leyline of the void, rest in peace or chalice on 0. Cryptic is already needed for so many things, and Echoing truth is a pet card of mine, so I might give 2 slots in the sideboard to it.
Obstructionist has been great against Oblivion Stone, Relic of Progenitus and those sorts of effects, and the evasion has been relevant a couple of times. I still have him in the sideboard, but I might give it a try maindeck sometime.
Supreme will I'm still not decided on, it is pretty expensive and that hurts sometimes, but then it is a hard counter most times, and the dig 4 can be a life saver.
Another important tip I found is to use your life total more and trust the deck. I was being too anxious with the counter magic, most creatures are ok to let resolve since you'll deal with them with living end, I've since gotten more comfortable taking hits and saving permission until I draw the As Foretold or Living End, and it makes a difference.
I think it's kind of meta dependent. I previously really liked the red splash because blood moon was effective against traditional tron (which was seeing an uptick several weeks ago). That said, I think the mono-U version is the most consistent and I'm intending to revert back to it when I get my third Nimble Obstructionist in the mail.
I've found it to be very effective in ways you wouln't expect, like countering a planeswalker activation/ultimate, Annihilator triggers, COUNTERING STORM TRIGGERS, etc, and since people do maindeck relics, I've been wondering about maindecking Nimble Obstructionist as well. What are other peoples thoughts on bringing it into the starting 60?
also, what do you all think of the new rivals artifact that protects cards in graveyards?
Grafdigger's cage seems better so far, unless you're very worried about Surgical Extraction.
I still think Faerie Macabre is the best for that sort of job (though Grafdigger is very good against Storm/Snapcaster/CoCo decks).
Countering a fetch, planeswalker activation, chalice, mirror match, relic activation, grapeshot trigger, etc.
After the initial breaking in period I've won 72% of my matches with 2 5-0 leagues so far. I still haven't played enough matches against all the top tier decks to fully understand the matchup percentages but burn is 66% (out of 6 matches), affinity 60% (out of 5), GDS seems bad and I've only won once (out of 3). Humans seems like a nightmare and I haven't even come close to winning any of the 2 I've played.
Anyhow, observations...
Leyline of the Void/Rest in Peace/Relic/etc. are really not that bad for you. In fact I very often win games where people waste cards or turns getting these into play. I get Leylined/Rest in Peace all the time after sideboard, often times people go down to 5 just to find one thinking it will win the game when in reality having a graveyard is not really all that important. Against creature heavy decks they typically use Rest in Peace which just ensures your Living End's will just be Wraths (which is often good enough). My game plan typically when I see one of these problem enchantments is to just beat opponents with overwhelming card advantage through As Foretold/Ancestral Visions. Then I'll just cast the creatures w/ As Foretold and win that way or wait to have complete control of the game to remove the enchantment. No need to exhaust all your resources in removing the graveyard hate.
Countering your own Living End actually comes up. Against Arcbound Ravager or other sac outlets Living End can be pretty bad. A play that has won me a few games is to cast it then once the opponent sacs all or most of his creatures you just counter it thus basically just turning it into a Wrath of God. This play is probably hard to pull off in paper magic without giving away your plan due to how priority works.
Due to the number of cyclers you play knowing when to mulligan is hard and a bit more random than most decks. That's just a fact of life and there's no getting around it. Typically I try to go a little aggressive and if my hand is great but light on lands I hope for the best with my cycles.
Corollary: Ancestral Visions is a amazing card to draw when mulliganing. So I also mulligan fairly aggressively too if my hand isn't showing cards that are needed to win.
Just suspending Visions on turn 1 is often the right play even if you have As Foretold. It's almost always the right play against slower decks and control. Even later in the game I'm not afraid to suspend if I don't have As Foretold and I think there's even a passable chance of staying alive 4 turns.
Game 1 do not cycle Street Wraith until you know what they are playing (doing so against a very aggressive strategy can be wrong).
If you have an As Foretold in hand and another on 3+. Play the As Foretold in hand (for free) then use the newly played one to cast your 0cmc spell (although beware of Detention Sphere and Maelstrom Pulse)
Nimble Obstructionist is great. I currently have 1 in the main deck and 1 sideboard could see adding 1 more md against the right meta-game (tron heavy, chalice heavy decks). There are so many interactions with it and it is often game-winning. Many opponents just do not consider it as a possibility. It's also amazing to just play at end of turn or to block affinity creatures.
Things that I've countered with Nimble Obstructionist:
Oblivion Stone
Chalice of the Void
Spell Queller trigger
Snapcaster Mage trigger
Rest in Peace (CIP trigger) - will allow you to keep what's in your gy there
Sac Lands
TKS
Grapeshot Storm Trigger
Relic Activated Ability
Aether Vial
Liliana Ultimate (or any Planeswalker ability)
Primeval Titan
Valakut (to stay alive and attack for win next turn)
Eidolon of the Great Revel
Arcbound Ravager
My current list...
10 Island
2 River of Tears
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Field of Ruin
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Tolaria West
4 Ancestral Visions
4 Living End
4 Remand
2 Spell Pierce
1 Search for Azcarta
4 As Foretold
1 Nimble Obstructionist
4 Cryptic Command
4 Curator of Mysteries
4 Striped Riverwinder
3 Architects of Will
3 Street Wraith
SB:
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Dismember
2 Collective Brutality
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Dispel
1 Nimble Obstructionist
1 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Engineered Explosives
Sideboard cards I've tested:
Chalice of the Void
Vapor Snag
More Leyline of Sanctities
Tormod's Crypt
Couple questions:
How has Search for Azcanta worked for you? I'm dying to put that card everywhere, but haven't tried it here yet, haha.
Are you ok with the permission you're running? Do you find yourself wishing you had more?
I see you tried Chalice, didn't it work for you? I tried it in place of the Leylines of Sanctity, but ended up going back to the leylines, I don't like leylines overall, but they're just too good against discard/burn.
Same with Tormod's crypt, what didn't you like? I prefer it over leylines of the void, since I refuse to spend 8 sideboard slots in leylines.
Since I see Vapor Snag there, have you considered Echoing truth? I like the flexibility it has, and some more bounce for things that got through the countermagic has been very helpful.
Permission seems about right. 1 mana counters are very important in allowing you a) to live long enough to win the game by either living end or just getting tons of card and b) allows us to force a turn 4 As Foretold w/ counter backup against decks that run counters. Unless there additional 1 mana permission spells I'm missing that helps against creatures... (maybe I should try spell snare again).
Chalice just never really got used. The decks it is best against you're either so far ahead it's unnecessary (i.e. Lantern, 8-rack) or so far behind (burn) that playing it on turn 4 (realistically after searching with Tolaria West just wouldn't help.
Tormod's crypt was decent but running it with 4 leylines of the void seemed too much. Against decks where you really need the effect immediately (i.e dredge, goryo's vengeance, etc.) leyline is just far superior.
I've been pretty happy w/ mixing up the mana base to allow for some collective brutalities sideboard. This really helped the burn matchup and thus allowed me to go down to 1 leyline of the sanctity sideboard. I found that when I ran 4 of the sanctities it was hard to put them all in without diluting your deck too much. Burn is actually a 50/50 to positive matchup now w/ the sideboard I'm running.
I haven't tried echoing truth. Vapor snag was weak and I tried it to improve the matchups against fast decks with creatures (namely humans, burn, affinity, infect, hollow-one.dec). It wasn't very good at this purpose and I doubt echoing truth would be much better. I'm not really interested or needing the added flexibility of bouncing other permanents (although chalice can be a real pain but you already have recall, nimble obstructionist, explosives, cryptic which all can help with that) although the copy effect seems pretty useful vs. storm, especially if you opt to run more Leyline of the Sanctity to shutdown grapeshot.
I did try Spontaneous Mutation. That was what led me to Vapor Snag. I found the mutation to be not impactful enough in the matchups where you really need fast creature disruption. It doesn't do anything to some of the most troublesome creatures (i.e. Thalia, Meddling Mage, and Kitesail Freebooter) and you rarely have enough cards in your graveyard to prevent Goblin Guide from getting in a 4 points of damage or so. Honestly, a card that I haven't tested yet that may work well out of the board is Gigadrowse. It does just about everything that Spontaneous Mutation does while also being very useful later in the game to give you additional turns. It also happens to be just about the best card against pure control decks.
@YellowMimic:
Thanks
Has anybody given that a try?
Also, I'm liking the idea of 1 Tormod's Crypt more and more, Bojuka's inability to trigger at instant speed has been a problem a couple of times.
Faerie Macabre has been great, not as much for clearing creatures or Snap targets in their yard as planned but for saving my Living End or Visions from Surgical Extraction, haha.
I'm surprised every day by the number of lines available in the deck, I keep coming up with potential plays and discovering punts in my play (or at least sub optimal plays).
Drift of Phantasms is great. Even if you already have an As Foretold, you can use it to grab Supreme Will or Disallow if you're running them. And the Crucible from the sideboard is also not a bad option either.
I definitely like Tormod's Crypt as graveyard hate for this deck. It costing 0 lets you tutor it up with a Tolaria West, and having it just sit there until your opponent makes you use it can cause your opponent to make mistakes.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Long time lurker here, first time poster. I have been playing the following deck for a while now and have been having great results.
Not really bringing anything new to the table that was said here but the deck has gone through a number of iterations and this is the one I have been sticking with for a while now. Let me know what you think!
1 notable thing I don't think I have seen before is that I tried Perplex. Unfortunately giving the opponent the ability to dump their hand in the yard wasn't what I wanted It was interesting to transmute for As Foretold and came in handy when playing vs control (as they didn't want to dumpt their hand)
4 Field of Ruin
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Darkslick Shores
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
6 Island
1 Swamp
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Sunken Ruins
4 Tolaria West
4 Curator of Mysteries
3 Street Wraith
4 Striped Riverwinder
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Cryptic Command
4 Living End
4 Remand
3 Mana Leak
1 Disallow
4 As Foretold
1 Search for Azcanta
1 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Collective Brutality
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Nimble Obstructionist
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Faerie Maccabre
4 Curator of Mysteries
1 Nimble Obstructionist
3 Street Wraith
4 Striped Riverwinder
Spells
4 Ancestral Vision
4 As Foretold
4 Cryptic Command
4 Living End
3 Path to Exile
4 Remand
1 Spell Pierce
3 Spell Snare
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Field of Ruin
4 Flooded Strand
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
1 Plains
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Snow-Covered Island
3 Tolaria West
2 Condemn
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Dispel
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Pact of Negation
1 Path to Exile
2 Stony Silence
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormod's Crypt
Pact of negation seems like decent tech (I've been itching for a free spell in this deck!) although maybe disrupting shoal/Commandeer might have a little traction as well.
Can we talk sideboards and general deck construction? I feel like we're nowhere near reaching an "optimal" or even commonly accepted stock version of the deck. Sideboards particularly are all over the place!
I feel like leyline of the void is almost essential at this point? I've been bringing it in against decks which out-synergy or out-gun my board even after a resolved living end, and it's seemed decent so far. How do we beat decks like merfolk and midrange heavy-hitters who are able to hold creatures back while still putting pressure on our life total, so that a resolved living end has less impact.
Also I'm seeing a lot of variance in the number of cyclers people are running. Even with 14 I'm finding that occasionally I just don't draw enough (one or two usually isn't enough to close out a game)
I put the deck together because there's some seriously powerful interactions at work here, but this is such a diamond in the rough right now, no finesse or proper detail yet. We need to focus on refinement and nailing down things like the correct sideboard strategies. At the moment I just see people jamming random powerful hate-cards in there and sure sometimes it'll work but there's more to sideboarding in modern than just jamming stony silence and stuff (good as they are).
Personally I feel like hurkyll's recall needs to be a consideration for sideboard. Engineered explosives. Stony silence, path/push, ghostly prison, erm. Collective brutality, liliana? Some kind of persistent cheap advantage engine like new or old liliana could genuinely be an option out of the sideboard. Gideon of the trials! I don't know guys i'm spitballing.
I come from Taking Turns, that's my jam. I know the deck inside out; hell I did the primer. I wonder if there's anything 'portable' from there into this strategy. Gigadrowse I've heard mentioned and it's a powerful card in the right circumstances. Exhaustion is another, although less of a neat fit maybe? Hard to say really.
Lol guys help me out this deck has all the hallmarks of a real powerful contender in modern but for real it needs refining. 0_0
I feel like the sideboard will always be the toughest thing to standarize since Modern has so many different decks and strategies.
Leylines will have their detractors and supporters, I particularly don't like them much since they take too much space or are very unreliable otherwise.
Engineered Explosives, Tormod's Crypt have been great for me. I like Torpor Orb a lot, specially against humans where it's amazing, but also Jeskai for spell quellers/snaps, and other creatures like rec sage, TKS, etc...
Nimble Obstructionist is another pretty standard sideboard card, I've yet to try Archfiend of Ifnir, I think most people who did have given up on him though.
I love Faerie Macabre, it enables a ton of tricks and it is another flying body we can get back.
Collective Brutality is just awesome against burn, I think it deserves some spots but haven't tried it yet.
Here is my current decklist and the huge "Maybeboard" of cards that could be interesting to try, in case it's useful. I'm on Ub, haven't considered UW really.
Maindeck wise, I think we have consensus (or close to) on:
4 As Foretold
4 Living End
4 Ancestral Visions
4 Cryptic Command
4 Remand
4 Curator of Mysteries
4 Striped Riverwinder
Almost always:
3 Street Wraith (4 or 2 in some lists, 3 is the most common I saw)
4 Tolaria West (3 for sure, most lists play 4)
1 Bojuka Bog
21-22 Lands, with around 4 Field of Ruin/Ghost Quarter total
Architects of Will and Nimble Obstrucionist are usually there as well rounding up the number of cyclers to around 14. I agree that going lower is risky, I've also suffered finding them several times.
On the flex spots (around 5/6) extra permission is one alternative, some removal another one, Search for Azcanta seems interesting, some more cyclers can work, and other more original alternatives.
I feel we're not that bad on the maindeck, the sideboard is where most work is needed and it can be tough since the deck has so many potential plays that the interactions with sideboard cards open up a ton of possibilities.
Sidisi's Faithful is an option. Buys time versus small creature decks, and can bounce Gurmag Angler while avoiding Stubborn Denial. Then it comes back post-Living End to bounce any opposing creatures that also came back.
Considering that Burn and GDS are both bad matchups, it may be worth trying, even if it appears to be a weak card. Wall of Omens saw play in UW Control for quite a while, so the 0/4 body may be more useful than it seems at first.
I am aware that you cast Living End off As Foretold...its the whole point of the thread... but Quartz is running black mana sources and no black sideboard cards. So if it is just to hard cast Architects then it seems less important to run black sources.