Hi there, in my constant search for cards, with which I can build some decks no one plays at the moment I stumbled upon the good old Underworld dreams and wondered if this may be built around and made a "competitive" deck.
As the title says I wonder if there are enough tools to make this work in modern and also to make it win games, at best in a competitive level.
So to more reliably get Underworld Dreams to play we need to look for Tutor's or similar effects and I found: Fate Unraveler (Underworld Dreams on a good body for 1 more mana and 3B instead of BBB Kederekt Parasite (on a body for B but you need a red permanent to enable the damage from drawing) Spiteful visions (it hurts us as well, but everyone draws an additional card)
We also lack tools like Dark ritual or Cabal Ritual to play Underworld dreams T1 or T2
since we need colored mana I thought about things like Coldsteel heart and Pentad prism, which also help to enable metalcraft for Molten Psyche since most of the cards are a bit mana intensive some ramp could be usefull.
Also most of the cards are sorcery speed so counter is good against us and Defense Grid (adding to metalcraft as well) comes to mind also with discard spells like Thoughtseize, Duress, Inquisition of Kozilek
so I think to put in in a control shell for the early game and slowly winning with Underworld dreams afterwards.
Also with much spells which let players discard, Liliana's Caress comes to mind and also devotion is a thing so Gray Merchant of Asphodel may be good here along with Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
What do you think?
Edit: forgot some card tags, added now
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"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Underworld Dreams, Skullcage, and Seizan, Perverter of Truth was all it needed at the time.
These days you can probably add Master of the Feast and Fate Unraveler. Spellskite to block early and protect your stuff.
Underworld Dreams doesn't do much... Other than kill them... That's something, but the clock it represents isn't exactly the most ferocious clock ever. To compensate I'd look to put this into a 2 of in maybe turbo smog. (I'll do a thread if you need assistance.) Or just in a control shell that wants to put out an early dreams or two then use nythos and damn pack.
Ive been brewing a taking turns deck that uses underworld dreams as its win con. It's still rough but it's coming together.
Here's where I'm currently at.
I haven't tried kami yet, or master of the feast, feast I'm really interested in, I'll try it.
Skullcage is an option but I liked unraveler better since it can swing.
That list looks like it has too many Underworld Dreams. Drawing 2 or 3 early game can be very bad in modern. You can't afford to stumble. For that reason I'd never suggest playing more than 3. 2 is probably the correct number in all honesty.
You have to be ready. Consider taking turns a control deck when considering the number of win conditions. Yes it's combo, but the way it's played you don't need many win cons since you draw so much and getting your lock is much more critical than playing underworld dreams.
Underworld Dreams doesn't do much... Other than kill them... That's something, but the clock it represents isn't exactly the most ferocious clock ever. To compensate I'd look to put this into a 2 of in maybe turbo smog. (I'll do a thread if you need assistance.) Or just in a control shell that wants to put out an early dreams or two then use nythos and damn pack.
Yeah, I played this card waaaay back in the day and the clock is super slow. Worst case scenario is... well... it goes without explaining.
Damnable Pact. A pretty good win con if you have a good amount of devotion to Black and 1 or 2 Underworld Dreams in play. With just 2 dreams in play you are effectively hitting them for 12 damage. With just Nythos and the Mana to activate it. Also it doesn't suck early game to draw you 3 or 4 cards from a stagnant board state. That deck can also run Devotion priest for more life syphon.
@SavannahLion
Yeah I also realized it not long ago and thought it would be nice and unique as a modern deck.
@Gentius
Did you test your List yet? Day's undoing seems very nice here, but I don't think I would play the Mines because they help your enemy to find something against the dreams, because it gets hit by Decay for example. Master of the feast and also Teferi's Puzzle Box is a bit different, Master of the Feast also brings a good body with evasion and is a threat itself, and Puzzlebox has the potential to deal a lot of damage with Underworld Dreams and / or Fate Unraveler and also is in curve.
I've played my list a few times and it's slow but it can get there, as with any turns deck it's tough against any fast decks. I've also been trying dark deal in replacement of days since days ends the turn and voids dreams ability.
Basically there is a UR version running wheel of fate that I'm trying to run similar but with UB instead.
Biggest problem I have is making them draw enough cards to kill them without fizzling. A single dreams or unraveler isn't enough without snapcaster beats.
I could see getting rid of unraveler though as its sat in my hand many times and never got played.
In that last list I don't like unraveler, puzzle box, or master's. Feels like you are trying too much on the wincon, this should be viewed as a control deck with just a few wincons. I'd suggest more damnation, and IoK in those spots. Some bridges to lock the opponent out while they drown in their card draw phase would be funny.
Hello everyone!
What about a more solid addition of the white color, to gain access to some neat supportive cards, like pte as a removal, Leyline in sideboard (and ench/artifact removal as well)... But more importantly implement Rule of Law and Eidolon of Rethoric? this way you make sure opponent will draw more than he can play. Ebony Owl Netsuke is a cheap, evasive beater, and Master of the Feast synergize well with it.
Have not tested yet, is just a theorycraft, but I would like to know your thoughts about this list:
Hi there, yeah I necro the thread now, because I have the opinion, that Underworld Dreams has potential at the moment.
With cards like Fate Unraveler and Ob Nixilis, the hate-twisted you have underworld dreams 5-12 with some benefits.
I will show you the list and I would be happy to get some feedback.
I just threw some cards on mtgo together and it is more budgetish atm.
Imo Monoblack has some very good tools to make the deck work. Also Narset+Puzzlebox lock is not problematic if you land an Underworld dreams effect before the lock. Karn lock has the same "problem" with the deck, if you land UD+Puzzlebox you can sit there and hope to kill them before they do =)
There are maybe some odd choices but let me explain some of them and what I thought when I included them.
Relic of Progenitus: This is mainly for dredge decks. Because we need them to draw cards to deal dmg we need to make sure they can't replace their draws with dredging so they get dmg at all.
Master of the Feast: he has double purpose here. He is a good threat which comes down early and forces opponents to draw.
Seizan, Perverter of truth: Well another beater and forces to draw cards, while also supporting our draws.
So what do you think?
Please remember, the list here is somewhat budget. If it wasn't budget there would be some cards which would be replaced immediately. For example Leyline of the Void instead of Relic, or Thoughtseize instead of Duress
But feel free to suggest cards for a non budget list!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Well bridge has some serious potential against creature heavy decks. Puzzlebox is so damn good and also seizan is a powerhouse.
Well relic is mainly for dredge and helps a lot i can say for sure.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
But you are creature heavy too, you have 9 (and with high power). Why not a board wipe instead? (Languish or yahenni expertise)?
I suppose dredge is very present in your meta then
In my version I can play neither seizan nor teferi puzzle box because spiteful visions makes the draw damage symmetrical. So the draw can only be "target player"
Yeah i have boardwipes in the board, maybe that is correct to switch bridge out.
Yeah i had a version with red splash and visions but i didn't like it.
Actually i have no meta, because i only play on mtgo. So i could replace relic with more interaction like more discard for example.
Ob nixilis and fate unraveler only punish the opponent so seizan is a powerhouse in my opinion
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
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As the title says I wonder if there are enough tools to make this work in modern and also to make it win games, at best in a competitive level.
So to more reliably get Underworld Dreams to play we need to look for Tutor's or similar effects and I found:
Fate Unraveler (Underworld Dreams on a good body for 1 more mana and 3B instead of BBB
Kederekt Parasite (on a body for B but you need a red permanent to enable the damage from drawing)
Spiteful visions (it hurts us as well, but everyone draws an additional card)
All the old nice cards to combo with like Memory Jar, Windfall, Wheel and Deal, Winds of Change, Wheel of Fortune are not in the modern cardpool, so I brainstormed about other cards and found some.
We also lack tools like Dark ritual or Cabal Ritual to play Underworld dreams T1 or T2
since we need colored mana I thought about things like Coldsteel heart and Pentad prism, which also help to enable metalcraft for Molten Psyche since most of the cards are a bit mana intensive some ramp could be usefull.
Also most of the cards are sorcery speed so counter is good against us and Defense Grid (adding to metalcraft as well) comes to mind also with discard spells like Thoughtseize, Duress, Inquisition of Kozilek
so I think to put in in a control shell for the early game and slowly winning with Underworld dreams afterwards.
Also with much spells which let players discard, Liliana's Caress comes to mind and also devotion is a thing so Gray Merchant of Asphodel may be good here along with Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
What do you think?
Edit: forgot some card tags, added now
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Underworld Dreams, Skullcage, and Seizan, Perverter of Truth was all it needed at the time.
These days you can probably add Master of the Feast and Fate Unraveler. Spellskite to block early and protect your stuff.
I would add blue instead of red. Counterspells. Kami of the Crescent Moon, Clutch of the Undercity.
Here's where I'm currently at.
2 fate unraveler
4 howling mine
2 Jace beleren
4 day's undoing
4 ancestral vision
1 as foretold
4 time warp
4 temporal mastery
2 walk the aeons
4 fatal push
2 snapcaster mage
4 polluted delta
4 watery grave
1 mikokoro, center of the sea
5 swamp
5 island
I haven't tried kami yet, or master of the feast, feast I'm really interested in, I'll try it.
Skullcage is an option but I liked unraveler better since it can swing.
You have to be ready. Consider taking turns a control deck when considering the number of win conditions. Yes it's combo, but the way it's played you don't need many win cons since you draw so much and getting your lock is much more critical than playing underworld dreams.
Yeah, I played this card waaaay back in the day and the clock is super slow. Worst case scenario is... well... it goes without explaining.
Also.... what is a "damn pack"?
Yeah I also realized it not long ago and thought it would be nice and unique as a modern deck.
@Gentius
Did you test your List yet? Day's undoing seems very nice here, but I don't think I would play the Mines because they help your enemy to find something against the dreams, because it gets hit by Decay for example. Master of the feast and also Teferi's Puzzle Box is a bit different, Master of the Feast also brings a good body with evasion and is a threat itself, and Puzzlebox has the potential to deal a lot of damage with Underworld Dreams and / or Fate Unraveler and also is in curve.
Maybe a list of mine would look like this:
As you see there are free and questionable spots but I am unsure which one need to stay or what is better. I considered a white splash for mor removal with Path to Exile and the best sideboard options you can get in modern. It also adds Anguished Unmaking to deal with any problem permanent. Stony Silence, Rest in Peace, Leyline of Sanctity, Rule of Law / Kambal, Consul of Allocation to fight most tier decks.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Basically there is a UR version running wheel of fate that I'm trying to run similar but with UB instead.
Biggest problem I have is making them draw enough cards to kill them without fizzling. A single dreams or unraveler isn't enough without snapcaster beats.
I could see getting rid of unraveler though as its sat in my hand many times and never got played.
What about a more solid addition of the white color, to gain access to some neat supportive cards, like pte as a removal, Leyline in sideboard (and ench/artifact removal as well)... But more importantly implement Rule of Law and Eidolon of Rethoric? this way you make sure opponent will draw more than he can play. Ebony Owl Netsuke is a cheap, evasive beater, and Master of the Feast synergize well with it.
Have not tested yet, is just a theorycraft, but I would like to know your thoughts about this list:
4 Path to Exile
TWO DROPS
3 Ebony Owl Netsuke
2 Howling mine
4 Cast down
2 Peace of mind
2 Damnable pact
4 Master of the feast
4 Rule of Law
2 Eidolon of Rhetoric
3 Underworld Dreams
FOUR DROPS
4 Spiteful Visions
2 Wrath of God
6 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Geier Reach Sanitarium
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Caves of Koilos (or fetchlands)
This is the rough idea, mind that
With cards like Fate Unraveler and Ob Nixilis, the hate-twisted you have underworld dreams 5-12 with some benefits.
I will show you the list and I would be happy to get some feedback.
I just threw some cards on mtgo together and it is more budgetish atm.
4x Fate Unraveler
4x Teferi's Puzzle Box
3x Ob Nixilis, the Hate-Twisted
2x Seizan, Perverter of Truth
3x Master of the Feast
3x Damnable Pact
4x Duress
4x Fatal Push
3x Relic of Progenitus
4x Sign in Blood
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Hero's Downfall
3x Nykthos, Shrine to nyx
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Polluted Delta
14x Swamp
Imo Monoblack has some very good tools to make the deck work. Also Narset+Puzzlebox lock is not problematic if you land an Underworld dreams effect before the lock. Karn lock has the same "problem" with the deck, if you land UD+Puzzlebox you can sit there and hope to kill them before they do =)
There are maybe some odd choices but let me explain some of them and what I thought when I included them.
Relic of Progenitus: This is mainly for dredge decks. Because we need them to draw cards to deal dmg we need to make sure they can't replace their draws with dredging so they get dmg at all.
Master of the Feast: he has double purpose here. He is a good threat which comes down early and forces opponents to draw.
Seizan, Perverter of truth: Well another beater and forces to draw cards, while also supporting our draws.
So what do you think?
Please remember, the list here is somewhat budget. If it wasn't budget there would be some cards which would be replaced immediately. For example Leyline of the Void instead of Relic, or Thoughtseize instead of Duress
But feel free to suggest cards for a non budget list!
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Also Relic of Progenitus looks like a sideboard card to me
Personally, I went for a Br flavor because of Kederekt Parasite
3 Fate Unraveler
4 Kederekt Parasite
4 Master of the Feast
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Lands (20)
2 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
14 Swamp
2 Lavaclaw Reaches
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Damnable Pact
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Sign in Blood
Enchantments (8)
2 Blood Moon
3 Spiteful Visions
3 Underworld Dreams
3 Ob Nixilis, the Hate-Twisted
Artifacts (4)
4 Veinfire Borderpost
I have been trying it out online to some moderate success. Kederekt Parasite and Simian Spirit Guide make the deck quite faster
Well relic is mainly for dredge and helps a lot i can say for sure.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
I suppose dredge is very present in your meta then
In my version I can play neither seizan nor teferi puzzle box because spiteful visions makes the draw damage symmetrical. So the draw can only be "target player"
Yeah i had a version with red splash and visions but i didn't like it.
Actually i have no meta, because i only play on mtgo. So i could replace relic with more interaction like more discard for example.
Ob nixilis and fate unraveler only punish the opponent so seizan is a powerhouse in my opinion
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy